Is there such a thing as an Eastern Orthodox civilization?

[Dimitri159]

Turkey. Yes. Greece ? No. The West was shaped by Roman and Greek philosophy. The East wasn't.

Do you really think that ‘only’ the West was shaped by Greeks and Romans? To think that ancient Greeks were ‘only’ Western-like and nothing else is inaccurate. Nobody denies that Western Civilization was shaped by ancient Greeks, but I do deny that everything ancient Greek exclusively resembled Western Civilization & did shape anything else, or that everything a part of Western culture is all thanks to the ancient Greeks…

[Your Old Comrade]

Do you really think that ‘only’ the West was shaped by Greeks and Romans? To think that ancient Greeks were ‘only’ Western-like and nothing else is inaccurate. Nobody denies that Western Civilization was shaped by ancient Greeks, but I do deny that everything ancient Greek is exclusively Western, or that everything in ancient Greek culture resembled Western culture in general…

Why would you think otherwise ?

[Dimitri159]

Why would you think otherwise ?

Troll question. And it’s simple, because it’s not true. It’s a Western Romanticist belief.

[Dimitri159]

Yeah, typical Western mentality, it's you who gets to declare what is the 'truth' upon the 'natives'.

Yup, and Greeks fall for it. This is why so many Greeks online larp for westoids and deny anything Balkan/Anatolian about our culture. Greeks are literally the only ethnic group in Europe with so many wannabe “GrEeKS are WeSTeRneRs” weirdos online lol.

[Dimitri159]

The West's foundation lies in classical Greece and classical Rome. The Byzantines were cut off from the rest of Europe due to the Schism, and then fell to the Ottomans. I find it amazing that you think that Greece, essentially, isn't part of the wider Western, European civilisation. Been drinking too much of Moscow's kool aid, no ?

Of course, the Russians spread such theories there, as they want to dig under NATO's collective security by gaining access to the Med via the Aegean Sea and the Bosphorus, so they are able to cut off Europe from the Suez Canal.

Besides, even true Western culture no longer exists. At this point Western culture devolved into Jewish degeneracy. Western culture started with the Renaissance, and ended after WW1. Modern Greeks had nothing to do either forms, because they simply were not involved up until now (unfortunately).

[Zeno]

I just now saw the thread...

And because of the comments, I will say that about Greece and ancient Greek, Byzantine (Eastern Roman) and modern Greek civilisation:

No, we can't be definitively called "Western" or "Eastern", given the fact we have heavily influenced both.

For the ancient times, no, we weren't almost anything like what later historians mainly from England and France and to a lesser extent Germany had described. It was actually a romanticised rendition of ancient Greece, as these theories were developed during... The Romanticist period. They got many things right, but also many things wrong, because that world was ridiculously idealised. Like, you seriously believe, many of you, that Athenian democracy could even be compared to any modern-day democracy, which is, as a system, a joke, just less chaotic than the other existent systems? Also, this period blatantly ignored or outright positively repudiated Byzantium, even though it was the continuation of the Roman Empire indeed, just continued by the Greeks (as the centre of power moved to the famous "Greek Eastern" half of the OG Empire). And during that period, civilisation thrived immensely. There's a reason why there's all these gorgeous monasteries, cathedrals, the Hagia Sophia, and all the palaces from that period. You can't say it was a period of decline, when you see religious and non-religious buildings, like the palaces, amphitheatres and hippodromes and libraries being built, with such grandeur. Also, literature thrived, which is why ancient Greek texts were preserved in their entirety, and were then smuggled out to Italy during the 14th century, together with the Greek scholars who immigrated with them to evade the consequences of their homeland being conquered. For today, Greece is Western in terms of its political structure, its alliances and its economics. Culturally, it isn't neither Western nor Eastern, it's something of its own that has influenced pretty much both sides.

For the "Athens was the center of the Greek world" comment made by The Lawspeaker (Old Comrade): if we are to be completely honest with ourselves, a lot of cities were the centre of the Greek world. Especially since the Hellenistic period. And after 330, Constantinople became the centre of the Greek world. And now, Athens has become that once again (fortunately or unfortunately, rather the latter).

So, in conclusion, we cannot be put into a certain category, and we cannot exclude any period of our past to properly evaluate our identity. Because both ancient Greece (archaic, classical, Hellenistic periods) and Mediaeval Greece (Eastern Roman Empire - Byzantium) are parts of Greek history.

[catgeorge]

Ancient Greeks produced amazing literature, arts and political systems
Byzantines had an amazing soul where people did not know whether they were in heaven or on earth when entered Agia Sofia.

Greece has never been Democratic btw - Hellenistic and Byzantine eras were not "Democratic"

[Victor]

It is amazing that after 500 years these pseudo-intellectual Russian nationalists still use the ideas of Philotheus of Pskov and believe that they fit into the 21st century. The Third Rome...and the funny thing is that there are still other Orthodox believers who go along with (not trying to imply that you are one of them), as far as I know a few Greeks who sympathize with this view believe in a supposed messianic mission of Russia to liberate Constantinople. In reality Russia barely has relations with Greece apart from selling some fossil fuels and maintains excellent close relations with Turkey, builds several nuclear plants there, sells them arms, boosts the tourism sector, etc.

That's not a popular idea and it's not even dogmatic in Orthodoxy or Russian Orthodoxy. I see more foreigners discussing it and a few freaks in Russia. Russian Nationalism is not clerical, there's a strict division, our Church was infested by nationalists in 90s but most of them left it. So, the idea of Third Rome is not alive in any circles or groups.

But it's just a fact that for centuries Russia was the only one Orthodox state with valid Tsar and Emperor who maintained and protected the Orthodoxy on its territory and set wars on infidels. So, indeed Russia was an Orthodox empire, the only one, back then. It does not need any terms like "Third Rome" if someone gets triggered by it.

[Victor]

There is only one proper son of the Rus - and that's Ukraine.

Cool story. And Northern Macedonia is a proper son of Ancient Macedonia, Alexander wuz a Skopian lolz.

[Victor]

Ancient Greeks produced amazing literature, arts and political systems
Byzantines had an amazing soul where people did not know whether they were in heaven or on earth when entered Agia Sofia.

Greece has never been Democratic btw - Hellenistic and Byzantine eras were not "Democratic"

Modern freaks want to legalize modern "democracies" referring to some non existant idealistic "Greek democracy" and it's lame.