Longobard DNA study

[PunhetaDeBacalhau]

According to this study, North Italians during the Roman era were just like modern Tuscans.

Seems that original north italians received a strong genetic input from germanic\barbarian invasions. Inhabitants from Collegno (northwest italy) from that time used to cluster with southern italians and greeks.

The original inhabitants of Collegno, in Northwest Italy, clustered with modern day South Italians and Greeks, not even Tuscans. So much for Nordic Romans lulz

The usual Nordicists, which is 60% of the genetics community, are all very quiet. I wonder why.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The original inhabitants of Collegno clustered with modern day South Italians and Greeks, not even Tuscans. So much for Nordic Romans lulz

The usual Nordicists, which is 60% of the community, are all very quiet. I wonder why.

Yes, this is a full blown kick on the nuts on those who are found of theories like "all Roman elite was Nordic\Germanic"

[Token]

The original inhabitants of Collegno clustered with modern day South Italians and Greeks, not even Tuscans. So much for Nordic Romans lulz

The usual Nordicists, which is 60% of the community, are all very quiet. I wonder why.

It is the end of the Nordic Romans wet dream.

[Scar]

It is the end of the Nordic Romans wet dream.

They will manage to create some diversion or excuse like ''only peasants were tested'' or similar bullshit. They can't accept ''greasy'' Sicilian/South Italian Meds created the Roman Empire.

[Rethel]

No sensable results?

[Vid Flumina]

The southern input in the northern Italian Langobard samples seems to be pretty similar to Tuscans, so (most part?) of the northern deviation in modern Northern Italians compared to Tuscans can be probably attributed to Germanic input. It is weird that they didn't explicitly made this observation in the paper though.

Cause these weren't autochthonous people, just like the same Tuscan-like individuals found in Szolad aren't native Pannonians.

[Token]

Ydna of an Italian from Lombardy.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ombard-Italian

Also, this is interesting. Seems quite high for a northern Italian I assume?:

http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...&postcount=128

Among 37 Langobard samples, there were just two I1: one I1a3 and one I1a1b1. The great majority of the samples were R1b and Germanic I2a subclades. I think it is necessary to revise the common Germanic dispersion theory of modern I1 distribution.

[Token]

Cause these weren't autochthonous people, just like the same Tuscan-like individuals found in Szolad aren't native Pannonians.

Interestingly predominantly southern European individuals that join the Tuscan cluster are minoritary in Hungary and overwhelmingly majoritary in Northern Italy, some of them with more than 70% Tuscan-like ancestry with the rest being CE and British-like. These ones would probably be genetically pretty similar to modern North Italians.

Southern input in the Szólád individuals seems to be pretty diverse but overall closer to southeastern Europeans.

[Peterski]

Neither Etruscans nor the actual Roman-era clustered with South Italians:





Between the Early Roman Era and the Late Roman Era, there was a significant influx of Middle Eastern and African immigrants to Italy. See Busby 2015:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4714572/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60982215009495



Massive immigration from Non-European provinces of the Roman Empire to Italy is also confirmed by written sources (there were also a lot of foreign slaves imported to Roman Italy - mostly from the Middle East and from North Africa):

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1....tb02635.x/pdf

https://www.toqonline.com/archives/v5n4/54-Frank.pdf

http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/home.html

About immigration to Italy in Roman times:







Cassius Dio (155 - 235 AD) wrote:

"(...) Yet not even so, by threatening or urging or postponing or entreating, have I accomplished anything. You see for yourselves how much larger a mass you constitute than the married men, when you ought by this time to have furnished us with as many more children, or rather with several times your number. How otherwise shall families continue? How can the commonwealth be preserved if we neither marry nor produce children? Surely you are not expecting some to spring up from the earth to succeed to your goods and to public affairs, as myths describe. It is neither pleasing to Heaven nor creditable that our race should cease and the name of Romans meet extinguishment in us, and the city be given up to foreigners, - Greeks or even barbarians. We liberate slaves chiefly for the purpose of making out of them as many citizens as possible; we give our allies a share in the government that our numbers may increase: yet you, Romans of the original stock, including Quintii, Valerii, Iulli, are eager that your families and names at once shall perish with you. (...)"

==============

I think that samples which cluster with South Italians were Illyrians:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post4981114

==============

There is only one Roman-era sample and it clusters with North Italians:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post4981062

See: https://i.imgur.com/bNj82Cc.png

So much for Nordic Romans lulz

But there was a lot of MENA immigration to Italy during Roman times.

Edit:

SK is a Jew from Slovakia.

Samples from Collegno close to SK, were probably Jews from Roman times.

They were not native to North-West Italy just like SK is not native to Slovakia.

It is "amazing" that they are still using the PCA with the same old samples as that outdated study from the 1st decade of the 21st century. This Russian from Moscow (RU in the PCA, only one sample from entire Russia IIRC) is probably descended from Poles - which is why he plots closer to Poland than to Ukraine. And their only sample from Slovakia - SK - plots with South Italians because it is a Jew (or maybe a Romani).

Their Polish samples were exclusively from Mazovia.

And Mazovians - compared to the rest of Poles - are genetically like another nation. They plot much closer to Lithuanians and Latvians (LV in that PCA) than Lesser Poles or Greater Poles. So far all studies (including "Genetic History of Balto-Slavs" from 2015) are using only Polish samples from Mazovia and Estonia (Estonian Poles). The only dataset which includes also samples of Poles from other regions, is Harvard's Human Origins, which has samples from Lublin Region, Greater Poland, as well as Lusatian Sorbs:

http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2016...s-dataset.html

Mazovia was an independent duchy until 1526, yet Mazovians are used to represent all Poles in most studies. I just find it weird. They are neither the majority of Poles nor "the most Polish" region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Masovia

Warsaw became the capital of Poland in 1609. Before that it was Cracow.

[Bosniensis]

Among 37 Langobard samples, there were just two I1: one I1a3 and one I1a1b1. The great majority of the samples were R1b and Germanic I2a subclades. I think it is necessary to revise the common Germanic dispersion theory of modern I1 distribution.

All non-Italians are R1b

Italians were G, J2, I2

Celts I2

Anatolians J2

etc...

Greco*Roman world descended from Haplogroup IJ that mixed with E and G peoples.

But IE fanatics shall never believe.