Do Scandinavians have Mongoloid DNA? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik

06-26-2015, 07:39 PM

Sometimes I have heard people say that Scandinavians are part Mongoloid.

I am not referring to the Finns, just Swedes, Norwegians and Danes.

Also I know of the existence of the Saamis but I am asking about ethnic Swedes, Norwegians and Danes.

aksakallicocuk

06-26-2015, 07:44 PM

http://i.hizliresim.com/mP07mY.gif (http://hizliresim.com/mP07mY)
North asian mongoloid haplogroup N. Some Eastern swedes has that.

http://i.hizliresim.com/JYjk1W.gif (http://hizliresim.com/JYjk1W)
East asian admixture.

http://i.hizliresim.com/VVjXqP.gif (http://hizliresim.com/VVjXqP)
An east asian haplogroup Q. exist but not too much

Alessio

06-26-2015, 07:45 PM

Perhaps only the Sweden-Finns in significant percentages outside of Finland.

Dr. Robotnik the Subbotnik

06-26-2015, 07:52 PM

Perhaps only the Sweden-Finns in significant percentages outside of Finland.

Wow Finns must really be Mongols :D

FeederOfRavens

06-26-2015, 08:08 PM

East Asian Dna in Europe(Longbowman made this map a while back with Eurogenes averages)

http://i58.tinypic.com/2drxnvm.jpg

The very sparsely populated far northern regions of Sweden/Norway have some Mongoloid influence(1%-4%) but in the rest of Scandinavia it is negligible(0.1%-0.2%).

VikLevaPatel

01-30-2022, 09:22 PM

Swedes are among the most attractive people on the planet (https://www.thesun.co.uk/world-cup-2018/6693439/sweden-tall-blonde-attractive/), and I recently watched a Swedish series on Netflix and the Swedish girl in the show (probably in her late 20s or early 30s) was DROP DEAD GORGEOUS.

I don't know the exact percentage of Mongoloid admixture, but according to these calculations, Swedes are definitely very "Indo-European" (very much like Ugrian Finns who are at least 75% genetically Indo-European):

Early_Indoeuropean (Swedish 78.8):

https://i.ibb.co/L6FgPJq/1606135827726.png
https://archive.is/JJjOH/65531cb0d580444f26ed2cfb00e5e20525521cd9.png

According to the ratings of Tor Georg Jakobsen - NTNU, Professor in political science from 2015 (https://www.ntnu.edu/employees/tor.g.jakobsen):

Never Marry a Swede - POPULAR SOCIAL SCIENCE

Swedish people are often portayed as kind, beautiful, and tolerant. Despite this, there is one good reason why you should never marry a Swede, unless you want your children to have blonde hair and the character of Attila the Hun.

Well, research shows Swedes and Norwegians have, unlike the rest of Europe, a large share of their genes from the Hunnic invaders of the early middle ages. The evidence is supported both by the archeology and DNA-studies of the current population of southern Scandinavia.

Also, studies by Swedish Professor Åke Daun show that foreigners perceive Swedes as being cold heartless people with a sluggish mind. These are traits that can be attributed to their Attila-genes.

The Great Migrations and the Huns

In the period of the Völkerwanderung several tribes emigrated from southern Scandinavia, due to factors like overpopulation and worsening of the climate. Groups like the Goths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Langobards, Heruli, and Burgunds migrated southwards. Following the downfall of the Western Roman Empire, these tribes laid the foundations for several new kingdoms in Europe.

However, another group joined in on the Völkerwanderung, namely the Huns. A nomadic people from beyond the Volga, they contributed to the downfall of the West Roman Empire, and both fought and allied themselves with the Scandinavian tribes. They were led by their ruler Attila, and the tribe gave its name to present-day Hungary.

DNA-studies – The Mysterious Haplogroup Q

By investigating a man’s Y-chromosome one can determine which haplogroup he belongs to. The markers one looks at (denoted with a letter) tells us which “tribe” your father’s father’s father’s father came from. As previously explored in the article “Who Are We? – Uncovering the Mystery of the Origin of Europeans” I identified the four haplogroups I1, I2a (the original Mesolothic Europeans), R1a, and R1b (the Indo-European invaders) as the true European groups.

Yet, there are other haplogroups present in Europe, such as the Asian N1c1, which is dominant in Finland, and is also found in the Baltics and northern Scandinavia. This marker is easy to explain, as it goes hand in hand with the Uralic languages of the Finns, Estonians, and Samis.

The presence of haplogroup Q in Scandinavia, on the other hand, has been a mystery to scientists. On a world basis, this is the dominant haplogroup among North- and South-American Indians. The red stars on the map show where there is a large presence (more than four percent) of this haplogroup in Europe. When viewing the map, one question naturally springs to mind: Why is there such a heavy presence of this group in southern Scandinavia (and not in Germany, Britain, France, and other countries)?

Several theories emerged. One is that it is from the Sami people coming from the north, however this is easy to dismiss, as haplogroup Q has no correlation with the presence of the Sami/Finn haplogroup N1c1. A more original theory was that it came to the shores of Norway through Eskimos crossing the North Sea in kayaks. This was clearly not a reasonable explanation, as the chance of enough Eskimos surviving such a trip in order to make a significant impact on the Scandinavian gene pool is very slim.

However, one theory seems highly plausible. Haplogroup Q came with the Hunnic invaders from the East. This makes sense with the presence on the steppes (the Huns were a horse-steppe people) as well as in Hungary (where most Huns settled after all the fighting) and in some parts of Slovakia (close to Hungary).

So, how did they come to Scandinavia? Well, it is well known that the Huns often allied themselves with the previously described Scandinavian tribes. The way this was done was that the Huns established themselves as the elite, while the Scandinavians were soldiers. A large group of Huns could very well be amongst the Goths and/or Heruli going back to Scandinavia at the end of the Migration Period. The same explanation can be attributed to the red star marked in southwest France, where a portion of the Huns probably settled together with the Burgunds (as this is also the territory of the first Burgund kingdom).

In present day Scandinavia, more than four percent of men in southeast Sweden and large parts of eastern Norway carry the Hunnic genetic marker, in the rest of southern Sweden and Norway the percentage stands at between three and four percent. This can be considered a significant share of the population, especially when juxtaposed with other parts of Europe.

The Archeology

Facial masks from the period of the Great Migrations show faces with marked Asian features, like this one from Lunde in Telemark, Norway.

According to Professor of Archeology at the University of Oslo, Lotte Hedeager, the old Norwegian (and also Swedish) ruling class consisted of Huns. She argues that a new and strong social order was established with the arrival of the Huns, something that enabled them to resist the victorious Christian countries to the south.

Hedeager goes even further, stating that Attila could very well have been the same person as the Viking god Odin, hijacking the position of the already established Woden. The writings of the Icelandic historian Snorri Sturluson partly support this theory, as he wrote that the Gods (who were called Æsir) came from the area around the Don river in Russia. This link has previously been explored by the famous Norwegian explorer Thor Heyerdahl, with his archeological expedition to Azov in Russia. Also, many of the names given in the Nordic sagas are parallel to the names of Hunnic kings, like Halfdan (Huldin), Roar (Ruga), Ottar (Ottar), and Adils (Attila).

Conclusion

It may be a surprise to many, but it seems like southern Scandinavia has a larger presence of non-European genes than many other parts of Europe. Both DNA- and archeological evidence point to this, more spesific; the presence of haplogroup Q as well as a change in burial traditions in Sweden and Norway. Also, Atle, which is derived from Attila, is a common name in present day Scandinavia.

Following this, our poster boy from my previous article may not be as European as one might expect. Behind those innocent eyes hides the ruthlessness of the Hunnic invaders, who, under their leader Attila, contributed to the end of classical antiquity and led Europe into the dark ages.

Further reading:

Hedeager, Lotte (2011). Iron Age Myth and Materiality. Hoboken: Taylor & Francis.

Jakobsen, Tor G. (2012) “Who Are We? Uncovering the Mystery of the Origin of Europeans” Popular Social Science 1(1).

*Cover photo by Ulrich Berkner, viking helmet photo by Elana Pleskevich

Defcon2

01-30-2022, 09:34 PM

Leto

01-30-2022, 09:43 PM

Usually only Northern Swedes, some Norwegians as well as Swedes with recent Finnish immigrant ancestry do. Less than 5%. But for example the Northern Swedes (Norrland) are only about 15% of the total population, so keep that in mind too.
Obviously I'm excluding Finland and the Sami people.

VikLevaPatel

01-30-2022, 09:47 PM

Genetically Closest Modern Populations to the Bronze Age Population of Sintashta, hypothesized to be the Proto-Indo-Iranian people (Calculated using G25 Vahaduo) (https://i.ibb.co/HXPbHcG/omjp5jylma081-2.png) : r/IndoEuropean (https://archive.is/MKeYo)

The Ruins of Arkaim, an ancient Proto-Indo-Iranian site belonging to the Sintastha Culture, Russia (https://i.ibb.co/PNx0YWg/n6n1ndu80pd81.jpg) [1280x851] : r/ArtefactPorn (https://archive.is/2wDWq)

Eugenics and Racial Biology in Sweden and the USSR: Contacts across the Baltic Sea: https://www.utpjournals.press/doi/pdf/10.3138/cbmh.31.1.41

Admixture analyses indicate that 87% of the Sami gene pool is of European origin (https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg200888) and that the Asian contribution is 13%.

It turns out that ancient DNA of the “first farmers” and their “hunter-gatherer” neighbors in Central Europe (https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/swedes-not-so-homogeneous) reveals a lot of discontinuity between both these groups and modern Europeans.

Ancient DNA from European Early Neolithic Farmers Reveals Their Near Eastern Affinities (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2976717/)

Genetic Discontinuity Between Local Hunter-Gatherers and Central Europe's First Farmers (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26788823_Genetic_Discontinuity_Between_Local_Hunte r-Gatherers_and_Central_Europe's_First_Farmers)

Adaptation of human skin color in various populations (https://archive.is/rrNSx)

Skin color adaptation in modern Eurasians (https://archive.is/rrNSx#selection-1005.0-1037.3). In Europeans, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 are two golden genes related to the evolution of the light skin color. SLC24A5 encodes the NCKX5 protein, which is a member of the transmembrane protein family and regulates the calcium concentration in the melanosome.

VikLevaPatel

01-30-2022, 09:50 PM

Vahaduo's tool tutorial.

Kalevan ja Untamon geenit: New Vahaduo samples for Eurogenes K13 calculator (http://terheninenmaa.blogspot.com/2020/12/new-vahaduo-samples-for-eurogenes-k13.html)
Ancient DNA Era: West Iranian vs. East Iranian ancestry (https://i.ibb.co/rt72dpR/Screenshot-20190925-125232.png) (with Vahaduo's tool tutorial) (https://archive.is/c3YnT/bf7b46e19e5486da5b67557b4f88186f250a0d83.png) – Ancient DNA Era (https://adnaera.com/2019/09/25/west-iranian-vs-east-iranian-ancestry-with-vahaduos-tool-tutorial/comment-page-1/)
Why do Mongolians look partly Caucasian? (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Mongolians-look-partly-Caucasian)
Global25 workshop 1: that classic West Eurasian plot (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/05/global25-workshop-1-that-classic-west.html)
Playing with percentages (https://www.legalgenealogist.com/2013/11/24/playing-with-percentages/)

The Legal Genealogist (https://www.legalgenealogist.com/2013/11/24/playing-with-percentages/) keeps saying, over and over, that the admixture percentages we see in all the autosomal DNA test results are only good for cocktail party conversation. The point is that when a substantial portion of your DNA doesn’t align with any of the populations (https://www.dataminingdna.com/eurogenes-on-gedmatch-explained-for-beginners/) within the model, the calculator will assign it to the nearest fit. If you have a good idea about your ancestry going back several generations (https://archive.is/r4FWu#selection-1277.0-1281.285), you can usually see that the calculator is giving you a community “close by”. But if you are exploring your admixtures from a position of uncertainty, there’s no real way to be sure that the results are valid.

This Vahaduo source (https://archive.is/F70TG) works, not only for Finns, but also for most Europeans (https://archive.is/mAphL).

Distance to: SW1
4.84321484 Swedish
9.08565941 German2
14.37614628 English
14.72009511 Southwest_Finnish
15.76318309 Scottish
15.84575634 Irish
17.47483333 Slovakian
17.88565906 Tavastian
18.92738212 Polish
19.24172622 German1
20.23058121 Slovenian
20.39940212 Hungarian
21.58759922 Estonian
22.51913255 Belarusian
23.21613562 Ukrainian
23.76764296 Russian
24.60226697 Russian_Kostroma
25.63138067 Croatian
26.14884458 French_North
27.32738215 Bosnia
27.64882095 Karelian
29.10068083 Russian_Mezen
29.50282800 Latvian
30.00713362 Serbian
32.10111998 Romanian2

Distance to: SW2
4.76361942 Swedish
9.97842382 English
11.42925225 German2
11.76333630 Scottish
12.10173021 Irish
17.12042371 German1
19.07677908 Southwest_Finnish
19.96951777 Slovakian
21.15879233 French_North
21.22635501 Hungarian
21.41630258 Slovenian
21.47577472 Tavastian
22.97493404 Polish
26.14389871 Estonian
26.35315987 Croatian
26.73044689 Belarusian
27.03256986 Ukrainian
28.00378853 Russian
28.31131320 Bosnia
28.67605796 Russian_Kostroma
30.03418166 Serbian
31.60110922 Romanian2
32.02785975 Karelian
32.14945048 Montenegro
32.54866510 Spain

Distance to: SW3
8.02847619 Swedish
8.99989344 English
9.40301978 Scottish
9.84646200 Irish
15.25318678 German2
17.95213436 German1
18.47882770 French_North
22.64883441 Southwest_Finnish
23.73382776 Slovakian
24.71526101 Hungarian
24.72452984 Slovenian
24.76293399 Tavastian
26.99272150 Polish
29.47236121 Croatian
29.95231744 Estonian
30.74116314 Belarusian
31.03001987 Ukrainian
31.53144549 Bosnia
32.03265852 Russian
32.16611478 Spain
32.58664174 Russian_Kostroma
32.73064174 French_South
32.91061968 Serbian
34.07996690 Romanian2
34.48848309 Montenegro

Distance to: SW4
3.81253852 Swedish
6.64648983 German2
13.54126516 English
14.44289445 Southwest_Finnish
15.20179660 Slovakian
15.86385454 Scottish
16.05830794 Irish
17.28767769 Tavastian
17.38012238 Polish
17.48186455 German1
17.70703722 Hungarian
17.77960281 Slovenian
20.77372956 Estonian
21.08878448 Belarusian
21.62329468 Ukrainian
22.50941474 Russian
23.15078130 Croatian
23.51051850 Russian_Kostroma
24.92523932 Bosnia
25.53229118 French_North
27.34321305 Karelian
27.46973513 Serbian
28.22881019 Russian_Mezen
28.84988180 Latvian
29.66774316 Romanian2

Distance to: SW5
6.09082343 Swedish
10.66061851 German2
14.40710248 English
15.12088622 Southwest_Finnish
15.77845496 Scottish
16.03133912 Irish
17.44159970 Tavastian
19.03409572 Slovakian
20.26209732 German1
20.70300205 Polish
21.31218916 Hungarian
21.74168384 Slovenian
22.55908420 Estonian
23.98027671 Belarusian
24.72684559 Ukrainian
25.22431113 Russian
25.44401305 Russian_Kostroma
25.66503289 French_North
26.87700123 Croatian
27.88835779 Karelian
28.55253920 Bosnia
29.49133983 Russian_Mezen
30.75229487 Latvian
30.96281137 Serbian
33.07117724 Romanian2

Distance to: SW6
4.42335054 Swedish
8.95804789 English
9.49628806 German2
11.90595905 Scottish
12.27389237 Irish
14.37436426 German1
17.56876034 Slovakian
18.28533366 Hungarian
18.42977417 Slovenian
19.00701186 Southwest_Finnish
20.55168930 French_North
21.43817096 Polish
21.48812463 Tavastian
23.19275480 Croatian
25.22346437 Bosnia
25.30722847 Ukrainian
25.49494403 Belarusian
25.72811653 Estonian
26.64079601 Russian
26.74136249 Serbian
27.51869619 Russian_Kostroma
28.25581080 Romanian2
28.74502646 Montenegro
29.93743710 Spain
30.48948040 Macedonia

English,49.677,24.412,13.07,4.5,4.9,0.336,0.863,0. 148,0.299,0.731,0.496,0.311,0.349
French_South,46.981,9.412,31.737,0.827,6.614,1.522 ,1.15,0.722,0.24,0.275,0.127,0.342,0.182
French_North,55.948,14.674,16.21,3.28,6.702,1.188, 0.44,0.543,0.275,0.205,0.224,0.115,0.185
Italian_South,16.7,5.93,22.123,15.056,31.91,5.922, 0.361,0.22,0.168,0.29,0.388,0.57,0.357
Spanish,40.506,10.274,27.622,2.481,12.516,3.556,0. 124,0.291,0.181,0.26,0.247,1.528,0.41
Italian_North,29.601,8.45,28.49,7.156,23.531,1.235 ,0.088,0.431,0.298,0.178,0.135,0.204,0.195
German1,40.98,22.224,17.045,7.311,7.312,1.644,1.7, 0.13,0.235,0.227,0.698,0.242,0.242
German2,39.258,36.3,10.721,5.077,4.763,1.013,0.546 ,0.146,0.551,0.41,0.667,0.228,0.313
Swedish,46.05,32.957,9.932,4.922,2.47,0.256,0.676, 0.458,0.836,0.556,0.513,0.15,0.216
Southwest_Finnish,37.56,46.00,5.45,3.16,0.04,0.33, 0.12,0.00,5.89,1.11,0.32,0.02,0.00
Estonian,31.866,51.594,6.549,2.363,1.251,0.589,1.5 05,0.095,2.358,0.741,0.552,0.266,0.261
Russian_Kostroma,26.193,48.541,6.213,5.351,3.188,0 .391,1.046,0.685,6.373,1.155,0.52,0.188,0.156
Russian,26.31,48.045,8.885,6.672,4.547,0.636,1.006 ,0.137,2.257,0.746,0.423,0.123,0.205
Albanian,19.734,16.541,22.602,12.227,24.39,2.957,0 .275,0.468,0.181,0.068,0.248,0.192,0.111
Latvian,26.637,58.04,6.593,3.486,0.75,0.626,0.736, 0.33,1.388,0.673,0.386,0.206,0.143
Belarusian,28.062,48.437,9.881,4.361,4.146,0.612,1 .576,0.401,1.142,0.603,0.483,0.251,0.036
Slovenian,30.64,33.38,15.452,7.036,9.799,1.159,0.6 63,0.335,0.466,0.484,0.326,0.156,0.096
Slovakian,31.249,37.837,12.506,6.228,7.285,1.154,1 .01,0.466,0.557,0.66,0.556,0.168,0.318
Greek,17.685,15.644,21.528,13.436,26.398,3.633,0.2 59,0.291,0.25,0.323,0.357,0.061,0.125
Croatian,26.584,31.742,16.303,7.852,13.065,1.641,0 .78,0.247,0.657,0.441,0.418,0.147,0.118
Scottish,52.826,22.921,12.332,5.87,2.144,0.872,1.1 94,0.086,0.418,0.701,0.207,0.257,0.165
Irish,52.833,22.767,12.325,6.616,1.857,0.578,1.062 ,0.175,0.254,0.87,0.5,0.049,0.106
Hungarian,30.533,34.834,13.216,5.147,11.623,0.895, 0.868,0.523,0.77,0.664,0.394,0.263,0.263
Bulgarian,21.495,22.652,19.231,12.314,19.137,2.267 ,0.658,0.172,0.73,0.432,0.702,0.074,0.134
Romanian,24.835,24.865,18.245,9.897,17.78,1.138,0. 601,0.719,0.698,0.576,0.455,0.042,0.145
Ukrainian,26.186,45.677,10.455,6.428,6.071,1.162,0 .637,0.157,1.206,1.03,0.562,0.176,0.24
Polish,30.081,44.265,10.871,6.084,4.654,0.72,0.764 ,0.174,0.637,0.614,0.445,0.347,0.338
Basque1,56.213,0.038,41.814,0.003,0.003,0.374,0.59 8,0.099,0.138,0.2,0.334,0.154,0.022
Basque2,50.699,7.098,36.482,0.064,2.717,1.296,0.34 2,0.335,0.183,0.269,0.392,0.089,0.027
Montenegro,24.732,24.324,18.21,10.075,18.257,2.868 ,0.188,0.008,0.597,0.512,0.211,0.001,0.005
Kosovo,22.381,18.054,20.8,12.687,22.075,2.468,0.38 4,0.341,0.195,0.235,0.345,0.021,0.01
Bosnian,24.556,32.642,15.516,8.866,13.825,1.705,0. 928,0.604,0.586,0.412,0.237,0.018,0.1
Macedonian,23.241,24.62,17.983,10.66,19.65,1.983,0 .444,0.343,0.197,0.331,0.44,0.031,0.07
Serbian,24.52,29.607,17.059,8.873,15.95,1.4,0.416, 0.444,0.591,0.406,0.458,0.11,0.049
Saami2,19.735,45.735,0.38,0.695,0,0.35,1.015,0.985 ,24.865,4.32,0.55,0.85,0.525
Russian_Mezen,24.455,51.755,4.22,3.535,1.45,0.605, 2.06,0.135,10.52,1.22,0,0.03,0.02
Karelian,28.62,54.72,0.36,3.98,0.00,1.26,1.23,0.00 ,7.06,1.81,0.00,0.25,0.72
Tavastian,36.72,47.40,3.54,0.04,0.00,1.23,1.72,0.1 2,7.05,1.12,0.82,0.00,0.24
Saami1,22.19,42.00,0.79,0.04,0.00,0.00,1.94,2.31,2 2.88,2.69,1.15,0.00,0.00
Portuguese,38.596,11.088,25.973,1.953,13.88,3.104, 0.542,0.246,0.285,0.543,0.221,1.838,1.677
Moldovian,22.697,32.415,15.202,11.17,12.62,1.372,1 .085,0.84,1.24,0.627,0.52,0.082,0.127
Ashkenazi,18.492,8.685,17.447,9.557,34.727,6.432,1 .227,0.85,0.93,0.22,0.175,0.477,0.772
Czech,33.55,38.305,10.465,7.535,6.725,0.965,1.17,0 ,0.05,0.695,0.085,0.435,0
Croatian2,27.819,33.985,14.75,7.85,11.196,1.635,0. 622,0.61,0.557,0.642,0.082,0.045,0.166

Cristiano viejo

01-30-2022, 09:54 PM

A picture is worth a thousand words

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/files/og_thumbnail/uploads/2020/11/25/60e7112ae9d16.jpeg

VikLevaPatel

01-30-2022, 10:31 PM

According to a research article published in PLoS ONE (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016747), Swedes – especially southern Swedes – are genetically close to the Germans and British, while their genetic distance to Finns is substantially longer. The overall structure within Sweden appeared clinal, and the substructure in the southern and middle parts was subtle. In contrast, the northern part of Sweden, Norrland, exhibited pronounced genetic differences both within the area and relative to the rest of the country. These distinctive genetic features of Norrland probably result mainly from isolation by distance and genetic drift caused by low population density.

The use of genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) data has recently proven useful in the study of human population structure. We have studied the internal genetic structure of the Swedish population using more than 350,000 SNPs from 1525 Swedes from all over the country genotyped on the Illumina HumanHap550 array. We have also compared them to 3212 worldwide reference samples, including Finns, northern Germans, British and Russians, based on the more than 29,000 SNPs that overlap between the Illumina and Affymetrix 250K Sty arrays. The Swedes – especially southern Swedes – were genetically close to the Germans and British, while their genetic distance to Finns was substantially longer. The overall structure within Sweden appeared clinal, and the substructure in the southern and middle parts was subtle. In contrast, the northern part of Sweden, Norrland, exhibited pronounced genetic differences both within the area and relative to the rest of the country. These distinctive genetic features of Norrland probably result mainly from isolation by distance and genetic drift caused by low population density. The internal structure within Sweden (FST = 0.0005 between provinces) was stronger than that in many Central European populations, although smaller than what has been observed for instance in Finland; importantly, it is of the magnitude that may hamper association studies with a moderate number of markers if cases and controls are not properly matched geographically. Overall, our results underline the potential of genome-wide data in analyzing substructure in populations that might otherwise appear relatively homogeneous, such as the Swedes.

VikLevaPatel

01-30-2022, 10:36 PM

A picture is worth a thousand words

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/files/og_thumbnail/uploads/2020/11/25/60e7112ae9d16.jpeg

Well Well Well:

Swedes (https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0016747) are genetically close to Germans and Brits (https://archive.is/aI6Gu). (And how they excel at speaking English!)

But these distinctive genetic features of Norrland result mainly from isolation by distance and genetic drift caused by low population density.

Definitions (https://biomed.brown.edu/Courses/BIO48/5.Geno.Pheno.HTML): phenotype is the constellation of observable traits; genotype is the genetic endowment of the individual.

Phenotype = genotype + development (in a given environment). (https://archive.is/YOqnw)

112379

DNA Basics Chapter 8: Genotypes and Phenotypes (https://blog.myheritage.com/2018/09/dna-basics-chapter-8-genotypes-and-phenotypes/)
Genotype versus phenotype - Understanding Evolution: https://evolution.berkeley.edu/genotype-versus-phenotype/
Genetic Dominance: Genotype-Phenotype Relationships: https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-dominance-genotype-phenotype-relationships-489/
The Genotype/Phenotype Distinction: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/genotype-phenotype/
Genotype vs Phenotype - Difference and Comparison | Diffen (https://www.diffen.com/difference/Genotype_vs_Phenotype)
The differential view of genotype–phenotype relationships: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2015.00179/full
Swedish Population Substructure Revealed by Genome-Wide Single Nucleotide Polymorphism Data (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016747)
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?175323-Do-Scandinavians-have-Mongoloid-DNA&p=7422777&viewfull=1#post7422777
Genotype vs Phenotype - Genetic Education (https://geneticeducation.co.in/genotype-vs-phenotype/): https://i.ibb.co/Ch3nQdH/Genotype-vs-phenotype-001-e1590984639772.jpg
What are the Causes of Genotype and Phenotype? - Sciencing (https://sciencing.com/causes-genotype-phenotype-18488.html)
Genotype Versus Phenotype - News Medical (https://www.news-medical.net/health/Genotype-Versus-Phenotype.aspx)
What is genotype? What is phenotype? – pgEd (https://pged.org/what-is-genotype-what-is-phenotype/)
Genotype and phenotype - Science Learning Hub (https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/207-genotype-and-phenotype)
Genetic difference: genotype and phenotype | ALRC (https://www.alrc.gov.au/publication/essentially-yours-the-protection-of-human-genetic-information-in-australia-alrc-report-96/02-genetics-and-human-health-a-primer/genetic-difference-genotype-and-phenotype/)
Genotype-Phenotype Distinction - an overview - Science Direct (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/genotype-phenotype-distinction)
Genotype to phenotype: a complex problem - PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20413493/)

Why can you possess traits neither of your parents have? The relationship of genotype to phenotype is rarely as simple as the dominant and recessive patterns described by Mendel.

The characteristics of an organism emerge through complex interactions of its genetic make-up and the effects of the environment. The predominant current-day meaning of genotype is some relevant part of the DNA passed to the organism by its parents. The phenotype is the physical and behavioral traits of the organism, for example, size and shape, metabolic activities, and patterns of movement. The distinction between them is especially important in evolutionary theory, where the survival and mating of organisms depends on their traits, but it is the DNA, held to be unaffected by the development of the traits over the life course, that is transmitted to the next generation.

We sometimes seem to have forgotten that the original question in genetics was not what makes a protein but rather ‘what makes a dog a dog, a man a man.’
(Noble, 2006)

Leto

01-30-2022, 11:16 PM

VikLevaPatel

01-31-2022, 12:04 AM

That article about Swedes being part Hunnic is obviously nonsense. First of all, 4% Q (haplogroup) does not translate to 4% Hunnic autosomally, let alone Asian. By that logic, Kyrgyz people should be 50-60% Indo-European or Aryan, which we know cannot be true.
Southern Sweden is essentially identical to Southern Norway and much of Denmark in terms of DNA.

Distance to: Danish
0.85667964 Norwegian_Southcentral
0.86907997 Swedish_Götaland
1.18978990 Norwegian
2.07968748 German_Lower_Saxony_North
2.49040157 Swedish_West-Svealand

I guess they write articles like that in order to promote the ideology of diversity and mixity.

So True, Leto. Haplogroup results are ***not*** Autosomal results.

Although they can be confused with one another and although they can match, or correlate highly with, one another. It may even be possible to make generalizations, which must be interpreted with extreme caution.

Paternal/Maternal Haplogroup Geographic Distribution: https://i.ibb.co/rp759TM/sequencing.png, https://archive.is/F1FQP/412e85d2633abfed2bdda81a0152fd148fcbb4dd.png
The Peopling of Europe from the Maternal and Paternal Perspectives: https://archive.is/XxuaT

In India, for example, it is possible, in rather broad terms, to make some generalisations. H is found in greater percentage among the Austro-Asiatic tribal population, L among the Dravidian language (such as Tamil and Telugu) speaking non-tribal population, R1a1 among speakers of the Indo-European languages (such as Hindi, Punjabi and Bengali). But there is no way on this basis to distinguish any individual from another. An individual with R1a1 could as well be a tribal as an Indo-European language speaker (https://archive.md/cMDJg#selection-665.0-691.20). The most frequent haplogroup among the Indian upper castes belongs to R lineages. The high incidence of this haplogroup is restricted only to the IE- and DR-speaking groups (https://archive.is/gOVkv#selection-1575.0-1583.61). H, L, and R2 are the major Indian Y-chromosomal haplogroups that occur both in castes and in tribal populations and are rarely found outside the subcontinent. There is no distinction, in the presence or absence of these major clades, between tribal and caste groups. Altogether, three clades—H, L, and R2—account for more than one-third of Indian Y chromosomes. They are also found in decreasing frequencies in central Asians to the north and in Middle Eastern populations to the west. It is noteworthy that the West Eurasian- or Indian-specific haplogroups such as H, J and R are also found in the TB-speaking individuals (https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg201198). The presence of South-Asian-specific paternal lineages in Rajbanshis might have been the result of extensive male gene flow from IE- to TB-speaking groups. The presence of the so called west/central Asian lineages like J2, R1 and R2 in most of the endogamous tribal populations (https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg20082), and its higher STR diversity indicates its presence in the sub-continent much before the arrival of the Indo-European pastoralists.

On the Other Hand:

The "sub-Saharan" haplogroup E1b1a* is very recent in India and is found only among the tribal Siddhis of Gujarat and Southern States.

It is believed they were brought over by the Portuguese as slaves a few centuries ago.

They are still predominantly sub-Saharan African in ancestry but have acquired not insignificant genes from local Indo-European, Dravidian, and Austro-Asiatic speakers.

So much so, that they are now about one-third South Asian.

Russki

02-03-2022, 07:23 AM

This study detected small amount of Mongoloid admixture in samples from Central-Northern Europe.

Scandinavia has higher than others.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Population_structure_of_Caribbean_and_neighboring_ populations.png

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Population-structure-of-Caribbean-and-neighboring-populations-A-Areas-in-red-indicate_fig1_258639427

Lemminkäinen

02-03-2022, 07:28 AM

Odin came from Central Asia.

VikLevaPatel

02-25-2022, 11:46 PM

Here's a comparison:

EUROGENES
EUTEST K13

SWEDISH
NORTH-CENTRAL EURO 25.11 to 99.49 (Midrange 62.3)
SOUTH BALTIC 0 to 37.65 (Midrange 18.825)
ATLANTIC 0 to 27.4 (Midrange 13.7)
EAST EURO 0 to 19.63 (Midrange 9.815)
WEST MED 0 to 10.88 (Midrange 5.44)
WEST ASIAN 0 to 5.31 (Midrange 2.565)

https://i.ibb.co/D8XBnKZ/screencapture-genoplot-admix-2022-02-26-11-20-07.png

Swedes are primarily North-Central Euro, followed by South Baltic, Atlantic, and East Euro.
Brits are are primarily Atlantic, followed by North-Central Euro, West Med, and East Euro.

Obviously, the main difference is the SOUTH BALTIC component, and a second important difference is that Swedes are much more EAST EURO (9.815 vs. 5.28) and the Brits are more WEST MED (7.36 vs. 5.44).

BRITISH ENGLISH
ATLANTIC 15.79 to 95.94 (Midrange 55.865)
NORTH-CENTRAL EURO 0 to 70.12 (Midrange 35.06)
WEST MED 0 to 14.72 (Midrange 7.36)
EAST EURO 0 to 10.56 (Midrange 5.28)
SOUTH BALTIC 0 to 9.44 (Midrange 4.72)
WEST ASIAN 0 to 4.46 (Midrange 2.23)

https://i.ibb.co/qMzhN09/screencapture-genoplot-admix.png

sample: Swedish:Sweden9: https://i.ibb.co/8s4Zz3J/sweden9.png (NORTH-CENTRAL EURO: 30.6, ATLANTIC: 22.6, WEST AFRICAN: 0.01, SOUTH BALTIC: 17.59, EAST EURO: 14.87, WEST MED: 8.87, WEST ASIAN: 3.56, SOUTH ASIAN: 0, EAST MED: 1.9, EAST AFRICAN: 0, SIBERIAN: 0, MIDDLE EASTERN: 0)

sample and distance:
South_&_Central_Swedish 2.13
Norwegian 3.28
Danish 5.48
North_Swedish 6.68
Dutch 7.27
West_&_Central_German 7.58
English 8.65
Orcadian 9.49
Irish 10.78
Cornish 10.98

sample: British English:HG00128: https://i.ibb.co/WDsMCjj/eng.png (ATLANTIC: 37.55, EAST EURO: 0.85, WEST ASIAN: 0.48, SOUTH BALTIC: 1.31, NORTH-CENTRAL EURO: 52.01, WEST MED: 5.79, EAST MED: 2.02, SOUTH ASIAN: 0, MIDDLE EASTERN: 0, SIBERIAN: 0, EAST AFRICAN: 0)

sample and distance:
English 29.76
Scottish 30.38
Irish 31.05
Orcadian 31.08
Danish 31.09
Cornish 31.55
Dutch 32.57
Norwegian 32.74
South_&_Central_Swedish 33.74
West_&_Central_German 33.78
French 36.41
North_Swedish 37.86
French_Basque 41.19
Portuguese 41.37
Spanish 41.45
Austrian 42.84
Czech 47
South_Finnish 47.39
North_Italian 47.75
Kaikavian_Croatian 48.77

As stated here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?342599-How-Viking-Are-You-Genomelink&p=7442868&viewfull=1#post7442868), these admixture calculators should be used primarily for making intra- and inter-racial/ethnic comparisons.

VikLevaPatel

02-27-2022, 12:51 AM

Here's a comparison:

Here's another comparison using the MDLP K33 calculator:

Brahmin UttarPradesh : https://i.ibb.co/2Zqr8xd/bup.png

Indian (48.67-100), Baltic (0-1.28), Caucasian (0.45-7.99), Finnougric (0-2.95), Westeuropean (0-8.78), Centralasian (0-29.16), Dravidian (0-19.96), Easteuropean (0-4.71).

Brahmin UttarPradesh Midranges: 74.335 Indian, 14.58 Centralasian, 9.98 Dravidian, 4.39 Westeuropean, 4.22 Caucasian, 2.355 Easteuropean, 1.475 Finnougric, 0.64 Baltic.

Chamars on the other hand are:

0-96.53 Indian, 3.11-89.34, Dravidian, 0-15.69 Centralasian, 0-9.01 Sinotibetan.

Chamar Midranges: 48.265 Indian, 46.225 Dravidian, 7.845 Centralasian, 4.505 Sinotibetan.

https://i.ibb.co/2n7QdPt/chamar.png

So obviously UP Brahmins are primarily Indian, followed by Centralasian, whereas Chamars are primarily Indian and Dravidian. Morever, UP Brahmins carry much more Centralasian (14.58 vs. 7.845), Westeuropean (4.39 vs. 1.13), Easteuropean (2.355 vs. 0.045), and Caucasian (4.22 vs. 1.25) ancestries.

Compare the above, with British Samples (not that we can really):

https://i.ibb.co/3dkbjCW/english.png

British: Westeuropean 71.52-79.95, Easteuropean 2.36-13.36, Scandinavian 0-9.42, Southeuropean 0-8.95, Westasian 0-5.85, Centralasian 0-5.36, Finnougric 0-4.37, Centraleuropean 0-2.68, Baltic 0-2.6.

https://i.ibb.co/3dkbjCW/english.png

Swedish : Westeuropean 63.1-86.61, Easteuropean 4.06-22.45, Finnougric 0-9.4-11.84, Scandinavian 0-4.87, Centraleuropean 0-2.75, Centralasian 0-1.84.

https://i.ibb.co/9Tp716h/swedes.png

Brits and Swedes are primarily Westeuropean, with the major difference being that Swedes carry much more Finnougric and Easteuropean ancestries.

VikLevaPatel

05-02-2022, 09:11 PM

As stated here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?342599-How-Viking-Are-You-Genomelink&p=7442868&viewfull=1#post7442868), these admixture calculators should be used primarily for making intra- and inter-racial/ethnic comparisons.

I stand corrected on this point. Genoplot is an excellent tool for making personal comparisons. That is, comparing your selected admixture results (such as your steppe admixture) with the findings from other genetic tests. In my particular case, Genoplot has been most useful for comparing results for the Euro Hunter-Gatherer, Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), Early European Farmer (EEF), Steppe Pastoralist (Yamnaya), and Sintashta populations with results particularly from FTDNA, Genomelink, GenePlaza, and Illustrative DNA (G25).

SO LONG AS you are comparing apples and apples and not apples against oranges.

GEDmatch on the other hand . . . :picard2::rolleyes2::shakefist:lmao:lmao:lmao:rotf l::rotfl::rotfl::1127::smilie_stop::smilie_stop::s milie_stop::machine gun::machine gun::machine gun::hitler::2headsalt::banghead::flynch::comp26:: cussing:dumbass::violin::fuckyou::puke::bullet puke

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?358422-Privacy-Error-Let-This-Be-A-Warning&p=7494159#post7494159

I Nuked My Gedmatch Account From Orbit :thumb001::thumb001::thumb001:

Numbskulls would have you believe that I (and for that matter, my caste and my lineage) only carry a measly 1-3 percent Steppe ancestry, when, in actual fact, the opposite is true.

Steppe 1.16 https://i.ibb.co/WnXsKgV/steppe.png joker000:

Steppe 1.82 Pct https://i.ibb.co/Gc7RGqw/steppekit.png

Steppe 2.66 Pct https://i.ibb.co/C8RMc6s/gedmatch.png

VIK LEWA

06-06-2023, 05:55 AM

http://i.hizliresim.com/JYjk1W.gif (http://hizliresim.com/JYjk1W)
East asian admixture.

Eupedia... :zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:yawnee20::yawnee20::yawne e20::zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:yawnee20::yawnee20::y awnee20:

I was actually looking at the Caspian Sea instead of the Black Sea. It's easier to make this mistake than you'd think, as the whole Central Asian region was, for the most part, historically Indo-Iranian or Aryan.

121220

https://imgflip.com/i/7o2vxl

They're not a fan of The Apricity, and they've also made the startling, fraudulent, fabricated and false claim that FTDNA's 'Ancient European Origins' (https://archive.is/PCaiQ) feature is incorrect and misleading! They obviously think the Indo-European component is a bit silly, and not to be taken seriously, but in the end you can't help feeling that they're butthurt over the fact that they scored comparatively low on the ancientOrigins test measuring Indo-European ancestry. There's simply no way that this level of "crazy" and "insane" can be for real.

Luckily for us, we now have Genoplot's calculators to guide us and to figure out how much East Asian ancestry someone has, but as Science Magazine (https://www.science.org/content/article/how-accurate-your-family-tree) explains, to determine how much East Asian or African ancestry someone has, their DNA is matched against a true "East Asian" or "African" sample. Though, of course, it's not as simple as that. Not everyone, however, agrees on what this is, and even if they did, that East Asian or African may have ancestry that's more mixed, or more "multiple," than can be gleaned from current techniques.

I have recently gone through the online calculators available at the Genoplot website, and I can only find that the Swedes and the east Europeans score low on tests measuring East Asian or Mongol ancestry. Cossacks, from what I can see, generally carry some degree of Mongol genetic ancestry (many of the Transbaykal Cossacks, as Rayfield (2013) (https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Dream_of_Lhasa/V3ndLDdw15EC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=cossacks+mongol+ancestry&pg=PT47&printsec=frontcover) points out, were of Buryat Mongol blood), and Ukranians are on average around 1.5 percent Paleo-Asian. And that's about it. But I highly doubt that Ukrainians even carry 1 to 2 percent East Asian genes on average, regardless of what Eupedia would have you think or would have us believe. Some samples actually show that they are 100 percent Aryan. I have yet to find any trace, or, at least, any substantial trace, of them (Mongols) or any traces of East Asian elements in Swedes or in any other European genome. However, this is not to say that these samples, or at least some of these samples, do not contain minor amounts of East Asian genetic elements, or at least some amount of it. Moreover, certain samples of Swedish origin or of Ukrainian origin may indeed contain small traces of East Asian ancestry or contain traces of certain East Asian genetic materials, as the following example illustrates.

Sample: Gotland VA o ► Average
Calculator: Ultimate World Deep Ancestry
Siberia Uralic-like Hunter-Gatherer RUS Krasnoyarsk BA: 7.8
Japan Jomon Hunter-Gatherer JPN Jomon: 2.2

Sample: Gotland VA o ► Average
Calculator: Central Asian - Iron Age
Srubnaya IA: 80
Greek: 0
Persian: 0
Scythian: 0
Mongol: 20

Sample: Gotland VA o ► Average
Calculator: Tripartite + Central Asian Iron Age
Steppe: 82.2
Greek: 0
Persian: 0
Mongol: 17.8
Scythian: 0

Sample: Gotland VA o ► Average
Calculator: GNETICSIKIRU G25 South/Central Asia
RUS Sintashta MLBA: 89.8
TUR Kaman-Kalehoyuk MLBA: 0
NPL Samdzong 1500BP: 3.6
MNG Mongol: 6.6

Again, this seems to be correct as well. And I seem to be getting it right.

Sample: Cossack Kuban ► Average
Calculator: Ultimate World Deep Ancestry
Siberia Uralic-like Hunter-Gatherer RUS Krasnoyarsk BA: 2.6
Amur Basin Hunter-Gatherer RUS Devils Gate Cave N: 1.4

The Swedes and the Ukrainians, on the other hand, do not carry those genes, and their ancestral components are pretty much the same, namely, Yamnaya Steppe, Anatolia Neolithic, and Baltic Narva Hunter-Gatherer.

Sample: Swedish ► Average
Calculator: Ultimate World Deep Ancestry
Pontic Steppe Yamnaya Pastoralist Yamnaya RUS Samara: 45.4
Anatolia Neolithic Farmer TUR Barcin N: 33
Baltics Narva Hunter-Gatherer Baltic LTU Narva: 21.6
Siberia Uralic-like Hunter-Gatherer RUS Krasnoyarsk BA: 0
Amur Basin Hunter-Gatherer RUS Devils Gate Cave N: 0
Japan Jomon Hunter-Gatherer JPN Jomon: 0
Levant Neolithic Farmer Levant PPNB: 0
Levant Natufian Hunter-Gatherer Levant Natufian: 0
Iran Neolithic Farmer IRN Ganj Dareh N: 0
Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer GEO CHG: 0
West Europe Hunter-Gatherer WHG: 0
Morocco Early Neolithic Farmer MAR EN: 0

Sample: Ukrainian ► Average
Calculator: Ultimate World Deep Ancestry
Pontic Steppe Yamnaya Pastoralist Yamnaya RUS Samara: 45.4
Anatolia Neolithic Farmer TUR Barcin N: 33.4
Baltics Narva Hunter-Gatherer Baltic LTU Narva: 21.2
Siberia Uralic-like Hunter-Gatherer RUS Krasnoyarsk BA: 0
Amur Basin Hunter-Gatherer RUS Devils Gate Cave N: 0
Japan Jomon Hunter-Gatherer JPN Jomon: 0
Levant Neolithic Farmer Levant PPNB: 0
Levant Natufian Hunter-Gatherer Levant Natufian: 0
Iran Neolithic Farmer IRN Ganj Dareh N: 0
Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer GEO CHG: 0
West Europe Hunter-Gatherer WHG: 0
Morocco Early Neolithic Farmer MAR EN: 0
Cossacks also seem to be sharing the same components.

Sample: Cossack Ukrainian ► Average
Calculator: Ultimate World Deep Ancestry
Pontic Steppe Yamnaya Pastoralist Yamnaya RUS Samara: 45.2
Anatolia Neolithic Farmer TUR Barcin N: 32.2
Baltics Narva Hunter-Gatherer Baltic LTU Narva: 22.6
Siberia Uralic-like Hunter-Gatherer RUS Krasnoyarsk BA: 0
Amur Basin Hunter-Gatherer RUS Devils Gate Cave N: 0
Japan Jomon Hunter-Gatherer JPN Jomon: 0
Levant Neolithic Farmer Levant PPNB: 0
Levant Natufian Hunter-Gatherer Levant Natufian: 0
Iran Neolithic Farmer IRN Ganj Dareh N: 0
Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer GEO CHG: 0
West Europe Hunter-Gatherer WHG: 0
Morocco Early Neolithic Farmer MAR EN: 0

Östsvensk

06-06-2023, 06:48 AM

Lemminkäinen

06-06-2023, 08:59 AM

I wonder why people continue asking this same question years after years, but not how much SSA is found in Portugal or Spain. Okay forget thus question, it is too disturbing.

I made a PCA plot using G25 data and found that Swedes are close Central European Corded Ware people and Finns East European Fatyanovo, on the x axis (28%) all ancient North and East Asian, the y axis (20%) extremities North European Hunter Gatherers and Anatolian Farmers and LBK, LBK being also another extremity on the x axis.

Russki

06-06-2023, 09:37 AM

https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41467-018-07483-5/MediaObjects/41467_2018_7483_Fig4_HTML.png?as=webp

Ancient Fennoscandian genomes reveal origin and spread of Siberian ancestry in Europe
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07483-5

https://sun9-22.userapi.com/impg/v-VipT3kTux-CaIlkGEyVkvBZW1fN2vYB-VSqw/AIIi7uoZzso.jpg?size=1184x1660&quality=95&sign=b3e8a7e58661539e6995dff88155995e&type=album

Östsvensk

06-06-2023, 09:44 AM

https://sun9-22.userapi.com/impg/v-VipT3kTux-CaIlkGEyVkvBZW1fN2vYB-VSqw/AIIi7uoZzso.jpg?size=1184x1660&quality=95&sign=b3e8a7e58661539e6995dff88155995e&type=album

I thought it was common knowledge by now on these forums that those Russians represent Kargopol Russians, but oh well.

ugochaves

06-06-2023, 11:25 AM

I thought it was common knowledge by now on these forums that those Russians represent Kargopol Russians, but oh well.

I tried several Swedes whose data I saw on another forum. A very low percentage of Siberia from 0-1.2%. Tell me, who are the northern Swedes, how many of them are in percentage relation to other Swedes? Is there a G25 result of the northern Swede.? Russians are still unclear why the Russians of the far north appear in most studies. Why not the main Russians. For example, my wife in g25 does not have Siberia at all 0.2-0.4%, she is Western Russian. I have about 1.8%. But research is persistently carried out with kargapol.

ugochaves

06-06-2023, 11:31 AM

Estonians are amazing, they are very similar to Finns in terms of results and differ from all Europeans, but they have a low Siberia, on a par with Central Europe.

Duke

06-06-2023, 11:37 AM

my guess is that northern Sweden has less population, and i think thats Sami land, or nearby

Cristiano viejo

06-06-2023, 11:41 AM

I wonder why people continue asking this same question years after years, but not how much SSA is found in Portugal or Spain. Okay forget thus question, it is too disturbing.

hahahaahah, what a funny guy you are, Lemmin :pound:

Östsvensk

06-06-2023, 11:52 AM

I tried several Swedes whose data I saw on another forum. A very low percentage of Siberia from 0-1.2%. Tell me, who are the northern Swedes, how many of them are in percentage relation to other Swedes? Is there a G25 result of the northern Swede.? Russians are still unclear why the Russians of the far north appear in most studies. Why not the main Russians. For example, my wife in g25 does not have Siberia at all 0.2-0.4%, she is Western Russian. I have about 1.8%. But research is persistently carried out with kargapol.

Some northern and central Swedes score 1-3% Siberian on GEDMatch. There are also northern and central Swedes who score none like south Swedes. I think the user Aren showed results from Swedes of southern Lappland that had no Siberian.

The Eurogenes K13/K15 spreadsheets have a separate North Swedish group.

Northern Sweden only makes up 10-15% of the country's population.

ugochaves

06-06-2023, 12:17 PM

hahahaahah, what a funny guy you are, Lemmin :pound:The fact is that the Indo-Europeans initially had a Siberian component through their ancestors - eastern hunter-gatherers. Pay attention to the graph, EHG carries a rather large Siberian component - at least 5-10% by eye. In calculators, it is hidden, only an additional late admixture appears. SSA, unfortunately, is absent from the Indo-Europeans initially.
https://i.ibb.co/WDFRH0Q/EHG.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Cristiano viejo

06-06-2023, 01:30 PM

The fact is that the Indo-Europeans initially had a Siberian component through their ancestors - eastern hunter-gatherers. Pay attention to the graph, EHG carries a rather large Siberian component - at least 5-10% by eye. In calculators, it is hidden, only an additional late admixture appears. SSA, unfortunately, is absent from the Indo-Europeans initially.

I am not discussing anything of that. I laughed like a crazy because according Lemminkainen people focus on the Mongol ancestry of N. Europeans but not the enough about the MENA-SSA ancestry in Spaniards/Portuguese... WHICH IS FALSE AS FUCK. This forum has 60989823249 millions of threads about the latter.

rothaer

06-06-2023, 09:38 PM

The fact is that the Indo-Europeans initially had a Siberian component through their ancestors - eastern hunter-gatherers. Pay attention to the graph, EHG carries a rather large Siberian component - at least 5-10% by eye. In calculators, it is hidden, only an additional late admixture appears. SSA, unfortunately, is absent from the Indo-Europeans initially.

True. EHG contains some 40-60% ANE.

I find those statements in this thread that "GEDmatch" does show X% Siberian somewhat arbitrary:

First, GEDmatch contains more than 30 different calculators.
Second, at Eurogens K13 I get 2.04% Siberian. What that means can just be found out by comparing results of people with known ancestry. However, it can not just be taken for face value.

VIK LEWA

06-06-2023, 10:06 PM

Wow Finns must really be Mongols :D

What next? You're going to ask if Spaniards or "Mediterraneans" of Southern and Eastern Europe have "Negroid" DNA.

Because Eupedia says so?

:roll eyes:banging head:hitler::argue::Pruegelknabe::banghead::stop:s milie_stop::smilie_stop::smilie_stop::smilie_stop:

Even our friend, who was managing director of Chanel Spain, wouldn't go that far, and all he said, when I visited him decades ago in his lovely apartment, was that the Spaniards are, quote, "the most Asiatic", meaning among the Europeans.

Cristiano viejo

06-06-2023, 10:14 PM

Even our friend, who was managing director of Chanel Spain, wouldn't go that far, and all he said, when I visited him decades ago in his lovely apartment, was that the Spaniards are, quote, "the most Asiatic", meaning among the Europeans.

Seriously, Gypsy...

Eurafricanid

06-06-2023, 10:39 PM

...
Even our friend, who was managing director of Chanel Spain, wouldn't go that far, and all he said, when I visited him decades ago in his lovely apartment, was that the Spaniards are, quote, "the most Asiatic", meaning among the Europeans.

How are the Spanish the most Asiatics? They're certainly not the most mongoloid, those are the Finns, and some Russians, now, if by "asiatic" he meant MENA, then also false, because the most MENA people in Europe are the Greeks and Southern Italians.

VIK LEWA

06-07-2023, 12:13 AM

The simple answer is no. :no::eusa_naughty::fhmm:

I'm going through the calculators right now to see or to determine exactly what amount or what level of East or South Asian ancestry they have or the amount of East or South Asian genes they carry or they might carry. In the meantime, let's look at the "Mehrgarh Detailed Version" Calculator as one example.

https://ibb.co/2MSqXnQ, https://archive.is/TYlUj/7e8710127a9dc5c60a8be4f54cad0466a30f047d.png

121241

Swedish (Average): East Asia (IA): 0
Swedish (Average): Peninsular India (LM): 0

Ukrainian (Average): East Asia (IA): 0
Ukrainian (Average): Peninsular India (LM): 0

Swedes and Ukrainians don't carry any East Asian genes.

More and more, the only ones that seem to be carrying those genes are the Ukrainian Cossacks, in particular the Kuban Cossacks, and Dnipro Ukrainians are also carrying detectable traces of them. In Sweden, Gotlanders seem to be the ones carrying detectable traces of alien genetic material.

Gotland VA o (Average): East Asia (IA): 8
Gotland VA o (Average): Peninsular India (LM): 0.2

Cossack Kuban (Average): East Asia (IA): 3.4
Cossack Ukrainian (Average) East Asia (IA): 0.2

Ukrainian Dnipro (Average): East Asia (IA): 0.6

VIK LEWA

06-07-2023, 01:20 AM

Calculator: ATLAS Upper Paleolithic for Global Populations

https://i.ibb.co/VWztCr2/screencapture.png, https://archive.is/qfl3r/51a07a68ed952f8ae9fe2cbb9f9f532ec1397dea.png

Modern East Asian
Swedish ► Average: 0
Gotland VA o ► Average: 2.2
Gotland VA ► Average: 0
Ukrainian ► Average: 0
Cossack Ukrainian ► Average: 0
Cossack Kuban ► Average: 0

:cheer_icoon::clap::bounce::bow00001::jump0000:

ugochaves

06-07-2023, 08:00 AM

True. EHG contains some 40-60% ANE.

I find those statements in this thread that "GEDmatch" does show X% Siberian somewhat arbitrary:

First, GEDmatch contains more than 30 different calculators.
Second, at Eurogens K13 I get 2.04% Siberian. What that means can just be found out by comparing results of people with known ancestry. However, it can not just be taken for face value.
I think that your Siberia in gedmatch is a noise that means nothing.

ugochaves

06-07-2023, 08:26 AM

True. EHG contains some 40-60% ANE.
.If you start to delve into antiquity, the question arises how the races of people are connected with these ancient components. For example, the Portuguese and the Balts-the two extreme European populations do not differ much in the components of the Bronze Age, but their appearance is completely different. I think the racial formation of the European peoples went on independently of each other. Western populations having the same composition of farmers and hunters have a different history of racial formation. I hope my English was clear.)

ugochaves

06-07-2023, 08:33 AM

In connection with the above post, the relevance of finding out who is a bigger European and who is a smaller European completely disappears. Every European has his own farmers and his own hunters. The only thing that unites Europe is probably the Indo-European component, but not everything is clear with it. I keep thinking that the Yamnaya culture is not the ancestors of Europeans.

Lemminkäinen

06-07-2023, 08:47 AM

I am not discussing anything of that. I laughed like a crazy because according Lemminkainen people focus on the Mongol ancestry of N. Europeans but not the enough about the MENA-SSA ancestry in Spaniards/Portuguese... WHICH IS FALSE AS FUCK. This forum has 60989823249 millions of threads about the latter.

Sorry that I scratched your surface. I am not racist.

Lemminkäinen

06-07-2023, 08:56 AM

True. EHG contains some 40-60% ANE.

I find those statements in this thread that "GEDmatch" does show X% Siberian somewhat arbitrary:

First, GEDmatch contains more than 30 different calculators.
Second, at Eurogens K13 I get 2.04% Siberian. What that means can just be found out by comparing results of people with known ancestry. However, it can not just be taken for face value.

Only qpAdm style can give absolute values. Then you can compare admixtures between individuals or populations to find out the difference through history.

VIK LEWA

06-08-2023, 12:41 AM

Calculator: Steppe Ancestry Estimator for South Asians

https://i.ibb.co/CmQhsf5/steppe.png, https://archive.is/pR0Zw/7978e048f40b2a531147280eda1ced9a2f9c60b4.png

Swedish ► Average: East Asian: 0
Ukrainian ► Average: East Asian: 0
Cossack Ukrainian ► Average: East Asian: 0

Gotland VA o ► Average: East Asian: 7.4
Cossack Kuban ► Average: East Asian: 3.4
Ukrainian Dnipro ► Average: East Asian: 1.2

:thumb001::ranger:cheer_icoon:

VIK LEWA

06-08-2023, 02:04 AM

The "MyHeritage" Calculator shows an average score of 0.2 and 2 for the Ukrainians and Cossacks, respectively, for the Mongolian component, while the Swedish sample does not show any traces of genes from Mongolian origin. The Ukrainian sample also shows an average score of 1 for the Ashkenazi Jewish component and 0.2 for the Sephardic Jewish-North African component. And the Cossack Ukrainian score for the Mongolian component is five times higher than that of the Cossack Kuban's. Although it should be pointed out that the Kuban Cossacks, according to this calculator, carry Central Asian ancestry, and the others with the exception of Dnipro Ukrainians and Zakarpattia Ukrainians don't.

https://i.ibb.co/MDY7Nm2/mongolian.png, https://archive.is/Aeo4y/c4ec398ef50821b4d1f23f79567618c6fbf48220.png

Sample: Swedish ► Average

Mongolian: 0

Ukrainian ► Average

Mongolian: 0.2

Cossack Ukrainian ► Average

Mongolian: 2

Cossack Kuban ► Average

Central_Asian: 3.6
Mongolian: 0.4
Papuan: 0.4

VIK LEWA

06-11-2023, 11:41 PM