Szekely people are genetically close to romanians or hungarians?

**Leto** · 12-11-2019, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Kökény

Im a Székely(100%). If any of you still interested, I can post my gedmatch results.

Hi,
Is Dodecad K12b good for you? It's okay for Hungarians from what I've seen.

**Kökény** · 12-11-2019, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

Hi,
Is Dodecad K12b good for you? It's okay for Hungarians from what I've seen.

Hi!
I didn't try it before, so I don't know if it's good or bad.
Heres what I got.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 36.52
2 Atlantic_Med 26.01
3 Caucasus 18.83
4 Gedrosia 6.15
5 Southwest_Asian 5.33
6 Siberian 2.53
7 East_Asian 1.52
8 South_Asian 1.38
9 Northwest_African 1.3
10 Southeast_Asian 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanians (Behar) 9.55
2 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 11.09
3 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 11.76
4 Hungarians (Behar) 11.89
5 German (Dodecad) 15.72
6 O_Italian (Dodecad) 17.97
7 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 18.88
8 N_Italian (Dodecad) 19.04
9 French (Dodecad) 19.78
10 French (HGDP) 20.09
11 Dutch (Dodecad) 20.44
12 TSI30 (Metspalu) 21.96
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 22.08
14 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.33
15 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.51
16 Tuscan (HGDP) 22.62
17 English (Dodecad) 22.68
18 Greek (Dodecad) 23.14
19 C_Italian (Dodecad) 23.39
20 British_Isles (Dodecad) 23.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 30.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.45
2 64% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 36% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.47
3 70.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 29.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.73
4 57.9% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 42.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.89
5 62.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.97
6 59.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 40.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.99
7 75.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.1% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 4.06
8 63.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 4.09
9 58.4% Tuscan (HGDP) + 41.6% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.22
10 53.2% Swedish (Dodecad) + 46.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.24
11 71.2% German (Dodecad) + 28.8% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.25
12 62.3% Swedish (Dodecad) + 37.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 4.28
13 72.1% German (Dodecad) + 27.9% Turks (Behar) @ 4.31
14 75.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 4.34
15 59.6% Swedish (Dodecad) + 40.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.36
16 59.3% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 40.7% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.4
17 57.2% Tuscan (HGDP) + 42.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 4.41
18 75.9% German (Dodecad) + 24.1% Druze (HGDP) @ 4.43
19 64.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 4.44
20 57.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 42.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.46

**Turul Karom** · 12-12-2019, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kökény

Hi!
I didn't try it before, so I don't know if it's good or bad.
Heres what I got.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 36.52
2 Atlantic_Med 26.01
3 Caucasus 18.83
4 Gedrosia 6.15
5 Southwest_Asian 5.33
6 Siberian 2.53
7 East_Asian 1.52
8 South_Asian 1.38
9 Northwest_African 1.3
10 Southeast_Asian 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanians (Behar) 9.55
2 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 11.09
3 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 11.76
4 Hungarians (Behar) 11.89
5 German (Dodecad) 15.72
6 O_Italian (Dodecad) 17.97
7 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 18.88
8 N_Italian (Dodecad) 19.04
9 French (Dodecad) 19.78
10 French (HGDP) 20.09
11 Dutch (Dodecad) 20.44
12 TSI30 (Metspalu) 21.96
13 North_Italian (HGDP) 22.08
14 Kent (1000Genomes) 22.33
15 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 22.51
16 Tuscan (HGDP) 22.62
17 English (Dodecad) 22.68
18 Greek (Dodecad) 23.14
19 C_Italian (Dodecad) 23.39
20 British_Isles (Dodecad) 23.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 30.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 3.45
2 64% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 36% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.47
3 70.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 29.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 3.73
4 57.9% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 42.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.89
5 62.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.97
6 59.2% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 40.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 3.99
7 75.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.1% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 4.06
8 63.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 4.09
9 58.4% Tuscan (HGDP) + 41.6% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.22
10 53.2% Swedish (Dodecad) + 46.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.24
11 71.2% German (Dodecad) + 28.8% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.25
12 62.3% Swedish (Dodecad) + 37.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 4.28
13 72.1% German (Dodecad) + 27.9% Turks (Behar) @ 4.31
14 75.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 24.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 4.34
15 59.6% Swedish (Dodecad) + 40.4% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.36
16 59.3% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 40.7% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.4
17 57.2% Tuscan (HGDP) + 42.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 4.41
18 75.9% German (Dodecad) + 24.1% Druze (HGDP) @ 4.43
19 64.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 4.44
20 57.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 42.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 4.46

I'm skeptical of this one a bit because the numbers are so far away from 0 for you, especially Hungarian. I believe that your other calculators are better.

**Turul Karom** · 12-12-2019, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Feiichy

There is no proof Hungarians are language switchers from Turkic whatsoever. All linguistic evidence point to Ugric base of Hungarian and other influences came later.
On that map Ugric homeland is the starting point, the source.

That's not really what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that what could have happened is that the majority Turkic speakers were outnumbered as Ugric dominated from the women (and whatever men) passed it onto their children. This happened quickly because the Hungarians were moving west at this time after the Göktürk emprie collapsed. Ügyek is the same name as the last Uyghur Khagan for example and by this time their influence has also waned.

I wanted to repeat this because I believe it is the most interesting question, assuming the current idea of the language (and only language, not talking about genetics) is correct:

If we are going to say that there was a fusion, and not a language shift during migration and acquiring of new tribesmen and women (which is my theory instead of only Turkics as part of elite), then where did the Turkic element come from to gain the Hungarian identity as well? If they did not see themselves as superior to the non-Turkics they conquered/ruled/etc based on ethnicity, then how could this Turkic elite be any different from the masses?

They would be the arbiters of Hungarian identity.

This is why I almost feel like the language of the elite speakers is almost a non-issue if they were Turkic in every other way and were elected to lead the entire Magyar tribes. The fact they were elected "from their own" (meaning fellow Magyars) and specifically not from a Khazar royal family illustrates the implications of this, if the leadership was Turkic, and the Magyars elected from their own, then the tribes at this point must have been predominantly.....

Also I understand your map and blogen. I'm not saying Ugric speakers aren't involved in this or DNA ethnogenesis. What I'm saying is, if we follow this presentation of facts, there were no "Magyar tribes" and certainly no Central Magyar unity before the Turkic leadership (with tested DNA now) made it so. Just groups of Ugrics and Turkics and do on. That's the important piece to this. Does it make sense?

**Leto** · 12-12-2019, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Turul Karom

I'm skeptical of this one a bit because the numbers are so far away from 0 for you, especially Hungarian. I believe that your other calculators are better.

Can you please post your own K12b results?

**Turul Karom** · 12-12-2019, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

Can you please post your own K12b results?

It's in my gedmatch thread.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...karom+gedmatch

**Leto** · 12-12-2019, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Turul Karom

It's in my gedmatch thread.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...karom+gedmatch

No K12b though. Okay, whatever.

**Turul Karom** · 12-12-2019, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

No K12b though. Okay, whatever.

Really?

Alright. I can just post again.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 44.38
2 Atlantic_Med 28.39
3 Caucasus 15.76
4 Gedrosia 7.45
5 Southwest_Asian 2.65
6 Southeast_Asian 0.58
7 Siberian 0.49
8 Northwest_African 0.3
9 East_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 5.06
2 German (Dodecad) 7.76
3 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 13.08
4 Dutch (Dodecad) 14.31
5 Romanians (Behar) 15.02
6 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 16.87
7 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 16.9
8 Kent (1000Genomes) 16.97
9 English (Dodecad) 17.09
10 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 17.31
11 French (Dodecad) 17.46
12 Swedish (Dodecad) 17.81
13 French (HGDP) 17.87
14 British_Isles (Dodecad) 18.15
15 Norwegian (Dodecad) 18.43
16 Argyll (1000Genomes) 18.97
17 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 19.43
18 Orkney (1000Genomes) 19.43
19 British (Dodecad) 19.53
20 Orcadian (HGDP) 19.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87% German (Dodecad) + 13% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 1.67
2 87.2% German (Dodecad) + 12.8% North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.69
3 86.9% German (Dodecad) + 13.1% Adygei (HGDP) @ 1.75
4 89.4% German (Dodecad) + 10.6% Abhkasians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.9
5 89.9% German (Dodecad) + 10.1% Georgians (Behar) @ 2.01
6 85.6% German (Dodecad) + 14.4% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.02
7 86.4% German (Dodecad) + 13.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 2.15
8 52.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 47.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.21
9 69.3% German (Dodecad) + 30.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.29
10 76.4% Swedish (Dodecad) + 23.6% Armenians (Behar) @ 2.37
11 88.6% German (Dodecad) + 11.4% Armenians (Behar) @ 2.42
12 51.3% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 48.7% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.44
13 66.8% German (Dodecad) + 33.2% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.47
14 86.4% German (Dodecad) + 13.6% Turks (Behar) @ 2.5
15 88.5% German (Dodecad) + 11.5% Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) @ 2.58
16 86.1% German (Dodecad) + 13.9% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 2.59
17 55.2% Romanians (Behar) + 44.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.59
18 88.5% German (Dodecad) + 11.5% Armenian (Dodecad) @ 2.66
19 88.5% German (Dodecad) + 11.5% Georgia_Jews (Behar) @ 2.67
20 54.4% Romanians (Behar) + 45.6% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.72

**Leto** · 12-13-2019, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Turul Karom

# Population Percent
1 North_European 44.38
2 Atlantic_Med 28.39
3 Caucasus 15.76
4 Gedrosia 7.45
5 Southwest_Asian 2.65
6 Southeast_Asian 0.58
7 Siberian 0.49
8 Northwest_African 0.3
9 East_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 5.06

I'm not trying to troll or anything but you are completely European, potentially only around 1% East Eurasian. That's virtually nothing. I score around 5.6% on K12b for example (5 times higher). You personally are just about as Turkic as Gagauz people but unlike Hungarians they actually do speak Oghuz. I mean seriously you live in Central Europe, you speak Ugric, you are culturally Roman Catholic (you may not practice or believe in Christ but that doesn't matter, many Jews don't practice Judaism either for instance). Do you really think you share a lot with Turkey, Uzbekistan, Uyghurs or any other Central Asian nation?

**Turul Karom** · 12-13-2019, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

I'm not trying to troll or anything but you are completely European, potentially only around 1% East Eurasian. That's virtually nothing. I score around 5.6% on K12b for example (5 times higher). You personally are just about as Turkic as Gagauz people but unlike Hungarians they actually do speak Oghuz. I mean seriously you live in Central Europe, you speak Ugric, you are culturally Roman Catholic (you may not practice or believe in Christ but that doesn't matter, many Jews don't practice Judaism either for instance). Do you really think you share a lot with Turkey, Uzbekistan, Uyghurs or any other Central Asian nation?

Lol, wow where did all of that come from?

When did I ever say that I was a high East Eurasian percentage? Why does this calculator mean so much to you in particular? Do you not hold others in high regard at all?

Also the language things again? Pretty hilarious. So if I fluently speak Japanese then am I Japanese too? What if I was born there? What if I told you I know Turkish Gagauz dialect too, does that make me Turkic? Only when talking about Hungarians will people twist their spines to snapping before admitting their ancestral roots.

And no, I don't think you're trolling. I just think you've been misled about my beliefs and didn't take the time to ask them. Don't pull the same thing Blondie does and put words in my mouth that I say Hungarians are all some "east Asian Mongoloid" group or that I see myself as not "European" in the historical sense (despite Europe frequently not seeing us as the same).