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Prisoner Of Ice
03-04-2015, 04:55 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6293333.stm



People of African origin have lived in Britain for centuries, according to genetic evidence.

A Leicester University study found that seven men with a rare Yorkshire surname carry a genetic signature previously found only in people of African origin.

The men seem to have shared a common ancestor in the 18th Century, but the African DNA lineage they carry may have reached Britain centuries earlier.

Details of the study appear in the European Journal of Human Genetics.

The scientists declined to disclose the men's surname in order to protect their anonymity.

The discovery came out of genetic work looking at the relationship between the male, or Y, chromosome and surnames.

The Y chromosome is a package of genetic material normally found only in males.

It is passed down from father to son, more or less unchanged, just like a surname.

Rare lineage

But over time, the Y chromosome accumulates small changes in its DNA sequence, allowing scientists to study the relationships between different male lineages.

Y chromosomes can be classified into different groups (called haplogroups) which, to some extent, reflect a person's geographical ancestry.

Certain haplogroups might be very common in, for example, East Asia and very rare in Europe.

By chance, the researchers discovered a white man with a rare Yorkshire surname carrying a Y chromosome haplogroup that had previously been found only in West African men. And even there, it is relatively uncommon.

"We found that he was in haplogroup A1, which is highly West African-specific," said Turi King, a co-author on the study at the University of Leicester.

"It is incredibly rare, there are only 25 other people known worldwide and they are all African."

Family tree

The individual had no knowledge of any African heritage in his family.

Sharing a surname also significantly raised the likelihood of sharing the same type of Y chromosome, with the link getting stronger as the surname gets rarer.

Portrait of Thomas Jefferson by the artist Rembrandt Peale Image: AP
Analysis of Thomas Jefferson's DNA also threw up a surprise
So the researchers started recruiting people with the same last name, which starts with "R" and originates in Yorkshire.

Of 18 people they tested, seven carried the rare African haplogroup.

Turi King and Leicester colleague Mark Jobling then commissioned a genealogist to fit the men into a family tree to see how they were related and find clues about where exactly their unusual Y haplogroup came from.

"He could only get them into two trees, one which dates back to 1788 and the other to 1789. He couldn't go back any further. So it's likely they join up in the early 18th Century," said Turi King.

The majority of the one million people who define themselves as "black" or "black British" trace their origins to immigration from the Caribbean or Africa from the middle of the 20th Century onwards.

Prior to the 20th Century, there have been various routes by which people of African ancestry might have reached Britain. For example, the Romans recruited from Africa and elsewhere for the garrison that guarded Hadrian's Wall.


I'm actually surprised you don't find random 'wrong' clades much more often.

Of course for all we know this is neanderthal y-dna anyhow. For A00 y-dna most the samples were actually found in france. I won't be surprised they turn out to all be white guys with no known african ancestry.

But I'd also not be surprised if it just floated around as a leftover for eons with no real link to africa at all.

Era
03-04-2015, 05:04 PM
The Romans with their black slaves make more sense.

Italo-Celto-Germanic
03-04-2015, 06:28 PM
The Romans with their black slaves make more sense.

There are no modern Italians with such haplogroup.

Era
03-04-2015, 07:15 PM
There are no modern Italians with such haplogroup.

The slaves that Romans brought to Britain would have been a better wording.

Gaston
03-04-2015, 07:20 PM
The Romans with their black slaves make more sense.

There were almost no blacks in the Roman Empire.

Era
03-04-2015, 07:24 PM
There were almost no blacks in the Roman Empire.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-emperors-of-rome-roman-emperor-caracalla-kara-kalla/

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/gr/m/statue_septimius_severus.aspx

http://library.howard.edu/content.php?pid=554250

I'm sure you can google some more yourself

Gaston
03-04-2015, 08:29 PM
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-black-emperors-of-rome-roman-emperor-caracalla-kara-kalla/

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/gr/m/statue_septimius_severus.aspx

http://library.howard.edu/content.php?pid=554250

I'm sure you can google some more yourself

I'm sure you didn't know North Africans were never black.

Jackson
03-04-2015, 08:31 PM
I'm sure you didn't know North Africans were never black.

They have a fair chunk of Sub-Saharan autosomal DNA too. This could easily be from a North African individual with a Sub-Saharan y-lineage.

Era
03-04-2015, 08:41 PM
I'm sure you didn't know North Africans were never black.

Ok google black africans and romans. Also it helps if you read the links I posted.

alfieb
03-04-2015, 09:06 PM
The Romans with their black slaves make more sense.

Che cazzo hai detto??

:picard1: :picard2:

Gaston
03-04-2015, 09:19 PM
They have a fair chunk of Sub-Saharan autosomal DNA too. This could easily be from a North African individual with a Sub-Saharan y-lineage.

North Africans are native Africans, to their region at least. They are Eurasian-African hybrids, mostly Eurasian. This isn't the point though, it 's about "black people" in the Roman Empire, which were rare.


Ok google black africans and romans. Also it helps if you read the links I posted.

I don't need that, I've been to Roman ruins in Tunisia: no blacks in the mosaics, just like modern North Africa is mostly non-black. You should go in vacation in Tunisia, it's quite cheap.

alfieb
03-04-2015, 09:21 PM
You should go in vacation in Tunisia, it's quite cheap.

Probably cheaper to vacation in Albania.

Gaston
03-04-2015, 09:25 PM
Probably cheaper to vacation in Albania.

That might be true! :D No offense to Albanians.

Jackson
03-04-2015, 09:28 PM
North Africans are native Africans, to their region at least. They are Eurasian-African hybrids, mostly Eurasian. This isn't the point though, it 's about "black people" in the Roman Empire, which were rare.


No, that isn't the point. Yes North Africans are Africans, and Eurasian-African hybrids, hence my point.

Gaston
03-04-2015, 09:34 PM
No, that isn't the point. Yes North Africans are Africans, and Eurasian-African hybrids, hence my point.

Well, it sounded like you were agreeing with Chloe's statement that implied that:
- black people were numerous inside the Roman Empire
- romans specifically chose black people to be slave
- black slaves were specifically sent to Britain but not Italy for some reason


In any case, African lineages are not unknown of in the mediterranean and further. A3b2 is one that has quite a large distribution in Eurasia, from Western Europe to the Near East.

A3b2 is, no surprise, present in North Africa too.

Ianus
03-04-2015, 09:58 PM
- black people were numerous inside the Roman Empire
- romans specifically chose black people to be slave
- black slaves were specifically sent to Britain but not Italy for some reason


:confused:

Prisoner Of Ice
03-04-2015, 10:36 PM
North africa only started to blacken up recently, before that the only blacks were slaves. They only had a small SSA type of influence.


Oh wait nevermind, everyone was black. White people are an albino abomination from india.

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Etruria_the_Etruscans_1.htm

Funny to me his crazy rambles about migrations are actually very close to the stupid shit people like David Reich say now.

Era
03-04-2015, 10:47 PM
Probably cheaper to vacation in Albania.

Alfie both your Italian and English suck: it's sorry mama , not la mama :D
and it's coarse med, not course med

Gaston read, it's good for you.

alfieb
03-04-2015, 10:49 PM
Alfie both your Italian and English suck

You of all people should know better than to expect intelligence from someone from New York. I went to university in another country to party away from my family. Surely not for an education.

Tacitus
03-04-2015, 11:43 PM
This person's ancestor was probably a freeman who moved to the UK during the 17th-18th century. It has nothing to do with "black" Roman slaves or whatever other nonsense. Seriously people, think. Not that hard to Google it.


The involvement of merchants from Great Britain[28] in the transatlantic slave trade was the most important factor in the development of the Black British community. These communities flourished in port cities strongly involved in the slave trade, such as Liverpool (from 1630)[28] and Bristol. By 1795, Liverpool had a monopoly of 62.5% of the European Slave Trade.[28] As a result, Liverpool is home to Britain's oldest black community, dating to at least the 1620s, and some Black Liverpudlians are able to trace their ancestors in the city back ten generations.[28] Early Black settlers in the city included seamen, the children of traders sent to be educated, and freed slaves, since slaves entering the country after 1722 were deemed free men.[29]

Prisoner Of Ice
03-05-2015, 02:12 AM
This person's ancestor was probably a freeman who moved to the UK during the 17th-18th century. It has nothing to do with "black" Roman slaves or whatever other nonsense. Seriously people, think. Not that hard to Google it.

It's an incredibly rare haplotype. If there were a million blacks in UK with no apparent african genes we'd expect to get none of it. Same if it was ten million.

There's definitely not that many people with african clades but no known african ancestry. There's barely any. Think about it, how can you have ancestry 200 years old without one of yout grandparents of great grandparents showing it. This is like the people who try to claim everyone in USA is secretly 2% black. Turns out only 1% of people who think they are white have even 1% african dna!

They could solve the mystery with an autosomal test but apparently they don't care enough.

Smaug
03-05-2015, 02:13 AM
Old and not gold.

Prisoner Of Ice
03-05-2015, 02:22 AM
Old and not gold.

No one asked you, or cares.

Smaug
03-05-2015, 02:33 AM
No one asked you, or cares.

You do, you even bothered quoting me. Why so rude sport?

Skerdilaid
03-05-2015, 03:03 AM
It's either non African or very old in the British Isles. If it was few centuries old you would obviously see it in the phenotype of his descendants/ancestors, but just as he said, he has no recollection of African ancestry. Strange find anyhow.

Prisoner Of Ice
03-05-2015, 08:27 PM
It's either non African

Well, this is my suspicion. The other is an interesting possibility, though, as well.

Skerdilaid
03-05-2015, 10:10 PM
Well, this is my suspicion. The other is an interesting possibility, though, as well.

How do we know Nendarthals had A00 ?

Prisoner Of Ice
03-05-2015, 10:12 PM
How do we know Nendarthals had A00 ?

We don't know for sure what neanderthals had. They tested one ydna they found for most of the modern clades (which is silly anyway) and it came out negative. However it could still be A00 or even A1 and maybe one or two other old lineages that are not easy to test for.

Bloodnigger
03-05-2015, 10:39 PM
We don't know for sure what neanderthals had. They tested one ydna they found for most of the modern clades (which is silly anyway) and it came out negative. However it could still be A00 or even A1 and maybe one or two other old lineages that are not easy to test for.

Wasn't the neanderthal finding in the French caves hot at some point? Whatever happened to that?