Proto-Hungarian man best fit

[Blondie]

All of the Magyar samples are Asiatic on various degrees.

Its also true for any other east european population.

[Universe]

In fact, even the very early Arpads look a lot like Modern day Hungarians.

Ladislaus I of Hungary (St. Laszlo), GEDmatch# KJ9269628.

Saint Ladislas, was King of Hungary from 1077 and King of Croatia from 1091. He was the second son of King Béla I of Hungary and Richeza (or Adelaide) of Poland. After Béla's death in 1063, Ladislaus and his elder brother, Géza, acknowledged their cousin Solomon as the lawful king in exchange for receiving their father's former duchy, which included one-third of the kingdom. They cooperated with Solomon for the next decade. Ladislaus's most popular legend, which narrates his fight with a "Cuman" (a Turkic nomad marauder) who abducted a Hungarian girl, is connected to this period. The brothers' relationship with Solomon deteriorated in the early 1070s, and they rebelled against him. Géza was proclaimed king in 1074, but Solomon maintained control of the western regions of his kingdom. During Géza's reign, Ladislaus was his brother's most influential adviser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladislaus_I_of_Hungary


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.85
2 North_Atlantic 26.85
3 West_Med 11.71
4 West_Asian 11.35
5 Siberian 5.78
6 East_Med 4.96
7 South_Asian 2.3
8 Amerindian 1.03
9 Oceanian 0.92
10 Sub-Saharan 0.92
11 East_Asian 0.6
12 Red_Sea 0.55
13 Northeast_African 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 7.8
2 Croatian 8.55
3 Hungarian 9.27
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.06
5 South_Polish 11.13
6 Ukrainian 11.61
7 East_German 12.16
8 Austrian 12.42
9 Serbian 12.64
10 Tatar 13.75
11 Polish 14.09
12 Southwest_Russian 14.33
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.43
14 Romanian 15.51
15 Kargopol_Russian 15.58
16 Russian_Smolensk 15.91
17 Estonian_Polish 16.67
18 Southwest_Finnish 16.99
19 Belorussian 17.33
20 Erzya 17.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.8% Austrian + 47.2% Tatar @ 3.74
2 53.3% East_German + 46.7% Tatar @ 3.78
3 61.1% Hungarian + 38.9% Tatar @ 3.98
4 75.9% South_Polish + 24.1% Nogay @ 4.56
5 64.3% Croatian + 35.7% Tatar @ 4.61
6 77.8% South_Polish + 22.2% Afghan_Turkmen @ 4.64
7 65.8% Austrian + 34.2% Chuvash @ 4.88
8 87.2% Croatian + 12.8% Shors @ 4.98
9 78.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 21.5% Nogay @ 5.01
10 68.2% Moldavian + 31.8% Tatar @ 5.02
11 73.8% Hungarian + 26.2% Chuvash @ 5.03
12 80.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 19.7% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.09
13 83.9% Croatian + 16.1% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.2
14 80.5% South_Polish + 19.5% Aghan_Hazara @ 5.23
15 88.3% Croatian + 11.7% Hakas @ 5.23
16 78.3% Hungarian + 21.7% Mari @ 5.29
17 70.9% Polish + 29.1% Nogay @ 5.35
18 89.6% Croatian + 10.4% Altaian @ 5.37
19 80.1% South_Polish + 19.9% Afghan_Tadjik @ 5.39
20 87.5% Croatian + 12.5% Kazakh @ 5.39

K15

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 23.8
2 Baltic 17.54
3 Eastern_Euro 15.31
4 Atlantic 12.45
5 West_Asian 9.82
6 West_Med 8.57
7 Siberian 4.85
8 South_Asian 2.26
9 East_Med 1.9
10 Sub-Saharan 0.91
11 Amerindian 0.89
12 Oceanian 0.77
13 Red_Sea 0.56
14 Southeast_Asian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 9.05
2 Hungarian 9.21
3 Croatian 10.69
4 East_German 11.07
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.1
6 Ukrainian 11.67
7 South_Polish 11.97
8 Austrian 12.47
9 Finnish 12.48
10 Serbian 12.78
11 East_Finnish 13.33
12 Southwest_Finnish 13.39
13 Polish 14.31
14 Romanian 15.14
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.28
16 Kargopol_Russian 15.33
17 Tatar 15.49
18 Southwest_Russian 15.49
19 Russian_Smolensk 15.77
20 North_Swedish 16.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.2% Hungarian + 33.8% Tatar @ 5.5
2 60.4% East_German + 39.6% Tatar @ 5.78
3 77.9% Finnish + 22.1% Balkar @ 6.09
4 79.3% Finnish + 20.7% Ossetian @ 6.18
5 76.6% Finnish + 23.4% Kumyk @ 6.23
6 82.3% Finnish + 17.7% Abhkasian @ 6.28
7 81.3% Finnish + 18.7% Georgian @ 6.28
8 77.6% Finnish + 22.4% Kabardin @ 6.34
9 79.8% Hungarian + 20.2% Chuvash @ 6.46
10 78.6% East_German + 21.4% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.46
11 83.2% Hungarian + 16.8% Mari @ 6.47
12 79% Finnish + 21% Adygei @ 6.47
13 88% Hungarian + 12% Shors @ 6.47
14 83.5% Hungarian + 16.5% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.53
15 52.4% Tatar + 47.6% West_German @ 6.55
16 79.6% Finnish + 20.4% North_Ossetian @ 6.58
17 77.9% Finnish + 22.1% Chechen @ 6.63
18 89% Hungarian + 11% Hakas @ 6.66
19 91% Hungarian + 9% Selkup @ 6.71
20 90.8% Hungarian + 9.2% Ket @ 6.75


Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 44.16
2 Atlantic_Med 23.19
3 Caucasus 13.83
4 Gedrosia 8.38
5 Siberian 5.35
6 South_Asian 1.71
7 Southwest_Asian 1.45
8 East_Asian 1.02
9 Sub_Saharan 0.73
10 Northwest_African 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 8.82
2 German (Dodecad) 12.2
3 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 16.99
4 Romanians (Behar) 17.23
5 Dutch (Dodecad) 18.06
6 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 18.89
7 Swedish (Dodecad) 19.31
8 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 19.49
9 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 20
10 Polish (Dodecad) 20
11 Norwegian (Dodecad) 20.31
12 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 20.48
13 English (Dodecad) 20.7
14 Kent (1000Genomes) 20.7
15 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 21.14
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 21.75
17 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 21.83
18 Argyll (1000Genomes) 21.93
19 French (Dodecad) 21.96
20 French (HGDP) 22.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.9% Swedish (Dodecad) + 34.1% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 3.89
2 64.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 35.2% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 4.57
3 85.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.8% Uzbeks (Behar) @ 5.03
4 84.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.8% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 5.04
5 89.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.3% Altai (Rasmussen) @ 5.06
6 90.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.6% Selkup (Rasmussen) @ 5.09
7 90.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.1% Ket (Rasmussen) @ 5.1
8 87.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 12.3% Hazara (HGDP) @ 5.18
9 92.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.2% Yakut (HGDP) @ 5.24
10 91.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.8% Tuva (Rasmussen) @ 5.3
11 88.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.6% Burusho (HGDP) @ 5.31
12 93.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 6.7% Evenk (Rasmussen) @ 5.33
13 93% Hungarians (Behar) + 7% Yukagir (Rasmussen) @ 5.35
14 92.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.6% Dolgan (Rasmussen) @ 5.35
15 69.7% Swedish (Dodecad) + 30.3% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 5.43
16 94.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.7% Nganassan (Rasmussen) @ 5.58
17 56% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) + 44% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 5.62
18 91.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.2% Buryat (Rasmussen) @ 5.62
19 77.1% German (Dodecad) + 22.9% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 5.63
20 88.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.5% Pathan (HGDP) @ 5.64


Dodecad V3 Oracle results:
The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_European 37.46
2 East_European 21.41
3 Mediterranean 18.03
4 West_Asian 11.84
5 Northeast_Asian 4.86
6 South_Asian 2.53
7 Southeast_Asian 1.44
8 Southwest_Asian 1.43
9 Neo_African 0.61
10 Palaeo_African 0.36
11 Northwest_African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Slovenian (Xing) 7.94
2 Hungarians (Behar) 10.11
3 German (Dodecad) 16.49
4 Balkans (Dodecad) 18.39
5 N._European (Xing) 19.47
6 CEU (HapMap) 20.01
7 Argyll (1000 Genomes) 20.24
8 Romanians_14 (Behar) 20.54
9 Orcadian (HGDP) 21.4
10 Orkney (1000 Genomes) 21.57
11 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 22.38
12 FIN (1000Genomes) 22.69
13 Polish (Dodecad) 23.11
14 Tuscan (Xing) 25.81
15 Finnish (Dodecad) 25.85
16 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 25.89
17 French (Dodecad) 26.07
18 French (HGDP) 26.11
19 Tuscan (Henn) 26.29
20 TSI (HapMap) 26.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86% Slovenian (Xing) + 14% Uzbeks (Behar) @ 4.31
2 64.9% FIN (1000Genomes) + 35.1% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.39
3 90% Slovenian (Xing) + 10% Selkup (Rasmussen) @ 4.41
4 68.9% FIN (1000Genomes) + 31.1% Cypriots (Behar) @ 4.62
5 91.2% Slovenian (Xing) + 8.8% Dolgan (Rasmussen) @ 4.65
6 90.2% Slovenian (Xing) + 9.8% Altai (Rasmussen) @ 4.66
7 92.5% Slovenian (Xing) + 7.5% Yakut (HGDP) @ 4.77
8 90.3% Slovenian (Xing) + 9.7% Yukagir (Rasmussen) @ 4.78
9 93% Slovenian (Xing) + 7% Evenk_15 (Rasmussen) @ 4.8
10 88.4% Slovenian (Xing) + 11.6% Uygur (HGDP) @ 4.82
11 88% Slovenian (Xing) + 12% Hazara (HGDP) @ 4.83
12 91.7% Slovenian (Xing) + 8.3% Tuva (Rasmussen) @ 4.86
13 89.8% Slovenian (Xing) + 10.2% Kyrgyzstani (Xing) @ 4.96
14 50% Tuscan (Xing) + 50% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 5.08
15 94.4% Slovenian (Xing) + 5.6% Nganassan_12 (Rasmussen) @ 5.08
16 92.4% Slovenian (Xing) + 7.6% Buryat (Rasmussen) @ 5.09
17 94.7% Slovenian (Xing) + 5.3% Chukchi_11 (Rasmussen) @ 5.1
18 94.9% Slovenian (Xing) + 5.1% Koryak_15 (Rasmussen) @ 5.16
19 57.6% Finnish (Dodecad) + 42.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 5.17
20 54.7% Finnish (Dodecad) + 45.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 5.26

Distances of 7, 8 and 9 are large, very large.

This is closer to reality:
52.8% Austrian + 47.2% Tatar @ 3.74
61.1% Hungarian + 38.9% Tatar @ 3.98

[oszkar07]

Distances of 7, 8 and 9 are large, very large.

This is closer to reality:
52.8% Austrian + 47.2% Tatar @ 3.74
61.1% Hungarian + 38.9% Tatar @ 3.98

Actually 7 is not very large on these type of Calculators, for example I have seen some outlier Hungarian members
of TA score as far out as 7 to the Hungarian average.

As a half Hungarian I score 6 on the K13 Hungarian average but I score 12 to Bristish average and Im half British.

So St Laszlo's scores are not really large for example a full western European would score something like 15 to 16 to Hungarian K13 average, which is not close at all but much closer than what a non European would score.

On Harrapaworld St Laszlo scores for Chuvash 18.59 and Hungarian 7.88.

He still clusters much closer to the typical populations that modern day Hungarians get than to other European Pops or to Turkic or Ugric Pops.
Yes he certainly has higher Turkic component as witnessed by the Oracle mixed mode however his single distances to Turkic or Ugric populations by single distance are not very close.

However if you look at his Population percentage breakdown overall he is not too Eastern, he still retains strong Eastern Central European averages pretty typical to Hungarians.
He is much more European overall based on the following averages.

I know his mother was Polish, but his Father must have also been fairly European to get the following result.

Lets not forget he is born of Hungarian Conqueror Royalty already in 1040 AD, still very early on in Hungarian European history post Honfoglalas.

Quite possible that Tatar sample is also partly Europid... I bet its close to 20% Europid.

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.85
2 North_Atlantic 26.85
3 West_Med 11.71
4 West_Asian 11.35
5 Siberian 5.78
6 East_Med 4.96
7 South_Asian 2.3
8 Amerindian 1.03
9 Oceanian 0.92
10 Sub-Saharan 0.92
11 East_Asian 0.6
12 Red_Sea 0.55
13 Northeast_African 0.19



puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_HG 36.67
2 Anatolian_NF 26.38
3 Caucasus_HG 22.56
4 Siberian 4.68
5 South_Asian 2.71
6 Near_East 2.61
7 Amerindian 1.36
8 Sub-Saharan 1.15
9 Oceanian 0.77
10 Beringian 0.77
11 East_Asian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 8.38
2 Hungarian 9.16
3 Dutch_South 10.04
4 Romanian 10.97
5 Czech 11.35
6 Dutch_North 11.55
7 German_North 12.02
8 English_South 12.2
9 Utahn_European 12.21
10 Bulgarian 12.26
11 Irish 12.48
12 Mordovian 12.58
13 Belgian 12.77
14 Scottish_West 13.03
15 German_South 13.1
16 Norwegian 14.35
17 Icelandic 15.52
18 Swedish 15.58
19 French 16.48
20 Belarusian 16.71

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.9% Mordovian + 30.1% Sicilian_East @ 3.76
2 74.4% Czech + 25.6% Uzbek @ 3.84

HarappaWorld Oracle results:
23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 45.36
2 Mediterranean 19.24
3 Caucasian 14.01
4 Baloch 9.96
5 Siberian 5.2
6 SW-Asian 1.59
7 S-Indian 1.53
8 Beringian 1.01
9 American 0.71
10 W-African 0.59
11 Papuan 0.27
12 Pygmy 0.27
13 NE-Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 hungarian (behar) 7.88
2 slovenian (xing) 8.47
3 ukranian (yunusbayev) 13.16
4 n-european (xing) 14.68
5 romanian-a (behar) 15.29
6 utahn-white (hapmap) 15.98
7 mordovian (yunusbayev) 16.25
8 utahn-white (1000genomes) 16.32
9 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 17.44
10 french (hgdp) 17.68
11 british (1000genomes) 18.04
12 chuvash (behar) 18.59
13 russian (behar) 18.85
14 belorussian (behar) 18.97
15 orcadian (hgdp) 19.3
16 russian (hgdp) 19.86
17 italian (hgdp) 24.77
18 lithuanian (behar) 26.25
19 spaniard (behar) 27.31
20 tuscan (hapmap) 27.72

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.7% hungarian (behar) + 11.3% selkup (rasmussen) @ 4.02
2 89.8% hungarian (behar) + 10.2% ket (rasmussen) @ 4.1
3 63.6% mordovian (yunusbayev) + 36.4% tuscan (hapmap) @ 4.29

(74.4% Czech + 25.6% Uzbek @ 3.84) He is at the very least 75% European if not more.
I think he is probably 85% to 90% European.

[dviz]

I said roughly. It was not one migration, but many smaller in longer period. First Vlachs probably came from Bulgaria to Wallachia around 1000. Later probably were new waves of the Vlach migrations from regions south of Danube. Until 13th century Vlach had enought time to assimilatted Slavs in Wallachia and became numerous and to start with migrations towards Transylvania. .

That's incorrect. By year 1000, Bulgarians (and Byzantines for that matter) were already calling the area north of Danube Wallachia, some 300 years before the formation of the state. It's also mentioned in the chronicles that Bulgarians nobles were taking Wallachian wifes from the territory of present day Oltenia.

Migrations happened both ways (South-North, North-South) but North of Danube there always a Romanophone population. In Southern Romania this is called Dridu culture (and had both Byzantine and Slavic traits). In Transylvania there are Jupiter temples that were active as late as 8th century, and often early Christian churches were built on top of their foundation (this is why some early Orthodox churches are not oriented East-West).

[Voskos]

Cromagnid with Asiatic influence.

[gixajo]

The autosomal DNA profile of Bela III falls within the genetic variation of present-day east European populations like Croatians and Hungarians. This is further supported through his mtDNA genome that belongs to hg H, the most common European maternal lineage. Furthermore, he was previously found to carry Y-chromosome hg R1a that can be traced back to Central Asia based on a more detailed phylogeographic reconstruction33. Based on the established genealogy (Figure S1), this Y-chromosome lineage provides a direct link between Bela III and his ancestor Árpád (845–907 AD), the Great Prince of the Hungarians who started the so-called Árpád Dynasty.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-98796-x

Another throne to which I can aspire. Hungarians, prepare to pay homage to your new king.

Balda IV, King of Visigothic Hispania, Hungary, Granada and "Almirante de la Mar Océana".

Hungaria, the Brazil of Europe

Great idea.

As king of Hungary I declare the Lambada as the Hungarian national dance.

[oszkar07]

[QUOTE=Blondie;7976461]

Actually avars had pretty different paternal origin. It was not so similar to conquerors. The early avars were almost completely mongoloid, unlike magyars who were mostly turanid, europid-mongoloid mixed. I dont see much similarity between avars and magyars, except the nomad culture. They were not same for sure.

Avars mixed with Slavs over time.
I read some articles where the DNA studies showed this also.
Also I have read there was more than one migration wave of Avars into Hungary, also there is suggestion they may not have been same folk that arrived in the first migration.

Some have suggested the 2nd migration wave was possibly Hungarian speakers misidentified as Avars.

The problem is we have very limited sources about Avar's.

i know thee has been quite a bit of genetic studies Avar graves in Hungary though im not sure if those studies have been compared to and correlated to studies of other Avar grave/genetic studies in other areas/countries.