are English people pure Anglo-Saxon ?

[Grace O'Malley]

Today the average UK resident is: 36.94% British (Anglo Saxon) 21.59% Irish (Celtic) 19.91% Western European (France/Germany).

I believe there are two German genetic clusters one northern and the other southern and the southern one is similar to the French e.g. I have ancestry from Alsace-Lorraine.

That's from using Ancestry's outdated categories i.e. they call Celtic the Irish/Scottish category and the Anglo-Saxon England/Wales/Northwestern Europe. Not very accurate or scientific. All these populations are very close and even modelling with G25 it is very difficult to differentiate them as most people on this thread are aware of. Even scientific papers using their Finescale and Admixture breakdowns have difficulty.

It will be interesting to see what future studies come up when they use more ancient genomes.

This is my distance to the Anglo-Saxon average using the Checkfit.

England_Saxon:Average Custom AGUser_Grace 1.93

These are the closest populations.

1 England_Saxon:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.486
2 England_Saxon:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.488
7 England_Saxon:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.828
9 England_Saxon:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.836
10 England_Saxon:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
21 England_Saxon:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 2.01
23 England_Saxon:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.018
32 England_Saxon:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.073
36 England_Saxon:Average English_Averaged Averaged 2.112
39 England_Saxon:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 2.138
67 England_Saxon:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.394
73 England_Saxon:Average French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 2.452

So what's going on here?

[JamesBond007]

That's from using Ancestry's outdated categories i.e. they call Celtic the Irish/Scottish category and the Anglo-Saxon England/Wales/Northwestern Europe. Not very accurate or scientific. All these populations are very close and even modelling with G25 it is very difficult to differentiate them as most people on this thread are aware of. Even scientific papers using their Finescale and Admixture breakdowns have difficulty.

It will be interesting to see what future studies come up when they use more ancient genomes.

This is my distance to the Anglo-Saxon average using the Checkfit.

England_Saxon:Average Custom AGUser_Grace 1.93

These are the closest populations.

1 England_Saxon:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.486
2 England_Saxon:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.488
7 England_Saxon:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.828
9 England_Saxon:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.836
10 England_Saxon:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
21 England_Saxon:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 2.01
23 England_Saxon:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.018
32 England_Saxon:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.073
36 England_Saxon:Average English_Averaged Averaged 2.112
39 England_Saxon:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 2.138
67 England_Saxon:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.394
73 England_Saxon:Average French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 2.452

So what's going on here?

Either you are a plastic paddy or most modern Irish people are plastic paddies who are really lowland Scottish with a slight pull towards Tudor Era England/Scotland e.g. Mary Queen of Scots.

Populations are always in flux and for an severely historically oppressed group, like the Irish, with a history of many invasions e.g. the Normans and multiple plantation schemes going on in ancient times before even the Ulster plantation plus the Irish potato holocaust there is no reason for me to believe the modern Irish are 'celts' anymore then the Scottish are really 'celts'.

[JamesBond007]

That's from using Ancestry's outdated categories i.e. they call Celtic the Irish/Scottish category and the Anglo-Saxon England/Wales/Northwestern Europe. Not very accurate or scientific. All these populations are very close and even modelling with G25 it is very difficult to differentiate them as most people on this thread are aware of. Even scientific papers using their Finescale and Admixture breakdowns have difficulty.

It will be interesting to see what future studies come up when they use more ancient genomes.

This is my distance to the Anglo-Saxon average using the Checkfit.

England_Saxon:Average Custom AGUser_Grace 1.93

These are the closest populations.

1 England_Saxon:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.486
2 England_Saxon:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.488
7 England_Saxon:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.828
9 England_Saxon:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.836
10 England_Saxon:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
21 England_Saxon:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 2.01
23 England_Saxon:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.018
32 England_Saxon:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.073
36 England_Saxon:Average English_Averaged Averaged 2.112
39 England_Saxon:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 2.138
67 England_Saxon:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.394
73 England_Saxon:Average French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 2.452

So what's going on here?

It is not really outdated as the human genome project was finished many years ago and Britain and Ireland has enjoyed having many more samples than other places in Europe for a long time now.

Let us think about this mathematically AncestryDNA said the average U.K. resident is 36.x percent Anglo-Saxon but since the English make up the vast majority of the population of the U.K. the number is really 38% only slightly moved down to 36.x percent by the Scots and Welsh. So it is really not outdated at all :

Abstract

British population history has been shaped by a series of immigrations, including the early Anglo-Saxon migrations after 400 CE. It remains an open question how these events affected the genetic composition of the current British population. Here, we present whole-genome sequences from 10 individuals excavated close to Cambridge in the East of England, ranging from the late Iron Age to the middle Anglo-Saxon period. By analysing shared rare variants with hundreds of modern samples from Britain and Europe, we estimate that on average the contemporary East English population derives 38% of its ancestry from Anglo-Saxon migrations. We gain further insight with a new method, rarecoal, which infers population history and identifies fine-scale genetic ancestry from rare variants. Using rarecoal we find that the Anglo-Saxon samples are closely related to modern Dutch and Danish populations, while the Iron Age samples share ancestors with multiple Northern European populations including Britain.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10408

[JamesBond007]

That's from using Ancestry's outdated categories i.e. they call Celtic the Irish/Scottish category and the Anglo-Saxon England/Wales/Northwestern Europe. Not very accurate or scientific. All these populations are very close and even modelling with G25 it is very difficult to differentiate them as most people on this thread are aware of. Even scientific papers using their Finescale and Admixture breakdowns have difficulty.

It will be interesting to see what future studies come up when they use more ancient genomes.

This is my distance to the Anglo-Saxon average using the Checkfit.

England_Saxon:Average Custom AGUser_Grace 1.93

These are the closest populations.

1 England_Saxon:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.486
2 England_Saxon:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.488
7 England_Saxon:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.828
9 England_Saxon:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.836
10 England_Saxon:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
21 England_Saxon:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 2.01
23 England_Saxon:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.018
32 England_Saxon:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.073
36 England_Saxon:Average English_Averaged Averaged 2.112
39 England_Saxon:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 2.138
67 England_Saxon:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.394
73 England_Saxon:Average French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 2.452

So what's going on here?

I don't understand what your point is here I have an extremely Irish hiberno-Norman sounding name and here are my results if I model myself after 100% Anglo-Saxon it is not a far fit it is actually pretty close :

Target: Kevin_scaled

Distance: 2.4254% / 0.02425413
100.0 England_Saxon

In primitive societies they eat each other and in advanced societies they deceive each other. So much for my 'Irish' name.

As far as Norwegians are concerned Norwegian Tronders and Anglo-Saxons are extremely closely related.

[Grace O'Malley]

Either you are a plastic paddy or most modern Irish people are plastic paddies who are really lowland Scottish with a slight pull towards Tudor Era England/Scotland e.g. Mary Queen of Scots.

Populations are always in flux and for an severely historically oppressed group, like the Irish, with a history of many invasions e.g. the Normans and multiple plantation schemes going on in ancient times before even the Ulster plantation plus the Irish potato holocaust there is no reason for me to believe the modern Irish are 'celts' anymore then the Scottish are really 'celts'.

Why are Irish closer to those Saxon samples than the English though? Celts are not really a genetic group. Insular Celts are much the same as other populations in their geographic region. The people in the Isles just descend from much the same populations. It's not really that complicated is it?

There are a couple of studies coming out on the Irish by Dr Lara Cassidy. One should be available for the general public in May next year hopefully. She will be looking at ancient genomes from every period in Irish history. The second paper has late Bronze Age, Early and Late Medieval samples so that should explain how much Viking, Norman, Saxon etc input into the Irish. If you look at Rathlin though they are very northern shifted. Basically the Irish have always been a Northwestern European population which shouldn't come as a shock to people because why would they be different than other populations in that area?

[Grace O'Malley]

I don't understand what your point is here I have an extremely Irish hiberno-Norman sounding name and here are my results if I model myself after 100% Anglo-Saxon it is not a far fit it is actually pretty close :

Target: Kevin_scaled

Distance: 2.4254% / 0.02425413
100.0 England_Saxon

In primitive societies they eat each other and in advanced societies they deceive each other. So much for my 'Irish' name.

As far as Norwegians are concerned Norwegian Tronders and Anglo-Saxons are extremely closely related.

No point modelling your self 100%. I'd be 100% also but at a closer distance.

"sample": "Custom:AGUser_Grace",
"fit": 1.5772,
"England_Saxon": 100,

[JamesBond007]

Why are Irish closer to those Saxon samples than the English though? Celts are not really a genetic group. Insular Celts are much the same as other populations in their geographic region. The people in the Isles just descend from much the same populations. It's not really that complicated is it?

There are a couple of studies coming out on the Irish by Dr Lara Cassidy. One should be available for the general public in May next year hopefully. She will be looking at ancient genomes from every period in Irish history. The second paper has late Bronze Age, Early and Late Medieval samples so that should explain how much Viking, Norman, Saxon etc input into the Irish. If you look at Rathlin though they are very northern shifted. Basically the Irish have always been a Northwestern European population which shouldn't come as a shock to people because why would they be different than other populations in that area?

Maybe your calculations are wrong because these calculators are made my amateurs ?

[Grace O'Malley]

Maybe your calculations are wrong because these calculators are made my amateurs ?

I don't do the calculations. Also there are many other people who you can compare to and see what I get. If it's wrong for me it is wrong for you and all the other people also.

[JamesBond007]

I don't do the calculations. Also there are many other people who you can compare to and see what I get. If it's wrong for me it is wrong for you and all the other people also.

I know what you mean.

[Sandman]

This is no surprise for me. Walking around Krakow I can easily distinguish British tourists from tourists from Scandinavia and Germany.