Tax register from 1452 for the South-West of Kosovo

[Varda]

Interesting.

But I don't see the point in calling them Bosniaks then? Why don't they/people just call them islamized serbs etc.?

Alija Izetbegović was declared muslim Serb until 1971. Later he changed view and in 1993. he proclaimed Bosniak nation together with Muhamed Filipović. From 1971. to 1993. Slavic speaking muslims in Yugoslavia officially were Muslims (with big M) in ethnic sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_(ethnic_group)

[Tani]

Opolje in 1452 I saw only one village mentioned so far, it had an Albanian majority, two Albanian names, one Slavic (possibly Albanian too). Same area had Albanian majority in 16th century too. Even more apparent.


It becomes even more apparent that those areas had Albanian majority in 16th-17th century, just look at tax registers from that time period or countless writers and travelers that mentioned many of these areas inhabited by Albanians.

[Tani]

It shouldn't surprise anyone if extremists make ridiculous claims. You kind of learn that after having listened to what they say, but at your own expense.

Indeed they are extremists, they supposedly claim there were no Albanians there until Ottoman occupation then suddenly later Albanians came raining down from the mountains at the hands of the Ottomans supposedly. Many of their so called historians like Lutovac, Jagodic, Batakovic (one hell of an extremist) have repeated this and their ''arguments'' have even been repeated in western literature. It actually shows Albanians were already there and mingled with the Slavs. Then demographics went in favor of Albanians again. This is also accepted by every rational historian like Malcolm, Ducellier, MacShane etc.

[Atlantic Reptilian]

Alija Izetbegović was declared muslim Serb until 1971. Later he changed view and in 1993. he proclaimed Bosniak nation together with Muhamed Filipović. From 1971. to 1993. Slavic speaking muslims in Yugoslavia officially were Muslims (with big M) in ethnic sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_(ethnic_group)

That's interesting because my relatives picked "Yugoslav" as ethnicity (because religious practice wasn't allowed during Tito regime). The only ones who picked other ethnicity (Croat) at some point was if there was a risk of Ustasha finding out they are actually Bosniaks, so they didn't talk too much about their real ethnicity and tried to be discrete about it.

Then it makes sense how it all got conflated. I personally never liked the ethnic distinction "Muslim" (in Bosnia) because it's a bit ambiguous. It's more clear to say Bosniak, Muslim Serb etc., since it refers to the region the person comes from (just like Bosnian Serbs are from Bosnia etc.).

Indeed they are extremists, they supposedly claim there were no Albanians there until Ottoman occupation then suddenly later Albanians came raining down from the mountains at the hands of the Ottomans supposedly. Many of their so called historians like Lutovac, Jagodic, Batakovic (one hell of an extremist) have repeated this and their ''arguments'' have even been repeated in western literature. It actually shows Albanians were already there and mingled with the Slavs. Then demographics went in favor of Albanians again. This is also accepted by every rational historian like Malcolm, Ducellier, MacShane etc.

Agreed. Some people are very good at propagating information. You sort of have to stop and start with the first claim. If you do that and realize it doesn't hold, obviously their reputation will go down the drain, and why should anyone take them seriously at that point? They are just the religious fanatic equivalent in the Balkans

[Dušan]

Some of the areas the tax register covered and that had significant / majority Albanian population

You do realise that these two micro-regions, where you found few Albanian names among Serbian, are only 4.4% territory of Kosovo province.

Opolje had an area of ca. 108 km2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opolje

Hasi has an area of 371 kilometers square

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Has_(region)

371 + 108 = 479 km2 out of total 10,887 km2 -> 4.4% territory of Kosovo & Metohija province.


It is completely negligible and irrelevant.

[rothaer]

You do realise that these two micro-regions, where you found few Albanian names among Serbian, are only 4.4% territory of Kosovo province.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opolje


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Has_(region)

371 + 108 = 479 km2 out of total 10,887 km2 -> 4.4% territory of Kosovo & Metohija province.


It is completely negligible and irrelevant.

On the other hand in a German tax register essentially no Albanian would show up in spite of that there are hundreds of thousands. So if one Albanian is showing up in a tax register there must bei 100 of them (figuratively).

Registers with other topics than positive contributions would be more enlightening (...).

[Atlantic Reptilian]

You do realise that these two micro-regions, where you found few Albanian names among Serbian, are only 4.4% territory of Kosovo province.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opolje


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Has_(region)

371 + 108 = 479 km2 out of total 10,887 km2 -> 4.4% territory of Kosovo & Metohija province.


It is completely negligible and irrelevant.

Whether it is relevant or not depends on how much other info there is. 479 square kilometers is better than 0 square kilometers.

[Dušan]

Whether it is relevant or not depends on how much other info there is. 479 square kilometers is better than 0 square kilometers.

Big difference indeed.
Albanians were not 0%, but some 2% of total population of todays Kosovo province in 15th century.

[Atlantic Reptilian]

Big difference indeed.
Albanians were not 0%, but some 2% of total population of todays Kosovo province in 15th century.

Would you mind sharing the data that proves that? It would be beneficial for this discussion

[Tani]

Part of Kosovo definitely had an Albanian majority before the Ottomans even took over that place.

Tax register in Kosovo from Opolje in 1452 shows the native inhabitants were Albanians.


Yet they claim the Albanians in Opoje are supposed to be immigrants from Northern Albania.

Every single village around the town of Prizren in Kosovo was Albanian in 1452 also whe the Ottomans took over such as Kojushe, Mazrek, Zym, Planeje, Gorozhub, Milaj etc, these are some of the villages in that part of Kosovo I could identify that still exist today. And this is only villages that carried Albanian+Christian names. I'm not counting the countless Albanian houses in Kosovo that could of had Slavic names. Town of Prizren was described as inhabited by Albanians in 16th century.


I'm not gonna start with tax registers on the Gjakova area in Kosovo too which had a native Albanian population to entirely debunk these idiots.
Tax registers that show countless native Albanian villages across Western Kosovo.