'Emo' killings raise alarms in Iraq

[Beorn]

I like Muslims. They get shit done.

[Contra Mundum]

It's really sick and sad those kids are being killed. If our leaders would have to courage to tell the Israelis to go to hell and stop waging war on Muslim countries, we wouldn't see tragic stories like this. Saddam kept the crazies under control. American involvement in the Muslim world is stirring up a hornets nest and creating instability, and many of these Arabs and Muslims are forced to flee their countries for the West after the Islamists fill the power void and take over.

Before the creation of Israel, the Muslim world enjoyed some degree of peace and stability for centuries.

[Rødskjegg]

Sure, emos can be annoying pricks at times (overly narcissistic as well), but they should not get killed just because they belong to a tragic subculture.

[Arrow Cross]

[Phil75231]

As I said before, I can go off onto A LOT of tangents about this one, but I'll try to stick to the subject

Truth be told, EVERYBODY is always going to be some group of people who are going to be annoying in some way. I'm sure all of us on The Apricity have some skeletons we're all hiding from other posters. How are emos any different in that regard?

Saying they're whiny, wimpy, unmanly (for males), etc. is not sufficient grounds to even think lowly of them. Where you see whininess, wimpiness, and so forth as some kind of disgusting disease, I see it as someone who is crying for help and is in pain. To my mind, it's difficult to see how just brazenly and unceremoniously shoving them aside can be the civilized response to the situation.

I hate to tell you all this, but the world is full of a lot of different kinds of people. Some of those people are not going to meet your standards. For myself, I have low tolerance of narrow-minded people with excessively strict definitions of "normal behavior" and "respect-worthy person" (i.e. people of different religions, races, sexual orientations, income levels, and so forth). This is especially if their behavior toward those that meets their standards resembles a bad-tempered barnyard animal., just a few steps removed from the same mentality that compels people to beat up gays, blacks, and so forth simply because they're gay, black, etc.

By shunning emos and other "whiny" people as second-class human beings, certain people are demonstrating a limited mindset that they will have to overcome if they are to help work to build and improve society (prosperity, proper government forms, more sane international relations, etc). "Normal, sensible, self-respecting people with strong backbones" are just one subset of society. It is important that we all recognize this because shances are, some very creative and intelligent people you will work with will be by-that-time former emos. Many of them may well keep many aspects of that subculture within their psyche. In short, by bashing emos, you're effectively telling a lot of talented and creative people who, despite your personal distaste for "whining", WILL contribute a lot to your workforce and quality of life.

In short, emo-bashing is simply counterproductive in the long run, and therefore WE need to adjust OUR definitions of "normal, respectworthy person" if we are to continue to have prosperous socieities in the 21st century and beyond.

[Sikeliot]

I agree with the idea of what you are saying Phil, but if you've known a significant number of people who buy into the "emo" subculture, you'll know it derives from music they listen to and a desire to be "different" and not blend into mainstream society for whatever reason (and ironically they all look alike, the emos and "scene kids" and what have you). But someone who is legitimately suffering and in pain is not going to go around advertising themselves a such through a fashion trend that unfortunately has become too mainstream.

[Contra Mundum]

From the news reports I have read on this subject, it isn't just the so called emos that are being killed, it's any young person that thinks or acts differently.

It's not a society that respects individualism. You have to conform to the majority and be like everyone else.

[Grumpy Cat]

From the news reports I have read on this subject, it isn't just the so called emos that are being killed, it's any young person that thinks or acts differently.

It's not a society that respects individualism. You have to conform to the majority and be like everyone else.

Yes, I have seen documentaries about how hard metalheads get it in Iraq and the Middle East in general. I've also spoken to Middle Eastern metal fans on chats who have told me stories about how they are treated.

[Phil75231]

I agree with the idea of what you are saying Phil, but if you've known a significant number of people who buy into the "emo" subculture, you'll know it derives from music they listen to and a desire to be "different" and not blend into mainstream society for whatever reason (and ironically they all look alike, the emos and "scene kids" and what have you). But someone who is legitimately suffering and in pain is not going to go around advertising themselves a such through a fashion trend that unfortunately has become too mainstream.

I see what you're talking about, and can even agree with what you're talking about - but this one zigzags in a lot of different directions.

First, there's what you say - depression and misery as a "fashion statement"/"identity statement".

Second is what I just said in my previous post.

Third, there are people who are genuinely suffering, identify with a lot of what the emo culture says, then decides to identify with at least the suffering part while still dressing "normal" (i.e. fashions 85%+ of the student body wears).

Fourth, similar to third, but they actually see emos as being more receptive and open-hearted to their (semi)depressed state, then join that crowd because they don't trust mainstream society to do any more than to tell them to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", "tough it out", "get over it", etc.

Fifth, self-described emos may well join the emo crowd although they aren't true caricatures of emos - because that may be the only crowd they find that shares their personal values, or even accepts them.

Then, there's probably some other angles I haven't though of.

CONCLUSION: There's as may reasons to be an emo as there are emos themselves. They may share a lot of commonalities, but when it's time to show their cards, their real reasons are all ultimately individual ones. We can only know if they do happen to explain in detail why they choose to be with "emos" and not some other group.

It's not a society that respects individualism. You have to conform to the majority and be like everyone else.

I certainly agree with you, but ..aren't all societies like that to one degree or another? Granted here in the Western (and often not-so-Western) democracies, we don't lynch them and stage pogroms, etc. Even so, the attitudes themselves are precisely what gives rise to these persecutions. Even most (if not all) the "wealthy West" still has quite a ways to go in that regard.

[Baron Samedi]

Yet another fucked up thread.