Swedes of TURANIC racial type

[Szegedist]

Hungary's name is not even Hungary in your language. It is Magyarorszag. The country of the Magyar people, not the Huns.

Wow, you think we based our relations with the Huns simply by the English name for us???!

[Szegedist]

I am sick with this kind of idiot Turanist cancer on the internet.

You are right, you can write about this Turanist cancer on here:
http://forum.slavorum.com/

[evon]

There is general agreement that by 8000 BC the retreat of the glaciers had left most of Scandinavia open for human settlement; that there has likely been continuous settlement in Norway and Sweden since this time. It is generally accepted that descendants of these hunter – gatherers from three southern European glacial refugia ultimately became the Scandinavian Vikings circa 800 AD.

Wow, talk about jump in era here allot happened in between these eras though, we have the Mesolithic and Neolithic cultures whom came to Scandinavia at different times, there is also the arrival of a new culture during the Iron age and later during the migration period and so on.
Viking is a verb, one is not an ethnic Viking, the appropriate terminology is example: Norse, Dane ect or another tribal name for the peoples living in Scandinavia ta the time of the Viking raids....

What has not been adequately addressed is the evidence demonstrating that there was a significant movement of people, as well as their horses and cultural traditions, from Central Asia to Scandinavia in the years immediately prior to the Viking - Era. Many or most explorations of the matter have assumed that trade explains the appearance of all the Central Asian finds in Scandinavia. What this approach fails to explain is the presence of Scandinavians with DNA signatures that are not European, but which bear a direct link to the Caucasus Mountain and Central Asian regions.

We know there was as i mentioned above new cultures coming to Scandinavia during the migration era, but despite both Heyerdahl and Hedanger's best efforts to show any archaeological connections one cannot find the missing link to prove it out right.
There is no DNA connection found in Scandinavian peoples today to Caucasus mountains or the Central Asian regions that i am aware off, please explain which connections you talk about?

I have a personal link to various parts of Eurasia as do most Europeans, but these connections are for the most part too old or too new for most of the known hypothesis....

In this case it is shown that not only did human groups migrate from Central Asia to Scandinavia, but in addition genetic evidence concludes that the horses so important in Scandinavian life also originated in Mongolia, and were brought to Scandinavia at approximately the same time as the proposed migration of humans.

This i have never heard before, where did you read this, please provide some sources? Also, the horse in Scandinavia has never been promoted and bred for warfare, but for labour, at least in my region where warfare by horse would have been near impossible due to the mountains and dense vegetation..

It is argued that these people with a long history of using horses and ships to extract wealth and territory from opponents are the most likely candidates for the leaders of those who founded the Norse colonies such as the Shetland Islands circa 800AD and Iceland circa 870AD. The most important contribution of the present study is to use Y-DNA genetic databases with samples scattered from Mongolia to Britain to show the continuity of genetic marker patterns from the Shetland Islands and other Norse colonies to groups such as the Altai of Central Asia, and the Azeri of Azerbaijan, and the lack of similarity of this subset of the Scandinavian population to local Eastern Europeans.

I would really like to see what you are referring to? if its YDNA Q, then its too old for these connections...

[Virtuous]

Agnetha Fältskog, Abba:

She's so cute.

[Proto-Shaman]

I would really like to see what you are referring to? if its YDNA Q, then its too old for these connections...

For sure... it is both R1a and Q... read up this work: Dr. David K. Faux, The Genetic Link of the Viking – Era Norse to Central Asia: An Assessment of the Y Chromosome DNA, Archaeological, Historical and Linguistic Evidence, ©2004 – 2007

Original PDF

It is explained that Y-Dna from Scandinavia is most related to Central Asia and ultimately rooted there. It is worth to read it. The thesis to be tested in the present study is as follows: Through a detailed examination of the genetic evidence in the form of the paternally inherited non recombining (NRY) part of the Y chromosome, it will be possible to show that there is a continuity between some of the DNA signatures of Scandinavia, and those of the Caucasus Mountain region and Central Asia, reflecting a migration of people to Sweden and Norway prior to the Viking - Era; and further that there is sufficient archaeological, historical and linguist data to support the DNA findings.

[Loki]

This in fact CONFIRMS Heyerdahl's theory about a link between Scandinavia and Azerbaijan. I'm so happy about this genetic confirmation about what I suspected was true.

[Loki]

Faux tries but he mixes things up and doesn't get his timeline right. I think I can do a better job if I have time. But he has some good information.

Also, he states:

The most important contribution of the present study is to use Y-DNA genetic databases with samples scattered from Mongolia to Britain to show the continuity of genetic marker patterns from the Shetland Islands and other Norse colonies to groups such as the Altai of Central Asia, and the Azeri of Azerbaijan, and the lack of similarity of this subset of the Scandinavian population to local Eastern Europeans.

... but then he goes on to rubbish Heyerdahl's claims. It also appears he has never heard of Gobustan.

[evon]

For sure... it is both R1a and Q... read up this work: Dr. David K. Faux, The Genetic Link of the Viking – Era Norse to Central Asia: An Assessment of the Y Chromosome DNA, Archaeological, Historical and Linguistic Evidence, ©2004 – 2007

Original PDF

It is explained that Y-Dna from Scandinavia is most related to Central Asia and ultimately rooted there. It is worth to read it. The thesis to be tested in the present study is as follows: Through a detailed examination of the genetic evidence in the form of the paternally inherited non recombining (NRY) part of the Y chromosome, it will be possible to show that there is a continuity between some of the DNA signatures of Scandinavia, and those of the Caucasus Mountain region and Central Asia, reflecting a migration of people to Sweden and Norway prior to the Viking - Era; and further that there is sufficient archaeological, historical and linguist data to support the DNA findings.

That paper is old and have little validity today, mostly since it uses STR values, today we use SNP much more and only use STR when SNP has confirmed the correct sub-clade..

The Q in Scandinavia is not the same as those found on other European locations such as Hungary, Russia ect (look at their sub-clades by SNP), and we know its very old, coming into Scandinavia a veeeeeery long time ago..

This is a map of all Q in Europe, but none of these locations bear Scandinavian Q1a3/Q1a3* sub-clades, so the map is basically useless:


R1a have a different story, i dont know much about it, my guess its linked to very old so called indo-european population movements loooong ago, but here is map by SNP that polako posted on 23andme a few days ago or so:



If you want to compare DNA from various sites and eras, this is the best collection of data to date:
http://www.buildinghistory.org/dista...cientdna.shtml

They even have some old Danish sites that are from around the Viking era..

You can find info on the various mtDNA linages here:
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_...oup_select.htm

I dont have time right now to look into his Archaeological and linguistic data, but i will do it later when i have time..

[Proto-Shaman]

Here is a German who claims being a R1a1-bearer. He ordered iGENEA to test his Y-Dna. The researchers classified his R1a1 as "Scandinavian Viking". But afterwards Russian scientists classified his R1a1 as "Centralasian" and claimed that his y-Dna-line does not fit into the newer european R1a1. He asked himself wheather there could have been some "Hunnic/East Goth horseman" from which he could have been descended.

This again confirms the work of Dr. David K. Faux.

A short look to Centralasia proves the German guys assumptions, Kyrgyz have ~60-70% R1a followed by various other Turkic groups:

Don't get confused by the Tajiks. The only reason that “Tajik” genes and Kyrgyz genes may be proximal is that a substantial portion of “Tajiks” carry Kyrgyz genes of the pre-Stalinist local population.

Khoton Turks from Northwestern Mongolia have 82,5% R1a1:


First developed on modern samples, the assay was optimized for the analysis of 11 ancient DNA (aDNA) samples from the Krasnoyarsk region (southern Siberia) that were dated from 5,500-1,800 years before present (YBP). SNP typing was successful for most of them, which were all assigned to Y-haplogroup R1a1 except one.

The mtDna (maternal line) of the Scythians in modern populations:

Highest frequencies: Germans, Poles, Swedes, Hungarians, Romanians, Latvians, Slovakians, Austrians, Italians, Bosnians, Greeks, Finno-Ugrians, Siberian Turks.

The Y-Dna (paternal line) of the Scythians in modern populations:

Highest frequencies: Poles, Germans, Latvians, Lithuanians, Croatians, Czechs, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Siberian Turks.

Khoton Turks with the highest frequency about 83% R1a1 (Scythian marker):

The Khoton are a Turkic-speaking tribe residing in Mongolia. They
differ dramatically from their neighboring tribes who are largely C* or C3c in that 83% in a sample of 40 (Katoah et al., 2004) are R1a1.

[evon]

Here is a German who claims being a R1a1-bearer. He ordered iGENEA to test his Y-Dna. The researchers classified his R1a1 as "Scandinavian Viking". But afterwards Russian scientists classified his R1a1 as "Centralasian" and claimed that his y-Dna-line does not fit into the newer european R1a1. He asked himself wheather there could have been some "Hunnic/East Goth horseman" from which he could have been descended.

This again confirms the work of Dr. David K. Faux.

A short look to Centralasia proves the German guys assumptions, Kyrgyz have ~60-70% R1a followed by various other Turkic groups:


Khoton Turks from Northwestern Mongolia have 82,5% R1a1:


First developed on modern samples, the assay was optimized for the analysis of 11 ancient DNA (aDNA) samples from the Krasnoyarsk region (southern Siberia) that were dated from 5,500-1,800 years before present (YBP). SNP typing was successful for most of them, which were all assigned to Y-haplogroup R1a1 except one.

The mtDna (maternal line) of the Scythians in modern populations:

Highest frequencies: Germans, Poles, Swedes, Hungarians, Romanians, Latvians, Slovakians, Austrians, Italians, Bosnians, Greeks, Finno-Ugrians, Siberian Turks.

The Y-Dna (paternal line) of the Scythians in modern populations:

Highest frequencies: Poles, Germans, Latvians, Lithuanians, Croatians, Czechs, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Siberian Turks.

Khoton Turks with the highest frequency about 83% R1a1 (Scythian marker):

The Khoton are a Turkic-speaking tribe residing in Mongolia. They
differ dramatically from their neighboring tribes who are largely C* or C3c in that 83% in a sample of 40 (Katoah et al., 2004) are R1a1.

iGENEA = bad science and also bad spelling:
http://dienekes.blogspot.no/2008/10/...ins-award.html

Also, Faux uses STR values, we have still not found any eastern R1a in Scandinavia (to my knowledge), time you move on man, promoting STR values in a SNP world is like swapping oil for steam-power...