Domagoj Nikolic - Aleksandar Makedonski

[-Invictus-]

Monkey donkey ramblings about "Bugari Tatari" and a book written by Athanasious Toleff Christoff(brainwashed half Greek-half Bulgarian)

It's ok dude. Just breathe deep and slow and try to relax. I don't think copy-pasting "STAROBUGARSKA" 10 times brings validity to your ridiculous point. If it does anything, it's the opposite.

Btw, nice map you have on your signature. Is this from one of these "alternate history" videos?

[Anaximander]

His name is Alexandros, not Alexandar, LOL.

[-Invictus-]

JohnyP's ramblings sparked my interest in the history of the Glagolitic and Cyrillic scripts. Here is something interesting I found :

https://www.bulgari-istoria-2010.com...eva_Azbuka.pdf

"Първата е азбуката № 70, означена като „българска“. Тя също е обяснена на стр.
275: “ Българите са славяни, тяхната азбука произлиза от илирийската“3"



From another document :



The documents used in the article are from the 18th century and Bulgarians, Serbians and Croatians are mentioned, but strangely not Macedonians. Looks like the evil Tatar anti-Macedonian propaganda was running deep in French, German and English linguists at that time

[PAGANE]

I supplement them: and in all medieval chroniclers from Byzantine, Latin, etc. Constantine-Cyril created the Glagolitic alphabet of the Thessaloniki Slavic dialect, which belongs to the Eastern Bulgarian Rupian dialects. It is also important to know that Constantine the Philosopher began work on the alphabet during his first stay in the monastery of Mount Olympus around 855. In the "Salzburg Memorandum" of 871,early Latin sources from the ninth century which states that Methodius appeared in Pannonia with "Newly discovered Slavic letters" Therefore, the language of the Thessalonian brothers by ethnicity is Old Bulgarian. It is characterized by the combinations шт-sht, жд -zhd (in words such as нощь-night, гражданинъ-citizen, межда-boundary), the broad vowel of э- e (in words such as лэто-summer, бэлъ-white, млэко-milk), the use of the dative possessive case instead of the genitive possessive ( отьць ем? вместо отьць его) All these features indisputably prove that the literary language created in the ninth century on the basis of the Glagolitic alphabet is of Bulgarian origin. At the end of the ninth century in Preslav appeared the second Old Bulgarian alphabet - the Cyrillic alphabet, which contains 24 letters of the Greek alphabet and 14 characters close to the Glagolitic, which correspond to the purely Bulgarian sounds: B, F, H, W, W, H, C , Ъ, Ь,?,?, ™, Ю, Ы. The Cyrillic alphabet has no established authorship. Most scholars reject the thesis that Kliment Ohridski is its author. It is more probable that he perfected the Glagolitic alphabet, the alphabet of the holy brothers he revered.The Cyrillic alphabet is associated with the writers of Preslav because it is a continuation of a centuries-old tradition of writing government documents in Greek letters. You have a state, you have state documents. You have no state, you have nothing. And the letters for the specific Bulgarian sounds are taken from the Glagolitic alphabet, as they are simplified in the spirit of the graphics of the whole alphabet.

[-Invictus-]

in words such as нощь-night, гражданинъ-citizen, межда-boundary

Here is how these words look today :

Old Slavic-Bulgarian-Macedonian
нощь-нощ-ноќ
гражданинъ-гражданин-граѓанин
межда-между-помеѓу

[Anaximander]

I supplement them: and in all medieval chroniclers from Byzantine, Latin, etc. Constantine-Cyril created the Glagolitic alphabet of the Thessaloniki Slavic dialect, which belongs to the Eastern Bulgarian Rupian dialects. It is also important to know that Constantine the Philosopher began work on the alphabet during his first stay in the monastery of Mount Olympus around 855. In the "Salzburg Memorandum" of 871,early Latin sources from the ninth century which states that Methodius appeared in Pannonia with "Newly discovered Slavic letters" Therefore, the language of the Thessalonian brothers by ethnicity is Old Bulgarian. It is characterized by the combinations шт-sht, жд -zhd (in words such as [FONT="]нощь-[/FONT]night, гражданинъ-citizen, межда-boundary), the broad vowel of э- e (in words such as лэто-summer, бэлъ-white, млэко-milk), the use of the dative possessive case instead of the genitive possessive ( отьць ем? вместо отьць его) All these features indisputably prove that the literary language created in the ninth century on the basis of the Glagolitic alphabet is of Bulgarian origin. At the end of the ninth century in Preslav appeared the second Old Bulgarian alphabet - the Cyrillic alphabet, which contains 24 letters of the Greek alphabet and 14 characters close to the Glagolitic, which correspond to the purely Bulgarian sounds: B, F, H, W, W, H, C , Ъ, Ь,?,?, ™, Ю, Ы. The Cyrillic alphabet has no established authorship. Most scholars reject the thesis that Kliment Ohridski is its author. It is more probable that he perfected the Glagolitic alphabet, the alphabet of the holy brothers he revered.The Cyrillic alphabet is associated with the writers of Preslav because it is a continuation of a centuries-old tradition of writing government documents in Greek letters. You have a state, you have state documents. You have no state, you have nothing. And the letters for the specific Bulgarian sounds are taken from the Glagolitic alphabet, as they are simplified in the spirit of the graphics of the whole alphabet.

So, u support the idea that the first alphabet Cyrill made (Glagolitic), was based on the Bulgarian dialect, while the second appearing in Preslav by Saint Naum, was the same with Cyrill's original? If i get it right? If i do, then the Theme of Salonika in the sentury saint Cyrill created its alphabet had mixed population of Bulgarians and Greeks, or the Bulgarians of the period spoke a mixed language between Slavonic and Greek. I dont know if my thought procces is right, But what i understand u claim is that Clement, showed respect to saint Cyrill, and didnt change the alphabet????

[Uski]

Macedonism is ok against preventing that however there is one catch.
Although it is true that modern macedonians are pretty much the native ancient people mixed in with incoming slavs and other tribes (cumans,maybe some bulgaro tatars), the native people of this land were not all macedonian! Cities like dojran, gevgelija bogdanci on one end, and bitola resen prilep, maybe even ohrid to an extend were inhabited by ancient macedonians, however cities like skopje were dardanian, thracians lived along the east and the paeonians were the largest native group inhabiting the land, with cities like stip and veles being under them. The slavic macedonians which did have ancient mac blood were mostly in cities like florina,kastoria eddesa etc but they got assimilated in part. I dont think its fair for modern maks to claim all macedonian slavs have ancient mac blood in them. Cities in pelagonia and Dojran are i get, but I mean the others cities claims arent that strong as these ones

I think we have two options: NM and BG recognize that there are national minorities in each others countries, or both Maks and Bulgarians stop claiming each others land and/or people, ie pirin macedonia for maks and strumica area or so for bugis. Both sides have to make concessions

[Stefan559]

Macedonism is ok against preventing that however there is one catch.
Although it is true that modern macedonians are pretty much the native ancient people mixed in with incoming slavs and other tribes (cumans,maybe some bulgaro tatars), the native people of this land were not all macedonian! Cities like dojran, gevgelija bogdanci on one end, and bitola resen prilep, maybe even ohrid to an extend were inhabited by ancient macedonians, however cities like skopje were dardanian, thracians lived along the east and the paeonians were the largest native group inhabiting the land, with cities like stip and veles being under them. The slavic macedonians which did have ancient mac blood were mostly in cities like florina,kastoria eddesa etc but they got assimilated in part. I dont think its fair for modern maks to claim all macedonian slavs have ancient mac blood in them. Cities in pelagonia and Dojran are i get, but I mean the others cities claims arent that strong as these ones

I think we have two options: NM and BG recognize that there are national minorities in each others countries, or both Maks and Bulgarians stop claiming each others land and/or people, ie pirin macedonia for maks and strumica area or so for bugis. Both sides have to make concessions

http://istoriski.com/golemo-arheolos...veele-pajonci/

[-Invictus-]

So, u support the idea that the first alphabet Cyrill made (Glagolitic), was based on the Bulgarian dialect, while the second appearing in Preslav by Saint Naum, was the same with Cyrill's original? If i get it right? If i do, then the Theme of Salonika in the sentury saint Cyrill created its alphabet had mixed population of Bulgarians and Greeks, or the Bulgarians of the period spoke a mixed language between Slavonic and Greek. I dont know if my thought procces is right, But what i understand u claim is that Clement, showed respect to saint Cyrill, and didnt change the alphabet????

The Glagolitic was based on the language of Slavs who lived in Thessaloniki. It was used in both in Bulgaria and the West Balkans. A few years later the Cyrillic script was created by Saint Naum(one of Cyril and Methodius disciples) on the basis of the Glagolitic in the Preslav Literary School. Then it became official in Bulgaria, Serbia, Kievan Rus and so on, while the Glagolitic peaked in Croatia until 14th century before the Ottoman conquest. In Ottoman years the script slowly lost it's popularity and in 19th century it became used only in religious practices and was completely replaced by the Latin script( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glagolitic_script#Spread )

It doesn't mean that the Slavs living in Thessaloniki spoke a mix of Bulgarian and Greek. They were just Slavs who spoke Old Slavic in the borders of the Byzantine empire at that time. The language that is most similar to Old Slavic is Bulgarian and Macedonia was part of medieval Bulgaria for a long time, hence why that dialect of the Macedonian Slavs(not the Bulgaro-Serbian gibberish they speak today) was defined as eastern Bulgarian. At the time of Cyril and Methodius it was just Old Slavic - the language that unites all Slavic languages today and makes us understand each other to some extent.

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Anaximander; 6725680] И така, подкрепяте идеята, че първата азбука, създадена от кирилица (глаголица), се основава на българския диалект, докато втората, появяваща се в Преслав от св. Наум, е била същата с оригинала на Кирил? Ако се оправя? Ако го направя, тогава Темата за Солун в стражарския светец Кирил създаде своята азбука е със смесено население българи и гърци, или българите от периода говорят смесен език между славянски и гръцки. Не знам дали мисълта ми се счита за правилна, но това, което разбирам, че твърдя, че Климент е проявил уважение към светеца Кирил и не е променил азбуката ???? [/ QUOTE]

No.

Cyril and Methodius create the Glagolitic alphabet of the Thessaloniki Slavic dialect, which belongs to the Eastern Bulgarian Rupian dialects
And this alphabet, which today is known as the Cyrillic alphabet, was created in the Preslav literary school in the late ninth century or early tenth century. It contains 24 letters of the unique Greek alphabet and 14 characters close to the Glagolitic alphabet, which correspond to purely Bulgarian sounds ( б, ж, ц, ч, ш, щ, ъ, ь, ѣ, ю, ѧ, ѫ). The following excerpt is found in "A Short Life of Kliment Ohridski":
"He invented other forms of letters for greater clarity than those invented by the wise Cyril. Whether this statement actually says that Kliment Ohridski developed a simpler and more convenient Glagolitic font or developed the alphabet that we now call the Cyrillic alphabet is a fact on which scholars have no opinion.


No medieval source has found its own name of the Old Bulgarian alphabet based on the Greek uncial alphabet.
The name "Cyrillic" was registered in 1563 in the Croatian translation of the New Testament, published by Croatian Protestants in Tübingen.