"Female is real, and it's sex, and femininity is unreal, and it's gender." Discuss.

[Token]

But it could also be argued that Foucault (or Postmodernism more generally) provides ammunition to the trans movement, because of the notion that objective reality is itself an illusion, i.e. that actual biology and genetics don't matter.

Nobody thinks that the objective reality is itself an illusion since Berkeley, and Foucault don't think that "actual biology and genetics don't matter", nor does "postmodernists" (a fictional term invented by Americans to classify French thinkers that they didn't understood btw).

And to think that you thought about writing a book on postmodernism with this level of knowledge about the matter.

[Tooting Carmen]

Nobody thinks that the objective reality is itself and illusion since Berkeley, and Foucault don't think that "actual biology and genetics don't matter", nor does "postmodernists" (a fictional term invented by Americans to classify French thinkers that they didn't understood btw).

And to think that you thought about writing a book on postmodernism with this level of knowledge about the matter.

I take it you haven't heard of Sandra Harding or Andrew Ross then?

[alnortedelsur]

As I side earlier, biology has some link with behaviour, but it is far from absolute, and there is (or at least ought) no such thing as "men's jobs" and "women's jobs".

Might not be something absolute, but is the general rule, and that's how a working society should let it be.

Men jobs usually fit better on men, and women's jobs usually fit better on women. That there might be exceptions only confirm the rule.

[Tooting Carmen]

Might not be something absolute, but is the general rule, and that's how a working society should let it be.

Men jobs usually fit better on men, and women's jobs usually fit better on women. That there might be exceptions only confirm the rule.

Well I do agree that there are real differences in average physical strength between the two sexes, and this is why we have sex-segregated sports in particular. As a matter of fact, Athletics has become the latest sport (following on from others such as swimming and rugby) to ban trans women from competing in women's competitions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletic...o_zKrO7-AnvfCc

[Incal]

That biology is real but the cultural expectations of men and women are often bogus and questionable.

I don't know about women but the only thing we men expect from women is some head. That's enough to make us happy for days, months and even years.

[Aldaris]

IIRC, in Israel there is conscription for women.

How does one example disprove a clear pattern? Funny thing is that I didn't even have to check whether your claim is true or not, because it doesn't matter in a big picture. La excepción confirma la regla.

[Tooting Carmen]

How does one example disprove a clear pattern? Funny thing is that I didn't even have to check whether your claim is true or not, because it doesn't matter in a big picture. La excepción confirma la regla.

Well for me, the conscription debate is largely a moot point, since I think such a policy is illiberal and should be scrapped anyway.

[Aldaris]

Well for me, the conscription debate is largely a moot point, since I think such a policy is illiberal and should be scrapped anyway.

That's irrelevant. What you have done is that you've posted a one example of women doing the job that is usually assigned to men. I don't have to explain any further, but I will say a few words. Whether it should be scrapped is a one thing, but men and women are very different and it is reflected in their job choices. Their psychology is kinda different. You're not straight yourself, so you don't fully understand certain concepts the same as we do. And it goes vice-versa, I guess.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't know about women but the only thing we men expect from women is some head. That's enough to make us happy for days, months and even years.

Thank you for such a profound and thoughtful contribution to this thread...

[Tooting Carmen]

That's irrelevant. What you have done is that you've posted a one example of women doing the job that is usually assigned to men. I don't have to explain any further, but I will say a few words. Whether it should be scrapped is a one thing, but men and women are very different and it is reflected in their job choices. Their psychology is kinda different. You're not straight yourself, so you don't fully understand certain concepts the same as we do. And it goes vice-versa, I guess.

I do understand. I myself do have some differences with radical trans activists - as do a lot of gays and lesbians in fact, precisely because they deny biological reality and physical sexual attraction, even calling lesbians who refuse to have sex with lesbians with penises (aka men) "sexual racists". That there is SOME correlation between biology and behaviour cannot be denied, but like I said if men were really so predisposed to be so predatory/aggressive and had no free will or control over themselves, then there would be far more rape, murder and general disorder globally than is actually the case.