Mongolian origins of Sain-Bulat disapproved?

[Harkonnen]

Simeon Bekbulatovich, first non-Rurikid Grand Prince of Russia famously claimed descent from the Golden Horde. Descendants of Bekbulatovich have tested positive for N1c1 Karelian branch Z1941. This is in contrast with Sain-Bulats stories. As it was a fashion in those days to claim descent from the Horde, it added to man's value considerebly :) It could be that Simeon was liar, and his true origins lie in Karelia, or somewhere between Karelia and Volga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_Bekbulatovich

[Harkonnen]

Perhaps there can be parallel to Generalissimo Alexander Suvorov (Syvävaara), also of Karelian origin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Suvorov

Just fast forward hundred years forward.

[Austrvegr]

Simeon Bekbulatovich left no male progeny and Suvorov had nothing to do with Karelians.

[Harkonnen]

Simeon Bekbulatovich left no male progeny

According to this


Subgroup is Bekbulatovich’s, Kasimov’s khans of Rurikovich’s.

27. Haplotype Bikbulatov (descendant of Semion Bekbulatovich, the Moscow Tsar):

14 24 14 11 11 13 11 12 10 14 14 30 16 10 10 11 12 25 14 20 31 13 13 14 14
11 11 18 20 14 15 17 18 36 36 12 10 11 8 15 17 8 9 10 8 11 10 12 21 22 14 10 12
12 18 7 13 20 21 15 12 11 10 11 11 12 11
Distance in single-step mutations from Haplotype E - 16.
Distance in mutations markers from Haplotype E - 12.
Distance in single-step mutations from Haplotype A - 20.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GtzQuUJU4PUJ:www.kubarev.ru/en/content/309.htm+&cd=14&hl=fi&ct=clnk&gl=fi

He did

Anyway aren't you happy Sain-Bulat was not a Mongol, but a Nordic man ;)


and Suvorov had nothing to do with Karelians.

Suvorov was heart, blood and soul Karelian. No question about it.

[Austrvegr]

According to this

He did


No, he only left daughters.



Anyway aren't you happy Sain-Bulat was not a Mongol, but a Nordic man ;)


Yes, we now know that Genghis Khan was Karelian.

[Harkonnen]

No, he only left daughters.

Even if this was true, obviously Bekbulatov is not the name of a normal man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baig

Sain-Bulat "Good-Steel" was the son of Bek-Bulat "Lord-Steel". If we have a man from Ufa with this name, there is a good chance, he is a descendant of Bek Bulat, if not Sain-Bulat.

I agree this is a surprising result and leaves question marks. FWIW Tamerlane also claimed descend from the Great Khan, even though he was only maternally related to Ghenghis.


Yes, we now know that Genghis Khan was Karelian.

Well they say he was blue-eyed and red-bearded aye ;)