Chetniks of Macedonia

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Crn Volk; 6475372] Не с украинската църква не беше така. Черногорската и македонската църкви желаят да следват примера на украинската църква. Изглежда, че ще се случи. [/ ЦИТОВЕ]
Yes, the synod of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in 2017 acknowledged this, but an autonomous church needs a universal Orthodox council at which all Orthodox churches recognize and accept it.

[Crn Volk]

[QUOTE = Crn Volk; 6475372] Не с украинската църква не беше така. Черногорската и македонската църкви желаят да следват примера на украинската църква. Изглежда, че ще се случи. [/ ЦИТОВЕ]
Yes, the synod of the Macedonian Orthodox Church in 2017 acknowledged this, but an autonomous church needs a universal Orthodox council at which all Orthodox churches recognize and accept it.

And that is the problem. The Serbs will never relinquish the Macedonian and Montenegrin churches and the rest of orthodoxy backs them either directly or indirectly due to the rules you have outlined. As a result the MOC will eventually need to finally consider the below which was touted in the 19th century

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.ph...e_view_desktop

[MegaArgus1]

And that is the problem. The Serbs will never relinquish the Macedonian and Montenegrin churches and the rest of orthodoxy backs them either directly or indirectly due to the rules you have outlined. As a result the MOC will eventually need to finally consider the below which was touted in the 19th century

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.ph...e_view_desktop

I always advocated that we should be converted in Catholics. Catholic Church cares about Christianity while Orthodox cares about........................

[catgeorge]

I always advocated that we should be converted in Catholics. Catholic Church cares about Christianity while Orthodox cares about........................

We only care for Constantinople majority of you guys are just politically Christian anyway thanks to your Bolshevik communist Marxist mentality. So who cares.

[MegaArgus1]

We only care for Constantinople majority of you guys are just politically Christian anyway thanks to your Bolshevik communist Marxist mentality. So who cares.

Orthodox Churches are spreading hatred among nations. All Orthodox Churches hate us and that is not in line with the 10th commands. On the other hand Catholic Church do not divide people as per the race nationality and so on .....

[MegaArgus1]

Personally I attend services in Catholic Churches since there is no Macedonian Church in my area. There are Serbian..Greek and so on but I do not like to please them with my attendance ...

[PAGANE]

What kind of Constantinople? Constantinople is gone, Istanbul is there. The Turkish government recognizes the Ecumenical Patriarch as the religious head of the Greek Orthodox community in the country and calls him the Greek (literally Roman, Romani) Orthodox patriarch of Fanar (in Turkish: Fener Rum Ortodoks Patriği). According to Turkish law, it is under its jurisdiction and should be a national of the Republic of Turkey and be approved by them. The center of Orthodoxy is already Russia and it is normal to have a new center and it should be Moscow.

[catgeorge]

What kind of Constantinople? Constantinople is gone, Istanbul is there. The Turkish government recognizes the Ecumenical Patriarch as the religious head of the Greek Orthodox community in the country and calls him the Greek (literally Roman, Romani) Orthodox patriarch of Fanar (in Turkish: Fener Rum Ortodoks Patriği). According to Turkish law, it is under its jurisdiction and should be a national of the Republic of Turkey and be approved by them. The center of Orthodoxy is already Russia and it is normal to have a new center and it should be Moscow.

Constantinople is gone only in your sweet little dreams.

[catgeorge]

Personally I attend services in Catholic Churches since there is no Macedonian Church in my area. There are Serbian..Greek and so on but I do not like to please them with my attendance ...

You're peddling nonsense - none of you go to church because you're philosophically marxist commies and abhorent liars.

[Vojnik]

Again to destroy the communist theory lies in relation to Macedonians constantly regurgitated by our lovely neighbouring nations, i'd like to point then to a man named Teodosij Gologanov (Theodosius of Skopje). This man became the metropolitan of Skopje in 1890, and after that, began to push for the restoration of the old Archbishopric of Ohrid, so that the Macedonians could have their own church once again.

So the Macedonian Orthodox Church was always a goal for the Macedonians Nothing to do with communism. It pre dates communism in Macedonia.

In 1891 he wrote a letter pushing for the establishment of a Macedonian church separate from the others:

To His Worthiness, Dionysus, in Sofia

10

Skopje, 22. VI. 1891

11

My dearest brother in Christ

Strange is the divine mind, and even stranger are His ways. Christ preached love among people and went to the cross for it, while we, in the name of Christ’s love and with its holiest symbol the cross, are spreading the greatest hatred amongst people and suppress them spiritually and nationally, persuading them that we do good. So our holy Exarchate, headed by the blessed Exarch Joseph I, does everything possible to persuade the poor Macedonian people that it has good intentions, that it cares about its present and future and wants to rescue them from the darkness of national unawareness and make them a people consciously Bulgarian. And it does not require much for me to persuade you, my dearest brother in Christ, that our holy Exarchate with its ecclesiastical and educational activity here in Macedonia is actually performing the most wretched task of taking away the name of a people and replacing it with another, taking away its mother tongue and replacing it with another, taking away all its national symbols and replacing them with others, all in order to secure for its government and its Bulgarian merchants commercial penetration into new territory. What would you call this, dear brother, if not a new slavery more terrible than the Turkish one? The Turks take the lives and properties of the rayah,1 but do not reach for the spirit. They destroy the body, but respect the soul. And our holy Exarchate kills the second, the lasting one. Is this a brotherly and a Christian relation?

13

I write this to you so that you will wonder less about my previous letter in which I expressed my opinion that we, the clergymen who are Macedonians by origin, should unite and move our people to awake and cast off foreign rule, to throw away the Patriarchate and the Exarchate and unite spiritually within the bosom of the Ohrid archbishopric, their true mother church. Is it not about time to stop the national division of one and the same people only because one recognizes the Patriarchate, the other the Exarchate, and the third reveres Mohammed? Is it not about time to stop the hatred amongst brothers? And how can this be done, if not by having our people’s church, through the Ohrid archbishopric. I will be sincere, my dear brother in Christ, and tell you openly: we the Macedonians suffer less from the Turks—may the sultan live long— than from the Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs, who threw themselves on our pitiful country like eagles on a carcass and want to dismember it (“…and they tore up your shirt, O Christ”).

14

And since I wrote you this, I think you will understand me. I took on myself to renew the Ohrid archbishopric, and from that there is no return. I am not sure if I will succeed, because a lot has been done by our ‘friends’ to come up to this situation. But it is time to start the sowing. Some seed will fall on rock, the birds will eat some, but some will find a fruitful ground and will grow. Let me, if God so wills, be the first victim, but let that victim be useful for my people.

15

These last days I had a chance to take up some more concrete steps. You know that the Turks will never agree to our creating a new church. But on the other hand, they also do not like the Bulgarians. I had an opportunity to speak here to the vali [governor] and he promised me help at the Sublime Porte, if our new church will be put under the patronage of some other church recognized in the empire. Of course, dear brother, he asked that his services be paid, and I can’t rely on the local wealthy men, while the poor ones can give nothing. I took 200 liras from my subsidies and gave them to him. Now I think about checking how the Constantinople Patriarch will look upon my plan. I met the local Greek consul in the vicinity of the town, in a nearby spa, and expressed to him my feelings. I told him we were ready to renounce the Exarchate and recognize the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate if the favor is granted us Macedonians to renew the Ohrid archbishopric, abolished at the time by the forceful Patriarch Samuel III Handjeri [Hantzeris] with the help of the High Devlet2. We are ready to recognize the Patriarchate as the Universal Throne and obey it in everything, just as the other Orthodox churches do, but only if it has no right to interfere in our matters and if it registers the Ohrid archbishopric in the codex of the Orthodox churches on an equal footing with the others—everything to be the way it had been before. Graeca fides, nulla fides: so the consul made no response openly, saying only that he would inform the government in Athens so that it could make a decision. He did not forget to mention to me that the local Greek metropolitan Paisios should not be told any of this, because he would not agree to leave Skopje. For my part I said to him that he does not have to leave Skopje if only he agrees to recognize the Ohrid archbishopric, and why would he not do this when he speaks our language so nicely and on his mother’s side he is Macedonian. And not only this—now he has some 200 to 300 families in the town, while by then he would be metropolitan of all Christian souls there, so his bishop’s revenues would be ten times bigger. The consul did not respond to this, but only repeated once again that I should not speak about this with Paisios.

16

I did not believe the consul and did not want to waste time. Through Tome Janakiev3 I organized a meeting with Paisios and told him the plan about the Ohrid archbishopric. At first he started to argue. But isn’t he greedy like any other Greek?—for when I told him that we would leave him here in Skopje as metropolitan of the whole population, the man got softer and promised me that he would personally write to the Patriarch and if he agrees I would go to Istanbul and speak to him personally about the whole thing. I told him that for the majority of the eparchies we already have appropriate men to be metropolitans, and in those places where we do not have any we would accept Greek bishops provided they know our, that is, the Macedonian language. I was obliged to make this concession, because you know yourself that it is better to accept as bishops Greeks who speak our language than Bulgarized Macedonians who would make further problems. As for the Greek bishops, as we gradually remove them from office and we will appoint our men in their places. On the other side, the Patriarchate will agree sooner this way than if we turn our backs on them immediately.

https://books.openedition.org/ceup/2306?lang=en