Distant Dutch "Frisian" ancestry?

[jtoml3]

Hi all,

This is a question I have been thinking about since I started using Gedmatch awhile a go. On most of the calculators I get Dutch or a type of German appearing. I don't know whether this is because the calculator is just finding a middle point between my own ancestry or if there is more truth to it. My known ancestry is English, Croatian, Polish, Welsh, Irish and Maori. I do have some ancestors who were from south-east England. I know Frisian can also mean German however on my MDLP K23b, I get Dutch and Frisian in my Oracles. I have been told in the past the Dutch could represent Belgae. Any thoughts would be great :D

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 German-Volga @ 3.277798
2 South_German @ 4.020086
3 Dutch @ 4.370359
4 Belgian @ 5.662082
5 Frisian @ 5.721272
6 Irish @ 6.471714
7 English @ 6.611763
8 Austrian @ 7.086512
9 North_German @ 7.705863
10 North_European @ 7.717642
11 Dane @ 8.460835
12 English_Kent_GBR @ 8.958603
13 Norwegian_East @ 9.030949
14 German_East @ 9.284139
15 CEU @ 9.539107
16 Serb_Serbia @ 9.638930
17 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 9.687665
18 Swede @ 10.019649
19 British @ 10.212126
20 Welsh @ 10.303917

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR +50% Serb_Serbia @ 2.370529


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch +25% Frisian +25% Montenegrian @ 2.053689


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Bulgarian + Dutch + Dutch + Frisian @ 1.824983
2 Dutch + German-Volga + Irish + Serb_Serbia @ 1.826487
3 Dutch + Frisian + German-Volga + Serb_Serbia @ 1.883198
4 Bulgarian + Dutch + Dutch + North_European @ 1.926490
5 Belgian + Bulgarian + Dutch + Dutch @ 1.950422
6 Bulgarian + Dutch + Dutch + Irish @ 1.953127
7 Bulgarian + Dane + Frisian + Irish @ 1.977519
8 Bulgarian + Dutch + Dutch + English @ 1.981946
9 Bulgarian + Dutch + Frisian + Norwegian_East @ 1.995352
10 Dutch + English + German-Volga + Serb_Serbia @ 1.999415
11 Bulgarian + Dane + Frisian + Frisian @ 2.000729
12 Dutch + German-Volga + North_European + Serb_Serbia @ 2.028015
13 Dutch + Dutch + Frisian + Montenegrian @ 2.053689
14 Dutch + Dutch + Irish + Montenegrian @ 2.062840
15 Bulgarian + Dutch + Dutch + English_Kent_GBR @ 2.080451
16 Bulgarian + Dutch + Irish + Norwegian_East @ 2.088581
17 Bosnian + Frisian + German-Volga + Irish @ 2.093210
18 Bulgarian + Dutch + Frisian + Frisian @ 2.097251
19 Bulgarian + Frisian + German-Volga + Norwegian_East @ 2.100228
20 Bosnian + German-Volga + Irish + Irish @ 2.102215

[Borna]

I knew there are lot of Croats in Australia, but New Zealand?

[jtoml3]

I knew there are lot of Croats in Australia, but New Zealand?

The North Island has quite a big population of Croatian descent. My paternal great grandparents migrated to New Zealand in the early 1900s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_diaspora#New_Zealand

[LightHouse89]

The North Island has quite a big population of Croatian descent. My paternal great grandparents migrated to New Zealand in the early 1900s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_diaspora#New_Zealand

We have may croats here too from even earlier times.

[jtoml3]

We have may croats here too from even earlier times.

Off topic but I've found the EUtest to be the best test to show my mostly English and Croatian ancestry if you want to check it out of curiosity. Its probably one of the odder mixes. Netherlands/Dutch not as prominent in this test.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_&_Central_German @ 3.835824
2 NL @ 5.053637
3 English @ 6.744933
4 Cornish @ 6.914036
5 AT @ 8.416594
6 Orcadian @ 8.855638
7 DK @ 9.145692
8 FR @ 9.434384
9 IE @ 9.768493
10 Scottish @ 10.917755
11 NO @ 11.299001
12 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 11.665000
13 North_Swedish @ 14.462786
14 HU @ 15.112868
15 Serbian @ 16.565939
16 PT @ 17.155535
17 ES @ 17.970543
18 North_Italian @ 19.877405
19 RO @ 19.940292
20 South_Finnish @ 22.602533

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +50% English @ 3.095479


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English +25% English +25% RO @ 1.919067


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cornish + English + English + RO @ 1.860949
2 English + English + English + RO @ 1.919067
3 Cornish + English + English + Serbian @ 2.039442
4 Cornish + Cornish + English + Serbian @ 2.051604
5 North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 2.115382
6 NL + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.119254
7 Cornish + English + NL + Serbian @ 2.182814
8 Cornish + English + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.201705
9 Cornish + English + NL + RO @ 2.223539
10 English + English + NL + RO @ 2.232720
11 Cornish + Cornish + NL + Serbian @ 2.241726
12 DK + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 2.242059
13 English + English + Orcadian + RO @ 2.242978
14 Cornish + DK + English + RO @ 2.252095
15 Cornish + Cornish + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.252128
16 English + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.265253
17 English + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 2.302127
18 Cornish + Cornish + English + RO @ 2.316765
19 Cornish + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 2.321048
20 NL + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 2.325165

Done.

Elapsed time 0.0636 seconds.

[LightHouse89]

Off topic but I've found the EUtest to be the best test to show my mostly English and Croatian ancestry if you want to check it out of curiosity. Its probably one of the odder mixes. Netherlands/Dutch not as prominent in this test.

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_&_Central_German @ 3.835824
2 NL @ 5.053637
3 English @ 6.744933
4 Cornish @ 6.914036
5 AT @ 8.416594
6 Orcadian @ 8.855638
7 DK @ 9.145692
8 FR @ 9.434384
9 IE @ 9.768493
10 Scottish @ 10.917755
11 NO @ 11.299001
12 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 11.665000
13 North_Swedish @ 14.462786
14 HU @ 15.112868
15 Serbian @ 16.565939
16 PT @ 17.155535
17 ES @ 17.970543
18 North_Italian @ 19.877405
19 RO @ 19.940292
20 South_Finnish @ 22.602533

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +50% English @ 3.095479


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English +25% English +25% RO @ 1.919067


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cornish + English + English + RO @ 1.860949
2 English + English + English + RO @ 1.919067
3 Cornish + English + English + Serbian @ 2.039442
4 Cornish + Cornish + English + Serbian @ 2.051604
5 North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 2.115382
6 NL + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.119254
7 Cornish + English + NL + Serbian @ 2.182814
8 Cornish + English + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.201705
9 Cornish + English + NL + RO @ 2.223539
10 English + English + NL + RO @ 2.232720
11 Cornish + Cornish + NL + Serbian @ 2.241726
12 DK + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 2.242059
13 English + English + Orcadian + RO @ 2.242978
14 Cornish + DK + English + RO @ 2.252095
15 Cornish + Cornish + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.252128
16 English + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.265253
17 English + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 2.302127
18 Cornish + Cornish + English + RO @ 2.316765
19 Cornish + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 2.321048
20 NL + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 2.325165

Done.

Elapsed time 0.0636 seconds.

Interesting. Anyway Croats apparently have been here since colonial times or a alittle bit afterwards as several thousands of them served in the Confederacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_American

Your background how seems rather odd I think but not so odd here :cool: Many descendants of Croats live in America.

[jtoml3]

Do many of the new younger generation continue the Croatian language/customs, or because it was their grandparents, great grandparents etc that migrated they tend not to care or it hasn't been passed onto them? The two coaches in the Super Bowl final both have Croatian ancestry :cool: Are most of your ancestors from the UK/Western Europe?

[Not a Cop]

Have you tested yourself with 23andme?

[jtoml3]

Have you tested yourself with 23andme?

I haven't, mainly due to shipping to Australia is $96.46 AUD alone without the cost of the test kit. It is definitely something I want to do in the future to compare it to my FTDNA results/Gedmatch calculator results. If the Dutch is real I doubt I'd ever be able to prove it without a paper trail but it would probably be too distant for records to exist.

[Not a Cop]

I haven't, mainly due to shipping to Australia is $96.46 AUD alone without the cost of the test kit. It is definitely something I want to do in the future to compare it to my FTDNA results/Gedmatch calculator results. If the Dutch is real I doubt I'd ever be able to prove it without a paper trail but it would probably be too distant for records to exist.

Well that's bad, since in 23andme you can download your relative finder results and check out your matches by countries, anyway i don't think that your dutch is real, but rather represent your general NW ancestry,having close dutch match is something common for Brits.

[jtoml3]

Well that's bad, since in 23andme you can download your relative finder results and check out your matches by countries, anyway i don't think that your dutch is real, but rather represent your general NW ancestry,having close dutch match is something common for Brits.

I've done the Y-DNA 37 test and I have a few Dutch matches at 12 markers but none at 25 or 37. I even have more matches in Germany. Its probably guess work when it goes back that far. The only plausible explanation is maybe only whatever family members were left went across to England.

[Sisak]

Do many of the new younger generation continue the Croatian language/customs, or because it was their grandparents, great grandparents etc that migrated they tend not to care or it hasn't been passed onto them? The two coaches in the Super Bowl final both have Croatian ancestry :cool: Are most of your ancestors from the UK/Western Europe?

Croats are very well assimilated into other nations. This is a topic about Croats and Maori in New Zealand. You can write something about it if you know something.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?68366-Tarara-Croats-and-Maori-in-New-Zealand

[jtoml3]

Croats are very well assimilated into other nations. This is a topic about Croats and Maori in New Zealand. You can write something about it if you know something.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?68366-Tarara-Croats-and-Maori-in-New-Zealand

I happen to own that book by Senka Bozic-Vrbancic. I have some Maori on my maternal side but Gedmatch calculators only give me around 1% Oceanian which I expect. My Croatian paternal great grandfather was a kauri gum digger. I even have a a few pieces of gum that were passed onto me that he dug up. Are you of Croatian ancestry?

[Sisak]

I happen to own that book by Senka Bozic-Vrbancic. I have some Maori on my maternal side but Gedmatch calculators only give me around 1% Oceanian which I expect. My Croatian paternal great grandfather was a kauri gum digger. I even have a a few pieces of gum that were passed onto me that he dug up. Are you of Croatian ancestry?

Yes, my all family members are Croats, but for some ancestors I am not sure.

[Sisak]

We have may croats here too from even earlier times.

Croats came to America in the 19th century, they were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the imperial government had allowed a small quota of immigrants in America. Croats came with the latest groups of immigrants to America. According to the 1907 Immigration Commission survey, about 66 percent of Croatians who came to America returned home.

[jtoml3]

Croats came to America in the 19th century, they were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the imperial government had allowed a small quota of immigrants in America. Croats came with the latest groups of immigrants to America. According to the 1907 Immigration Commission survey, about 66 percent of Croatians who came to America returned home.

Sisak, if you're curious to see what a mostly English/Croatian person looks like DNA wise on Gedmatch calculators, here are my EUtest and Jtest Oracle results (very similar).


EUtest:


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_&_Central_German @ 3.835824
2 NL @ 5.053637
3 English @ 6.744933
4 Cornish @ 6.914036
5 AT @ 8.416594
6 Orcadian @ 8.855638
7 DK @ 9.145692
8 FR @ 9.434384
9 IE @ 9.768493
10 Scottish @ 10.917755
11 NO @ 11.299001
12 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 11.665000
13 North_Swedish @ 14.462786
14 HU @ 15.112868
15 Serbian @ 16.565939
16 PT @ 17.155535
17 ES @ 17.970543
18 North_Italian @ 19.877405
19 RO @ 19.940292
20 South_Finnish @ 22.602533

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +50% English @ 3.095479


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English +25% English +25% RO @ 1.919067


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cornish + English + English + RO @ 1.860949
2 English + English + English + RO @ 1.919067
3 Cornish + English + English + Serbian @ 2.039442
4 Cornish + Cornish + English + Serbian @ 2.051604
5 North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 2.115382
6 NL + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.119254
7 Cornish + English + NL + Serbian @ 2.182814
8 Cornish + English + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.201705
9 Cornish + English + NL + RO @ 2.223539
10 English + English + NL + RO @ 2.232720
11 Cornish + Cornish + NL + Serbian @ 2.241726
12 DK + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 2.242059
13 English + English + Orcadian + RO @ 2.242978
14 Cornish + DK + English + RO @ 2.252095
15 Cornish + Cornish + Serbian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.252128
16 English + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.265253
17 English + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 2.302127
18 Cornish + Cornish + English + RO @ 2.316765
19 Cornish + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 2.321048
20 NL + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 2.325165

Done.

Elapsed time 0.0675 seconds.



Jtest:


Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 West_&_Central_German @ 3.869421
2 NL @ 4.986051
3 English @ 6.734190
4 Cornish @ 6.772150
5 AT @ 8.436040
6 Orcadian @ 8.646053
7 DK @ 8.768501
8 FR @ 9.430319
9 IE @ 9.578190
10 Scottish @ 10.546211
11 NO @ 10.788263
12 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 11.216284
13 North_Swedish @ 14.353734
14 HU @ 15.096076
15 Serbian @ 16.718693
16 PT @ 16.920933
17 ES @ 17.786676
18 North_Italian @ 19.980894
19 RO @ 20.045710
20 South_Finnish @ 21.899584

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% AT +50% English @ 2.919657


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English +25% English +25% RO @ 1.977189


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Cornish + English + English + RO @ 1.876664
2 English + English + English + RO @ 1.977189
3 DK + FR + Scottish + Serbian @ 2.056612
4 Cornish + English + English + Serbian @ 2.067553
5 Cornish + Cornish + English + Serbian @ 2.067736
6 Cornish + DK + English + RO @ 2.088197
7 NL + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.146704
8 North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 2.188707
9 English + English + Orcadian + RO @ 2.224164
10 Cornish + English + NL + Serbian @ 2.251966
11 Cornish + English + NL + RO @ 2.256468
12 Cornish + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Tuscan @ 2.276910
13 DK + FR + Orcadian + Serbian @ 2.279276
14 English + English + RO + Scottish @ 2.284362
15 Cornish + Cornish + English + RO @ 2.285410
16 DK + DK + North_Italian + West_&_Central_German @ 2.285774
17 Cornish + Cornish + NL + Serbian @ 2.288007
18 English + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.295705
19 DK + North_Swedish + Scottish + Tuscan @ 2.299879
20 English + English + NL + RO @ 2.300408

Done.

Elapsed time 0.0946 seconds.