Were the Visigoths and Suebi related to the Slavs?

[ScandinavianCelt]

@cass

AI gives me this conclusion on my results:

Overall interpretation

Your ancient profile looks approximately:

predominantly Northwestern/Central European,
moderately northeastern-shifted,
strong Migration Period continental affinity,
overlapping somewhat with early Slavic genetic space,
but not strongly or specifically Slavic itself.

So if a modern calculator gives you:

a modest Slavic percentage,
Eastern European traces,
Balkan-like drift,
or “Broadly Eastern European,”

that would fit this ancient profile quite well.

The Slavic question specifically

Your profile is compatible with:

some Slavic-related ancestry,
or ancestry from regions historically adjacent to Slavs.

But the ancient signal itself is more:

Migration Period continental Germanic/Central European
than specifically Slavic.

The reason is that:

Lombards,
Visigoths,
early Slavs,
and related continental groups

shared substantial ancestry from northeastern European Iron Age populations.

-------------------------------------------

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 2.3749% / 0.02374910
47.4 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
15.6 Spain_Visigoth.AG
13.0 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
8.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG
5.4 I22103
4.6 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG
2.0 I23772
2.0 Italy_Imperial_oAnatoliaCaucasus.SG
1.4 I23273

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 2.5542% / 0.02554247 | ADC: 2x RC
51.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
27.0 I22103
21.4 I23273

------------------------

On an interesting note, my closest match -- CL146 Langobard-- matches me very well on the standard Yamnaya calc:

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 3.8097% / 0.03809678
53.4 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
35.4 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
11.2 France_Rochedane

Target: Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
Distance: 5.0042% / 0.05004161
53.2 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
34.2 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
12.6 France_Rochedane

[cass]

@cass

AI gives me this conclusion on my results:

Overall interpretation

Your ancient profile looks approximately:

predominantly Northwestern/Central European,
moderately northeastern-shifted,
strong Migration Period continental affinity,
overlapping somewhat with early Slavic genetic space,
but not strongly or specifically Slavic itself.

So if a modern calculator gives you:

a modest Slavic percentage,
Eastern European traces,
Balkan-like drift,
or “Broadly Eastern European,”

that would fit this ancient profile quite well.

The Slavic question specifically

Your profile is compatible with:

some Slavic-related ancestry,
or ancestry from regions historically adjacent to Slavs.

But the ancient signal itself is more:

Migration Period continental Germanic/Central European
than specifically Slavic.

The reason is that:

Lombards,
Visigoths,
early Slavs,
and related continental groups

shared substantial ancestry from northeastern European Iron Age populations.

-------------------------------------------

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 2.3749% / 0.02374910
47.4 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
15.6 Spain_Visigoth.AG
13.0 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
8.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG
5.4 I22103
4.6 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG
2.0 I23772
2.0 Italy_Imperial_oAnatoliaCaucasus.SG
1.4 I23273

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 2.5542% / 0.02554247 | ADC: 2x RC
51.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
27.0 I22103
21.4 I23273

------------------------

On an interesting note, my closest match -- CL146 Langobard-- matches me very well on the standard Yamnaya calc:

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 3.8097% / 0.03809678
53.4 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
35.4 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
11.2 France_Rochedane

Target: Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
Distance: 5.0042% / 0.05004161
53.2 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
34.2 Turkey_Barcin_LN.SG
12.6 France_Rochedane

Try adding a few extra samples — maybe the distance will improve then. Maybe try x0.5 as well.
ProtoSlavic?Denmark_Jutland_PreRoman_IA:CGG106486_ CGG106491__BC_202__Cov_67.50%,0.130897,0.125926,0. 084852,0.070737,0.044316,0.031515,0.013631,0.01546 1,-0.002045,-0.020593,-0.006008,-0.007343,0.017245,0.027937,-0.007872,-0.006629,-0.010431,0.006334,0.001634,0.001876,-0.009358,-0.004081,0.001232,-0.016147,0.002515


I haven’t checked the IBD of the Langobards and the Scandinavian Germanic groups in detail. As for the Wielbark culture, their profile points to a local substrate with only a limited influx of population. In general, from an IBD perspective, Wielbark and medieval Poland are distinguishable only in certain minor details when looking at the pre-cremation period. Later on, however, one has to make a major correction for the transition into the cremation period and the dominance of samples from the southwest and southeast in the IBD data.
https://ibb.co/v4dBGKFs

[Dorquest]

Distance to: Dorquest_scaled
0.03356634 I22103
0.03477990 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL8 4_son.CL87.AG:CL83.AG__AD_605__Cov_62.26%
0.03491314 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL63.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_74.47%
0.03760099 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
0.03959793 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_son.CL93.AG :CL92.AG__AD_605__Cov_66.39%
0.04199793 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG:R106.SG__ AD_500__Cov_71.53%
0.04329602 I23273
0.04453954 I23772
0.04482191 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL47.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.01%
0.04572764 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG:CL145.AG__AD_605__Cov_72.84%
0.04793711 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL93.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.11%
0.05066585 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_mother.CL14 5_mother.CL146.AG:CL151.AG__AD_605__Cov_64.70%
0.05184949 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL57.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_68.84%
0.05240350 Spain_Visigoth.AG:I12031.AG__AD_558__Cov_49.22%
0.05269669 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG:R31.SG__A D_412__Cov_90.31%
0.06941977 Italy_LateAntiquity_oCentralEuropean.SG:R105.SG__A D_500__Cov_75.30%
0.07826876 I23764
0.08120457 Portugal_Miroico_LateRoman.SG:R10502.SG__AD_425__C ov_72.37%
0.08624120 I19667
0.08729527 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG:R11121.SG__AD_200__ Cov_60.99%


Target: Dorquest_scaled

Distance: 2.1011% / 0.02101140
38.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG
37.0 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG
11.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_mother.CL14 5_mother.CL146.AG
6.6 I23764
4.0 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL8 4_son.CL87.AG
1.2 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG
1.0 I19670

[Gannicus]

Distance to: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
0.03310835 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG:R31.SG__A D_412__Cov_90.31%
0.03312217 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG:R106.SG__ AD_500__Cov_71.53%
0.03633137 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL8 4_son.CL87.AG:CL83.AG__AD_605__Cov_62.26%
0.03668848 I23273
0.03867122 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
0.04122461 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL93.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.11%
0.04173999 I22103
0.04237548 I23772
0.04260541 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_son.CL93.AG :CL92.AG__AD_605__Cov_66.39%
0.04402785 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL63.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_74.47%
0.05044025 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL47.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.01%
0.05304757 Spain_Visigoth.AG:I12031.AG__AD_558__Cov_49.22%
0.05575431 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_mother.CL14 5_mother.CL146.AG:CL151.AG__AD_605__Cov_64.70%
0.05801892 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG:CL145.AG__AD_605__Cov_72.84%
0.05855876 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL57.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_68.84%
0.07111173 Italy_LateAntiquity_oCentralEuropean.SG:R105.SG__A D_500__Cov_75.30%
0.07152599 I23764
0.07349061 Portugal_Miroico_LateRoman.SG:R10502.SG__AD_425__C ov_72.37%
0.08260396 I19667
0.08410644 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG:R11121.SG__AD_200__ Cov_60.99%

Target: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
Distance: 0.0175% / 0.01748879
30.3 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
28.5 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
13.5 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG
12.6 I29525
4.1 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_mother.CL14 5_mother.CL146.AG
4.0 I23764
3.8 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL8 4_son.CL87.AG
3.2 Portugal_Miroico_LateRoman.SG

Target: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
Distance: 0.0176% / 0.01757855 | R5P
33.2 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
30.7 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
18.2 I29525
12.1 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG
5.8 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL8 4_son.CL87.AG

Target: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
Distance: 0.0177% / 0.01765537 | R4P
38.2 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
30.8 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
19.3 I29525
11.7 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG

Target: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
Distance: 0.0180% / 0.01800514 | R3P
44.7 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
32.6 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
22.7 I29525

[ScandinavianCelt]

Try adding a few extra samples — maybe the distance will improve then. Maybe try x0.5 as well.
ProtoSlavic?Denmark_Jutland_PreRoman_IA:CGG106486_ CGG106491__BC_202__Cov_67.50%,0.130897,0.125926,0. 084852,0.070737,0.044316,0.031515,0.013631,0.01546 1,-0.002045,-0.020593,-0.006008,-0.007343,0.017245,0.027937,-0.007872,-0.006629,-0.010431,0.006334,0.001634,0.001876,-0.009358,-0.004081,0.001232,-0.016147,0.002515


I haven’t checked the IBD of the Langobards and the Scandinavian Germanic groups in detail. As for the Wielbark culture, their profile points to a local substrate with only a limited influx of population. In general, from an IBD perspective, Wielbark and medieval Poland are distinguishable only in certain minor details when looking at the pre-cremation period. Later on, however, one has to make a major correction for the transition into the cremation period and the dominance of samples from the southwest and southeast in the IBD data.
https://ibb.co/v4dBGKFs

At no added distance I get 9.6% of this sample you included

[JerryS.]

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.5336% / 0.01533649 | R4P
66.2 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
16.4 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
8.8 Italy_Imperial.SG
8.6 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.5119% / 0.01511911 | ADC: 0.25x RC
59.2 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
16.0 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
7.4 Spain_Visigoth.AG
6.8 Italy_Imperial.SG
4.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG
4.4 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG
1.6 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.5089% / 0.01508851
60.2 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG
15.0 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
7.8 Spain_Visigoth.AG
6.0 Italy_Imperial.SG
5.4 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG
4.4 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG
0.8 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG
0.4 I19670

[Dick]

Target: dick
Distance: 1.6415% / 0.01641537
45.4 ProtoSlavic?Denmark_Jutland_PreRoman_IA
20.4 Italy_LateAntiquity.SG
19.2 I23273
15.0 Italy_Imperial.SG

Target: dad
Distance: 2.4365% / 0.02436523
40.6 ProtoSlavic?Denmark_Jutland_PreRoman_IA
27.8 I23273
19.2 Italy_Imperial.SG
10.6 I24680
1.2 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG
0.6 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG

Target: mom
Distance: 1.3579% / 0.01357950
45.6 ProtoSlavic?Denmark_Jutland_PreRoman_IA
18.6 Italy_Imperial.SG
10.0 I23273
8.8 Italy_Sardinia_SantImbenia_RomanImperial.SG
7.6 Italy_LateAntiquity.SG
5.2 I28354
4.2 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG

[noricum]

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 3.2830% / 0.03282971
52.0 I22103
36.4 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL63.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_74.47%
7.8 I23772
2.2 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_son.CL93.AG :CL92.AG__AD_605__Cov_66.39%
1.6 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG:CL145.AG__AD_605__Cov_72.84%

Distance to: G25noricum_scaled
0.03491967 I22103
0.03848389 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL63.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_74.47%
0.04336739 I23273
0.04991828 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_son.CL93.AG :CL92.AG__AD_605__Cov_66.39%
0.04992093 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL47.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.01%
0.05118246 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG:R106.SG__ AD_500__Cov_71.53%
0.05122107 I23772
0.05259180 Spain_Visigoth.AG:I12031.AG__AD_558__Cov_49.22%
0.05407555 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL8 4_son.CL87.AG:CL83.AG__AD_605__Cov_62.26%
0.05448503 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
0.05789145 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL57.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_68.84%
0.06039798 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG:CL145.AG__AD_605__Cov_72.84%
0.06330621 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG:R31.SG__A D_412__Cov_90.31%
0.06861279 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL93.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.11%
0.07097043 Italy_LateAntiquity_oCentralEuropean.SG:R105.SG__A D_500__Cov_75.30%
0.07296325 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_mother.CL14 5_mother.CL146.AG:CL151.AG__AD_605__Cov_64.70%
0.08272985 I19667
0.08832919 Portugal_Miroico_LateRoman.SG:R10502.SG__AD_425__C ov_72.37%
0.08892107 I23764
0.09235777 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG:R11121.SG__AD_200__ Cov_60.99%
0.09282394 I28354
0.09523976 I29525
0.10711355 Italy_LateAntiquity.SG:R121.SG__AD_500__Cov_52.10%
0.11638085 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_o3.AG:CL121.A G__AD_605__Cov_75.50%
0.11990747 Italy_Imperial.SG:R49.SG__AD_200__Cov_77.08%

[Catnip]

Target: Tatsuo
Distance: 0.8564% / 0.00856363
26.8 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG
16.2 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG
15.2 I23772
10.0 I23273
6.2 Spain_Visigoth.AG
5.4 I23764
5.2 I19667
5.0 Portugal_Miroico_LateRoman.SG
4.4 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG
3.4 I28354
2.2 I29525

Distance to: Tatsuo
0.02491137 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL47.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.01%
0.02566014 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL63.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_74.47%
0.02914119 I22103
0.03042669 Italy_LateAntiquity_o2CentralEuropean.SG:R106.SG__ AD_500__Cov_71.53%
0.03087170 Spain_Visigoth.AG:I12031.AG__AD_558__Cov_49.22%
0.03437524 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL57.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_68.84%
0.03492732 I23273
0.04493119 Italy_LateAntiquity_oCentralEuropean.SG:R105.SG__A D_500__Cov_75.30%
0.04618464 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL8 4_son.CL87.AG:CL83.AG__AD_605__Cov_62.26%
0.04687969 Italy_LateAntiquity_o3CentralEuropean.SG:R31.SG__A D_412__Cov_90.31%
0.05050939 I23772
0.05106666 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL146.AG __AD_605__Cov_73.81%
0.05325367 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_son.CL93.AG :CL92.AG__AD_605__Cov_66.39%
0.05620426 Portugal_Miroico_LateRoman.SG:R10502.SG__AD_425__C ov_72.37%
0.05655748 I19667
0.05819109 I23764
0.06083168 Italy_RomanImperial_oEurope.SG:R11121.SG__AD_200__ Cov_60.99%
0.06232792 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1.AG:CL93.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.11%
0.06461638 I28354
0.06604106 I29525
0.06943676 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG:CL145.AG__AD_605__Cov_72.84%
0.07212949 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_mother.CL14 5_mother.CL146.AG:CL151.AG__AD_605__Cov_64.70%
0.08547099 Italy_LateAntiquity.SG:R121.SG__AD_500__Cov_52.10%
0.08998719 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_o3.AG:CL121.A G__AD_605__Cov_75.50%
0.09542725 Italy_Imperial.SG:R49.SG__AD_200__Cov_77.08%

[Kostek]

Target: Kostek_scaled
Distance: 2.3783% / 0.02378288
80.2 ProtoSlavic?Denmark_Jutland_PreRoman_IA:CGG106486_ CGG106491__BC_202__Cov_67.50%
8.0 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_1_brother.CL1 46_son.CL151.AG:CL145.AG__AD_605__Cov_72.84%
6.6 Italy_Imperial_oAnatoliaCaucasus.SG:R67.SG__AD_200 __Cov_86.02%
5.2 Italy_North_EarlyMedieval_Langobards_2.AG:CL47.AG_ _AD_605__Cov_69.01%