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Thread: "How to Be a Heathen" by Stephen E. Flowers/Edred Thorsson

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    Default "How to Be a Heathen" by Stephen E. Flowers/Edred Thorsson

    How to Be a Heathen:
    A Methodology for the Awakening of Traditional Systems
    By
    Stephen E. Flowers/Edred Thorsson

    The following paper was generated from a talk delivered to the Pagan Student Alliance of the University of Texas at Austin, November 22, 1991 and is dedicated to the memory of Edwin Wade, Óðinsgoði, who died on this date in 1989.

    I have come to you to speak about how exactly one might go about being a heathen, or pagan, in today’s world. What I will say will be of use on two fronts. First, it will provide a model for the rationally intuitive “reconstruction” or revival of heathen religions – or better said – cultural value systems. But second, it can also act as a sort of manual of “consumer guidance” for such systems. Since we are swamped with the “marketing” of such systems on a constant basis, I think the time has surely come for some discussion on how we should approach them.

    The whole issue of culture is often glossed over, especially by American writers. This is because there is usually only tenuous understanding of what all is meant by this term. When we speak of culture, we may meaningfully break it down into four types of culture – all of which blended together give us a true picture of any given historical society, ancient of modern. There is: 1) ethnic culture, 2) ethical culture, 3) material culture, and 4) linguistic culture. These may be conveniently illustrated as in Figure 1.

    Culture
    Ethnic Ethical
    Material Linguistic
    Figure 1: The Culture Grid

    All kinds of culture have to do with contact of some kind between real people. Humans are cultural animals. To survive we need to absorb, intellectually and consciously, tremendous amounts of cultural data. The faculty to generate culture and to absorb its contents is one of the things that separate us from the “other” animals (Which is another way of saying what makes us something other than animals).

    Ethnic culture is a purely physical reality. It has to do with the reproduction of the carnal human reality – physical bodies – through sexual contact. It is, if you prefer the term, the “racial culture” of a people. In any holistic understanding of culture this must, of course, be accounted for and discussed. When we look around the world today, we see cultures like Japan which has an almost entirely homogeneous ethnic culture. This is also reflected in other aspects of their over all cultural model, which is to be expected. They constitute a true nation, in the original meaning of that word, i.e., a people sharing a common birth (from Latin natio, I am born). The United States of America on the other end of the spectrum, is not a true nation but rather a multi-national state.

    Ethical culture is the most complex kind of culture. It touches all the other types, and is usually what most people think of when they think of culture at all. It has to do with everything that is contained in, and generated from, the minds of humans (in that given culture). It contains the categories of everything from religions to political ideologies, to literary traditions, to economic systems. Ethical culture is the collective ideology – or spiritual systems – of a society.

    Material culture comprises, on the other hand, all the physical objects created by art (i.e., craft). These are the artificial projections onto the physical world of the contents of the mind – of ethical culture. Often we know of a given historical culture only by means of the artifacts (objects of material culture) left behind in the archeological record. This is, for example, the case with the “Old Europeans,” the pre-Indo-European folk of the far western part of the Eurasian land mass.

    Finally, linguistic culture is the language spoken and understood by a people. This is most intimately connected with ethical culture, for especially in the case of cultures of the past it is virtually only through linguistic records that we can determine what the content of their minds – their ethical culture – was. Factors from the material culture also become extremely important here because it is usually only through tangible (i.e., material) records of the linguistic data that we can know the thoughts of the people of the past as directly as possible – through actual scrolls, papyri, inscriptions, books, etc. This is how they can speak to us most directly and most clearly over time, and we must hear them in this way to be sure of the voice of the past.
    What most heathens, or pagans, seem to be interested in is the revival of ancient cultures. They like to go back in their minds and imaginations to a time when the cultural grid was a holistic one – where one could speak of (just to name one example) the Germanic culture as a whole: Germanic folk, Germanic religion, Germanic art, Germanic language were one organic whole. If a sense of this wholeness can be regained, it can again make a positive impact on the individual and the culture to which that individual belongs by healing the sense of alienation the loss of that wholeness causes.
    This is a noble endeavor. But it is a difficult one to do well and reliably and with a minimum of subjective wish fulfillment. The establishment of a method of doing all this is what I hope to contribute to with this paper.

    The “neo-pagan movement” is rife with subjectivism. People reconstruct the “past” in the vision of their own private needs and prejudices. Neo-paganism is often less a religious path and more a system for the validation or justification of subjective biases. Sometimes these subjectives result in effective and sometimes beautiful systems of thought and practice: take for example the original form of Gardnerian Witchcraft. But their bases are nevertheless in the subjective needs and prejudices of the creators. What I propose is the development of an objective, rational basis for a system from which reliable and more profoundly useful systems can be developed.
    A little less than two thousand years ago, when someone mentioned “pagan science” or “pagan thought” (as distinguished from “Christian”) it implied that there was a rational basis to it – not a “revealed,” irrational one. How much that has changed over the ensuing years! I would like to see the pagan birthright of rationality restored to us. So that when the word “pagan” is heard it will not necessarily call up images of whacked out misfits, but will on the contrary be synonymous with clear-headed, yet inspired thought.
    One of the great pagan thinkers was a Greek named Plato. His system was almost entirely from his indigenous philosophical tradition (although for the sake of prestige he often invented myths about more exotic sources for his thought). Greek idealism, like Indian idealism, is really derived from the same Indo-European ideology. Idealism is, in this context, the supposition that there is a more real, more permanent, world beyond this one, and of which this world is a shadow or reflection. To the traditionalist this is the world of the gods and the world of laws beyond them to which they are also subject. For Plato and the Indian philosophers of the Brahmanas and Upanishads the world beyond is filled with impersonal first principles, or forms (Greek eidos), or archetypes, if you will.

    If this world is a reflection or shadow of the ideal world, and if we can learn the laws and principles of how such reflections or shadows are made, we have the possibility of discovering the truth about the hidden world beyond our senses. The way to discover these truths is, furthermore, shown to be a process of rationally intuiting the objects of knowledge beyond the grasp of our senses. We begin with what we may know rationally, significantly improve on that knowledge, and then jump intuitively (using objective knowledge as our spring-board) into the world beyond the rational. The main problem with pagan thought as usually practiced today is that there is a good deal of jumping – but the spring-board is made of balsa wood.

    Plato identified four levels, or types, of knowledge, as shown in figure 2.

    Type of Knowledge Object of Knowledge
    4. Rational Intuition Forms
    3. Logic Mathematical Objects
    2. Belief Things
    1. Conjecture/Guess-Work Shadows
    Figure 2: Platonic Scale of Knowledge

    Conjecture, or guess-work (Greek eikasia) hardly qualifies as “knowledge” at all. No one should “think” like this. Although all of us do at least occasionally – and most people do most of the time. This is the kind of thought that is based on nothing but totally subjective “evidence,” or worse yet, on the subjective evidence provided by others. Two-dimensional characters, such as Archie Bunker, provide perfect examples of such people. Such people know nothing but the shadows of real things.
    Belief (Greek pistis) is a faith in the validity of things which have been received from authoritative sources. In a traditional society these authoritative sources are easy to identify. The priests and priestesses of the national divinities, tribal elders, etc. In our postmodern world these authorities are more difficult to identify reliably. If nothing else, this paper should be of some use in that process. At this stage the person knows real things, but can only follow certain directions with regard to practice when dealing with things beyond the world of the senses. To this realm belong what we usually think of as “religion” – the correct performance of rituals, etc. This is the level at which the vast majority of people are comfortable. As far as a healthy society is concerned, this is also the level at which most people should be satisfied. Beyond it is a realm of spiritual toil and anguish.
    There is a gulf which separates belief from logic. The tension across this gulf was quite palpable in the modern age.

    Logic, or rational thought (Greek dianoia) is knowledge of the kind we would today call “scientific.” It is essentially based on data, which are, as often as not, rooted in mathematics. As we have come to learn in the modern world, if you “have the numbers” concerning something it is likely that you will be able to manipulate or reshape that thing. You can control it because you have quantified it. To this realm of knowledge we would today ascribe all of the arts and sciences taught and researched at our universities. Universities are temples to Dianoia – or thought. Today credible knowledge seems to end here. Beyond it lies only mumbo-jumbo and ufo-ria. But such was not the case in pagan times.

    Rational intuition (Greek noesis) is the highest kind of knowledge. But one can non leap from belief into rational intuition – one must pass through dianoia. Long training in objective science (in whatever field) is necessary to cause the mind to function in a reliable manner. Then when it is prefocused on more “spiritual” objects the knowledge it gains will be maximally reliable – or real. We no longer have traditional schools for training in this kind of knowledge. All the schools which exist at present in cultures derived from European roots are new schools. So the question becomes one of quality, not age or legitimacy of authority.

    This scale of knowledge, and this whole discussion of pagan bases of knowledge in general, has been offered to give some sort of context for the body of this presentation. The point will be that the “reconstruction” of whole cultural systems must (at least according to the best kind of pagan knowledge) be based on objective criteria and data, but additionally they must just as much be matters of actual doing – not merely ivory tower theorizing. It is only through enactment of theory that knowledge becomes real. We can only learn the most important things through action and experience.

    How is it that we know how to put men on the moon, or how to build bombs that can destroy the world (proving that we are indeed gods of the planet) today – but we – as a species – in fact know nothing more about the most profound human problems of Love, Truth, Justice, etc. than did good old Plato? “Progress” can be seen clearly in technological fields because this kind of knowledge (technical knowledge) can be passed on easily in a system of belief from one person to another, from one generation to another. Each person, each generation, does not have to “reinvent the wheel.” But when it comes to those other things, those things which cannot be passed on by authority from one person to the next, every person does indeed have to reinvent his or her own wheel. But not just any wheel will do. It has to be the right wheel. This is what initiation is all about. This further points to the methods used by philosophers which really can only put the student in a place where knowledge can be gained directly from the source. The teacher cannot impart the knowledge, only create the conditions in which knowledge can flow into the student’s conscious mind.
    Can a Dead Cultural System be Revived?

    Before beginning our quest, we must refine our goals. To the basic question of whether a truly dead cultural system – such as the Egyptian, Sumerian, or Indus Valley – can be revived, I think the honest answer must be: “No.” That is, human creativity can (re-)create something of an artificial likeness of such a cultural system to vivify it with action and devotion. But the thing itself is not actually brought back to life. This is in part also due to the fact that in the cases mentioned above the lines of continuity of ethnic, ethical and linguistic culture have been irreparably broken.

    But to a slightly different question of whether a sleeping cultural system can be awakened, the answer may be more confidently be given: “Yes.” If there is some continuity between the past and the present in all four cultural areas – but if a cultural system has nevertheless become disestablished – then it is said to be not dead but merely sleeping. Such is the case with the Germanic tradition. We form a continuously identifiably ethnic unit, we hold many of the old ethical traditions (see everything from concepts of “English Common Law” to the “Christmas” tree), we still create art based on Germanic concepts of abstraction, and we certainly still speak a language derived directly from that of our pre-historic ancestors. None of these categories is completely dead – all are just sleeping under a blanket of Christian/Middle Eastern overlay. The same could be said for the Celtic, Italic, Hellenic, Slavic, and a dozen other traditions.

    In many ways what I will present in the sections that follow is the method I used in the awakening of the Germanic tradition in a score or so books I have written on the subject, and the methods used for awakening slumbering practices and beliefs in the Asatru movement as a whole. This methodology is essential for students of any such cultural system.

    The Process of Awakening
    The process of awakening comes in three phases. These do not follow in the linear pattern 1-2-3, however. That is, you do not start in Process I, finish it, and then move on to Process II, etc. Really we are involved on all three levels throughout our lives as long as we are dedicated to the long process of reawakening the hidden reality within. But, with all this being said, wisdom must be applied at all times to discipline one’s self so that in the early part of one’s quest most of one’s time is spent on Process I, while relatively less time is spent on the latter two. As the years do on the balance will begin to shift, and relatively less time will be spent on the objective tasks and more time will be spent in the activation of what one has learned. It is in this latter stage that true understanding arises.

    Process I is one of rational discovery or objective analysis – where the traditional record is examined in a scientific manner.

    Process II is one of subjective synthesis – where the data gathered and analyzed in the first process are allowed to sink into the subjective universe, or soul, or the individual. Here it is allowed to become whole with your mind.

    Process III is one of enactment – where the inner synthesis is activated, made to become effective in the objective universe.

    Process I
    Rational Discovery or Objective Analysis
    To begin the first process we have to ask ourselves one basic question: What do we have to work with objectively? Now at this stage we must remind ourselves that we are sticking to things that are part of the objective record. What so-and-so might have “channeled” concerning the true nature of the old Germanic, Celtic, or Egyptian system is, whatever else it might be, not objective. To accept such material or ideas is simply to believe in the power of that individual to “channel” such things. You are dealing with “revelations” not traditions.

    So what are the kinds of things that can tell us about the objective tradition? These are mainly written sources for reasons outlined above. Does that mean that everything that was ever written by or about a culture is to be used without discrimination? Certainly not. Discrimination is of the highest importance. The sources must be used in the following order or precedence:

    1. Internal Contemporary Texts
    2. External Contemporary Texts
    3. Archeological Evidence
    4. Internal Surviving “Texts” (e.g., folklore)
    5. Secondary Texts
    1. Autochthonous
    2. Comparative

    Internal contemporary texts are ones such as the Eddas or runic inscriptions which give us some sort of direct insight into the minds of heathen Germanic peoples. External contemporary texts are things such as the Roman and Greek historians’ and ethnographers’ accounts of the people indigenous to the north. Although their views may be skewed for one reason or another (and these reasons must be examined) they did have more direct sources of raw information perhaps than we can today, and so remain tremendously valuable. (For a collection of these see James Chisholm’s Grove and Gallows [Rûna-Raven, 2001].)

    Archeological evidence is mute. It can not “talk,” that is, convey verbal information, without corroboration from textual sources. If a statue of an otherwise unknown god or goddess is dug up somewhere, and it cannot be identified with some figure in the local mythology as recorded in texts, what are we left with? All that remains to us is some pretty wild speculation based on nothing but an image. But if that same artifact is to some extent “explained” by a textual source, then it becomes a great window into the spiritual life of the people.

    Again, this bears reiterating, all we can objectively know about a bygone culture must be found in an objective record – written or archeological – and all interpretations of that record must be held to judgments based on the objective record. To proceed otherwise is simply to be a believer in modern prejudices and prophets. To illustrate this with a concrete example, of the many rune books that came out in the 1980s (with one exception) only my works were based on the actual tradition of runology well-known from the runestones, rune-poems, and modern scientific runology itself. All the others freely altered or dispensed with (or more accurately, were simply ignorant of) the traditional knowledge available in any good reference book on the subject – if you couldn’t be bothered to visit a runestone. But books were written on the bases of these wild speculations, prejudices, and wishful thoughts. How to decide “which” runic system to use? In a way, I was faced with this same problem when I started my own esoteric studies. But I realized that all foundations had to go back to some objective piece of evidence – to some runic inscription, to some Eddic or runic poem, to some saga passage, and perhaps to some comparative evidence – all else was interpretation. But as I came to see it, it had to be interpretation based on the whole of the tradition, not just one select part of it.

    Another slightly different class of primary evidence is provided by folklore. By folklore I mean customs, stories and all kinds of traditions that have been handed down in a continuous fashion from early times. Examples of this kind of evidence would be folk-tales collected by the Brothers Grimm or the various country customs collected by folklorists throughout northern Europe. It is probably true that a great deal of this goes back to pre-Christian, heathen, times. The problem is we can never know exactly how much of it has been innovated or imported in the Christian era. Therefore folklore evidence must be considered as being secondary to the more archaic material. It can be used to fill in gaps in our knowledge, but on the evidence of folklore alone no reliable objective system can be created, nor can folklore evidence be used to overthrow the evidence from more archaic sources.
    Finally actual secondary, scholarly, literature about the traditions must be considered. The huge body of scholarly work that has been done on the ancient Germanic religion, for example, is too rich and thought-provoking to ignore. The present-day heathen should approach this literature as a record of contemporary men and women trying to make some rational sense out of the primary evidence according to certain intellectual rules by which their science is supposed to be governed. “Inspiration,” so important to the practicing heathen, is of much less importance to the scholar. But often inspiration can be drawn from their sometimes limited conclusions. When making use of secondary scholarly literature you should try to find the most recent works possible. If the scientific aspect is being developed as it should be, the older literature will be accounted for in newer, and the older will been superseded by the more comprehensive findings of the newer as well. The only caveat here is when some ideological fashion (e.g., “political correctness,” “feminism,” etc.) comes to dominate scholarship in certain sectors. Learn to recognize and avoid such intellectual fashions. In general secondary material can be divided into two classes: one which treats a given tradition from within itself and another which tries to compare one system to another thereby illuminating further the more obscure of the two. Of course, this latter method must account for the ways in which one system or tradition might be connected to the other. It is in this area that the work of Georges Dumézil is so important.

    Now that we have reviewed the types of sources to which we will attempt to gain access, the problem arises as to what exact questions will we attempt to answer with this data. The essentials of understanding any person individually, or any group of people collectively, lie in knowledge of their view of the world, of themselves, of any gods or goddesses they might have, and in understanding the practices they use to act and interact within these various contexts, e.g., what rituals, spiritual technologies they use.
    In technical terms we must discover the traditional cosmology used by the folk-group in question. That is, what is their view of the order of the world. Also essential to this is the origin of the world, their cosmogony. Once you understand how people view the world, you have gone a long way toward understanding the very soul of the people.

    The soul must also come under direct examination. Here we must try to reconstruct the traditional psychology of the group. The investigator should try to determine what the folk-group thinks a human being is in essence and how the individual relates to the whole (society and world). This in turn opens the door to the sociology of the traditional group under investigation.
    Usually a special category is enjoyed by the gods and goddesses of a people. The divinities are special exemplary models for human behavior and spirituality. By knowing the pattern inherent in the god-forms as well as understanding how the various god-forms relate to each other inside the system we will have a deep-level map of the ideas of the people in question.
    Also essential to the whole process is an understanding of the “spiritual technologies” used by a people to communicate with their gods, to interact with them and/or with the world directly. Peoples usually have rituals and customs to affect this part of life. Such customs and behaviors are usually at the center of revivalist efforts. The problem is often that the rituals are lost or only survive in sketchy outlines. At this stage we are primarily concerned with finding out what these outlines are. The only way to restore the soul to these outlines, and to flesh them out again in a robust fashion, is to discover the soul of the people through the understanding of the cosmology, psychology, sociology and theology – and then enacting the ritual elements regularly and physically. When modern heathens make the same sounds, gestures or motions that their ancestors did in worshipping the gods or carrying out some other spiritual or magical practice, their actions physically and actually resonate with those of the past. The more this is done, the stronger the resonance becomes. This is why in the True movement, or in Ásatrú, it is so often emphasized that actually troth is a matter of doing, not believing. From action comes faith in the results of action.

    Two other important ways to recover the soul of the ancestors, and ways theoretically very much akin to the rediscovery of their spiritual practices, is the learning of the archaic languages they spoke, e.g., Old Norse (Icelandic), Old English, and/or learning their methods of crafting things in the physical universe, e.g., metal-working, weaving, wood-working. At first these seem to be merely technical undertakings, but as time goes on the soul of the activity will manifest itself as the acts of today begin to resonate with the actions of the past and a sort of inter-epochal harmony begins to arise in the soul of the modern heathen.

    Process II

    Subjective Synthesis
    Once suitable progress has been made in all phases of the first process, all the data collected in that learning process is to be constantly and thoroughly submitted to a threefold model of subjective or internal inquiry. Each piece of data is to be considered as it relates to the individual self of the subject (you), how it relates to the tradition (as you have come to understand it), and how it relates to the environment (social and natural). The question of tradition handles the problem through time (diachronically), while the question of the environment handles it as it relates to the here-and-now (synchronically). This process is actually a description of how the individual soul makes sense of the tradition.

    As an example of this, let us take the traditional fact that the cosmos is made up of “nine worlds.” How does this relate to my individual self? How does this relate to tradition? How does this relate to the world around me? Now let it be said that what exact answers you come up with are perhaps less important in the beginning than the fact that you have posed the questions to yourself and set the wheels of inquiry into motion. In time the questions will be answered – not because you read them in a book by Edred Thorsson or Georges Dumézil – but because you have come to know the answers yourself. You will have experienced the answers. Often the best efforts at objective and subjective inquiry come to an impasse. Knotty problems sometimes remain. At times, but especially when such thorny problems arise, a threefold tool of inquiry can be brought to bear. Ask these three questions:

    1) Is it factual? (i.e., fits the findings in Process I)
    2) Is it aesthetic? (i.e., pleasing to the sensibilities)
    3) Is it useful? (i.e., fills a basic contemporary need)

    Again, let’s take a concrete example to illustrate how this is supposed to work. Let’s say Uncle Einar, who resentful of his Christian upbringing, objects to having a “Yule-Tree” in the hall during Yuletide because he thinks it is a “Christian thing.” You want to do the right thing, so you apply the threefold question to it: Is it factual that the tree is pagan? Yes, that can be proven from many sources. Many Christian denominations realize this and therefore try to discourage their followers from having “Christmas trees.” “But just because heathens did it doesn’t mean we have to do it, right?” persists Uncle Einar. This is true, O avuncular one. But the fact that the whole culture finds the tree an important and meaningful part of the Yuletide festivities (despite the attempts of the early Christians to suppress it) shows that it is generally pleasing to the sensibilities of most folks. Because of its popularity its usefulness as a symbol and as a religious practice is assured. It helps us focus on the immortality of the folk so long as its identifiable organic existence continues. Gifts given to the children, and to the ancestors, focus our attention both on the roots and to the leaves of the tree. This also points the way to the preferability of using living Yule-Trees. The roots were cut off when the crypto-heathens had to remove their Yule-Trees indoors to worship in secret ways that had formerly expressed in public and in the woods. Let us restore the roots to the Yule-Tree!
    So the problem of the Yule-Tree seems to be a personal one for Uncle Einar. He is, of course, free to dispense with it in his own home, but it can certainly be proven to meet all three criteria for continuance, maintenance and redevelopment as a true custom.

    Process III
    Enactment

    Once a set of practices, beliefs, and so on, have been established through the application of Process II, it increasingly becomes the responsibility of the individual to prove the results of the second process through enactment, through actually and physically acting out the practices. This first comes on a personal level. Only through enactment in the physical world can the final judgment be made on the viability of the system you have arrived at. Things that looked good on paper, or sounded good in your head, may be unworkable in actual practice. This can only be shown through practice. On one level this is the end of the whole process, but on another level it is just the beginning.

    This process of enactment itself comes in two main phases. The first involves individual enactment. Begin to enact the subjectively synthesized patterns on an individual basis – both internally and externally. Internal “action” is just as important as external action. Internal action is tantamount to faith or belief – a firm conviction of the truth of something. A thought profoundly held and conceived is a powerful deed. Most forceful and sustainable external action is motivated by the emotional engine of the soul, which is perceived as faith or belief. The Norse term for this is trú. This moves the subject to act. The external actions may range from undertaking traditional handicrafts with spiritual intent, to the enactment of the religious rites rooted in ancient Germanic patterns, to the carving of runes. Again the important thing is to act, and to act in full awareness of the meaning of one’s actions. The resonance built up between one’s actions and the original paradigms upon which these actions are based is rooted on the trueness, or accuracy, of their forms.

    Using these methods you can create your own personal religion, of course. But heathendom is in essence a folk religion, it involves a community of people. Individual development is important and essential, but if it is isolated and detached from others, it will not have permanence, and hence will not be as holy as it might have been. Therefore, the next arena of enactment is on the group level. Unless you can make what you arrived at up until now valid for a group of people, all you have done is create a highly personalized system. It is for this reason that organizations are necessary in the applications of these methods. Once the system becomes successful for a whole group of people it can be said to have gained, or regained, a transpersonal validity. This is the end-goal of all reawakened heathen systems. When group-level validity is achieved and maintained it becomes clear that the system is not the clever invention of a single individual, but rather the resonant and true reawakening of something that had been slumbering in the souls of all it touches. It can be said to ring true.
    _______________________________________________

    Original Text:

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    That or Odin taps you on the shoulder and kicks your butt into a direction of his liking. Science is nice, and I'm on good terms with it, but I don't let it dictate my relationship with the gods. We can study our ancestors all we like, and how they interacted with the supernatural, but that ignores the fact that the supernatural is right there in front of your face already interacting with us. And in any case, times have changed and we need to figure out what the gods are doing now, and what they've been up to since the loss of the old religion to really communicate with them. And we shouldn't need science to prove to the world and to ourselves that our religion is true, rather we should know it is true in our hearts and minds and be satisfied. This is not to say that things from the past shouldn't be brought forward, but if you look hard enough they're already here.

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    Pfft. Don't you know the proper way to be a Heathen is to be a semi-literate asshole sitting around drinking beer and listening to Oi! music or gay hair metal, and talking loads of shit on Internet boards?

    Fucks wrong with you?

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    It's all a matter of whether someone is a social Heathen or a practicing Heathen. You can tell them apart by the color of their sentiment. Also, while I don't appreciate the sort of Heathen you referring to, you've crossed a line with me in describing all of my extended kin (other practicing Heathens) as good-for-nothing louts. Might want to keep your passive aggressive compliments to yourself.

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    ^^^ you don't know my sense of humor. I was making fun of those types of Heathens... Since they would make fun of the OP and the author of the article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimskegg View Post
    It's all a matter of whether someone is a social Heathen or a practicing Heathen. You can tell them apart by the color of their sentiment. Also, while I don't appreciate the sort of Heathen you referring to, you've crossed a line with me in describing all of my extended kin (other practicing Heathens) as good-for-nothing louts. Might want to keep your passive aggressive compliments to yourself.
    She pretty much speaks the truth....

    But lets get back to conversing about the article please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frater SRMD View Post
    She pretty much speaks the truth....
    Of course, I do, I've been around Heathenry for 10 years.

    Anyways, this is off topic I do agree, I've been in troll mode all week pretty much. I could start a thread called "my beef with Heathenry" and talk about things that need to change but when I tried that on a MySpace group I was torn a new asshole and not just that they had to make pot shots at my heritage which had NOTHING to do with the subject matter ... people can't handle the truth.

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