BBC Report: Inside Europe's last leprosy colony ( Romania )

[Grishnack]

On December 1918. there were not A-H Empire, only 1,2M men died (16% is one of the lowest ratio in the WW1) Wounded category included graze of skin, legs are only shattered, It can mean anything even the loss of leg. Everybody who attended a doctor during his front-line service were registered. The technical POWs who became pows only after political decisions and after the armistice are not the same as POWS during wartime. (Yes you can include them into the statistics, but political decisions are not military operations)

Military Deaths in the Italian Front: 650,000 men, A-H army military death in Italian front: 240,000 men only.

Your biggest problem, that you confused the real Wartime statistics, and the statistics which was created after the armistice (caused by political decision after the integral disintegration of the Empire).

Did you even read that? That second statistic is from MAY 1918, before the war ended and it was already fucked up.

[Stears]

Did you even read that? That statistic is from MAY 1918, before the war ended. If you add those who died after May it gets only worse.

QUOTE: "The U.K. War Office estimate for Austro-Hungarian casualties up to 31 December 1918:"

[Grishnack]

QUOTE: "The U.K. War Office estimate for Austro-Hungarian casualties up to 31 December 1918:"

You're right, I made a mistake, but that doesn't change the fact that the AH army had the largest percentage of casualties in the WHOLE WAR. Every statistic says it, you just don't wanna believe it.

[Stears]

You're right, I made a mistake, but that doesn't change the fact that the AH army had the largest percentage of casualties in the WHOLE WAR. Every statistic says it, you just don't wanna believe it.

Wrong, you try to combine all statistics, for example: POWs of political decisions, who became POWS only after the war, with real pows. After the dissolution of A-H Empire and the armistice, The forming yugoslav state the newly established Hungarian rep. The Austrian rep the forming Czehoslovak political leaders called back home their people, and asked them to stop any military activity. (Even the formerly existing A-H leaders ordered that after they signed armistice) Most of them were registered by the Italian Entente as POWS (because they can became pows even without military conflict according to international law) . Others, who did not want to go to this registering camps and lay down their arms, whent home, they denied to follow the order of their newly proclamed states and the A-H military leadership who signed the armistice, they would had to assemble after the registration (without weapons), they were considered technically deserters too. (It was illegal to return home with weapons from the Italian front, but their number was enormous too)

The only statistics what really matters, and what are not related to political decisions and post war era: The A-H Army had much lower military death ratio then the French army Italian army Russian or Romanian army.

[Grishnack]

Wrong, you try to combine all statistics, for example: POWs of political decisions, who became POWS only after the war, with real pows. After the dissolution of A-H Empire and the armistice, The forming yugoslav state the newly established Hungarian rep. The Austrian rep the forming Czehoslovak political leaders called back home their people, and asked them to stop any military activity. (Even the formerly existing A-H leaders ordered that after they signed armistice) Most of them were registered by the Italian Entente as POWS (because they can became pows even without military conflict according to international law) . Others, who did not want to go to this registering camps and lay down their arms, whent home, they denied to follow the order of their newly proclamed states and the A-H military leadership who signed the armistice, they would had to assemble after the registration (without weapons), they were considered technically deserters too. (It was illegal to return home with weapons from the Italian front, but their number was enormous too)

The only statistics what really matters, and what are not related to political decisions and post war era: The A-H Army had much lower military death ratio then the French army Italian army Russian or Romanian army.

I understand what you're trying to say but it's just not right. Those statistics don't combine what you just said.

May: 1,800,000 POWs. + 400,000 prisoners captured on the Italian front during their last offensive = 2,000,000 POWs. Those who became POWs after the war are not counted in this statistic.

[Zmey Gorynych]

Posada, Baia, 1919.

[Stears]

I understand what you're trying to say but it's just not right. Those statistics don't combine what you just said.

May: 1,800,000 POWs. + 400,000 prisoners captured on the Italian front during their last offensive = 2,000,000 POWs. Those who became POWs after the war are not counted in this statistic.

Yes, according to international law, the former soldiers who became prisoners (voluntarily) after the armistice and , because their state cease to exist or dissolved (like A-H Empire) are considered prisoners of Wars too. Remember the last battles of the A-H Army was fough without any political support , without any help of their newly formed governments for (and in the name) a non-existent state. So they did not have any political support , therefor they did not get ammunition and food. (There was not any state behind the army) Soldiers had two decisions: 1st. Go to the Italian entente camps register themselves passes their handguns and get some food. They became technically (and legally) prisoner of war after the registration. Second option, go home with their handgun to their village and city, because they though the homeland is very chaotic with revolutions and danger... They technically became deserters, (they did not fulfil their duty of registration, but their number is enormous, they became force at home, nobody could count down with them at home because of the desertation. So they did not care about it. Maybe at home they gave their weapons of their new state, or they could hide it in their house/flat for their imagined safety. Third option: Fight without ammunition and without food (the certain death) for a non-existent empire. This became less and less a real option for former A-H soldiers after the dissolution of the Empire.


The situation is legally diplomatically was very complex, it is a rare moment in history when a state (not just a government or political power of a country) ceased to be exist before the end of the WW1. It was an unprecedented historic and very chaotic event. It was even more serious then Russian WW1 history, where the communist saved 88% of the territory former russian Empire and its population when they formed the soviet union.

[Deymark]

bla bla bla bla bla

In Romanian-Hungarian war, the number of soldiers on both sides was close to equal.End of deal, the rest is just your jealous barking that Romania ended up a winner with the highest territorial gains and Hungary a loser, with the highest territorial loses.

[Grishnack]

Yes, according to international law, the former soldiers who became prisoners (voluntarily) after the armistice and , because their state cease to exist or dissolved (like A-H Empire) are considered prisoners of Wars too. Remember the last battles of the A-H Army was fough without any political support , without any help of their newly formed governments for (and in the name) a non-existent state. So they did not have any political support , therefor they did not get ammunition and food. (There was not any state behind the army) Soldiers had two decisions: 1st. Go to the Italian entente camps register themselves passes their handguns and get some food. They became technically (and legally) prisoner of war after the registration. Second option, go home with their handgun to their village and city, because they though the homeland is very chaotic with revolutions and danger... They technically became deserters, (they did not fulfil their duty of registration, but their number is enormous, they became force at home, nobody could count down with them at home because of the desertation. So they did not care about it. Maybe at home they gave their weapons of their new state, or they could hide it in their house/flat for their imagined safety. Third option: Fight without ammunition and without food (the certain death) for a non-existent empire. This became less and less a real option for former A-H soldiers after the dissolution of the Empire.


The situation is legally diplomatically was very complex, it is a rare moment in history when a state (not just a government or political power of a country) ceased to be exist before the end of the WW1. It was an unprecedented and chaotic event.

As I said, I understand what you're trying to say and I agree with the fact that late-1918 AH army was in a mess but that still doesn't change the fact that the AH was the weakest link in the Central Powers. Don't get me wrong, the Romanian Army was awful at the start of the war (very weak officer corps and very badly trained and equipped) but the Austro-Hungarians were on a whole other level of incompetence, and not because of the common soldiers but because of the abysmal lack of military skills of its leaders. Take for example the Winter Offensive of 1915 in the Carpathians.

starts at around 2:02

It's time for you to acknowledge the fact that the AH army was shit-tier.

[Stears]

In Romanian-Hungarian war, the number of soldiers on both sides was close to equal.End of deal, the rest is just your jealous barking that Romania ended up a winner with the highest territorial gains and Hungary a loser, with the highest territorial loses.

There were not Romanian-Hungarian war. There were a war betweeen Serbo-French Czechoslovak and romanian forces, they attacked the self-disarmed Hungary, went to the Tisza river (60km from Budapest) without a single battle. Then Bela Kun came to power.