Ashkenazi Jews are only 1/4 Israelite

[Sovanz]

So Ashkenazi Jews are imperial era Romans who converted to Judaism ��

To me Jews are white except those heavily armenoid influenced people.

[Paraksenos]

I don't think so. As I said, the "Rome_Imperial" average is heterogenous, it includes many individuals who are even 100% MENA. The "Rome_Imperial" average includes many MENA immigrants to Rome as well as many individuals with partial MENA ancestry.

We don't really know if the entire population of Italy was as MENA-shifted as the "Rome_Imperial" average.

The Imperial Roma samples have 2 homogenous clusters. 30% of the samples are homogenous Aegean and are identical to the homogenous Roman era West Anatolians from Mugla. They are genetic profile that existed since Hellenistic times in the Aegean and were already homogenous in the Roman era.

The other cluster clusters with South Italians and is a mix of Aegeans + Italic-Gaul related and possible single digit % of direct Levantine.


0.South.Greece/West.Anatolia(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla,0.108738 9,0.1527357,-0.0335888,-0.0700049,0.0004309,-0.0225901,0.0002193,-0.0049076,-0.0057949,0.0243225,0.0046767,0.0034469,-0.0066204,0.0031103,-0.0139793,-0.0054362,0.0047721,0.0004729,0.0040811,-0.0070116,-0.0044421,0.0023824,-0.0023993,0.0029722,0.0008222

These are the 2 clusters without the outliers

Italy_Central/South_Roman_Imperial_1-200AD(Greek_cluster),0.1088636,0.1526196,-0.0313278,-0.0678069,0.0010112,-0.0238849,0.0019639,-0.0049449,-0.0068223,0.0250445,0.0057764,0.0039501,-0.0067959,0.0023986,-0.0144834,-0.0044039,0.0062212,-0.0000815,0.0026039,-0.0056008,-0.0038235,0.0023759,-0.0034863,0.0024185,0.0004704
Italy_Central/South_Roman_Imperial(South_Italian_cluster),0.1127 723,0.1499078,-0.0114876,-0.0458908,0.0106765,-0.0152317,-0.0020427,-0.0055915,-0.0003776,0.0195413,0.0022858,0.0039542,-0.007959,-0.0043298,-0.0080389,-0.0016012,0.006439,0.0018516,0.0048442,-0.0047812,-0.0008542,0.00448,-0.0014315,-0.0020577,-0.0002672







Source pops for Jews:

0.South_Aegean_Greek(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla,0.1087389,0.1527357,-0.0335888,-0.0700049,0.0004309,-0.0225901,0.0002193,-0.0049076,-0.0057949,0.0243225,0.0046767,0.0034469,-0.0066204,0.0031103,-0.0139793,-0.0054362,0.0047721,0.0004729,0.0040811,-0.0070116,-0.0044421,0.0023824,-0.0023993,0.0029722,0.0008222

1.Italy_North_Roman_Imperial_proxy:French_Corsica,0.1203273,0.1518216,0.0195294,-0.0230022,0.0350394,-0.0100401,-0.0018464,-0.0005604,0.0157044,0.0337918,-0.0006031,0.0074612,-0.0132308,-0.0071074,-0.004537,-0.0005968,0.0040419,0.0012489,0.0024511,-0.0030461,-0.0003923,0.0002474,-0.0025793,-0.0013858,-0.0005303

4.Levant_Iron_Age-Roman-era:Israel_Iron_Age,0.0814974,0.1442052,-0.0603392,-0.0961896,-0.015326,-0.0372598,-0.005546,-0.0069228,0.0140302,0.013777,0.007535,-0.0062646,0.0189392,0.0040736,-0.0047774,0.0032084,-0.004407,0.0041806,0.0022374,0.00065,0.0014474,0.0051688,-0.0027606,-0.0024822,-0.0007664
 
4.Levant_Iron_Age-Roman-era:Levant_Beirut_ERoman-era,0.0822372,0.140397,-0.0554368,-0.091409,-0.0178492,-0.033118,-0.0042888,-0.0060572,0.0098685,0.0091575,0.0094592,-0.0100412,0.0174305,-0.0010665,-0.0100435,0.016872,0.0113432,-0.0047825,0.0008485,0.0014382,0.0050222,0.0055645,-0.0041905,0.003434,-0.0022455
 
9.Medieval_Turkic_Karakhanid.SG:DA204_noUDG.SG,0.073985,-0.156392,0.031301,0.013889,-0.052933,0,0.000235,0.003231,-0.014521,-0.017677,-0.014453,-0.003147,0.00223,-0.016377,0.009908,-0.000928,-0.01343,0.001267,0.004525,0.001,-0.014974,0.000742,-0.004067,-0.005663,-0.006586
 
8.North_Euro:Slavic:Polish,0.1318405,0.1292694,0.0698685,0.0577382,0.0406754,0.0217127,0.0086781,0.0108626,-0.0009329,-0.0185524,-0.0043488,-0.0064187,0.013093,0.0186295,-0.0070244,-0.0005595,0.0015455,-7.41e-05,0.0026948,0.0012872,-0.0031286,-0.0031185,0.0056063,-0.0033328,-8.76e-05
8.North_Euro:Slavic:Belarusian,0.1322625,0.1236239,0.0750219,0.0695957,0.0402331,0.0265691,0.0107321,0.0133226,-0.0002727,-0.0246017,-0.0026957,-0.0092119,0.0193259,0.0272309,-0.0112647,-0.0038009,-0.0009647,0.0003717,0.0041397,-0.0010504,-0.0042342,-0.0046081,0.0077235,-0.0068601,0.000694
 

9.North_African_TUN_Kerkouane_Iron_Age:R11759,-0.072847,0.142174,0.003017,-0.072352,0.032621,-0.039602,-0.033607,0.009923,0.090604,0.031345,0.011367,-0.012289,0.026164,-0.015689,0.025515,-0.017369,0.00013,-0.026985,-0.055559,0.007504,-0.013476,-0.045257,0.023294,-0.014098,0.012334

[rothaer]

In other words you have no source to support this claim. I asked you for source and you provided none.

Rather: In other words I don't at all make up such a claim.

[rothaer]

(...)

Btw. after we in this thread spoke of the Middle Ages, embarrassing conditions, Poles and Ashkenazi Jews, did you know of these from 12th and 13th century Poland?:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...ates_of_Poland

[#Oda#]

Btw. after we in this thread spoke of the Middle Ages, embarrassing conditions, Poles and Ashkenazi Jews, did you know of these from 12th and 13th century Poland?:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...ates_of_Poland

Please work on your syntax. It's painful, even for non-English ears.

[Eurafricanid]

I believe it's something like 40% on average.

They get real mad when you bring up how Palestinians are more native to the land than they are. They repeat the false claim from a book that even Israeli historians call garbage that was destroyed by Norman Finkelstein in the early 80s (I forget the name and author) that the land was without people except Bedouins and that Arabs starting arriving after Zionist Jews made the desert bloom because they wanted better wages, which is just an absurd claim.

The reality is what today is called Israel and Palestine was not devoid of population. The belief that the Romans deported all Jews and the land has been sitting there empty is laughable. Palestinians are predominately Jews who had converted to Christianity and Islam, while Ashkenazi, Sephardic, etc. are descended from Jews living in communities they had formed throughout the known world for trading purposes over centuries and Jews the Romans expelled from cities, such as Jerusalem, because it's in cities where the brains of a political opposition will be found.

Just don't forget the Arabs (including Egyptians and Levantines from other places) that migrated and mixed with the mostly converted Jews living in there, let's not forget that the Arabs aren't just coming straight from Arabia, so them looking more levantine genetically doesn't make them 100% local either, most Palestinians' results I see are very Egyptian.
It's a fact that the Palestinians average is very different from the Samaritan and more similar to the Levantine Muslim mutts.

[Jingle Bell]

Rome_Imperial is too heterogenous population to use it as one average. This population includes individuals who are 100% MENA.

I used just the samples in the "Central Med" cluster

[Dušan]

Don't North African Jews need an Imperial Roman proxy like Ashkenazis, Sephardics and Romaniotes do?

add this
0.South.Greece/West.Anatolia(Roman_era_1-200AD):Imperial_Rome(Mugla_profile)+Mugla,0.108738 9,0.1527357,-0.0335888,-0.0700049,0.0004309,-0.0225901,0.0002193,-0.0049076,-0.0057949,0.0243225,0.0046767,0.0034469,-0.0066204,0.0031103,-0.0139793,-0.0054362,0.0047721,0.0004729,0.0040811,-0.0070116,-0.0044421,0.0023824,-0.0023993,0.0029722,0.0008222

Arent North African Jews actually Sephardics who ended there after expulsion from Spain?


Anyway, this Imperial Roman you posted gives me quite good distance 2.0 in combination with Slavic samples.

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.0372% / 0.02037166
69.2 Slavic*(AD*540–1270)
30.8 South.Greece/West.Anatolia(Roman_era_1-200AD)

[Paraksenos]

Arent North African Jews actually Sephardics who ended there after expulsion from Spain?


Anyway, this Imperial Roman you posted gives me quite good distance 2.0 in combination with Slavic samples.

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.0372% / 0.02037166
69.2 Slavic*(AD*540–1270)
30.8 South.Greece/West.Anatolia(Roman_era_1-200AD)

Since you are a Serb you also need these

1.East_Balkans_Thracian_Iron_Age:BGR_IA,0.126344,0 .157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861

1.Albania_Cinamak_Iron_Age,0.1239044,0.1531999,0.0 288229,-0.0124586,0.0291481,-0.0053786,0.001175,0.0003956,-0.000292,0.0241073,0.0025981,0.0065729,-0.0183066,-0.0076479,-0.0091901,-0.0024623,0.0109894,0.0014116,0.0047407,-0.0086647,-0.005633,0.0017666,-0.0033629,0.006593,-0.0054743
1.Croatia_Iron_Age,0.1236404,0.1502982,0.0387492,0 .0012112,0.0370838,-0.0017779,0.0004994,0.001298,0.012885,0.0267432,-0.0022126,0.0079805,-0.0120787,-0.0053156,-0.0038511,-0.000232,0.001695,0.0025813,0.0030796,-0.0008911,-0.0022305,0.0031379,-0.0035125,-0.0016719,-0.0013321

[Dušan]

Since you are a Serb you also need these

1.East_Balkans_Thracian_Iron_Age:BGR_IA,0.126344,0 .157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861

1.Albania_Cinamak_Iron_Age,0.1239044,0.1531999,0.0 288229,-0.0124586,0.0291481,-0.0053786,0.001175,0.0003956,-0.000292,0.0241073,0.0025981,0.0065729,-0.0183066,-0.0076479,-0.0091901,-0.0024623,0.0109894,0.0014116,0.0047407,-0.0086647,-0.005633,0.0017666,-0.0033629,0.006593,-0.0054743
1.Croatia_Iron_Age,0.1236404,0.1502982,0.0387492,0 .0012112,0.0370838,-0.0017779,0.0004994,0.001298,0.012885,0.0267432,-0.0022126,0.0079805,-0.0120787,-0.0053156,-0.0038511,-0.000232,0.001695,0.0025813,0.0030796,-0.0008911,-0.0022305,0.0031379,-0.0035125,-0.0016719,-0.0013321

Efharisto


Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 1.8618% / 0.01861803
66.4 Slavic*(AD*540–1270)
18.6 East_Balkans_Thracian_Iron_Age
15.0 South.Greece/West.Anatolia(Roman_era_1-200AD)