Croatian man killed in Ireland "for speaking Croatian"

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I'd have to think sex with a prostitute is awkward. It's not a natural progression toward sex.

[Grace O'Malley]

when it comes to the sex industry as a whole Grace's overall view seems to be "men are villains and women are victims"

to anyone has the capacity to open there eyes and see things clearly then her view is obviously somewhat dishonest and biased.

Onlyfans for example who is usually at the end of the day more richer the only model or the "fans" yet we will somehow find a way to label only the fans as perpetrators of the terrible sex industry that is the argument you will get from Grace and people like her.

You already gave a good example of your social worker friend who by no pimp and no force makes her own decision as to what she did with her body for extra money.
And there would be hundreds of females that pretty much do same as your friend , but because Prostitution is kind of taboo subject the reality of stories of people like your friend will be downplayed or dismissed.

It's not quite that simple that women are victims and men are villains. The facts are that prostitutes are overwhelmingly women and men are the buyers. It's not a blanket women are victims and men are villains. Why are these straw man arguments being used? It is not about male bashing.

Also using examples of a few women that decide to sell their bodies does not negate the vast amount of women that aren't giving real consent because they are trafficked. I've said countless times it's the whole prostitution industry that is a dirty business. You are focussed on one thing and then you accuse me of things which I'm not implying at all.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Society often makes laws and decides whether someone can give consent or not.

Not all laws are rational.

We've also acknowledged that society may say something is illegal but clearly looks the other way, such as law enforcement being aware of the red light district and doing nothing about it (except on occasion for show or to basically rob prostitutes with fines).

You cannot sell your kidney legally so why should selling your vagina be different.

Yet, you can give your kidney to someone in need. How odd is that? You can't sell it but you can give it to someone? That's not rational.

It makes perfect sense to me. People often don't act in their best interests. Sometimes society has to step in.

It's not your business whether they do or don't. Perhaps what you think is in their best interests isn't so. Perhaps society is also incorrect about what is in a person's best interest. Would you say Saudi Arabia's treatment of its people is in their best interests?

You can use the case of whether someone with an intellectual disability can give consent or someone who has psychiatric issues etc. What people have consent for now might not be the case in the future.

A mentally disabled or someone with psychiatric issues can't consent. One has the intelligence of a child and the others unable to reason and we can state so objectively.

Will people be able to mutilate their bodies in the future to trans?

That's their choice. I respect the decision of other adults to do what they will with their bodies but they also must accept the consequences.

There is plenty of discussion on this topic. Anyway I think from past discussion you don't agree with abortion even though that is legal now

Once there is a heartbeat it's a life. So to end that life is murder. That's the objective reality.

.Or gun ownership.

I'm a big fan of gun ownership. I think the laws in my state are too strict. Anti-gun laws are irrational and that's what the statistical evidence reveals. All it does is allow criminals an advantage over law-abiding citizens.

These are things that could be banned in the future and in some countries they are banned. As I've said there are countless areas where we can agree to something as adults but society can step in and decide for you.

Sometimes society is right and sometimes society is wrong.

[Grace O'Malley]

Not all laws are rational.

We've also acknowledged that society may say something is illegal but clearly looks the other way, such as law enforcement being aware of the red light district and doing nothing about it (except on occasion for show or to basically rob prostitutes with fines).

Yes it's an imperfect world and lots of things don't make sense and we don't agree with a lot of things that society decides. In the end just because there are all sorts of irrationalities does not change my views that I would like to see a change in society as far as acceptance or putting up with prostitution because of the reasons I've said in previous posts.

Yet, you can give your kidney to someone in need. How odd is that? You can't sell it but you can give it to someone? That's not rational.

Yes you can give your kidney to someone in need here in Australia and the same with surrogacy. Mostly these involve relatives that want to help. However money can't be involved. I would give my kidney if my daughter needed it.

It's not your business whether they do or don't. Perhaps what you think is in their best interests isn't so. Perhaps society is also incorrect about what is in a person's best interest. Would you Saudi Arabia's treatment of its people is in their best interests?

No Saudi Arabia is not where I would chose to live. Anyway there are loads of things which people do that aren't in their best interests. I'm just solely discussing prostitution and it's implications and the buying a woman's body for sex which I view as dehumanising and immoral. I'm not here to argue about all of society's ills and about the whole issue of consent across a broad range of issues. We are just discussing prostitution and the issue around that. Prostitution whether legal or not does not have an affect on human trafficking there is always human trafficking involved. The problem is that there is never enough prostitutes to satisfy the demand. There is not just an argument about a woman choosing to prostitute herself. The whole model is corrupt.

A mentally disabled or someone with psychiatric issues can't consent. One has the intelligence of a child and the others unable to reason and we can state so objectively.

That's their choice. I respect the decision of other adults to do what they will with their bodies but they also must accept the consequences.

There are a whole load of issues and questions about whether someone involved in prostitution can really give consent.

Consent relies on three conditions: the freedom to choose a sexual partner, the freedom to choose the nature of relations, and the freedom to choose the timing. If any one of these conditions is impaired, the sexual relations should be considered forced – for example, when someone forces their regular partner or spouse to have sex at a time or in a way they do not want.

In the context of prostitution, none of those three conditions can be completely met. Women in prostitution do not choose their clients (except in anecdotal blog stories); they do not choose the timing; and, in most cases, they have hardly any freedom to determine the nature of the acts performed.

Forced sex, even in cases that include some version of consent, is obviously traumatic to those involved. Most of us intuitively understand that when one’s livelihood and economic survival are dependent on having sex with partners who were not chosen, in a timing and manner that were also not chosen, it can be mentally and emotionally damaging.

In the context of prostitution, none of those three conditions can be completely met. Women in prostitution do not choose their clients (except in anecdotal blog stories); they do not choose the timing; and, in most cases, they have hardly any freedom to determine the nature of the acts performed.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2018/12/2...-prostitution/

Once there is a heartbeat it's a life. So to end that life is murder. That's the objective reality.

Well people have completely different views on this topic and whether a woman should be able to decide to end a pregnancy as it is her body that is needed to keep the pregnancy going. (I'm not going to get into the issue of abortion here but just wanted to use that as an example where people have a different view on consent).

I'm a big fan of gun ownership. I think the laws in my state are too strict.

And sometimes society is right and sometimes society is wrong.

Yes and the same argument re the above can be used on whether it is society's business or not. Of course as a community people have to decide on a whole what is best for their society and sometimes people might feel this infringes on their personal rights. My main points however with prostitution is whether there is actually consent under the circumstances. Obviously people have very different opinions but I do think the points I have made are very valid and show that prostitution is not just something that occurs between two people. It very rarely involves that and it is impossible for society to not get involved because of all the other crap and problems that prostitution brings with it.

[Daco Celtic]

I dislike Redbar. He's just as bad as all the 'fools' he mocks. He's fortunate that he's so fringe that no one cares enough to go through his history of shadiness.

I admit he cracks me up. He's over the top but that is his shtick and his call outs are pretty on the money. He's not really fringe because he single-handedly got in the heads of the Rogan's circle of friends/Austin-based coattail riders

[oszkar07]

I'm opposed to prostitution, but not necessarily for moralistic reasons. I simply find most prostitutes unappealing and yucky; I need to have a connection or sexual attraction to someone to go to bed with them. Additionally, the prevalence of STDs concerns me, and I believe these individuals should seek real employment instead of exploiting men's sexual needs.

I support the prohibition and penalization for both men and women involved in prostitution. Penalizing only men seems foolish, while high-end escorts laugh at the naivety of simps and politicians on their way to the bank.

Certainly, there are many dynamics of exploitation of women involved in this industry. However, I don't believe for a second that the majority of women in developed countries engage in this profession involuntarily when there is plenty of other work available. I find it much more morally questionable in third-world countries where many women lack alternative options.

Exactly,

and not to mention,most women who work in Prostitution would be way way more cognitively intact than the President of the United
States.
Even the most Junkie hookers would nod off far less than the Commander in Chief.

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm opposed to prostitution, but not necessarily for moralistic reasons. I simply find most prostitutes unappealing and yucky; I need to have a connection or sexual attraction to someone to go to bed with them. Additionally, the prevalence of STDs concerns me, and I believe these individuals should seek real employment instead of exploiting men's sexual needs.

I support the prohibition and penalization for both men and women involved in prostitution. Penalizing only men seems foolish, while high-end escorts laugh at the naivety of simps and politicians on their way to the bank.

Certainly, there are many dynamics of exploitation of women involved in this industry. However, I don't believe for a second that the majority of women in developed countries engage in this profession involuntarily when there is plenty of other work available. I find it much more morally questionable in third-world countries where many women lack alternative options.

But the problem is most of the prostitutes are being trafficked from third-world countries to developed countries. Most prostitutes are foreign which has been repeated numerous times in this thread.

I'm opposed to prostitution, but not necessarily for moralistic reasons. I simply find most prostitutes unappealing and yucky; I need to have a connection or sexual attraction to someone to go to bed with them. Additionally, the prevalence of STDs concerns me, and I believe these individuals should seek real employment instead of exploiting men's sexual needs.

Men don't have to visit prostitutes but they go in such numbers that they traffic the majority of women in from third world or much poorer countries.

[oszkar07]

You don't understand my arguments and use too much ad hominem in your discussions. You accuse the person making the argument of all sorts of things which are in no way part of what I have been saying. You can smell hypocrisy all you like but there is no hypocrisy in what I'm saying.



https://www8.austlii.edu.au/au/journ...Jl/2008/61.pdf

Very good article on the topic if anyone wants to take the time to read it.

where is the adhominems ? all i did was ask a question.

as expected just your pivoting with more copy pastes.

[Grace O'Malley]

Not all laws are rational.

We've also acknowledged that society may say something is illegal but clearly looks the other way, such as law enforcement being aware of the red light district and doing nothing about it (except on occasion for show or to basically rob prostitutes with fines).



Yet, you can give your kidney to someone in need. How odd is that? You can't sell it but you can give it to someone? That's not rational.




It's not your business whether they do or don't. Perhaps what you think is in their best interests isn't so. Perhaps society is also incorrect about what is in a person's best interest. Would you say Saudi Arabia's treatment of its people is in their best interests?



A mentally disabled or someone with psychiatric issues can't consent. One has the intelligence of a child and the others unable to reason and we can state so objectively.



That's their choice. I respect the decision of other adults to do what they will with their bodies but they also must accept the consequences.



Once there is a heartbeat it's a life. So to end that life is murder. That's the objective reality.



I'm a big fan of gun ownership. I think the laws in my state are too strict. Anti-gun laws are irrational and that's what the statistical evidence reveals. All it does is allow criminals an advantage over law-abiding citizens.



Sometimes society is right and sometimes society is wrong.

where is the adhominems ? all i did was ask a question.

as expected just your pivoting with more copy pastes.

Well you said I was a feminist and also that I believe all men are villains. What is wrong with using supportive documentation? I'm not using anecdotal evidence but can post from articles that support what I've said. Why is that wrong? You actually should try it and use something that supports what you are saying.

[oszkar07]

It's not quite that simple that women are victims and men are villains. The facts are that prostitutes are overwhelmingly women and men are the buyers. It's not a blanket women are victims and men are villains. Why are these straw man arguments being used? It is not about male bashing.

Also using examples of a few women that decide to sell their bodies does not negate the vast amount of women that aren't giving real consent because they are trafficked. I've said countless times it's the whole prostitution industry that is a dirty business. You are focussed on one thing and then you accuse me of things which I'm not implying at all.

i said it before somehow the phenomena of prostitution is somehow connected to the human condition, as strange as that sounds somehow its true , has something to do with the nature of things and goes beyond what ever i or you may think, strange as that sounds to you.


in other words ...

i think your beating on a dead horse.

i think if all men suddenly lost their sex drive there would be a lot of unhappy out of work hookers.


back to the 9 to 5 bitches !