Yeah I have to admit Americans are right

[Debaser11]

Part of the reason health care is in the situation it is in Canada is because Canada has the tendency to punish the Liberals by voting Conservative every so often. By the time the Liberals fix the mess made of the health care and education systems by the Conservatives, the population decides to "punish" them again. The Conservatives are forever hounding a more American health care system, and as such seem hell-bent on sabatoging what would otherwise be a great health care system. The Liberals aren't exactly angels, but I prefer them to the disaster party that is the Conservative party. For the Americans who think their system is better and criticise the Canadian system...the only reason our system seems to go bonkers every few years is because of the Conservative attempts to americanise it. I would take the Canadian or EU health care systems any day of the week.

You don't think the reason your healthcare is going down the shitter has anything to do with the fact that you people import tons of people that are a burden to the system? (As in, the net takers are increasing rather than net contributors.)

Did you ever stop to think such bondage to other individuals less reliable than themselves might have something to do with why some Americans don't go gently into the night when political measures are taken to ram Obamacare through? Did you ever stop to think that the more responsible people who exercise and eat healthy don't want be lumped in with the lowest common denominators who can't be bothered to exercise and who choose to splurge on fast food more routinely? Did you ever stop to think how some people don't like how such a system gives the government license to tax anything they deem unhealthy (from cigarettes to tanning salons to God knows what else) and how that leads to a society with less freedom? And if certain people are paying more into a system and others are taking disproportionate amounts of money from the system because of their lifestyle or for whatever reason, do you not see that as wealth redistribution? Do you blame people for not wanting to hand their money over in such an obvious manner?

Yeah, you'd take those Canadian and EU healthcare systems now, but demographics will reach a critical mass (especially in places like the U.K.). When a small enough group is subsidizing too large of a group's healthcare (something I always thought was most sensibly an individual's own responsibility), the whole thing will come down like the house of cards ponzee scheme that it is.

[YOUTUBE]wbyPe_I3-6A[/YOUTUBE]

[Equinox]

There is no such thing as free healthcare.

This entire discussion is simply to justify one of two positions:

1. "Free" healthcare is good. I pay taxes, the government/my employer cops some of the bill and I am not at all too bothered by the bureaucracy, just as long as I get treated well.

2. "Free" healthcare is bad. It is for people unwilling or unable to prepare for hurdles they will face throughout their lives. It is also unrealistic and the part paid by my government/employer is unnecessary debt for the country as a whole. A self-regulating market for healthcare will bring down the price and give me the most efficient service.



I was recently reading about a Canadian case whereby the state-operated healthcare came to light when a citizen argued it was against his rights to quick treatment. The bureaucracy and inadequacy of the system was that bad.

I suppose that it really does not matter whether your country is inclined to option one or two, as long as they believe in one whole-heartedly.

Indecision breeds weakness.

[Cato]

TANSTAAFL.

Somebody's got to pay for your "right to health care." You bums who think that you're owed something free better look to the working slobs who foot the bill for your "free" trips to the doctor. Last I looked, no one pays for my trips to see my doctor (since, as a working American, I don't qualify for "free" health care, what a load). I pay for that shit out of my own wallet.

As this guy used to say as a part of his gimmick:



Everybody's got a price; everybody's got to pay.

Well, unless you qualify to get someone else to pay for your trips for a few pills and a slap on the knees with the rubber hammer.

[Wulfhere]

Free healthcare is the mark of a modern, civilised state. It should, of course, only go to those whose ancestors created that state.

[Debaser11]

Free healthcare is the mark of a modern, civilised state. It should, of course, only go to those whose ancestors created that state.

Now that is much more sensible at least. It stands to reason that if you have people who are capable of creating a healthy state like Canada, then such a government-run system could work well provided that the culture and values of the country remain healthy. However, if Canada is going to keep accepting everybody (no matter their background) into its borders, then the weakness of this system is quickly exposed for what it is.

[Grumpy Cat]

Free healthcare is the mark of a modern, civilised state. It should, of course, only go to those whose ancestors created that state.

Yeah I agree. And Canada was built by natives and whites but I often see natives get turned away or die in the waiting room while a boatload of Tamils get free care on our dime.

But then again, by the ancestor creating the state then Anglo-canadiens shouldn't get free care because the French built Canada, English just got lucky. So it should be whoever pays taxes , regardless of background.

[Susi]

Yeah, I'm glad it's free, but damn next time I cut myself I'm just going to to to the pet store and get the antibiotics and thread to do the damn stitches myself. That's ironically what an American friend of mine does because he doesn't want to pay for it.

It's not ironic, it's dangerous.... I'd rather wait and have a doctor look at me.

But who foots the bill so others can get free health care? Guess how much in Social Security is taken out of my paycheck so that old farts and deadbeats can get free healthcare? Quite a fair amount, and I'm no rich man.

Oh my god taxes oh god oh god oh god... I always wondered if someone is against government control/provision of services and taxation, then why even bother with conservatism -- just leap straight to anarchism, the ultimate freedom? up

If Social Security wasn't taken out of my pay every two weeks, well, I'd be able to afford a modest health care plan of my own. Fuck this free nonsense, you have to pay for something if you want it badly enough.

The thing is, if everyone pays a bit from their paycheque (the same that you'd pay for a modest plan) then everyone can have healthcare. It works the same way privately, in a way. Your fees subsidise someone else's doctor visit ('free' under private insurance) and then in turn others subsidise yours... is it any better under a private system whose only motives are profit rather than well-being?

You don't think the reason your healthcare is going down the shitter has anything to do with the fact that you people import tons of people that are a burden to the system? (As in, the net takers are increasing rather than net contributors.)

The Canadian immigration system isn't an open tap. It's actually quite difficult to qualify for healthcare (I lived with someone from Mexico who'd been here four years and still didn't qualify for OHIP despite qualifying under the points system for entry... then again it isn't really even, my Russian friend got OHIP in like, 2 years).

Did you ever stop to think how some people don't like how such a system gives the government license to tax anything they deem unhealthy (from cigarettes to tanning salons to God knows what else) and how that leads to a society with less freedom?

?

Yeah, you'd take those Canadian and EU healthcare systems now, but demographics will reach a critical mass (especially in places like the U.K.). When a small enough group is subsidizing too large of a group's healthcare (something I always thought was most sensibly an individual's own responsibility), the whole thing will come down like the house of cards ponzee scheme that it is.

It isn't a Ponzi scheme because it doesn't promise ridiculous returns. Besides that taxation is based on proportionate measures of income, so rich pay more tax than poor (as they should)... The people who come in also pay taxes which also funds the healthcare system (among other government initiatives).

The only people who can pay the full 'real' cost of healthcare are the fabulously wealthy. And I don't want to live in such an unequal society.

Somebody's got to pay for your "right to health care." You bums who think that you're owed something free better look to the working slobs who foot the bill for your "free" trips to the doctor. Last I looked, no one pays for my trips to see my doctor (since, as a working American, I don't qualify for "free" health care, what a load). I pay for that shit out of my own wallet.

You ever think that the majority of people who go to the doctor here (or in EU) have jobs? Because we do. If I remember the unemployment rate recently published by StatsCan is 8%. If 8% of people don't pay income tax (though the proportion is higher because of the exemption on people earning less than 14,000$), they still pay sales tax (among other taxes).And in fact, I proudly support these people while they are on the bottom of the barrel because , I care about my fellow man
, no matter how much money they have or contribute.

[Cato]

You ever think that the majority of people who go to the doctor here (or in EU) have jobs? Because we do. If I remember the unemployment rate recently published by StatsCan is 8%. If 8% of people don't pay income tax (though the proportion is higher because of the exemption on people earning less than 14,000$), they still pay sales tax (among other taxes).And in fact, I proudly support these people while they are on the bottom of the barrel because , I care about my fellow man
, no matter how much money they have or contribute.

Who do you think I am, a panhandler?

[The Lawspeaker]

Let me put it this way: a nation that does not provide for it's citizens and keeps them safe in their hours of need after having extorted taxes from them is not a nation and a home for a people but a roofstaat (to use a good Dutch word. A state that lives off extortion and looting). And I honestly belief that any nationalist that opposes general free healthcare for everyone is not a nationalist and any Christian that argues against free healthcare is not a Christian.

I am more then willing to pay some more taxes (that would include sales tax and excises) if the money would be used for providing medical care for my kin, my people and any foreign traveller that falls ill or is injured on his trip. Medical treatment of sickness and injuries is a human right.

[Susi]

Who do you think I am, a panhandler?

I am unaware of your profession, but I hear panhandlers can make quite a bit of (untaxed) income?

Medical treatment of sickness and injuries is a human right.