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True to some extent once they colonised Africa, the Middle East and Asia, but certainly not during the 'New World' colonisations earlier on. And even Britain's colonisation of India in no small measure helped fuel the Industrial Revolution - having forcefully shut down India's incipient industries in Kolkata in particular, Britain imported lots of Indian cotton to make the products here and export them back to India again, thus artificially creating a trade deficit for the latter.
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F-france-san... all this time? Y-you liked us? B-baka!
I don't think you can claim cultural continuity from a people you conquered that form a minority of your DNA, this would be like Amerindians of today claiming Voltaire. As for China, they developed agriculture independently, no one denies this, and they also domesticated a great number of essential crops and animals, and also techniques, like grafting, as mentioned. Ever had an apple? Thank China.This is again the tropism in all this discussion, they didn't invent it first, but later possibly on their own (unlikely completely) great for them either way, like 2500 BC around the yellow river. The earliest farmers who migrated into Europe with agriculture 6000 years before that became the Europeans, or at least big chunk of them is present in every Europeans (yes even very north). Not saying one is necessarily better than the other, yet on one side everything was created or started elsewhere than Europe and everybody else should take full credit for it, until that applies to East Asians in your book.
It made Europe wealthier. Nice paragraphs.Europeans had colonies because they were wealthy in the first place, not the other way around. It's the most accepted analysis in serious academia before any cancel culture arose. You can disagree with it for some reasons but you are wrong. It's indeed not a debate:
“It was not colonialism and conquest that made possible the rise of the West, but the reverse—it was the rise of the West (in terms of technology) and the decline of the rest that made possible the full extension of European power across the globe.”
"The Rise Of Western Power: A Comparative History Of Western Civilization" explains it very well beyond that abstract.
Africa after 1880 was unproductive, yes, but the sugar colonies of the Caribbean, for example, were a gold mine. Indirect benefits from colonies like 'control of major shipping routes' and 'economic monopolies on client nations' are also highly relevant. Germany had several major African colonies and more in the Pacific, anyhow.Probably one of the best expert of Africa Bernard Lugan demonstrated it brillantly in some of their books like "God bless Africa". Paul Bairoch for India as well in "Economics and World History: Myths and Paradoxes"
Conversely countries without colonies were better off economically during this era, in many cases that was the reason colonies were abandoned. Germany became a powerhouse when his colonial empire was "a sausage factory in Tanganyika".
Now who's imaginging things?I think it mostly took a lot of simple experimentations and dedication to it along with some good fertile soil. There s no geniusery involved even if it turned out that way, like discovering we could actually make fire rubbing rocks together. It likely wasn't the smartest lads of the cave who found out about it. Yet major jump forward. Most humans would have been able to figure it out at some point even by chance. Having a real understanding of nuclear reactions or quantum physic is reserved to a very small fringe of the population, no chance or random try involved. Human intelligence is not limitless and increases as time goes by.
It's unlikely any other burst of the same magnitude than in the last 500 years will happen ever again from humans. It's just gonna be a progression based on these very principles we know now, until maybe AI completely replaces us. in 200 years imo, China won't be dominating anything but somebody's AI might.
Yes, so I mentioned Ukraine instead. China had 57 million people in the 1st century according to their census but that's because they built to it.That was the point, they couldn't even have invented anything in Iceland until very recently, and even Finland was populated by only a few thousands people not that long ago, so im ok with making fun of north Euro here but they had real severe ballasts if entirely honest. This is just not a very welcoming environement to blossom quickly compared to other places, even compared to many parts of Africa.
They were perfectly suited for dealing with every single military threat they faced - until people who had access to Chinese weaponry and European steel, whom they had never even heard of, rocked up from a continent that may as well have been Mars. You're being disingenuous. There was essentially a 50-50 coinflip that they'd be horribly outmatched and they lost (probably 80-20 considering they had no cavalry).At that time "most metrics" would have included being able to defend yourself, if only they knew it was coming. A lot of bad luck, two times in a row though. If your civilisation disappear each time somebody shows up, clearly you ve lost the dick contest by a lot.
Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1
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We were much better at making fun of the English:
British captive officer "You French fight for money while we fight for honour!", Surcouf replied "Each of us fights for what he lacks most".
It comes in second after our local Hunters gatherers so it isn't minor. The actual farmers who came into Europe were also highly related to a part of what made up later the IE invaders (CHG - Iran Neolithic, the Dzudzuana stuff/Basal Eurasian). At the end of the day, adding everything that's a lot more substantial than the ancient link we have with Amerindians through ANE (0-20%) and in the countries that really counted in Europe it's more like 10-15%. Triple that for the "farmer stuff", rest being WHG like cavemen.
Amerindians could legitimately claim to be the ANE descendants, much more than any Europeans. Technically they have the most of that ancestry in the world. We both know all that.
There are evidences of intense manipulation and exploitations of apple trees in Scotland mesolithic for example. Scots didn't invent fruit agriculture (they invented a lot of things however btw). There s always some idiot a few thousand years ago who had a vague understanding of some major discovery happening later. Turning it into a solid repeatable science is a complete different story.
It made Europe even wealthier, in some instances it did, momentarily. What Europeans realized at the time is that people inhabiting the land are more important than the land itself. This could only go so far as what the people there were capable of, unless you completely replaced the population to do everything yourself like in the US (slaves might apply there)
Im trying to project 200 years in your future when China will finally be that all round dominating power. Feels like our parents were already hearing about it, the imminence of it. For now it's still just a big factory country slaving to build our crap, with a backward authoritarian communist regime. It doesn't make it into anybody's wet dreams. Culturally and as a soft power they have a very long way ahead. Frankly i would bet more coins on Korea and Japan still.
Anyway again that wasn't my intent to say East Asians are inferior to Europeans or something that drastic, i personally have a lot of affection towards Japan and more recently Korea but false modesty is the worst especially when it goes as far as being historically untrue. Just it's a fact they lagged behind in the most important last era of humanity. I don't mind you disagreeing with the importance of it, but i think it obviously would be seen even that way from an extra terrestrial perspective. If somebody else detects us in the cosmos, they ll detect an European signal, probes, satellites, ships... invented by them. They might even witness us colonizing Mars soon. "The monkeys there have finally made it into a civilisation worth of note" I don't think they will care about who invented grafting or planted seeds first even if it may appear substantial to us.
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The japanese are cool people, but I wouldn't say they are the most superior.
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French delegate at the signing of the Cordial Entente: 'I must admit, if I had not been born French, I would like to have been born English.'British captive officer "You French fight for money while we fight for honour!", Surcouf replied "Each of us fights for what he lacks most".
British delegate: 'If I had not been born English, I would like to have been born English.'
Still a minority of your DNA.It comes in second after our local Hunters gatherers so it isn't minor. The actual farmers who came into Europe were also highly related to a part of what made up later the IE invaders (CHG - Iran Neolithic, the Dzudzuana stuff/Basal Eurasian). At the end of the day, adding everything that's a lot more substantial than the ancient link we have with Amerindians through ANE (0-20%) and in the countries that really counted in Europe it's more like 10-15%. Triple that for the "farmer stuff", rest being WHG like cavemen.
Amerindians could legitimately claim to be the ANE descendants, much more than any Europeans. Technically they have the most of that ancestry in the world. We both know all that.
Even if true, your apples come from China.There are evidences of intense manipulation and exploitations of apple trees in Scotland mesolithic for example. Scots didn't invent fruit agriculture (they invented a lot of things however btw). There s always some idiot a few thousand years ago who had a vague understanding of some major discovery happening later. Turning it into a solid repeatable science is a complete different story.
They probably won't care, bro. 'Which country founded the Tungsten that went into this probe?' They'll treat us as a singular entity.It made Europe even wealthier, in some instances it did, momentarily. What Europeans realized at the time is that people inhabiting the land are more important than the land itself. This could only go so far as what the people there were capable of, unless you completely replaced the population to do everything yourself like in the US (slaves might apply there)
Im trying to project 200 years in your future when China will finally be that all round dominating power. Feels like our parents were already hearing about it, the imminence of it. For now it's still just a big factory country slaving to build our crap, with a backward authoritarian communist regime. It doesn't make it into anybody's wet dreams. Culturally and as a soft power they have a very long way ahead. Frankly i would bet more coins on Korea and Japan still.
Anyway again that wasn't my intent to say East Asians are inferior to Europeans or something that drastic, i personally have a lot of affection towards Japan and more recently Korea but false modesty is the worst especially when it goes as far as being historically untrue. Just it's a fact they lagged behind in the most important last era of humanity. I don't mind you disagreeing with the importance of it, but i think it obviously would be seen even that way from an extra terrestrial perspective. If somebody else detects us in the cosmos, they ll detect an European signal, probes, satellites, ships... invented by them. They might even witness us colonizing Mars soon. "The monkeys there have finally made it into a civilisation worth of note" I don't think they will care about who invented grafting or planted seeds first even if it may appear substantial to us.
Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1
I live here. I also live here.
Europeans worldwide * Longbowman's family on 23andme * Classify Longbowman * Ask Longbowman anything
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My point. Not very humourous, just a bit discourteous or snob, specially in the context of trying to make peace with one arch enemy.
I find it a little funny because, im sure any Aprician/Rethelid claiming he is entirely HG or IE pure descendant, like many specimens often do around here, you would be quick to point out he also has very non negligeable other influences, mainly the farmers from the fertile crescent and those of the Iranian plateau in a more twisted way. Im geniunely puzzled as to why you deny this right now.
Probably at first sight, until they start collecting intelligence about who was in charge with all this junk in space. We would likely do the same if we ever go and check some inhabited exoplanet.
ps: Still respectfully looking for an answer in the "attractive look" thread (i know quote notifications don't work)
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