Your feelings towards different countries

[Ibericus]

You said it had nothing to do with wanting to be with Spain or not. Well, if there was a Republic proclaimed that separated Catalonia from Spain, allow to me believe the opposite. Even if it was within the protection of France -logical, in that context.

As for centralism in Spain, it won't be because Spaniards have not tried for three centuries to put an end to Catalan. Today, the PP is going to win with an absolute majority. Let's see how much it takes for them to attack language immersion in Catalonia and even dare force the Catalan TV channels to broadcast in Spanish...

The Guerra dels Segadors was because because of the bad conoditions of farmers, it was quite common in that time around Europe, the farmer's revolts, and the presence of castillian and french troops, (also Italian) because of the war between France and Spain, (Guerra dels Trenta anys) nothing to do with any catalan indendence and other fantasies. The hypocrisy of all this, is that catalanists don't like to mention the submission to France, the submission to Louis XIII. That's the truth of Els Segadors.

[Comte Arnau]

The Guerra dels Segadors was because because of the bad conoditions of farmers, it was quite common in that time around Europe, the farmer's revolts, and the presence of castillian and french troops, (also Italian) because of the war between France and Spain, (Guerra dels Trenta anys) nothing to do with any catalan indendence and other fantasies. The hypocrisy of all this, is that catalanists don't like to mention the submission to France, the submission to Louis XIII. That's the truth of Els Segadors.

Lol. I'll frankly never understand that obsession of Spaniards to deny or downplay everything Catalan. It looks as if you can't be a good Spanish nationalist if you don't.

The truth is there, regardless of what you or I say. The fact that the origin of the revolt was an abuse of Castilians on Catalan farmers is true. The fact that urban Catalans, always more politically conscious, took profit from it and turned the conflict into a political one, eventually proclaiming an independent Republic, is true too. If you are one of those who like to say that all history books by Catalan authors are conspirations full of lies and all the blah blah blah, well, that's your problem, I can't do anything for that.

[Ibericus]

The truth is there, regardless of what you or I say. The fact that the origin of the revolt was an abuse of Castilians on Catalan farmers is true. The fact that urban Catalans, always more politically conscious, took profit from it and turned the conflict into a political one, eventually proclaiming an independent Republic, is true too. If you are one of those who like to say that all history books by Catalan authors are conspirations full of lies and all the blah blah blah, well, that's your problem, I can't do anything for that.

An indepdendent Catalonia under the French monarchy. It was a political and military pact with France. So, they wanted to get out of hispanic monarchy to enter the french monarchy.

[Comte Arnau]

An indepdendent Catalonia under the French monarchy. It was a political and military pact with France. So, they wanted to get out of hispanic monarchy to enter the french monarchy.

So I guess Andorra isn't an independent country for you either, is it?

[Ibericus]

So I guess Andorra isn't an independent country for you either, is it?

1. Andorra is not part of the Spanish monarchy
2. Monarchies today have nothing to do with monarchies of those times
3. Catalonia was already under the same situation with Spain than they would have been with France.

[Comte Arnau]

1. Andorra is not part of the Spanish monarchy
2. Monarchies today have nothing to do with monarchies of those times
3. Catalonia was already under the same situation with Spain than they would have been with France.

Catalonia was actually an independent Republic for a whole year (1641), as independence was proclaimed in January and, even if the invasion of the Spanish troops only one week later forced the Catalans to call for Louis XIII's protection, he wouldn't actually take an oath to the Catalan Laws until December 30th.

Besides this, in practice, Catalonia had begun to behave independently already at the beginning of the war, in September 1640. So in truth, for about 15 months, Catalan authorities ruled in Catalonia with subjection to no king, appointing new judges, levying new taxes, minting new coins, organizing a militia... A free republic which, I concede, was bound to fail in that context.

Oh, and I also concede another thing to you. Had Catalonia become a part of France, things would have been even worse, of course.

As for Andorra, it could be considered part of the French "monarchy", as Sarkozy is one of its two princes. Not to mention that they are under French protection, if any country tries to invade it.

[Ibericus]

Catalonia was actually an independent Republic for a whole year (1641), as independence was proclaimed in January and, even if the invasion of the Spanish troops only one week later forced the Catalans to call for Louis XIII's protection, he wouldn't actually take an oath to the Catalan Laws until December 30th.

Besides this, in practice, Catalonia had begun to behave independently already at the beginning of the war, in September 1640. So in truth, for about 15 months, Catalan authorities ruled in Catalonia with subjection to no king, appointing new judges, levying new taxes, minting new coins, organizing a militia... A free republic which, I concede, was bound to fail in that context.

Oh, and I also concede another thing to you. Had Catalonia become a part of France, things would have been even worse, of course.

As for Andorra, it could be considered part of the French "monarchy", as Sarkozy is one of its two princes. Not to mention that they are under French protection, if any country tries to invade it.

The pact with France had a treacherous end, France stole the norhern territories (with the prohibition of catalan, among other things, which was a break of the pact) while Phillip IV of Spain continued to respect the Catalan laws.

[Comte Arnau]

The pact with France had a treacherous end, France stole the norhern territories (with the prohibition of catalan, among other things, which was a break of the pact) while Phillip IV of Spain continued to respect the Catalan laws.

Now that is indeed true, unfortunately. It doesn't make Spain any better, it's just that France was even worse. Actually, it's with the next Phillip, the arrival of the French Bourbons to the Spanish monarchy, that things began to get worse and worse. And they are still ruling...