Iberian DNA haplogroups from 20,000-4,340 years ago exactly like modern Europeans

[Fire Haired]

mtDNA 236 samples Iberia from 7,000-4,340 years ago the vast majority of the mtDNA where not well enough perserved to show the subclade like H1 they just had the basic haplogroup H.

H=98 41.52% (H20=4 1.7%,H1a1a=2 0.85%, H14a=1 0.4%)

U=43 18.2%(U5=8 3.4%(U5a=2 0.8%(U5a1=1 0.4%), U5b2=1 0.4%), U4=2 0.8%)

K=34 14.4%(K1a=3 1.27%)

J=18 7.6%

N=6 1.7%

T2=5 2%(T2b=2 0.8%)

X=3 1.27%(X1=1 0.4%, X2b=1 0.4%)

V=2 0.8%

L2=2 0.8%

I=2 0.8%

W1=1 0.8%

D=1 0.8%

Some of the mtDNA was undecided

T/X=11 4.6%
http://www.buildinghistory.org/dista...cientdna.shtml

pre Neolithic Iberian mtDNA 15 samples from 20,000-7,500ybp

H=7 46.6%(H1b=2 13.3%, H6=1 6.6%)

U=4 26.6%(U5=2 13.3%(U5b1c2=1 6.6%), U4=1 6.6%)

N=2 13.3%(N5=1 6.6%, N1b=1 6.6%)

R0/HV/H=1 6.6%
http://www.buildinghistory.org/dista...cientdna.shtml
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/ancien...pean_dna.shtml
R or and decendant of R=1 6.6%
mtDNA R is the mother of most non African mtDNA haplogroups but this one was almost definlley in the Caucasian family so it was either RO/HV/H U/K pre JT/JT/T/J

Y DNA from Neloithic Catolnia Spain 7,000ybp 6 samples

G2a=5, E1b1b V13=1

the mtDNA haplogroups from 236 samples of Iberians from 7,000-4,340ybp is almost completly identical to modern Iberians and most modern Europeans in my other thread i showed [I]86 mtDNA samples from Germany they are 6,625-4,025ybp they also almost completely match modern Europeans mtDNA http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...NA-from-German

Surprisingly mtDNA H was also over 40% for pre Neolithic Iberian mtDNA like most modern Europeans but almost all mtDNA from pre Neolithic Europe is U the oldest sample of mtDNA H in Europe is on the south tip of Italy and it is 28,000 years old mtDNA H probably migrated to Europe from its place of origin which is the mid east about 33,000-36,000ybp it would have migrated to Europe right after the time it was born about 36,000-40,000ybp

there is a 20,000-18,000 year old mtDNA sample from solutrian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean
Nerja Spain which is at the southern tip of Spain all they could tell is it was in the RO family mtDNA RO is very old it is about 45,000-50,000 years old today it is almost only found around Arabia and it probaley never migrated to Europe mtDNA RO is the mother of HV and the grandmother of H

mtDNA HV is also very old about 40,000-45,000ybp today it is almost only found around Iraq mtDNA HV did migrate to Europe because it has a daughter mtDNA V which originated in Europe 15,000ybp so this sample had either mtDNA HV or H

there where three mtDNA samples in Cantabrina Magdolnion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalenian
northern Spain from 15,000ybp two had H one of them had mtDNA H6 which today is mainly in eastern Europe this may mean it migrated there from Spain or that it migrated to Spain and is over 15,000 years old one of the samples had mtDNA U5 which is the oldest mtDNA haplogroup to orignate in Europe it is 50,000-55,000 years old

mtDNA H1,H3 and V all are about 15,000 years old, originated in northern Spain, and have similar distribution http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0056775

these mtDNA haplogroups then migrated acroos Europe and north west Africa many experts believe these people are a major ancestral source for all modern Europeans so that makes Spain very important for Europeans ancestry this people group lived during the last ice age alot of Europe was uninhabitable they where taking refuge in Spain experts call it the Iberian refuge http://genome.cshlp.org/content/15/1/19.full

12,000 year old mtDNA 21 samples from Mooroco which is in north west Africa

H/V/U=12, H=4, H/V=3, V=2
http://www.buildinghistory.org/dista...ricaadna.shtml

the source said HV/H/V/U i changed it because there is no way it could have had HV also one of the samples said R mtDNA R is over 60,000 years old today its subclades only exsist in India and parts of east Asia and Australia but since North Africans are Caucasians there is no way they had R and since mtDNA RO is 50,000 years old and never migrated to North Africa or Europe i knew that was not it so the only possible results are H and V

mtDNA V originated 15,000ybp in the northern Spain so this means those Iberian refuge people did not just migrate across Europe four of the samples had mtDNA H but 14 more could have had H since so many where undecided but H was a possibility in all of them

modern north west Africans have 15-35% mtDNA H1 and H3 the Turags in Libya have 61% mtDNA H1
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0013378"]http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0013378[/URL] the rest of North Africa and mid east is less 5% uselly less than 1% in the rest of Europe they average about 10-20% it is highest inn northern Spain at 40% and central and southern Scandnavia at 25-35%

also north west Africans have about 5% mtDNA V this haplogroups is almost never found in the mid east and other parts of North Africa it is about 3-5% in Europe and highest in northern Spain at 15-25% and in far northern Scandinavian Sami people at 50%. since 12,000ybp mtDNA in Morocco had V and alot of H these people where probably Spanish immigrants and represent Iberians mtDNA 12,000ybp and they had mainly mtDNA H same with pre Neolithic Iberian remains so Iberian over 12,000ybp probabley had 40-60% mtDNA H

North west Africans also have 1-5% mtDNA U5b which also originated in Europe and is the most popular group for pre Neloithci Europeans the subclade of North African U5b is most relted to Sami in northern Scandnavia the common ancester of north African and Sami U5b is estimated at 9,600ybp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populat...cs_of_the_Sami this U5b subclade takes up about 50% of Sami mtDNA this means Sami people and north Africans got their U5b from the Iberian refuge the other 50% of Sami mtDNA is V which also came from the Iberian refuge

so mtDNA haplogroups from this group that spread out of northern Spain 15,000ybp is found all over Europe and north west Africa which means they made migrations in those areas

the oldest human genome was found in northern Spain it is a 7,000 year old hunter gather named La Brana it is unrelated to modern Iberian's and southern Europeans he is most related to northern Europeans mainly Sami and Finnish people
http://fennoscandia.blogspot.com/201...-european.html

there are genomes of two farmers in Europe one is the famous Otzi the ice man he is 5,300ybp and from alps Italy another is 5,000 years old farmer from south Sweden they where most related to modern southern Europeans mainly Sardinia people they also have Genomes of three hunter gathers in south Sweden from 5,000ybp and La Brana in north Spain 7,000ybp they where all most relted to northern Europeans mainly Sami and finnish people just like

here is the K7b austomnal DNA of them


and this is a link to a website that explians ther austomnal DNA in more depth http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/07...vasion-of.html

Sami people have specific mtDNA u5b subclade and V subclade these groups take up 100% of their mtDNA both groups are estimated as 8,000 years old this means Sami people have lived in north Scandinavia for at least 8,000 years and since 100% of their mtDNA comes from that people group that migrated out of Spain 15,000ybp and that they are the closest modern relatives to Genomes of European hunter gathers this could mean Sami people are the closest modern relatives to the Iberian refuge group that migrated across Europe and north Africa 15,000ybp and Sami people are probably from the first Scandinavians 11,000ybp

Iberia has 236 mtDNA samples from the Neolithic age that is way higher than any other region in the world I think it is enough mtDNA to say what haplogroups Neolithic Iberians had it shows they had the same haplogroups as most modern Europeans

And Iberian Ice age refuge 15,000ybp spread alot of mtDNA groups acroos Europe and North west Africa and are probably a major ancestral source of modern Europeans and where probably the first setllers of Scandinavia so Iberia is important for all Europeans ancestry and somewhat important for ancestry of north west Africans

Here are 15,000 year old Magdalonian carvings from La Marche cave in western France near the area of the Iberian refuge so these people in the carvings might be related http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Marche_(cave)






Here are some other Threads i made about ancient DNA
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...NA-from-German

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...an-or-European

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...3-800-1-900ybp

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...-000-8-000-ybp

[Lábaru]

Cantabrina?

[Fire Haired]

Cantabrina?

what are u trying to say

[Lábaru]

what are u trying to say

Is Cantabrian(sea ​​or coast or land) and Braña study is of only two individuals, too unreliable, both the study and his interpretation.

[Fire Haired]

the La Brana study was not unreadble and when u say Cantabrian if u mean the three mtDNA samples from Magdaleaen Cantabrian from what i know it is offical they had H6,H, and U5

since La Brana who was a hunter was most relted to northern Europeans mainly Sami and Finnish people this means modern Iberians are mainly descended from people who came in Neolithic times probably 7,000-10,000ybp and also have some blood from La brana people

[Lábaru]

the La Brana study was not unreadble and when u say Cantabrian if u mean the three mtDNA samples from Magdaleaen Cantabrian from what i know it is offical they had H6,H, and U5

since La Brana who was a hunter was most relted to northern Europeans mainly Sami and Finnish people this means modern Iberians are mainly descended from people who came in Neolithic times probably 7,000-10,000ybp and also have some blood from La brana people

that's the point, you can not judge the whole peninsula by two individuals, even the DNA of the two individuals is not fully analysed.

[Fire Haired]

i know it is not enough but there is also 4 out of 8 mtDNA remains in Portugal from 7,500-9,500ybp had mtDNA H

and mtDNA H1 and H3 originated in northern Spain and are most popular in that area at about 40% and over all it is about 25-35% in Iberia and it did not come in any recent migrations because that is where it originated about 50-70% of Iberian mtDNA was already there over 10,000yb aka before the Neolithic age same with most of Europe

and those 12,000 year old mtDNA remains i mentioned two of them had mtDNA V which originated in northern Spain about 15,000ybp so these where Iberian immigrants and it came from the Iberian refuge migrators and Iberian mtDNA from the Iberian refuge is still popular in north west Africa today there has been alot of research on this and they concluded by looking at teh DNA and age testing it that H1,H3,V, and U5b came to north west africa from a migration about 8,000-9,000ybphttp://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0013378

i would bring it up to 12,000-15,000ybp but what this proves is that the Iberian mtDNA in north west africa is not from recent inter marriage and those 12,000 year old mtDNA remains in moorco where actulley Iberian immigrants and they had mainly mtDNA H so that is another reason why i think Iberians 12,000-15,000ybp had mainly mtDNA H

modern Iberians have basically the same mtDNA as Mesolithic and Paleolithic Iberians 10,000-15,000ybp the only groups that came from mid eastern farmers are T2b,K,H5,H13,U1, and U7 they take up small percentages of Europeans and Iberians mtDNA

[Fire Haired]

Since u are Iberian here is some stuff about the origin of modern Iberians

the LA Brana who was a hunter gather in northern Spain from 7,000ybp was most related to modern northern Europeans mainly Sami and Finnish people just like 5,000ybp hunter gathers in south Sweden this probably means most of modern Iberians are from people who came in the Neolithic age the austomnal DNA of farmers in Europe from over 5,000ybp is most related to southern Europeans like Iberians

but like i said in the other post about 50-75% of Iberian mtDNA has been there for 10,000-15,000 years the groups are H1,H3,V, and U the reason u know this is sure is H1,H3,and V originated in Spain 15,000ybp they don't come from the Neolithic age and the U subclades that take up Iberian U are very rare in the mid east and mainly found in Europeans and all are over 30,000 years old and most originated in Europe


most of Iberians blood and ancestry came there in Neloithci times but there mtDNA is mainly from pre Neolithic Iberians H1,H3, and V all originated in northern Spain and are are 15,000 years old and take up 30-55% of mtDNA in Iberia and about 15% of modern Iberians mtDNA is U and just about all of it is from pre NEloithci Europe except for U1 and U7 which are less than 1% so at least 50-70% of modern Iberian mtDNA lineages are pre Neloithic ( over 10,000ybp)

so the farmers in Iberia 7,000ybp where the same people as modern Iberians i think they where a mix of the native Iberians and incoming northern Anatolian farmers who had Y DNA G2a the native hunter gathers had I2a1 and I2a today about 60% of Iberians have Y DNA R1b S116 but this haplogroups is only 4,500-5,000 years old it came to Europe with Indo European Italo Celtic and Germanic languages http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml

the Celts brought R1b to Spain about from 3,000-2,300ybp the Celts where central Europeans the Romans directly said the Gauls looked different from Iberians they said the Gauls where blonde haired and had snow white skin the Iberians where dark haired and olive or white skinned i dont live in Iberia but i am pretty sure that is what modern ones look like so modern Iberians defintley don't have mainly Celtic ancestry they come from the pre Indo European Iberians who definally come from the Neolithic Iberians

Y DNA I2a1a1 is a pre Indo European Y DNA haplogroup it only exists in Iberia,France, Italy and Sardina when i was trying to find the Y DNA haplogroups of the Iberians i got a map from 2,300bp of Iberia i saw the non Celtic speaking areas it perfectly matches the highest areas of I2a1a in Iberia and the Basque who still are not Indo European have the highest amount at 10-15%



also there was two Y DNA I2a1a samples from 5,000 year old south western French Neolithic remains this means that the main ancestor group of modern Iberian originally had a Y DNA haplogroup that was from Neolithic western Europe

in a thread i made a theory i have a map of all the different ethnic groups in Europe and a list of their Y DNA haplogroups and hair and eye color
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...-000-8-000-ybp

Y DNA I2a1 is over 10,000 years old and is from Mesolithic Europe but I2a1a is just over 8,000 years old and probably spread Neolithic times the northern Anatolian G2a invaded the native Y DNA I groups in Europe the G2a northern Anatolian people also gave the farmers in Europe a less northern European austomnal DNA the majority of ancestry of southern Europeans probably come from a mix northern European type hunter gathers and northern Anatolian type farmers

basically what i am trying to say is modern Iberians are mainly descended from Neolithic Iberians and have lived there for over 7,000 years and they are a mix of north European hunter gather type like La Brana and north Anatolian farmer type and most mtDNA lineages in Iberia where already there 15,000 years ago but Y DNA J1,J2, and E1b1b are 16-25% in Iberia J2 and J1 definally came in Greco Roman times E1b1b V13 was found in a 7,000 year old farmer in north spain so it was already i Spain but most of it probably came in Greco Roman times so that is another part of Iberians ancestry

also Italo Celtic Y DNA R1b S116 is over 50-60% in Iberia it came mainly when celts migrated there 3,000-2,3000ybp the Celts are not the main ancestors of Iberian but most of Spain was Celt Iberian or Celtic before 2,300ybp their culture was very similar to Celts but their blood was mainly Iberian so modern Iberian have some celtic blood and since a few mtDNA remains from Neolithic Iberia over 6,000ybp had sub sahren African Y DNA L2a and L3 this means there was a little bit of sub sahren african inter marriage but it was probably spread by north Africans who when they where in Africa inter married then spread that lineage to Iberia so Iberians have at least a tiny bit of sub Saharan African blood more than anyone else in Europe and they defintley have some North African blood

please tell me what u think about my opinion on the origins of Iberian people

[Damião de Góis]

the Celts brought R1b to Spain about from 3,000-2,300ybp the Celts where central Europeans the Romans directly said the Gauls looked different from Iberians they said the Gauls where blonde haired and had snow white skin the Iberians where dark haired and olive or white skinned i dont live in Iberia but i am pretty sure that is what modern ones look like so modern Iberians defintley don't have mainly Celtic ancestry they come from the [B][I]pre Indo European Iberians who definally come from the Neolithic Iberians

Almost everyone here is R1b, so what you say makes no sense. Either R1b is not celtic, or iberians have mainly celtic ancestry... which i doubt because that would mean massive population replacement.

Also R1b is high in non-celtic speaking areas (in pre-roman times) like Catalonia or Basque Country.

[Fire Haired]

Y DNA is just a direct lineage like alast name my last name comes from scotland but i am only 15% scottish Iberians do have 60% Celtic Y DNA but that does not make them CEltic R1b L11 which is teh type western europe has is only 5,000 years old the INdo Europeans spread it sacross europe that does not make everyone indo europeans and there was not a population replacment in Spain and Portugal the Celts uslley had the upperhand in the wars there so the celts replaced the old y DNA haplogroups in Iberia

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...1b_Y-DNA.shtml

just because u have R1b Y DNA does not means u have 100% celtic or whatever ancestry it is just ur direct lineage

finnish people have mainly Y DNA N1c1 which is north east siberia but do finnish look east asian no maybe some rarelly do the reason why they have so much north east asian Y DNA is tehy where conquered about 7,000ybp people get very confused and think ur yu dna haplogroup is ur full ancestry

but it is true that there was some population replacement that happned in western europe because of teh R1b L11 INdo Europeans everyone with red hair probably has mainly R1b L11 Indo European ancestry all red hair in western Europehttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zkDGe4ZGqrCHfg

except in parts of Scandinavia and the udmurt people comes from the r1b l11 Indo Europeans and since red hair in frane, germany,British isles, and southern scandnavia is about 5% that means people in those areas have alot of r1b L11 Indo European ancestry and since red hair is such a recessive gene that mens the R1b L11 INdo Europeans had to almost replace the population that used to live there