R1a-CTS1211 (M558) in Bronze Age Lithuania & Latvia

[Peterski]

R1a-CTS1211 is ca. 37% to 38,5% of all Polish R1a, and R1a is ca. half of all Polish Y-DNA.

Five ancient samples of CTS1211 have just been published, and they are from Baltic states:

Lithuania, Spiginas2, 2130-1750 BC, Baltic_EBA, R1a-Z280>CTS1211+

Lithuania, Spiginas25, 800–545 BC, Baltic_BA, R1a-Z280>CTS1211+

Latvia, Kivutkalns222, 805–515 BC, Baltic_BA, R1a-Z280>CTS1211>YP1034>Y13467+

Latvia, Kivutkalns19, 730-400 BC, Baltic_LBA, R1a-Z280>CTS1211>YP1034>Y13467+

Latvia, Kivutkalns209, 405-230 BC, Baltic_IA, R1a-Z280>CTS1211>YP1034>Y13467+

Could ancestors of ca. 1/5 of Polish men originate from Bronze Age Latvia and Lithuania?

[Peterski]

Two different estimates of percentages of R1a subgroups in Poland (CTS1211 is over 1/3 of Polish R1a):

Spoiler!

1. My estimate (I calculated it from FTDNA Projects):

R1a-M459 - 100,00% (sample size 1208), including:

---- M459* - 0,17% (2)
---- M198 - 99,83% (1206)
-------- M198* - 0,17% (2)
-------- L664 - 0,33% (4)

-------- Z645 - 99,34% (1200)
------------ Z93 - 2,73% (33)
------------ Z283 - 96,61% (1167)
---------------- Z283* - 0,91% (11)
---------------- Z284 - 0,41% (5)

---------------- M458 - 46,03% (556), including:
-------------------- L260 - 24,83% (300)
-------------------- CTS11962 - 20,45% (247)
-------------------- other M458 - 0,75% (9)

---------------- Z280 - 49,25% (595), including:
-------------------- CTS1211 - 38,49% (465)
------------------------ CTS3402 - 30,05% (363)
------------------------ other CTS1211 - 8,44% (102)
-------------------- Z92 - 9,85% (119)
-------------------- other Z280 - 0,91% (11)

2. Estimates of Peter Gwozdz from his website:

(but this includes Polish Jews with R1a-Y2619)

http://www.gwozdz.org/Results.html

R1a-M459 - 100,00% of Polish R1a, including:

Z93 - 5,25%
--- Y2619 - 3,03% - typical for Ashkenazi Jews CTS6>Y2619 - https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS6/
--- other Z93 - 2,22%

M458 - 46,87% of Polish R1a, including:
---- L260 - 29,70%
-------- YP254 - 19,60%
------------ Y4135 - 3,43%
------------ YP414 - 8,48%
---------------- YP610 - 5,66%
---------------- YP589 - 2,83%
------------ Y2905 - 7,07%
---------------- YP1364 - 3,43%
---------------- other Y2905 - 3,64%
------------ other YP254 - 0,62%
-------- YP654 - 4,85%
-------- other L260 - 5,25%
---- CTS11962 - 16,57%
-------- L1029 - 12,53%
------------ YP593 - 3,84%
------------ YP444 - 2,42%
------------ other L1029 - 6,27%
-------- YP515 - 4,04%
---- other M458 - 0,60%

Z280 - 46,87% of Polish R1a, including:
---- CTS1211 - 37,37%
-------- CTS3402 - 32,12%
------------ Y33 - 14,34%
---------------- Y2902 - 6,67%
---------------- S18681 - 5,05%
---------------- L1280 - 2,22%
---------------- other Y33 - 0,40%
------------ YP237 - 13,54%
---------------- YP389 - 4,44%
---------------- YP977 - 3,84%
---------------- L269 - 2,02%
---------------- other YP237 - 3,24%
------------ Y2613 - 4,04%
---------------- Y2608 - 3,64%
---------------- other Y2613 - 0,40%
------------ other CTS3402 - 0,20%
-------- YP343 - 4,04%
------------ YP371 - 2,83%
------------ other YP343 - 1,21%
---- Z92 - 8,48%
-------- Z685 - 5,66%
------------ CTS4648 - 2,83%
------------ YP351 - 2,83%
-------- Z92 type E - 2,42%
-------- other Z92 - 0,40%

All other R1a - 1,01%

[Peterski]

YFull estimates the age of R1a-CTS1211 to be ~4600 years, and TMRCA ~4400 years ago:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS1211/

If these estimates are correct, Spiginas2 is not much younger than TMRCA of this subclade.

[Peterski]

Bump.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

There are some hypothesis that this was the Y-DNA of the first proto-Slavic speakers. But... just hypothesis.

[Peterski]

There are some hypothesis that this was the Y-DNA of the first proto-Slavic speakers.

I guess it was part of the Proto-Balto-Slavic community.

[Peterski]

Please note that Kivutkalns 19 (730-400 BC, Baltic_LBA) belongs to a Baltic-specific subclade of CTS1211, YP1034>Y13467+.

So Kivutkalns 19 was not ancestral to Slavic branches. But Spiginas 2 could be ancestral to both Slavic and Baltic CTS1211.

=======================

We don't know, what Y-DNA was typical for West Balts (such as Old Prussians). East Prussia, the homeland of West Balts, was conquered by Teutonic Knights and then colonized by German, Polish, Lithuanian, Belarusian and Russian settlers, who mixed with Old Prussians and assimilated them. We can only look at Y-DNA of East Prussians, their surnames, and try to establish which Y-DNA is from original West Balts.

Samples of R1a-CTS1211 of East Prussian origin (from FTDNA Projects):

1. Typically present-day East Baltic (Lithuanian & Latvian) branches:

kit 71994 (Franz Pallaschke, born in 1883 in Buddern) - CTS1211>YP1034>YP4258

kit 85285 (Friedrich Lichtenstein born in 1870 in Königsberg) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP295>L366>YP5223
kit E10339 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP951>Y17619

kit 426239 (Kalinowski born in 1878 in Riesenwalde) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>YP968>YP969>YP4335

2. Typically East Slavic (Belarusian, Russian, Ukrainian) branches:

kit 175710 (Georg Glass born in 1810 in Babanten) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y2910>Y2915

3. Typically West Slavic (Lechitic, Czecho-Slovak, Sorbian) branches:

kit 200664 (Simon Netke, born in 1686 in Königsberg) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>S18681>YP315>YP314

4. Typically West Slavic Lechitic, and specifically Pomeranian-Kashubian:

kit 165792 (J. M. Sommerfeld, born in 1750 in Tiegenort) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP238>L365>Y P243>YP389>YP4669
kit E9666 (J. Pawellek born in 1853 in Ortelsburg) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP238>L365>Y P243>YP269>Y6956>L670
kit N7393 (Reimer born in 1720 in Hoppenau) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP238>L365>Y P243

5. Other typically Slavic ("Pan-Slavic" distribution today) subclades:

kit N18451 (Frank J. Zalewski, born in 1858 in Gotschalki) - CTS1211>YP343>YP340
kit 153224 (Leopold Lau, born in 1867 in Kompehnen) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613
kit 275076 (Georg Gottlieb Gutt, born in 1729 in Brodnica) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613>Y2609>Y2608>YP613
kit 330940 (Friedrich Malesha, born in 1800 in Soldahnen) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>L1280>FGC19283>YP1 448
kit E4464 (Karl Labinsky born in 1840 in Trempen) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>L1280>FGC19283>YP1 448>FGC19273
kit 2546 (Johann Piasetzki, born in 1860 in Sensburg) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>S18681>Y12463>YP1428*
kit 131361 (Jan Jablonowski, born b4 WW2 in Prioma) - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3226>Y 3219>YP1144>PH3519-B2

[Peterski]

Map of East Prussian samples of R1a, N1 and I2a:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...86#post4898786

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post4898830

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post4307048

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post4459328

Map: https://s31.postimg.org/mfwjkq5or/Ol...a_surnames.png

[Bobby Martnen]

Two different estimates of percentages of R1a subgroups in Poland (CTS1211 is over 1/3 of Polish R1a):

What subgroup of R1a does R1ethel have?

[Peterski]

What subgroup of R1a does R1ethel have?

Not this, a different one.

================

West Balts (Prusai, Nadruviai, Skalviai and Jotvingiai) in 12th-13th centuries:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a6/6b/54/a...138f6dfcf2.jpg