North African and Neareastern geneflow in Europe

[Petalpusher]

Well, this is my last post in this thread (hopefully this time for good), can't be spending 2-4 hours each day writing here, I'm sure it's the same for you. What we agree on we agree, and what we disagree on, time will surely tell. I'll fly away now

Let's say i agree on most, just two things:

Im unsure if i understand you wrong, or you believe the gradient is an actual percentage of SSA. It's not, it's a value of IBD, just wanted to clear that up for everybody anyway (like the N.African isn't a value in percentage)

About the Basque Spanish being the "Iberian", if it's the peak it was sourced on it, closely related people around are still gonna score high, even high as them, but then all their other score begin to diverge. It's not because for example if i had an half Japanese sibling and we still share 50% of our dna, it would make me part Japanese. Different scenario : if i create a "Germanic" component based on Danemark/S.Sweden for example (i think Passa had this idea once). Why would it comes with Saami stuff if all these people don't have any Saami related bits? it would not. Yet Saami would still score one of the highest on it.

Higher K is picking up things more in fragments, it has both advantages and disadvantages. It is the basic procedure in any study to run both high and low K to make sure what we look at is really, what it is.

ps: I meant that left/right side as an anology of auctionning not that is was higher in the east! (ahah just realized that)

[Sikeliot]

Let's say i agree on most, just two things:

Im unsure if i understand you wrong, or you believe the gradient is an actual percentage of SSA. It's not, it's a value of IBD, just wanted to clear that up for everybody anyway (like the N.African isn't a value in percentage)

About the Basque Spanish being the "Iberian", if it's the peak it was sourced on it, closely related people around are still gonna score high, even high as them, but then all their other score begin to diverge. It's not because for example if i had an half Japanese sibling and we still share 50% of our dna, it would make me part Japanese. Different scenario : if i create a "Germanic" component based on Danemark/S.Sweden for example (i think Passa had this idea once). Why would it comes with Saami stuff if all these people don't have any Saami related bits? it would not. Yet Saami would still score one of the highest on it.

Higher K is picking up things more in fragments, it has both advantages and disadvantages. It is the basic procedure in any study to run both high and low K to make sure what we look at is really, what it is.

Doesn't IBD show how recent the match is? I.e. someone could be more SSA autosomally but have lower IBD because it is further back?

[Petalpusher]

Doesn't IBD show how recent the match is? I.e. someone could be more SSA autosomally but have lower IBD because it is further back?

The amount will be the same but the segments will be more spread out, so it could introduce some false negative, also false positive (statistically it balances itself anyway) but it won't go away that easily, not in the kind of timeframe we are talking about. Of course it's easier to have a good reading when it's something tangible, decimals differences yes, but not integer differences. We are still taking about relatively low levels of MENA in Europe it can be a bit shaky in some places but the general pattern is very clear imo, like on the pca or the map.

[Imamudin]

The N.Africans input, even if little most of the time, stops or become insignificant in northern Spain and Basques. The datas are here, we don't score any. We cannot invent it just to please you.

The map above is bullshit. I mean SSA and NA admixture in Russia and Kazakhstan, even higher than in France??? Come on!

[Sikeliot]

Here is what I am confused about.

Central Sicily there is a lighter color on par with northern/central Greece, while coastal Sicily and Peloponnese are darker. But based on autosomal DNA, central Sicily shifts heavily into West Asia and they have a lot of Armenian-like admixture. So why is their color lighter on the map?

[Petalpusher]

Here is what I am confused about.

Central Sicily there is a lighter color on par with northern/central Greece, while coastal Sicily and Peloponnese are darker. But based on autosomal DNA, central Sicily shifts heavily into West Asia and they have a lot of Armenian-like admixture. So why is their color lighter on the map?

Are you talking about the neareastern IBD? The neareastern isn't sourced in the Caucasus but Saudi Qatar and Egyptians (could have been better samples)

[Sikeliot]

Are you talking about the neareastern IBD? The neareastern isn't sourced in the Caucasus but Saudi Qatar and Egyptians (could have been better samples)

That makes sense. The inland of Sicily is very Caucasus shifted. But IBD is not autosomal, so I guess it's not a perfect guide.

[Petalpusher]

Not necessarily. For example the Valencian DOD375 scores 2.6% Northwest-African but 0% SSA and 0% East-African. Same with the Catalan DOD217 or the other Valencian DOD189.


Also with nMonte stats and selecting close european populations who have 0% NA gives me similar percentages (2.9%) and it prefers Mozabite over Moroccans :

Valencia_1KG
"French_Basque" 50.3
"North_Italian" 39.8
"Lithuanians" 6
"Mozabite" 2.65
"French" 0.5
"Georgians" 0.3
"Moroccans" 0.25

[1] "distance%=0.0451 / distance=0.000451"

The distance is very short, so it's a very good fit.

I don't want to argue about a couple of percent, i ve tried to give a realistic range.

The "Spanish" average is

Northwest Africa : 5.11
SSA 0.40
East Africa 0.20


What the average score is "Moroccan", not the Mozabite it would be a problem since being the 100% peak N.African they score only 0.50% SSA in the spreadsheet.. (it's all embedded in the N.African), and that would make the average Spanish as SSA as Mozabite appear to be. Obviously it's not the reality.

"Moroccan_North" on average score 44% Northwest African and 4% SSA. Spanish 5.11 NA + 0.50 SSA (0.40 West Africa + 0.20 East Africa (half is W.Africa)). It's EXACTLY the same 10:1 ratio . but i guess those who are on the lower end, can appear more as Mozabite than Moroccans (not that there is a big difference).

[Ibericus]

I don't want to argue about a couple of percent, i ve tried to give a realistic range.

The "Spanish" average is

Northwest Africa : 5.11
SSA 0.40
East Africa 0.20


What the average score is "Moroccan", not the Mozabite it would be a problem since being the 100% peak N.African they score only 0.50% SSA in the spreadsheet.. (it's all embedded in the N.African), and that would make the average Spanish as SSA as Mozabite appear to be. Obviously it's not the reality.

"Moroccan_North" on average score 44% Northwest African and 4% SSA. Spanish 5.11 NA + 0.50 SSA (0.40 West Africa + 0.20 East Africa (half is W.Africa)). It's EXACTLY the same 10:1 ratio . but i guess those who are on the lower end, can appear more as Mozabite than Moroccans (not that there is a big difference).

Don't know what spreadsheet you're looking at, the East-Africa is 0%, not 0.20% ; but anyways, I was talking about Eastern-Spaniards specifically, but that Spanish_D sample is not balanced because it has a lot of galicians. The "Spaniards" sample instead from Behar et al. (it has 6 catalans and 6 andalusians) scores :
3.0% NA + 0% East-Africa + 0.1% SSA

And Cataluña:
2.4% NA + 0% East-Africa + 0% SSA

Aragón :
3.4% NA + 0% East-Africa + 0% SSA

[Bell Beaker]

Don't know what spreadsheet you're looking at, the East-Africa is 0%, not 0.20% , but that Spanish_D sample is not balanced because it has a lot of galicians. The "Spaniard" sample for example (6 catalans and 6 andalusians) has :
3.0% NA + 0% East-Africa + 0.1% SSA

Andalusians are largely of Northern Descent even more than other other Southern Iberian groups like Alentejans and Algarvians.

I think people from the rural areas and small towns are more ethnic Andalusian....