Macedonian and Bulgarians

[Faklon]

East Bulgaria was heavy populated with Slavophone Macedonian and Aromanian migrants.

Entire black Sea region from coast near Moldova down to Bulgaria is very Paleo Balkan shifted and has lot of recent Balkan ancestry.

Entire Black Sea region had been colonized by Greek/Greek-speaking merchantile populations since antiquity and continued to do so in the middle-ages until the population exchange with Bulgaria.





You may find as many original Slavic toponyms there as you may find in Peloponnese.

People from Skopje speak a Bulgarian dialect and their history is Tsar Samuel, naturally as South-West Bulgarians they would have some affinity to their neighbors.

[Vojnik]

There is also minor Byzantine/Anatolian admix in south Balkans.



Except that Montenegro has separate medieval statehood from Serbia/Raška, based on Catholic Duklja and Zeta principalities.
Meanwhile modern northern Macedonia doesn't have medieval history separated from Bulgarian Empire except when later it was part of Serbian Empire.

Now I am not saying Macedonians aren't their own thing as they clearly evolved to that but so are Montenegrins and from historical perspective they have more of their own uniqueness.

People who claim anyone as anything are idiots. Macedonians aren't Bulgarians, Montenegrins aren't Serbs (not speaking about 30% Serbs who live there), Moldovans in RM aren't Romanians.
Bosniaks aren't Croats and Serbs.

Nations aren't blood groups. There is extremely small difference genetically and linguistically between Scandinavians and nobody in their right mind would deny them their states, languages and identity.
Only in primitive Balkans where people (not you necessarily) think they have right to command to others what their nation is.

Depends if how you describe Czar Samoil, who was of the Cometopuli dynasty. And whos home capital and centre was around the Ohrid region, far from the Original Bulgar capital Pliska (north east Bulgaria).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_of_Bulgaria

[Jana]

Depends if how you describe Czar Samoil, who was of the Cometopuli dynasty. And whos home capital and centre was around the Ohrid region, far from the Original Bulgar capital Pliska (north east Bulgaria).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_of_Bulgaria

Serbian Empire also had it's capital in modern day north Macedonia.

[Jana]

Entire Black Sea region had been colonized by Greek/Greek-speaking merchantile populations since antiquity and continued to do so in the middle-ages until the population exchange with Bulgaria.





You may find as many original Slavic toponyms there as you may find in Peloponnese.

People from Skopje speak a Bulgarian dialect and their history is Tsar Samuel, naturally as South-West Bulgarians they would have some affinity to their neighbors.

They don't identify as Bulgarians, so they aren't Bulgarians. Do they have same origins as Bulgarians near them? Yes,more or less. And lot of Bulgarians have origins from Macedonia, more than the opposite.
Same applies to Serbia. Lot of Serbs have Montenegrin ancestry while very few Montenegrins have ancestry from Serbia.

To be part of a Nation main requirenment is to embrace it. I don't consider Bunjevci in Vojvodina who declare ethnically Bunjevac to be Croats (they are minority in their community but I respect it)

[Faklon]

They don't identify as Bulgarians, so they aren't Bulgarians. Do they have same origins as Bulgarians near them? Yes,more or less. And lot of Bulgarians have origins from Macedonia, more than the opposite.
Same applies to Serbia. Lot of Serbs have Montenegrin ancestry while very few Montenegrins have ancestry from Serbia.

To be part of a Nation main requirenment is to embrace it. I don't consider Bunjevci in Vojvodina who declare ethnically Bunjevac to be Croats (they are minority in their community but I respect it)

Anyway, there wasn't any sort of colonization from Skopje to the Black Sea, rural people who sang for Samuel instead of Dragases Palaiologos. Phanariots would be a better bet.

[Varda]

I knew about many Serbs speaking in ijekavian, but wasn't sure if the ijekavian form could be accepted as "Standard Serbian".

The form that the Serbian government promotes/uses is ekavian. It probably would have been better if the Serbian government used ijekavian as the national standard instead of ekavian since the original dialect that Standard Serbian is based off of (East Herzegovinan) is ijekavian and it feels a bit artificial if they use ekavian IMO.

The difference is only a yat reflex, so its a pretty small difference. But I think it would help tell apart someone from Montenegro and someone from Serbia since he asked if its possible to tell apart Montenegrin and Serbian. There are likely other more important things but I don't know them.

Vuk Karadžić reformer of Serbian language took East Herzegovinian neoshtokavian ijekavian for Serbian standard. In Serbia happened ekavization of yat, so his intention has been realized partlly. Standard in Serbia is ekavized East Herzegovinian. Reason for ekavization in Serbia is because large part of Serbia was ekavian (other non East Herzegovinian dialects) and for ekavians is difficult to know when is IJE and when JE in words. Examples of ijekavians words: mlijeko (milk), bijelo (white), snijeg (snow), mjesto (place), vjera (faith) and ekavian words are mleko, belo, sneg, mesto, vera. As you can see in first 3 ijekavian words instead of yat is IJE and in last two is JE, and in ekavian is always E. Ekavian is simpler.
Vuk Karadžić was ijekavian speaker from western Serbia.
Western Serbia, SW Serbia and part of Šumadija once were ijekavian, but happened process of ekavization since second half of 19th century, and today ijekavian in Serbia speak only some older rural people in western and SW Serbia.


100 years ago in Šumadija could still be heard ijekavisn reflex.
Few years before WW1 Ivan Meštrović visited Topola in Šumadija (about 70 km south of Belgrade), and he noticed some specifics of local peasant including speech https://forum.krstarica.com/attachme...ji-jpg.318126/
I will translate part of Meštrović's records from link: I went to Topola with Vučetić, there we were guests with a local peasant. It confirmed my impression that peasants in my region and here are identical. Behavior, custom, everything was same including speech, and much more than in Belgrade where there was Macedonians and people from Morava and Vojvodina. Here in heart of Šumadija I noticed same accent as in my area. They spoke ekavian, but it was little noticed, even not all people spoke ekavian, some of them spoke ijekavian and even ikavian. The peasant who was my host spoke mixed ikavian and said us his grandma spoke like that and their family originated somewhere from Herzegovina or Dalmatia.
Some older women had suits and cloting items on the head as our peasant women in Dalmatia and Herzegovina. When the host in conversation after dinner found out that I have peasant origin from Dalmatia, he wanted to give me female horse...

Ivan Meštrović originated from Dalmatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Meštrović
As you can see he recognized many idehtical things among peasant from Šumadija and peasants from his native region. For Belgrade said people there are different due to settlers from Macedonia, Morava and Vojvodina.
Many Šumadijans have Dinaric origin indeed.

[Crn Volk]

These are Macedonians you are Slavoavar doppleganger wannabes.

Holy fight will never end with Balkan Trash. Rest of Balkans are lovely but Skopjians can suck my balls.

Settle down Vlach boy

[Dušan]

Vuk Karadžić reformer of Serbian language took East Herzegovinian neoshtokavian ijekavian for Serbian standard. In Serbia happened ekavization of yat, so his intention has been realized partlly. Standard in Serbia is ekavized neoshtokavian. Reason for ekavization in Serbia is because large part of Serbia was ekavian (other non East Herzegovinian dialects) and for ekavians is difficult to know when is IJE and when JE in words. Examples of ijekavians words: mlijeko (milk), bijelo (white), snijeg (snow), mjesto (place), djete (child), and ekavian words are mleko, belo, sneg, mesto, dete. As you can see in first 3 ijekavian words instead of yat is IJE and in last 2 is JE, and in ekavian is always E. Ekavian is simpler.
.

Singular is dijete, plural is djeca.

Yes, ekavian is simpler.

[Varda]

Singular is dijete, plural is djeca.

Yes, ekavian is simpler.

Yea, I made a mistake.

[kundur]

Montenegro je Srbija.
Catholics try to take out Serbia's access to open sea, referring to Venetian rule in Kotor and around. Independent Montenegro ruled by pro-Catholic renegades has been a leap forward in that direction. Local folk seems to have been brainwashed that they will appear to be better, more modern and Western, if they separate from Serbia.

Serbs now try to reverse the course of history, nevertheless that won't be easy. Catholics threw the Muslims onto the Serbs, and Serbs were overwhelmed with Eastern Bosnia and Northern Kosovo issues, directing all their attention and efforts over those regions destabilized by Albanians and Bosniaks, in the meantime Montenegro entered into a deep assimilation process and de-Serbianization with Catholicization followed.