DNA tests cannot determine one's ethnicity, they can only estimate it.

[Mortimer]

Do you want our opinion?

There are two clusters of Turkish: Balkan and Anatolian Turks. I accept both as Turkish, but I don't accept every Turkish citizen as Turk. They are Turkish in civic sense not in ethnic sense period.

Yes i think that makes sense or there could be afro turks too equally turkish

[Dušan]

Do you want our opinion?

There are two clusters of Turkish: Balkan and Anatolian Turks. I accept both as Turkish, but I don't accept every Turkish citizen as Turk. They are Turkish in civic sense not in ethnic sense period.

There are real Balkan Turks, who have some Turkic ancestry, forum members Thracian and Kaspias are part of them.

This guy full descendant of Bosniak immigrants.

[Mortimer]

There are real Balkan Turks, who have some Turkic ancestry, forum members Thracian and Kaspias are part of them.

This guy full descendant of Bosniak immigrants.

And i think Balkan turks would not cluster as far north as bosnia maybe in bulgaria

[Dušan]

Kaspias explained to you 6 years ago

There have never been Turks beyond this line:



And Turks who live in SE Serbia fled to Thrace after the Serbian revolution. There is a small community in Prizren that still stands as the northernmost border of Turkishness.

But Bosnia? Not likely. Even the people who have been identifying Turk until today(~1%) are actually Bosniaks.

By the way, although my grand parents all lived in Bosnia-Herzegovina before 1950's and 1960's, I never felt like I am Bosnian. I always felt and feel Turkish.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7024384

[Opie]

There are real Balkan Turks, who have some Turkic ancestry, forum members Thracian and Kaspias are part of them.

This guy full descendant of Bosniak immigrants.

Then he is Bosnian.

[Gannicus]

A Ukrainian who plot closest to Swedish average doesn't mean that person is ethnically Swedish. He or she is still ethnically Ukrainian.

In my opinion, people who took ethnicity DNA tests take those results too seriously. I have even seen people who changed their ethnic identification as they saw the results, which is really ridiculous.

On PCA a Ukrainian wouldn't necessarily plot too close to Swedes. But it depends on the level. Zoomed out they'd be in the European cluster that includes Scandinavia and Eastern Europe. There is still a further back connection between Ukrainians and Swedes. It lies with the Western Steppe Herders and the Anatolian Neolithic farmers. Those two ancestral sources are present in all Europeans today. And further dissecting those elements, Western steppe herders are a mix of Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers and Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers. There seems a to be an Iran Neolithic component in there too. Anatolian neolithic farmers come from local Anatolian hunter-gatherers along with some Natufian admixture. These components are also part of Near Eastern populations. Which is why population geneticists classify Europeans and Near Easterners as West Eurasians.

If a Ukrainian took a DNA test and it showed 5% Swedish, then it could be from an actual population level event. Such as the early medieval Scandinavians settling in areas that is now Russia and Ukraine for trade purposes. They wanted to trade with the Byzantines (Eastern Romans) in Constantinople and the Islamic Caliphate in Baghdad. It's still part of them, but it's not likely from a more recent direct ancestor 5-6 generations ago.

Sure, it's an estimate, but the reason it's an estimate. It's because there is genetic overlap between populations. Even academic tools like qpAdm provide estimates in the form of Standard Errors.

People often take a rigid stance when it comes to identity. I cannot because I look at the genetic data and it does not adhere to country borders at all. Within some reason of course. I'll go back to the Ukrainian example. That person that has 5% "Swedish" admixture can claim some slight kinship and affinity in my view. Just not as much as someone that genetically has more ties from there.

Let's look at Turks for example. This is cool song. I like it myself:



The main artist is a Turk, and the Female artists are from Siberia, Krasnoyarsk Krai. This area is the same general area where the Turkic urheimat is. I see it on the internet a lot. Turks have a special Interest in Atilla the Hun (Xiongnu) and have an interest in Tengrism. Turks from Anatolia have some admixture that relates to this area; however, it's a small amount. Some figures I've seen put it at 5-15% on average. Whatever the figure is it may still be considered a "small" amount. I'm not going to be a gatekeeper and say Turks from Anatolia have no connection to that region. I will add nuance though and say that they have some connection to the region, but have more ancestry from West Asia.

[Dušan]

Then he is Bosnian.

I find it funny how he knows that all 4 his grandparents came to Turkey as Slavic speaking Muslims from Bosnia in 1960, yet claim DNA test are false and he is ethnic Turk.

[Jingle Bell]

i get what u saying but ur example is not good, a much better one would be between spaniards and portugueses or even iberians and nothern italians. Yeah, u cannot be 100% sure by someone ethnic background by just looking where he plot in PCA (i plot in NA, im almost 0% NA, a half german/lebanese would plot in Italy/Greece, even if he is 0% italo-greek). But for not mixed individuals thing are rather clear, i alr saw some more MENA rich spaniards be equally distant between north/center italians and other iberians, that dont makes him non-iberian.

[Klamar]

A Ukrainian who plot closest to Swedish average doesn't mean that person is ethnically Swedish. He or she is still ethnically Ukrainian.

In my opinion, people who took ethnicity DNA tests take those results too seriously. I have even seen people who changed their ethnic identification as they saw the results, which is really ridiculous.

Ukrainians plot quite far from Swedes, I am not sure what your point is here? There are some who do not consider DNA as part of ethnicity, but this is rather reserved for populations like Prussians or Baltic Germans, or Eastern Black Sea Turks.

[Klamar]

Bosniaks, Circassians, Turkmens, Kurds, Levantines, Albanians... All are equally Turkish. In Turkey, you cannot say "you are not ethnically Turkish because you are of Circassian origin". If you say so, you are f.cked up.

Turkishness has nothing to do with genetics.

Except you can and people do say that they are not ethnically Turkish? I mean, one of the populations you listed supported a brutal separatist movement for decades. Not to mention none of these groups consider Turkishness as an ethnic identity.