Worst battle defeat in European and Western history?

[Ianus]

The battle of Alcazaquivir in 1578

[Böri]

If we talk about Western (European) history, defeats of Russians or Byzantines can't be considered. Those are Orthodox, Eastern, non-European states. Even old Romans are questionnable. Constantinople fell first time ever to Europeans in 1204, 60 years later Byzantines recovered however in reality they never recovered from the blow.

Now back at the question's answer: Guadalete in 711 where Tariq and his handful defeated the numerous Germanic Visigoths was probably the most crushing defeat ever in all European history. It was on European soil and where European numerically superior power is defeated, with a legacy that lasted 800 years. Germans are defeated by Arabs. Wow! Tariq's name will live as long as world lives for a reason.



Bataan, Nicopolis, Varna etc didn't happen on European soil and Europeans weren't the defender side in any. Guadalete is unique in that sense.

After 711 Guadalete, the 1944-1945 invasion of Eastern Germany and Prussia by Orthodox-Soviets come second ever most crushing European defeat in history.

[Böri]

So the Sit River battle where Mongols led by Batu Khan obliterated Russians shouldn't be listed.
However, the battles that made Russians take Prussia from Germans should be in the list

[brennus dux gallorum]

All of them are equally worst, as in all cases except of Japanese there was an inferior group (inferior from every aspect) defeating the west

[Böri]

In modern era, loss of East Prussia and Kaliningrad to Orthodox-Communist led Red Army forces were the heaviest European defeats against non-European forces.



LoL. İt would make more sense to remember this than listing Mongol victory against Russians

[Scar]

I agree with the Turk that Russian, Byzantine and even ancient Roman defeats shouldn't be counted as Western/European defeats.

I agree that Visigothic defeat against Moors was very humiliating too.

[brennus dux gallorum]

I agree with the Turk that Russian, Byzantine and even ancient Roman defeats shouldn't be counted as Western/European defeats.

I agree that Visigothic defeat against Moors was very humiliating too.

Dude why exactly should any European care about the opinion of any non-European about who is European and who is not? Especially when it comes for common logic?

[Mingle]

Surely, the Russo-Japanese War should be up here?

First time in the modern era that an Asian country defeated a white empire in open war, and changed the whole idea that "this is a white man's world".

I wouldn't say so. Russia had to travel thousands of kilometers away just to get to the battle field.

Also, the Ottomans beat Russia in the 18th century (though it's arguable if you consider that part of the modern era).

[Cristiano viejo]

Now back at the question's answer: Guadalete in 711 where Tariq and his handful defeated the numerous Germanic Visigoths was probably the most crushing defeat ever in all European history. It was on European soil and where European numerically superior power is defeated, with a legacy that lasted 800 years. [/B]

A part of the Visigoths betrayed their king and passed to fight against him in the battle. That was the decisive move to win the battle. There was not an European numerically superior power.

And its legacy lasted 800 years only in Granada (the last 250 because they were vassals of Castilla and paid a tribute).

[Mingle]

In the Formosa Expedition, spear-chucking primitive Taiwanese aboriginals defeated a group of American marines and sailors (though it was a tiny battle with only one death so maybe it shouldn't count).

In the Battle of Isandlwana, spear-chucking primitive Zulus defeated the British. I think this should be number one.