Absent the mass migrations of Iberians, Italians and Poles to France...

[Tooting Carmen]

Would the contemporary White population of France still look largely the same as today, or would there be a notable difference? It is estimated that 40% of people in France have at least one foreign-born parent or grandparent, and many of them come from other parts of Europe, especially the aforementioned places. I was thinking about this because, in another thread when comparing the White players in the English and French football teams, I argued that the Irish are not really foreign to England in the way that (to varying degrees) Iberians, Italians and Poles are to France, whether in terms of language, culture or to some extent phenotypes.

[Oliver109]

Would the contemporary White population of France still look largely the same as today, or would there be a notable difference? It is estimated that 40% of people in France have at least one foreign-born parent or grandparent, and many of them come from other parts of Europe, especially the aforementioned places. I was thinking about this because, in another thread when comparing the White players in the English and French football teams, I argued that the Irish are not really foreign to England in the way that (to varying degrees) Iberians, Italians and Poles are to France, whether in terms of language, culture or to some extent phenotypes.

Did Italian migrants to France come mainly from the south? because bordering regions of northern Italy can be quite fair haired and skinned, infact i think some parts of northern Italy have a higher rate of blonde hair than some parts of southern France. I think Spanish descended French are mainly in the south coast and Paris, most French i have seen in Lyon, Lille look not very Spanish. Polish migration barely changed the look of people i think and if anything made people from northern parts of France even lighter haired than they would have looked previously. I don't think migration has altered the basic phenotypes of France that much, maybe made the country slightly more brunet on the whole but i would argue that a 1/4 Spanish or Italian person would have French traits dominating.

[Tooting Carmen]

Did Italian migrants to France come mainly from the south? because bordering regions of northern Italy can be quite fair haired and skinned, infact i think some parts of northern Italy have a higher rate of blonde hair than some parts of southern France.

I think they varied, but probably more came from the South than the North. Also, I think Northern Italy is on par with Southern France for blondism, not lighter.

I think Spanish descended French are mainly in the south coast and Paris, most French i have seen in Lyon, Lille look not very Spanish.

Even sans mass Spanish and Portuguese migration, the Southwest of France would overlap fairly well with Iberia. I agree the rest of France is more distinct from Iberia though.

Polish migration barely changed the look of people i think

I disagree that Poles look that much like ethnic French people - blonder and with different facial features (they are Slavs, after all).

I don't think migration has altered the basic phenotypes of France that much, maybe made the country slightly more brunet on the whole but i would argue that a 1/4 Spanish or Italian person would have French traits dominating.

Define "French traits" (and for that matter, "Spanish traits" and "Italian traits").

[Oliver109]

I think they varied, but probably more came from the South than the North. Also, I think Northern Italy is on par with Southern France for blondism, not lighter.



Even sans mass Spanish and Portuguese migration, the Southwest of France would overlap fairly well with Iberia. I agree the rest of France is more distinct from Iberia though.



I disagree that Poles look that much like ethnic French people - blonder and with different facial features (they are Slavs, after all).



Define "French traits" (and for that matter, "Spanish traits" and "Italian traits").

If Italians did come from the south it doesn't seem to show up in the majority of French people i have seen who are fairly light all over the country. I think some parts of northern Italy may have higher rates of blonde hair because of their proximity to Austria and Switzerland while southern parts of France are more isolated from Germanic countries. Southwestern France is not that similar to Iberia, if you see this Clarkson documentary(very funny if you find Clarkson funny) the southwestern French are like any other French.

[Tooting Carmen]

I think some parts of northern Italy may have higher rates of blonde hair because of their proximity to Austria and Switzerland while southern parts of France are more isolated from Germanic countries.

Probably true of Trentino and Alto-Adige, but they are really Austrian anyway...

[Oliver109]

Probably true of Trentino and Alto-Adige, but they are really Austrian anyway...

I used to work in a thrift shop that employed a lot of people from Trentino(the manager was Italian and students and young people doing summer language courses in London) and i would say that maybe the majority of them were light though not that Austrian looking though perhaps 30% passed well in Spain, southern Italy though not as dark even as people from Rome or Milan.

[tita]

Most migrants from europeans countries in France come from south. I guess it has probably made frenches lose iq points.
Just look at how south europeans manage their country, look at how they are agressive for no reason, sure, 20% of french being from south european changed the national IQ negatively

[Kess]

Would the contemporary White population of France still look largely the same as today, or would there be a notable difference? It is estimated that 40% of people in France have at least one foreign-born parent or grandparent, and many of them come from other parts of Europe, especially the aforementioned places. I was thinking about this because, in another thread when comparing the White players in the English and French football teams, I argued that the Irish are not really foreign to England in the way that (to varying degrees) Iberians, Italians and Poles are to France, whether in terms of language, culture or to some extent phenotypes.

Nope. Both phenotypically and genetically Irish are foreign to England. Grouping Poles along with Italians and Iberians is flawed.

[Oliver109]

Nope. Both phenotypically and genetically Irish are foreign to England.

A few are but i would say a majority look much the same

[Tooting Carmen]

Nope. Both phenotypically and genetically Irish are foreign to England.

As groups the two are slightly different, but there is barely a single Irish person who individually could not pass as English (or vice versa).

Grouping Poles along with Italians and Iberians is flawed.

What I meant was that all three of the major European immigrant groups during the previous two centuries to France don't look that similar to the French, not that Poles are much like Iberians or Italians either.