Moldovan/Romanian GEDmatch Results v2

[sage]

This was far south on the territory of Buzău and Vrancea counties, on the Carpathian foothills. And this was before Mongolian invasion who killed everything on this side of Carpathians. Is absolutely irrelevant. The name "Cumania" shows who were the main population at that time in Moldova. Moldova was established by conquest and heavy colonisations, both from Transylvania/Maramureş and from Galicia. Vrancea is a territory incorporated into Moldavian state quite late in the second half of 15th century, as a result of Wallachian-Moldavian conflicts during the reign of Stephen the Great.

But in second link I showed, the vlachs had their pseudo bishops ( according to the pope )and Hungarians and Saxons were going to live with them. Some people say they were in wallachia , some say southern Moldova.

[Aspirin]

But in second link I showed, the vlachs had their bishops and Hungarians and Saxons were going to live with them

Vlachs were newcomers here, probably coming from South Transylvania. The area in this document is located on the foothills close to the areas of the fisrt mentions of Vlachs north of Danube. Probably, if not the Mongolian invasion, they could form an state formation over 100 years earlier, with the core in today Vrancea or Buzău, probably as a single state, not two like later Wallachia and Moldova, and probably without expansion into the Steppe areas.

[sage]

Vlachs were newcomers here, probably coming from South Transylvania. The area in this document is located on the foothills close to the areas of the fisrt mentions of Vlachs north of Danube. Probably, if not the Mongolian invasion, they could form an state formation over 100 years earlier, with the core in today Vrancea or Buzău, probably as a single state, not two like later Wallachia and Moldova.

Well they mostly like had a political organization because it's meationed that they were paying taxes to Prince bela at that time here is the full text:

1234 November 14, Perugia Gregorius bishop etc. carissimo in Christo filio. B. regi, primogenito regis Hungary, salutem etc. In Cumanorum episcopatu, sicut accepimus, quidam populi, qui Walati vocantur, existunt, qui etsi censenatur nomine christiano, sub una tamen fide varios ritus habentes et mores, illa committunt, que huic sunt nomini inimica. Nam Romanorum ecclesiam contempnentes non a venerabili fratre nostro ... episcopo Cumanorum, qui loci diocesanus existit, sed a quibusdam pseudo episcopis Grecorum ritum tenentibus universa recipient ecclesiastica sacramenta, et nonnulli de regno Ungarie, tam Ungarie, quam Theutonici et alii orthodoxi, morandi causa cum ipsis traseunt ad eosdem, et sic cum eis, quia populus unus facti cum eisdem Walathis eo contempto, premise recipiunt sacramenta, in grave orthodoxorum scandalum et derogationem non modicam fidei christiane. Ne igitur ex diversitate rituum pericula proveniant animarum, nos volentes huiusimos periculum obviare, we preface Walathi materiam habeant pro defectu sacramentorum ad schismaticos episcopos accedendi, eidem episcopo nostis damus litteris in mandatis, ut catholicum eis episcopum illi nationi conformem provida deliberatione constituat sibi iuxta generalis statuta concilii vicarium in predictis, qui ei per omnia sit obediens et subiectus. Contradictory etc. usque compescendo Cum autem tu tamquam princeps catholicus ad communionem dilecti filii nostri I. Prenestini electi, tunc apostolice sedis legati, prestito iuramento promiseris, te omnes inobedientes Romane ecclesie in terra tua ad obediendum eidem ecclesie compulsurum prout confecte super hoc tue littere continebant, ac eidem electo viva voce promiseris, quod prefatos Walathos compelleres ad recipiendum episcopum, quem eis ecclesia ipsa concesserit et assignare sibi de redditibus tuis, quos ab eis percipis, sufficientes redditus et honestos, sicut idem electus nobis exposuit, regalem excellentiam rogamus, monemus et hortamur attente, ac in remissionem tibi iniungimus peccatorum, quatenus cum te non deceat in regno tuo huimoudis scismaticos sustinere, ac ea, que promisisti, deo grata et hominibus sint accepta ne faceas irrita, que de tuis labiis tam laudabiliter processerunt, ea studeas efficaciter adimplere, ita quod ex hoc pleaseas Regi Regum, et nos sincerititatis tue zelum possimus dignis in domino laudibus commendation. Datum Perusi XVIII Kal. Decembris, pontificatus nostri anno octavo

[Aspirin]

Well they mostly like had a political organization because it's meationed that they were paying taxes to Prince bela at that time here is the full text:

This document doesn't show any trace of some political organized formation, is just a mention of some "Walati" who were Orthodox, nothing more. Nothig about any cities/towns or villages, nothing about their social organisation. Totally different compared to the Diploma of the Joannites, were simple Vlach polities were mentioned south of the Carpathians.

[sage]

Well some historians do link the papal diploma of 1234 and diploma of jonnities of 1247 together which they are only 13 years apart so maybe

[sage]

This document doesn't show any trace of some political organized formation, is just a mention of some "Walati" who were Orthodox, nothing more. Nothig about any cities/town or villages, nothing about their social organisation. Totally different compared to the Diploma of the Joannites, were simple Vlach polities were mentioned south of the Carpathians.

Did you tho ? It's says they were paying taxes to bela. Also this document is mostly about religion not about politics but it does meation it.. also they big enough to convert Hungarians and saxons to the Greek rite so they were big enough

[sage]

I translate this part to English
, nos volentes huiusimos periculum obviare, we preface Walathi materiam habeant pro defectu sacramentorum ad schismaticos episcopos accedendi, eidem episcopo nostis damus litteris in mandatis, ut catholicum eis episcopum illi nationi conformem provida deliberatione constituat sibi iuxta generalis statuta concilii vicarium in predictis, qui ei per omnia sit obediens et subiectus. Contradictory etc. usque compescendo Cum autem tu tamquam princeps catholicus ad communionem dilecti filii nostri I. Prenestini electi, tunc apostolice sedis legati, prestito iuramento promiseris, te omnes inobedientes Romane ecclesie in terra tua ad obediendum eidem ecclesie compulsurum prout confecte super hoc tue littere continebant, ac eidem electo viva voce promiseris, quod prefatos Walathos compelleres ad recipiendum episcopum, quem eis ecclesia ipsa concesserit et assignare sibi de redditibus tuis, quos ab eis percipis, sufficientes redditus et honestos, sicut idem electus nobis exposuit, regalem excellentiam rogamus, monemus et hortamur attente, ac in remissionem tibi iniungimus peccatorum, quatenus cum te non deceat in regno tuo huimoudis scismaticos sustinere, ac ea, que promisisti, deo grata et hominibus sint accepta ne faceas irrita, que de tuis labiis tam laudabiliter processerunt, ea studeas efficaciter adimplere, ita quod ex hoc pleaseas Regi Regum, et nos sincerititatis tue zelum possimus dignis in domino laudibus commendation. Datum Perusi XVIII Kal. Decembris, pontificatus nostri anno octavo
English translation
we, wishing to avoid this very danger, we preface Walathi have material for the lack of sacraments for approaching schismatic bishops, we give the same bishop our letters in mandates, that he may appoint for himself, according to the general statutes of the council, a catholic bishop conformable to that nation, as vicar in the aforesaid, who shall be obedient and subject to him in all things. Contradictory etc. Even when you, as a Catholic prince, promised by oath to the communion of our beloved son I. Praenestinus, then legate of the apostolic see, that you would compel all those disobedient to the Roman Church in your land to obey the same Church, as your letters contained in detail on this, and you promised the same elected one by word of mouth that you would compel the aforementioned Wallachia to receive the bishop whom the Church itself has granted them and to assign to themselves sufficient and honest revenues from your revenues, which you receive from them, as the same elected one explained to us, we beg, warn and exhort your royal excellency attentively, and we enjoin upon you the remission of sins, so that since it is not fitting for you to tolerate schismatics in your kingdom, and that you do not make void the promises you have made, which are pleasing to God and acceptable to men, which have proceeded from your lips so laudably, you will strive to fulfill them effectively, so that from this you may please the King of Kings, and we may be able to show the zeal of your sincerity. A commendation worthy of praise in the Lord. Given at Perus on the 18th Kalends of December, in the eighth year of our pontificate.

[Aspirin]

Take in consideration what kind of population were Romanians/Vlachs at that time, entirely pastoralist comunities living exclusively on foothills or directly in the Carpathian mountains. Is not a simple coincidence what Romanian influence, both culturally and genetically, goes exclusively across entire Carpathian mountain chain as far as Moravia in Czech Republic.

[AnthrogenicaRefugee]

And the prize for the most insane theory that doesn't involve aliens goes to:



p. 105 https://www.muzeu.md/wp-content/uplo...spora-2019.pdf

[AnthrogenicaRefugee]

From Cantemir district in Cahul county

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan
15.29	30.81	18.06	8.28	22.19	1.25	0.71	1.09	1.79	0.41	0.12	0	0

Distance to:	Pleseni
8.14556321	Moldovan_South
8.21350108	Pomak_Greece
8.56234197	Pomak_Bulgaria
9.12782011	Bulgarian_Northwestern
9.89438730	Bulgarian_Northcentral
10.14312082	Romanian_Dobruja
10.15226083	Montenegro_SouthEast
10.15421095	Bulgarian_Southcentral
10.25620300	Vlach_Serbia
10.29667908	Gagauz
10.57442670	Serb_SouthSerbia
10.58673226	Serb_EastSerbia
10.69186139	Romanian_Muntenia
10.85729248	Serb_KosovoMetohija
11.13934020	Romanian_Oltenia
11.19082660	Romanian_Moldavia_South
11.30893010	Bulgarian_Southwestern
11.31523310	Romanian_Banat
11.44660648	Romanian_Transylvania
11.51207627	Serb_CentralSerbia
11.70235019	Serb_Vojvodina
11.74629303	Romanian_Moldavia_Central
11.84111059	Bosniak_Southeast
11.87157530	Macedonian_North
11.89676847	Moldovan_Central

Quite unbalanced distribution between North Atlantic and Baltic, which can happen with 23andme v5 data in K13.