Spaniards; Jewish self-haters?

[B01AB20]

This only emerges when it comes to Spanish people.

like so many other negative things...

sometimes I don't know what to think, if spain was nowadays a very important country like France, Germany or UK these forums would be like a bloody hell for us .

We're insignificant but anyway sometimes I feel like a crusader fighting a neverending anti-spanish troll war when I log in here.

It might be the weigh of history, maybe.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

But many of these forced converts fled to America (which is supported by genetics, btw) and those other nations had many voluntary conversions especially at 19th century.

That's true; it appears Sephardic Jews had a significant impact in Latin America.

[Cristiano viejo]

he painter Velazquez's father who happened to be a Portuguese converso surnamed Silva.

Velázquez was not Jewish.

Torquemada did.

The original source which quote as Jew to Tomás de Torquemada (actually talk about the uncle of Torquemada) is the Jewish Hernando del Pulgar, which, curiously, was relegated as Royal Secretary to chronicler, precisely by Tomás de Torquemada...

[Anglojew]

Torquemada did.

Some claim Bahamonde (Franco) is a Sephardi name but Zapatero (Shoemaker) is eg Salamón Arrueti, zapatero (1280-1328).

[Empecinado]

Are you trying to do math? We both know how that goes, am I right?

What source do you have that all those people in Rome went to Greece and Spain? Ah, nothing except your imagination. How do the poor, who would make up the majority of the population, wander off to Spain and Greece? But not other other parts of Italy or France or North Africa? Places far closer. Why not move down the road? Hard questions for a brilliant mind.

Back those times, Hispania was a mess. There were revolts (Bagaudas), famine, pests, foreign peoples looting and destroying all...how a slave from Rome would cross the Alps and the Pyrinees to settle there? It's absurd such assumption. In fact the number of inhabitants felt down.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Are you trying to do math? We both know how that goes, am I right?

It ends in a math scholarship and a graduate degree and high paying job (which later the government shanghaied me out of, sadly).

I know this will burn your hide even more, but it's truth. Just like your namesake you are deep down a jealous guy and are enraged to see someone you think is dumb (in spite of all the evidence to the contrary) be more successful and well liked.

What source do you have that all those people in Rome went to Greece and Spain?

History, something you should read about some time.

Ah, nothing except your imagination. How do the poor, who would make up the majority of the population, wander off to Spain and Greece?

For starters there was something called eastern roman empire. Furthermore there was no border patrol in those days. You just wake up and realize half your city is jews one day. Which is what happened in europe over and over and why the jews got expelled so many times.

But not other other parts of Italy or France or North Africa? Places far closer. Why not move down the road? Hard questions for a brilliant mind.

So mean to swim across the sea? Where do these poor people get boats? Join with the people looting rome? Well bright guy they did go to those places, too, but again why don't you stop speculating and pick up a history book you don't have to guess the answer to basic questions like this. You were disbelieving at first that rome's million and a half disappeared. You can't even begin to form an opinion before you know the basic facts, which you are totally ignorant of.

Also you know not all the slaves were penniless, the jews and greeks often had more than enough to buy their freedom, but did not want to.

Southern Europeans are related to each other by something that genetics has already proven... you may have heard of it.. .

They are all related to each other, but only the jews are related to themselves. I see!

farming spreading from the Near East (go ahead and say Saudia Arabia, dumb ass, like you did last time in your stupid attempt to misrepresent what I say or maybe you're that stupid).

It's the logical conclusion from your retarded fantasy that the jewish J haplotype got spread with neolithic farmers. It didn't. Like with history, this is just fact bro.

You appear to be the only person who has no understanding of the Neolithic Revolution.

Nah, I read up on everything archaeological and have for many years. Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

There were Jews there but no one except you knows how much of the population they made up in the 8th century, apparently. Are you mystically in touch with an ancient Iberian Jew who was a census taker?

Maths, they are all hard and stuff.

First off, unlike your fantasy where all these jews and greeks and african slaves just die off, we know that didn't happen, we know pretty well what happened to rome after its fall. We know how much the population of europe grew in that time, and even if they only grew half so much as the rest of europe (but in other places) then that 1.5 million is still much larger than ever.

There's also the concept that races do actually mix. So 1% of the population being 100% jewish is the same proportional speaking as 100% of the population being 1% jewish. Whatever the percentage is, you are a fucking idiot if you believe that jews have not mixed into iberia. The guy who raged at me thinks only 1% of iberians have ANY jewish DNA...that's just pure fantasy like your spread of the cohen haplotype by neolithic farming (which is 100% false). It's more likely nearly everyone has at least one jewish ancestor in iberia, even if you think the total percentage is only 1%.

However since there's maybe 2% SSA in iberia then it makes the 1% figure very doubtful. After all, where did this SSA blood come from? There's very few if any pure SSA types who made it to iberia in the first place. It all comes from arabs and jews. Arabs today have a fairly high SSA but back then not so much. Jews have 2% or less themselves. So if it comes from arabs and jews then what percentage of arabs and jews would iberia have to be comprised of to make it to 2% total SSA admixture?



Hate to break it to you buddy but you are part jew and maybe a lot higher than you think.

[Cristiano viejo]

Whatever the percentage is, you are a fucking idiot if you believe that jews have not mixed into iberia. The guy who raged at me thinks only 1% of iberians have ANY jewish DNA...that's just pure fantasy like your spread of the cohen haplotype by neolithic farming (which is 100% false). It's more likely nearly everyone has at least one jewish ancestor in iberia, even if you think the total percentage is only 1%.

The Jews, before their expulsion, were 1% of the entire population in Spain. Imagine after their expulsion.
Many Jews even were of Iberian descent, at least in first times:

En dichos cánones se demuestra no sólo que ya existían comunidades judías en Hispania, sino que se trataba de comunidades prósperas y que practicaban un activo proselitismo.

Already in Roman times, marriages between Christians and Jews were forbidden by law:

se prohíbe a los cristianos contraer matrimonio con mujeres judías bajo pena de excomunión de cinco años. En el 49 se amenaza con la excomunión perpetua a los cristianos que hagan bendecir sus tierras por judíos, y el 50 prohíbe que miembros de las dos religiones se sienten a una misma mesa. Por último, el canon 78 sanciona con cinco años de excomunión al cristiano que cometa adulterio con una mujer judía.

En el mundo romano los judíos no eran considerados como una etnia sino como un grupo religioso que allí donde se instalaba formaba comunidades relativamente autónomas —antecedentes de las aljamas medievales- gobernadas por un consejo propio y cuyos miembros solían vivir en un mismo barrio para estar cerca de la sinagoga, de las escuelas rabínicas o de las carnicerías y tiendas donde se abastecían de los alimentos preparados según las prescripciones de la ley mosaica. Los judíos, que no tenían ninguna dedicación profesional específica, gozaban del estatuto de religión autorizada (religio licita), aunque algunos romanos los miraban con recelo a causa de su monoteísmo y su dificultad para asimilarse al resto de la población a causa de sus costumbres religiosas

However since there's maybe 2% SSA in iberia then it makes the 1% figure very doubtful. After all, where did this SSA blood come from? There's very few if any pure SSA types who made it to iberia in the first place. It all comes from arabs and jews. Arabs today have a fairly high SSA but back then not so much. Jews have 2% or less themselves. So if it comes from arabs and jews then what percentage of arabs and jews would iberia have to be comprised of to make it to 2% total SSA admixture?

Sorry but you don´t know what you are talking and you are showing your ignorance of the history of Spain, in addition to base your posts on hypothesis such as "SSA come from Arabs and Jews"
First, you speak as if those Arabs and Jews would have remained in the Iberian peninsula, which is not true, they were expelled.
Second, did the Arabs&Moors (8th century) and Jews (1st century) of that time have black blood?
Thirld, you speak without knowing that there was a slave market, as in Rome, with its capital in Cordoba, where of course there were black slaves.
Fourth, also you don't know that the last Muslim attempts by not being expelled from Iberia counted with the help of black armies (although it´s true that these armies were destroyed by the Christians or they returned to Africa immediately).
Fifth, you are ignoring the market of slaves of the Spanish Empire.

Although the 3, 4 and 5 points were not very important, they existed, and and they are the reason for the existence (minimal, you are overestimating) of black blood in Spain.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

The Jews, before their expulsion, were 1% of the entire population in Spain. Imagine after their expulsion.
Many Jews even were of Iberian descent, at least in first times:


Already in Roman times, marriages between Christians and Jews were forbidden by law:





Sorry but you don´t know what you are talking and you are showing your ignorance of the history of Spain, in addition to base your posts on hypothesis such as "SSA come from Arabs and Jews"
First, you speak as if those Arabs and Jews would have remained in the Iberian peninsula, which is not true, they were expelled.
Second, did the Arabs&Moors (8th century) and Jews (1st century) of that time have black blood?
Thirld, you speak without knowing that there was a slave market, as in Rome, with its capital in Cordoba, where of course there were black slaves.
Fourth, also you don't know that the last Muslim attempts by not being expelled from Iberia counted with the help of black armies (although it´s true that these armies were destroyed by the Christians or they returned to Africa immediately).
Fifth, you are ignoring the market of slaves of the Spanish Empire.

Although the 3, 4 and 5 points were not very important, they existed, and and they are the reason for the existence (minimal, you are overestimating) of black blood in Spain.

There's supposedly 1% of jews in USA, too. I don't believe that for a second, I see people mixed with jewishness all the time.

Saying there's 1% of practicing jews at a given time doesn't say anything about how much jewish blood you have. Even when there was 1% of people practicing judaism there was no doubt more than 1% of people who had at least some jewish ancestry, who were not practicing jews.

2000 years to spread jewish dna around and this kind of belief is just ridiculous, especially with how integral they were with romans. There's simply nowhere in europe with so few people who have at least some jewish DNA.

No real subsaharan africans came to spain with the muslims I hope you realize. The SSA has come to you second hand from north africans and yemenites and jews. Having 2% SSA in your country means you have a much greater mixture than 2% of this secondhand source. Considering that there's about 25% light eyes in spain and aboriginal europeans seem to have had mainly light eyes...and historically it was a lot more common back then, it looks like it's a very significant amount.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

There's supposedly 1% of jews in USA, too. I don't believe that for a second, I see people mixed with jewishness all the time.

Saying there's 1% of practicing jews at a given time doesn't say anything about how much jewish blood you have. Even when there was 1% of people practicing judaism there was no doubt more than 1% of people who had at least some jewish ancestry, who were not practicing jews.

2000 years to spread jewish dna around and this kind of belief is just ridiculous, especially with how integral they were with romans. There's simply nowhere in europe with so few people who have at least some jewish DNA.

No real subsaharan africans came to spain with the muslims I hope you realize. The SSA has come to you second hand from north africans and yemenites and jews. Having 2% SSA in your country means you have a much greater mixture than 2% of this secondhand source. Considering that there's about 25% light eyes in spain and aboriginal europeans seem to have had mainly light eyes...and historically it was a lot more common back then, it looks like it's a very significant amount.

Watching Melonhead do math is like watching a child take his first steps. First of all, it tends to be between 0% to 2% depending on the region. But lets say the average is 2% across the board. How SSA are the North Africans? Roughly a third or so on average, me thinks. This would mean NA influence would be exactly the amount that has been shown by both Dienekes and Davidski... which is... come on... you can do it... 4th grade math... roughly how much would it be? Make me proud as I know you will.



Don't you want these snooty 9 year old kids to win out? Look at them... so pleased with themselves. Show them you ownz in class.