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Thread: Dutch samples

  1. #11
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    Father:
    Distance to: Father(PicardieNorthernFrance)
    0.02734187 Dutch_Limburg:H412899
    0.02802167 Dutch_LimburgM7732936
    0.02889614 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HX8707794
    0.02891434 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HJ1565071
    0.02979553 Dutch_Zeeland:EJ1032685
    0.03021407 Dutch_Limburg:LE8888746
    0.03063467 Dutch_Limburg:RN6615222
    0.03066161 Dutch_GelderlandX8777979
    0.03075316 Dutch_Noord-BrabantE1407240
    0.03093667 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:WP5505849
    0.03127265 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:H351790
    0.03134083 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:H753533
    0.03139099 Dutch_Limburg:HA2354864
    0.03143074 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:M004105
    0.03188194 Dutch_Zeeland:WC6559538
    0.03199858 Dutch_Zeeland:NN7182142
    0.03210926 Dutch_Gelderland:M985216
    0.03219517 Dutch_Zeeland:T543469
    0.03222848 Dutch_UtrechtH8506706
    0.03237909 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:GS8697977
    0.03243641 Dutch_Noord-Holland:LH5412526
    0.03271026 Dutch_Utrecht:BR8954909
    0.03271673 Dutch_OverijsselS1479890
    0.03276809 Dutch_Noord-Holland:XY3535077
    0.03293236 Dutch_Limburg:BT5110306
    0.03294533 Dutch_Noord-BrabantS2298996
    0.03305167 Dutch_Limburg:RM2814865
    0.03351764 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:JG8374139
    0.03371464 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:CP2734447
    0.03411957 Dutch_Noord-Holland:T489039
    0.03416956 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:T875904
    0.03417468 Dutch_Limburg:GV6653497
    0.03467212 Dutch_Limburg:CM4374754
    0.03484778 Dutch_Zuid-HollandA2294194
    0.03487782 Dutch_Zeeland:M061660
    0.03488465 Dutch_Limburg:T489799
    0.03502770 Dutch_Gelderland:EP9093028
    0.03508033 Dutch_Noord-Brabant_o:YQ6881956
    0.03570040 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:LQ6346310
    0.03628636 Dutch_Utrecht:RN8144828
    0.03652564 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:HH7941857
    0.03652674 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:T801068
    0.03770965 Dutch_OverijsselX5092419
    0.03789887 Dutch_Utrecht:H836047
    0.03858295 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:CY6709751
    0.03918908 Dutch_Overijssel:T030346
    0.03957536 Dutch_Noord-Holland:XE5464458
    0.03972306 Dutch_Noord-Holland:BC5107364
    0.03979562 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:H134403
    0.03988509 Dutch_Drenthe-Groningen:Groningen:KR8526389
    0.04043637 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:GU7404454
    0.04063567 Dutch_Gelderland:LY1420998
    0.04114836 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:EB9149942
    0.04171339 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:WD2828455
    0.04190082 Dutch_Noord-Brabant_o:GY6638034
    0.04219343 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:FL4527245
    0.04225444 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:LZ5719383
    0.04285742 Dutch_Drenthe-GroningenGroningen_1/4_Drenthe):BM4256739
    0.04299422 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:BD6652894
    0.04299638 Dutch_Noord-Holland:H987676
    0.04444619 Dutch_Utrecht:MV2869699
    0.04448828 Dutch_Drenthe-Groningenrenthe:EX2182145
    0.04459749 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:TM1938594
    0.04521787 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:T581309
    0.04741175 Dutch_Noord-Holland:SW4854552
    0.04792680 Dutch_Overijssel:T324158
    0.04831093 Frisian_Netherlands:Frieseland:UQ5910080
    0.04935005 Dutch_Noord-Holland:H597184

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Ketch View Post
    The average of all of them would be sufficient.
    This would not be representative of local diversity and would be misleading; it is necessary to create averages by group and genetic profile.

    In any case, I have noticed that one cannot correctly and reliably model modern samples using ancient samples (even from the Middle Ages) on G25. It only takes a modern target sample with a high EEF or Steppe load for it to obtain a higher percentage from a source sample also high in EEF or Steppe.

    Some Gauls had an excess of Steppe and others an excess of EEF, while others had an intermediate profile between the two extremes. If you create an average with a single sample intended to represent a vast range of EEF and Steppe percentages, that sample ends up with a 'middle' profile (neither too much Steppe nor too much EEF -Anatolian + WHG). If you then include a more Steppe-heavy sample like "Iron Age Denmark", it is logical that my father from northern France would get something like 50-50%, since there is no France IA sample loaded in Steppe (nor any other loaded in EEF also).

    What I mean is: some French people, for example, descend from several Continental Celtic strains with variable rates of EEF and Steppe. Sometimes adding a Danish IA sample only captures the Steppe-heavy element but does not truly allow one to say, 'this person has x percentage of Nordic/Germanic.' Furthermore, the single France IA sample (an average of several hundred France La Tène samples with varying EEF and Steppe percentages) yields an average profile that is neither too Steppe-heavy nor too EEF-heavy, and fails to capture either excess.

    There is also the fact that G25 often captures genetic proximity; therefore, the target sample with the most proximity to a source sample will receive a higher percentage. Modeling on G25 is sometimes a sort of PCA (more a measure of genetic proximity in this case) and does not truly allow for a modeling of ancestral contributions, even for pure sample (without admix). It is also often necessary to reduce the number of samples and avoid excessive "averaging".

  3. #13
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    Distance to: CE_scaled
    0.02230877 Dutch_Limburg:CM4374754
    0.02439512 Dutch_Limburg:RM2814865
    0.02505357 Dutch_Noord-Brabant: PS2298996
    0.02579101 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:WP5505849
    0.02651008 Dutch_Noord-Brabant: PE1407240
    0.02685030 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HX8707794
    0.02698086 Dutch_Limburg:GV6653497
    0.02797935 Dutch_Limburg:H412899
    0.02826919 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:M004105
    0.02888610 Dutch_Limburg: DM7732936
    0.02952738 Dutch_Limburg:BT5110306
    0.03003585 Dutch_Zeeland:T543469
    0.03069338 Dutch_Zeeland:M061660
    0.03088921 Dutch_Zeeland:EJ1032685
    0.03118956 Dutch_Limburg:LE8888746
    0.03180056 Dutch_Gelderland: DX8777979
    0.03189968 Dutch_Limburg:HA2354864
    0.03190071 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:T801068
    0.03211862 Dutch_Limburg:RN6615222
    0.03286302 Dutch_Limburg:T489799
    0.03375181 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:GS8697977
    0.03398564 Dutch_Zeeland:WC6559538
    0.03400180 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:H351790
    0.03437053 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:LQ6346310
    0.03448837 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HJ1565071

    Target: CE_scaled
    Distance: 2.2223% / 0.02222261
    85.6 Dutch_Limburg
    14.4 Dutch_Noord-Brabant

  4. #14
    Member Fistora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gannicus View Post
    Eh, you have to take the distances in context.

    Henan and Hubei province in China are right next to each other. And this Han Chinese individual is roughly the same distance to the adjacent province individuals as you are to these Dutch individuals.


    Distance to: Han_Hubei:Han874
    0.02652427 Han_Hubei:Han789
    0.03308515 Han_Hubei:Han2162
    0.03411358 Han_Hubei:Han788
    0.03663127 Han_Hubei:Han2161
    0.05429854 Han_Henan:Han894
    0.05501024 Han_Henan:Han1714
    0.05681130 Han_Henan:Han1713
    0.05939881 Han_Henan:Han1226
    0.06248868 Han_Henan:Han1243
    True, even though I am mostly Polish, my distances to averaged and individual Polish samples are not particularly close (probably caused by some Asian drifted noise in my coordinates). It's more about the proportions when modeling with these populations.

    Distance to: me_scaled
    0.02651543 Polish_Silesia_(n=2)
    0.03015366 Polish_(n=60)
    0.03042056 Polish_Wielkopolska_(n=11)
    0.05767832 Dutch_Zuid-Holland
    0.05919047 Dutch_Utrecht
    0.05936828 Dutch_Gelderland
    0.05969916 Dutch_Overijssel
    0.06006898 Dutch_Noord-Holland
    0.06050002 Dutch_Zeeland
    0.06120832 Dutch_Drenthe-Groningen
    0.06133903 Frisian_Netherlands
    0.06245497 Dutch_Limburg
    0.06250075 Dutch_Noord-Brabant

    And example of German_Hamburg:GSM1031527,0.12862,0.136081,0.07768 7,0.055233,0.040007,0.028168,0.011751,0.011769,0.0 0409,-0.005649,0.002598,-0.002098,0.004608,0.022295,0.0019,-0.007823,-0.018645,0.004181,-0.002765,-0.007754,0.002745,0.000989,0.01023,-0.000723,-0.012574 sample which already seems to be strongly Slavic anyway.

    Distance to: German_Hamburg:GSM1031527
    0.03762815 Polish_(n=60)
    0.03823787 Polish_Wielkopolska_(n=11)
    0.04250643 Polish_Silesia_(n=2)
    0.05357497 Dutch_Overijssel
    0.05497322 Dutch_Drenthe-Groningen
    0.05507837 Dutch_Utrecht
    0.05513167 Dutch_Gelderland
    0.05545879 Dutch_Zuid-Holland
    0.05563901 Dutch_Noord-Holland
    0.05571989 Frisian_Netherlands
    0.05845609 Dutch_Zeeland
    0.05999596 Dutch_Noord-Brabant
    0.06050869 Dutch_Limburg

    The differences in distances to the Dutch samples between me and this Hamburg sample are minimal, but the model's proportions will change due to the increased distance to the Polish average.
    Last edited by Fistora; 01-30-2026 at 04:45 AM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coastal Elite View Post
    Distance to: CE_scaled
    0.02230877 Dutch_Limburg:CM4374754
    0.02439512 Dutch_Limburg:RM2814865
    0.02505357 Dutch_Noord-Brabant: PS2298996
    0.02579101 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:WP5505849
    0.02651008 Dutch_Noord-Brabant: PE1407240
    0.02685030 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HX8707794
    0.02698086 Dutch_Limburg:GV6653497
    0.02797935 Dutch_Limburg:H412899
    0.02826919 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:M004105
    0.02888610 Dutch_Limburg: DM7732936
    0.02952738 Dutch_Limburg:BT5110306
    0.03003585 Dutch_Zeeland:T543469
    0.03069338 Dutch_Zeeland:M061660
    0.03088921 Dutch_Zeeland:EJ1032685
    0.03118956 Dutch_Limburg:LE8888746
    0.03180056 Dutch_Gelderland: DX8777979
    0.03189968 Dutch_Limburg:HA2354864
    0.03190071 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:T801068
    0.03211862 Dutch_Limburg:RN6615222
    0.03286302 Dutch_Limburg:T489799
    0.03375181 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:GS8697977
    0.03398564 Dutch_Zeeland:WC6559538
    0.03400180 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:H351790
    0.03437053 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:LQ6346310
    0.03448837 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HJ1565071

    Target: CE_scaled
    Distance: 2.2223% / 0.02222261
    85.6 Dutch_Limburg
    14.4 Dutch_Noord-Brabant
    Do you have some Dutch ancestry?

  6. #16
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    Target: gixajo_scaled
    Distance: 5.3589% / 0.05358876

    78.2 Dutch_Noord-Brabant
    21.8 Dutch_Limburg

    Distance to: gixajo_scaled
    0.05362844 Dutch_Noord-BrabantE1407240
    0.05410093 Dutch_LimburgM7732936
    0.05542875 Dutch_Limburg:RM2814865
    0.05558958 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HX8707794
    0.05614917 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HJ1565071
    0.05698274 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:WP5505849
    0.05734334 Dutch_Limburg:H412899
    0.05746851 Dutch_GelderlandX8777979
    0.05756081 Dutch_Limburg:CM4374754
    0.05896533 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:GS8697977
    0.05932245 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:H351790
    0.05935044 Dutch_Zeeland:M061660
    0.05954703 Dutch_Limburg:RN6615222
    0.06005414 Dutch_Limburg:HA2354864
    0.06023495 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:M004105
    0.06065459 Dutch_Zeeland:EJ1032685
    0.06103183 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:H753533
    0.06119388 Dutch_Limburg:GV6653497
    0.06152534 Dutch_Zeeland:T543469
    0.06212693 Dutch_Noord-BrabantS2298996
    0.06230532 Dutch_Zeeland:WC6559538
    0.06272854 Dutch_Limburg:BT5110306
    0.06324172 Dutch_Limburg:LE8888746
    0.06402423 Dutch_Gelderland:M985216
    0.06468816 Dutch_Limburg:T489799

    With all the samples from Biscay province:

    Spoiler!


    Target: gixajo_scaled
    Distance: 1.8393% / 0.01839262

    94.4 Biscay
    5.6 Dutch_Limburg


    "Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas"

    "Dimidium facti, qui coepit, habet: sapere aude, incipe."

  7. #17
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    Incredible North-South divide for such a small country in land.

  8. #18
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    I am shocked about the close distances our Celtic members (both insular and continental) have to the Dutch. I expected Nederlanders to be more Germanic than Celtic.

  9. #19
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    Target: Mopes_simulated_g25_scaled
    Distance: 2.9038% / 0.02903826
    81.2 Dutch_Noord-Brabant
    18.8 Dutch_Limburg

    Distance to: Mopes_simulated_g25_scaled
    0.02916365 Dutch_Noord-BrabantE1407240
    0.03038315 Dutch_LimburgM7732936
    0.03086551 Dutch_Limburg:CM4374754
    0.03129528 Dutch_Limburg:RM2814865
    0.03171092 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HX8707794
    0.03316275 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:WP5505849
    0.03322654 Dutch_Limburg:H412899
    0.03388518 Dutch_Limburg:GV6653497
    0.03414508 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:M004105
    0.03517395 Dutch_GelderlandX8777979
    0.03565102 Dutch_Limburg:RN6615222
    0.03582423 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:GS8697977
    0.03591161 Dutch_Zeeland:M061660
    0.03606701 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:HJ1565071
    0.03639780 Dutch_Noord-BrabantS2298996
    0.03647667 Dutch_Zeeland:T543469
    0.03682638 Dutch_Noord-Brabant:H351790
    0.03721103 Dutch_Limburg:HA2354864
    0.03748583 Dutch_Zeeland:EJ1032685
    0.03835933 Dutch_Limburg:BT5110306
    0.03903466 Dutch_Limburg:LE8888746
    0.03972969 Dutch_Zeeland:WC6559538
    0.04012728 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:H753533
    0.04035988 Dutch_Gelderland:M985216
    0.04062646 Dutch_Zuid-Holland:T801068

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mina View Post
    Code:
    Dutch_Limburg,0.1310367,0.1377863,0.0559879,0.0351133,0.0382125,0.013984,0.0043467,0.004877,0.004116,0.006065,-0.0045401,0.00585,-0.0122587,-0.0085866,0.0151304,0.0033072,-0.0055304,0.0015028,0.0025198,0.0014885,0.002725,0.002654,0.0007745,0.0119049,-0.0008444
    Dutch_Noord-Brabant,0.1304826,0.138278,0.0550149,0.034738,0.0383377,0.0139667,0.0039843,0.0049247,0.0047549,0.00707,-0.0042576,0.0054351,-0.0122291,-0.007599,0.0146839,0.0028169,-0.0058706,0.0015701,0.002491,0.0011029,0.003733,0.0017207,0.000465,0.0089727,0.0000291
    Dutch_Zeeland,0.1297286,0.1377602,0.057711,0.0384628,0.0394366,0.0146594,0.0037882,0.004821,0.0049868,0.0055552,-0.004582,0.0052038,-0.0114614,-0.0079318,0.015588,0.004565,-0.0058626,0.001703,0.0036522,0.0015308,0.0033374,0.0019174,0.0014278,0.0119062,0.0000464
    Dutch_Zuid-Holland,0.1312008,0.1364321,0.0600374,0.0426484,0.0398868,0.0165802,0.0045642,0.0059248,0.005202,0.0030967,-0.0052798,0.0045818,-0.0099141,-0.0074269,0.016582,0.0056265,-0.0057335,0.0017332,0.0027502,0.002182,0.0039287,0.0020417,0.0006488,0.0117417,-0.0002345
    Dutch_Noord-Holland,0.1318496,0.1353879,0.0628264,0.0478484,0.0395956,0.0189518,0.0043871,0.0058098,0.0037852,0.0004419,-0.005755,0.0049536,-0.0108741,-0.00857,0.0206494,0.0060948,-0.0075792,0.0017038,0.002452,0.0033816,0.0051159,0.0022575,0.0008452,0.013732,-0.0000746
    Dutch_Utrecht,0.1315564,0.1351822,0.0617064,0.0448514,0.0393734,0.0171084,0.0047972,0.0062504,0.0045826,0.0020538,-0.0045976,0.004713,-0.010506,-0.009173,0.0176046,0.0047126,-0.007211,0.0019192,0.0026492,0.0019292,0.003949,0.0028638,0.0009032,0.0126116,-0.0003008
    Dutch_Gelderland,0.1315528,0.1373195,0.0617272,0.042693,0.0414652,0.0166415,0.0049415,0.006324,0.006605,0.0046762,-0.0048005,0.0043588,-0.0100888,-0.0092215,0.016077,0.004398,-0.0067218,0.0019388,0.0017948,0.0009785,0.0034275,0.0025892,-0.0002022,0.0109698,-0.0005495
    Dutch_Overijssel,0.1319198,0.1362495,0.06357,0.0491772,0.0407432,0.019563,0.0041598,0.0060208,0.0046242,0.0006075,-0.0055842,0.004279,-0.0105165,-0.0069062,0.020493,0.0056828,-0.0090932,0.0019342,0.0032888,0.0025452,0.0049052,0.0015082,0.001192,0.013664,0.0004228
    Dutch_Drenthe-Groningen,0.131877,0.1358633,0.066177,0.05172,0.041982,0.02056,0.004566,0.0068817,0.005281,0.000317,-0.005989,0.004428,-0.0106547,-0.0085623,0.022888,0.0070633,-0.0087847,0.0016927,0.0019307,0.003961,0.0063963,0.001287,0.000422,0.0124313,0.0009673
    Frisian_Netherlands,0.1327105,0.1371008,0.0655491,0.0509541,0.0418769,0.0205419,0.0049546,0.006344,0.0041731,-0.0000252,-0.0062508,0.0049168,-0.0110815,-0.008049,0.0223159,0.0073558,-0.0085781,0.0024235,0.0033314,0.003333,0.0057384,0.0019578,0.0008335,0.0160188,0.0003784

    Code:
    Danish,0.131248,0.135065,0.066378,0.052438,0.041303,0.019457,0.005159,0.007401,0.003436,-0.002558,-0.005359,0.00348,-0.008507,-0.007093,0.018669,0.006117,-0.006519,0.002047,0.00324,0.004346,0.00564,0.002435,0.000692,0.013774,0.000201
    Irish,0.133361,0.134098,0.061169,0.048864,0.037788,0.019352,0.003293,0.004713,0.003568,0.002927,-0.006971,0.00584,-0.014189,-0.014076,0.025935,0.005215,-0.011145,0.001894,0.000597,0.001776,0.005114,0.001279,0.000293,0.014407,0.000661
    French_Nord,0.128275,0.140543,0.051357,0.025605,0.038273,0.008891,0.001097,0.00442,0.008373,0.012016,-0.003484,0.004033,-0.010861,-0.008182,0.011199,0.002543,-0.004607,0.002227,0.004095,0.001031,0.002133,0.001525,-0.001572,0.007471,1.4e-05

    Target: Lx_K36
    Distance: 0.9379% / 0.00937916
    61.4 Dutch_Zuid-Holland
    31.0 Dutch_Noord-Brabant
    7.6 Dutch_Zeeland

    Target: Lx_g25(scaled)
    Distance: 2.2924% / 0.02292377
    56.4 Dutch_Overijssel
    43.6 Dutch_Noord-Brabant


    With Danish, French and Irish:


    Target: Lx_K36
    Distance: 0.9273% / 0.00927281
    80.4 Dutch_Zuid-Holland
    16.2 French_Nord
    3.4 Dutch_Noord-Brabant

    Target: Lx_g25(scaled)
    Distance: 2.2541% / 0.02254060
    70.6 Dutch_Overijssel
    29.4 French_Nord

    Distance to: Lx_K36
    0.00993149 Dutch_Zeeland
    0.01029011 Dutch_Zuid-Holland
    0.01166196 Dutch_Limburg
    0.01186139 Dutch_Gelderland
    0.01223942 Dutch_Noord-Brabant
    0.01393974 Dutch_Utrecht
    0.01714765 Dutch_Noord-Holland
    0.01745608 Dutch_Overijssel
    0.02063450 Frisian_Netherlands
    0.02110008 Danish
    0.02202144 Dutch_Drenthe-Groningen
    0.02266115 French_Nord
    0.02418846 Irish

    Distance to: Lx_g25(scaled)
    0.02397961 Dutch_Zuid-Holland
    0.02410170 Dutch_Utrecht
    0.02425777 Dutch_Gelderland
    0.02427293 Dutch_Zeeland
    0.02472843 Dutch_Overijssel
    0.02549090 Dutch_Limburg
    0.02579749 Dutch_Noord-Holland
    0.02588814 Dutch_Noord-Brabant
    0.02770739 Frisian_Netherlands
    0.02785785 Irish
    0.02890090 Dutch_Drenthe-Groningen
    0.02905952 Danish
    0.03318700 French_Nord

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