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Thread: Australia Unleashes Draconian New Anti-Terror Law In Orwellian Orgy Of Baseless Fear-Mongering

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    Veteran Member Methmatician's Avatar
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    The redundancy of new anti-terrorism laws

    Incitement to violence is against the law. It's always been against the law. Every Australian state penalises incitement. The Commonwealth makes it unlawful to incite the commissioning of any criminal offence, not just violence. This legal framework has developed over centuries. The prohibition on incitement has ancient common law roots. It is robust. It is coherent. It is a long-established and very well-founded limit on free speech.

    So here's a question: with the rich and robust law against incitement, why is the Abbott Government introducing the new offence of "advocating terrorism"? Last week the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment (Foreign Fighters) Bill 2014 was introduced into Parliament. Like the first national security bill that preceded it, it is dense and complex - a mix of sensible change mixed in with redundancy and extraordinary overreach.

    I argued in The Drum a few weeks ago that the foreign fighter threat is both genuine and pressing. We've seen over the last fortnight how events in distant Iraq have materially changed the security environment in Australia. Many proposed legislative changes - particularly to foreign evidence laws and passport confiscation powers - make sense.

    But the new bill goes much further than that. The bill makes it illegal to visit some parts of the world without proving to a court that you visited for family or humanitarian reasons. It extends the control order regime and expands detention powers held by customs.

    And it makes it illegal to advocate - counsel, promote, encourage, or urge - the doing of a terrorist act or the commission of a terrorist offense. (The section in the new bill is 80.2C.)

    On its face this is extraordinary. The word terrorism is a term of art. A lot of people call Israel a terrorist state. Others respond that Palestine is terroristic.

    More concretely, the Commonwealth Criminal Code defines a terrorist act as any action that a) causes or threatens harm to life, property, risk to health, or disruption of electronic infrastructure; b) is motivated by a political, religious or ideological cause; and c) is intended to intimidate the government or the public in general. (See section 100.1 of the Commonwealth Criminal Code here.)

    The definition is broad because it has to be. What we describe as "terrorism" is really a collection of offenses. Every part of a terror plot is potentially prosecutable under laws that have been around for centuries. These include the most obvious - murder and attempted murder - down to things like conspiracy and weapons possession.

    Indeed, as Bret Walker, the former Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, told the Australian Human Rights Commission's free speech conference in August: "One of the best arguments against the counter-terrorist laws is that we didn't need any of them, because we've long criminalised murder, conspiracy to murder, and incitement to murder."

    There are, certainly, some conceptual distinctions between traditional crime and terrorism. The latter is primarily intended to create fear. And governments hope to prevent terrorist acts rather than just punish them after the fact. Those differences perhaps justify some distinct anti-terror legislation.

    But since September 11 governments have seemed intent on severing the concept of terrorism from its constituent parts - cleaving it off into a distinct body of law. This has created, as Bret Walker pointed out, massive redundancy, complication and confusion. The real winners from this decade of security hyper-legislation are lawyers.

    Just how much redundancy has been piled into our anti-terror laws? Well, in 2005 the Howard government passed sedition law reform that, in the words of the then-attorney general, Philip Ruddock, was intended to prohibit "any conduct or advocacy that is likely to encourage somebody to carry out a terrorist act". Sound familiar?

    It's striking how little justification the Government has offered for the new advocating terrorism offense - let alone an account of why existing incitement or the 2005 sedition laws are inadequate. But it appears the advocating terrorism offence isn't just one of the dozens of new crimes and security powers in the Government's voluminous anti-terror bills. No, it seems to be the key to whole thing. It has deep political significance.

    Think back to August, when the Government announced its turn towards national security. That announcement was made at a press conference where Tony Abbott also said he was abandoning the promise to repeal section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act. We were told this was a matter of clearing the decks so everybody could get behind Team Australia.

    Yet last week Fairfax reported Abbott shelved free speech reform so section 18C could be used against Islamic hate preachers.

    This makes the August press conference even more disingenuous than it appeared at the time. It seems the Government believes advocating terrorism and offending, insulting, humiliating or intimidating on the basis of race or ethnic origin are two sides of the same coin. The promised reforms to section 18C weren't a "complication". They were directly contrary to the Government's desire to suppress speech that would otherwise be free.


    Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-3...m-laws/5778076

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    Quote Originally Posted by Methmatician View Post
    That has no relevance to today.
    Yeah, right. They do not attempt to impose Sharia law all over the world today... Their outrage over criticism of Islam, whether that is silly cartoons or a serious debate, is perfectly normal. People should be murdered for offending the prophet, as most Muslims all over the world suggest...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    Yeah, right. They do not attempt to impose Sharia law all over the world today... Their outrage over criticism of Islam, whether that is silly cartoons or a serious debate, is perfectly normal. People should be murdered for offending the prophet, as most Muslims all over the world suggest...
    Hmmm. Not a single thing to back up your claims.

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    Thank you for posting these. As you can see not all Muslims all over the world agree on every issue so why are you saying "as most Muslims all over the world suggest"? Are you purposely trying to shoot yourself in the foot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Methmatician View Post
    Thank you for posting these. As you can see not all Muslims all over the world agree on every issue so why are you saying "as most Muslims all over the world suggest"? Are you purposely trying to shoot yourself in the foot?
    >50% all over the world support Sharia law. I consider them to be the most Muslims since they are above 50% of the total Muslim population globally. Just because in a few countries they are the minority, that does not mean the global picture is any different...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    >50% all over the world support Sharia law. I consider them to be the most Muslims since they are above 50% of the total Muslim population globally. Just because in a few countries they are the minority, that does not mean the global picture is any different...
    Except you're applying a generalisation based on statistics on another country. You're saying "Well in this country they mostly support Shariah law therefore all Muslims countries are seeking the same thing". You're being stupid here. Are you even aware that Islam has sects with varying views on topics like Shariah Law? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't.

    Lets read the statistics:

    Shariah Law
    13 oppose
    25 favour

    4 of those who oppose are in Europe
    5 of those who oppose are in Central Asia
    All (6) those in Asia mostly favour
    6 in favour in the Middle-East and North Africa with 1 opposing
    3 oppose in Sub-Saharan Africa with 13 in favour

    Do you see a pattern? Most European and Central Asian Muslims do not want Shariah Law. And most who Muslims around the world believe Shariah Law should only apply to Muslims. I still wouldn't trust governments trying to implement Shariah Law but we're talking about the opinions of Muslims.

    So you're wrong. Muslims don't believe in stoning, beheading, and your statistics say nothing about the issue of portraying Muhammad. And lastly, your statistics show that there are more Muslims around the world who support religious freedom than Shariah Law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Methmatician View Post
    Except you're applying a generalisation based on statistics on another country. You're saying "Well in this country they mostly support Shariah law therefore all Muslims countries are seeking the same thing". You're being stupid here. Are you even aware that Islam has sects with varying views on topics like Shariah Law? I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't.

    Lets read the statistics:

    Shariah Law
    13 oppose
    25 favour

    4 of those who oppose are in Europe
    5 of those who oppose are in Central Asia
    All (6) those in Asia mostly favour
    6 in favour in the Middle-East and North Africa with 1 opposing
    3 oppose in Sub-Saharan Africa with 13 in favour

    Do you see a pattern? Most European and Central Asian Muslims do not want Shariah Law. And most who Muslims around the world believe Shariah Law should only apply to Muslims. I still wouldn't trust governments trying to implement Shariah Law but we're talking about the opinions of Muslims.

    So you're wrong. Muslims don't believe in stoning, beheading, and your statistics say nothing about the issue of portraying Muhammad. And lastly, your statistics show that there are more Muslims around the world who support religious freedom than Shariah Law.
    Even those European Muslims who do not accept Sharia law in their majority are not exactly a negligible number. There have been countless terrorists within their ranks recently, haven't you noticed? Why should the European states host prospective terrorists in their soil instead of sending all of them where they came from? Do we need to grant asylum to any people whose 1% shall support terrorism at some point in their lifetime? It's not worth it!

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