Islam Debate Thread

[Altaylı]

OH. MY. GOD. Do you seriously believe Christianity has no Judaic influence? They took nothing from Judaism?

Definitely there are common things between judaism and Christianity
Lol Rethel doesnt know anything about his religion.

[Rethel]

OH. MY. GOD. Do you seriously believe Christianity has no Judaic influence? They took nothing from Judaism?

For example what?
How could be something taken from them if judaism emerged 500 years later than Christianity?
Pharisees did hate us, becasue one of the main Jesus' teachings was, that they are children of
he Devil and Jesus spoke against almost everything what they did create and then belive in it.
Prejudaists hated us, because they hated Jesus, and when they finally emerged, were a small
sect, which was living in ghettos, and which had been from time to time kicked from our land.

So, how and why did we took something from judiasm?

If you would say, that it happen in the last 50-100 years, then I would agree, because many
different christian group took a lot of stuff from judaism, but it did not happend earlier.

[Randommembr]

For example what?
How could be something taken from them if judaism emerged 500 years later than Christianity?
Pharisees did hate us, becasue one of the main Jesus' teachings was, that they are children of
he Devil and Jesus spoke against almost everything what they did create and then belive in it.
Prejudaists hated us, because they hated Jesus, and when they finally emerged, were a small
sect, which was living in ghettos, and which had been from time to time kicked from our land.

So, how and why did we took something from Judiasm?

In last 50-100 years I agree, that many differen Christian group took many stuff from judaism, but not earlier.

Judaism emerged 500 years after Christianity? nooooo. I doubt you even know the basics of Christianity. Learn up on Christian history.

[Rethel]

Judaism emerged 500 years after Christianity?

Yep. Judaism emerged when Talmud was written and accepted, and it didn't happen before 500 CE.

[Graywolf]

Yep. Judaism emerged when Talmud was written and accepted, and it didn't happen before 500 CE.

Dude it is not important when Judaism emerged, what Jesus, Jews and Mohamad tells is exactly same: Jewish Mythology emerged in thousands of years ago. They all believe Abrahm's teachings and his sons were prophet. Now you're doing is clashing Jew gods.

[Rethel]

what Jesus, Jews and Mohamad tells is exactly same:

Absolutly not. These are totaly different religions, which teach
totaly different, often directly opposite and contraticing things.

It starts with the God, holy place and holy book.

Christians belive in Jehovah/Yahweh with the Heaven's Jerusalem as the holy place and the Bible as the holy book.
Mahometans believe in Allah previously known as Hubal (Baal) and Dushara with Petra and Mecca as holy places with Koran, Sira and Hadiths as holy books.
Jews belive in Hashem, Shekhinah, Nahash and Hamalka with star of Remfan with Ukraine and Aelia as holy places, and the Talmud, Tosefta, Zohar etc biblioteques as holy books.

Further is only more and more differences.

[Mortimer]

I disagree with Rethel, to call Islam as Satanic. I dont consider Judaism, Islam or even Buddhism as Satanic. It is clear what Satanic is, and there is really the Church of Satan out there. Islam is not Satanic. And in Islam Satan has the role of the adversary just like in Christianity. There are some cults though who worship the devil though, openly and outright. Islam is not Satanic. I think that Mohammed, was someone who should have brought the Gospel to the Arabs, just like Saint Patrick brought the Gospel to the Irish. But he was a bit mislead, and wanted to reconcile Jews and Christians, and got upset neither wanted to follow him. So he created a own version of Judaism and Christianity. Thats how I learned it in school. For example Muhammed saw that Jews and Christians fast, and he said Muslims should fast too but because it is easier, they should eat at night when no one sees what they do.

[Altaylı]

I disagree with Rethel, to call Islam as Satanic. I dont consider Judaism, Islam or even Buddhism as Satanic. It is clear what Satanic is, and there is really the Church of Satan out there. Islam is not Satanic. And in Islam Satan has the role of the adversary just like in Christianity. There are some cults though who worship the devil though, openly and outright. Islam is not Satanic. I think that Mohammed, was someone who should have brought the Gospel to the Arabs, just like Saint Patrick brought the Gospel to the Irish. But he was a bit mislead, and wanted to reconcile Jews and Christians, and got upset neither wanted to follow him. So he created a own version of Judaism and Christianity. Thats how I learned it in school. For example Muhammed saw that Jews and Christians fast, and he said Muslims should fast too but because it is easier, they should eat at night when no one sees what they do.

According to Islam Muhammad is just a messenger of God. Muhammad didn't create Kuran and Islam but God created Islam and Kuran. Mohammed just informed people about Islam.

[Skjaldemjøden]

explain.

My bad, I should have added a quote. I was referring to Graywolf's comment on the first page:

Break the chains of your opressors' religion and honour your ancestors by preserving their cultural and religious customs.

It's a common sentiment here, particularly among pagans, and I find it ridiculous.

[Longbowman]

Islam is retarded, but so are Christianity, Judaism and paganism. However, these are not the topics of discussion, so I will stick to Islam:

Do Muslims believe that non-Muslims are going to Hell for not believing in Islam, regardless of their strength of character? Y/N*

If N, what's the point of being a Muslim?**

If Y, then your God is closer to Satan (or Shaytan, whatever) as a concept.

First of all, we must ask ourselves, why did God suddenly decide to burn all non-believers forever in 600AD (or 50AD if you're a Christian)? This concept does not exist in Judaism, which is retarded for separate reasons. Was he not jealous before that? Why did he start being jealous?

Second, we must ask ourselves, how is this fair? It is easy for you to accept the Quran because you were born a Sunni. But it is much harder for a Sentinel Islander to accept the Quran, as he has never heard of it. It is also much harder for me to accept it, because I come from a non-Muslim background. Does God hate children born to non-Muslims?***

Third, we must ask ourselves: why does God care? God is supposedly an ethereal, all-powerful, omniscient being. Why would he burn someone in Jannah for all eternity just because he was, let's say, a Daoist or an agnostic? Many very fine people adhere to non-monotheistic religions.****

None of this adds up or makes sense, and the only 'evidence' is an internally contradictory text that Muslims claim is a self-contained corpus of truth and perfect book. It has no external corroboration and the much more likely 'solution' to the question of 'did Muhammad really get visions from God?' is 'no, he was a liar, or mad, or both' rather than jumping through hoops to try to make it all fit.

Spoiler!

*it is extremely clear from the Quran the answer is 'yes,' but some 'moderate' or 'liberal' Muslims deny this.

**Some liberal people will say 'oh, it grants me inner peace' or whatever. In that case, it is no better than Buddhism, yoga, or Minecraft, depending on the person. Islam as a proselytising one-true-path religion, which is how it (and Christianity) have acted for 1,400+ years, does not make sense.

***Many Muslims (and Christians) also try to hedge bets by saying 'oh, God can be merciful, you never know, maybe he will spare the heathen children from eternity in fire' but that just brings us back to question 1: do you believe in a God that would burn a child for such a thing or not? If yes, gross, if no, thanks, but I'll just be a good person and dismiss your religion

****Many Muslims (and Jews, and Christians) also try to argue everyone is a monoethist, deep down, even Pagans, so they can go to heaven but this is a) wrong (and in clear contradiction to the Quran, Torah and Bible!) and b) a cop-out, because there are also very fine atheists in the world. The reality is Islam and Christianity, in their mainstream forms, would condemn an atheist philanthropist who gave his kidney to a stranger to eternal hellfire, but spare a repentant murderer who raped 700 children. It's a ludicrous moral standard to have suddenly sprung up in the 1st millennium