Genghis Khan was R1b-M343?

[Danishmend]

This is interesting.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161622

Members of the Mongol imperial family (designated the Golden family) are buried in a secret necropolis; therefore, none of their burial grounds have been found. In 2004, we first discovered 5 graves belonging to the Golden family in Tavan Tolgoi, Eastern Mongolia. To define the genealogy of the 5 bodies and the kinship among them, SNP and/or STR profiles of mitochondria, autosomes, and Y chromosomes were analyzed. Four of the 5 bodies were determined to carry the mitochondrial DNA haplogroup D4, while the fifth carried haplogroup CZ, indicating that this individual had no kinship with the others. Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup. Thus, their East Asian D4 or CZ matrilineal and West Eurasian R1b-M343 patrilineal origins reveal genealogical admixture between Caucasoid and Mongoloid ethnic groups, despite a Mongoloid physical appearance. In addition, Y chromosomal and autosomal STR profiles revealed that the four D4-carrying bodies bore the relationship of either mother and three sons or four full siblings with almost the same probability. Moreover, the geographical distribution of R1b-M343-carrying modern-day individuals demonstrates that descendants of Tavan Tolgoi bodies today live mainly in Western Eurasia, with a high frequency in the territories of the past Mongol khanates. Here, we propose that Genghis Khan and his family carried Y-haplogroup R1b-M343, which is prevalent in West Eurasia, rather than the Y-haplogroup C3c-M48, which is prevalent in Asia and which is widely accepted to be present in the family members of Genghis Khan. Additionally, Tavan Tolgoi bodies may have been the product of marriages between the lineage of Genghis Khan’s Borjigin clan and the lineage of either the Ongud or Hongirad clans, indicating that these individuals were members of Genghis Khan’s immediate family or his close relatives.

[Pahli]

Would've made more sense with R1a, but R1b? Wow.

[Ülev]

R1b - Mongols of Europe, lol

[gundyr]

Could be, egyptian Kings were R1b too..

[Danishmend]

By the way, R1b-M343 or R haplogroups in general are North Eurasian in origin, not "West Eurasian".

[gültekin]

now a horde of hovanoids will register :laugh:
1 2 3 ....

[Profileid]

I've heard r1b referred to as the "Celtic haplotype" before.

[Proto-Shaman]

I've heard r1b referred to as the "Celtic haplotype" before.
And I've heard its referred to as the "Proto-Turkic Arbin haplogroup".

[Danishmend]

Not this shit again. Haplogroups predate modern language families.

[Longbowman]

Could be, egyptian Kings were R1b too..

No they weren't. Tutankhamun is alleged to be, but most of them were E1b1a.

[Longbowman]

I've heard r1b referred to as the "Celtic haplotype" before.

Most Celtic speakers are R1b, most R1b-carriers are not Celts.

[Profileid]

And I've heard its referred to as the "Proto-Turkic Arbin haplogroup".

The farthest out east there is a significant population is Bashkhortostan
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png

[Wrong]

No they weren't. Tutankhamun is alleged to be, but most of them were E1b1a.
The Egyptian nobility was all R1b:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Genetic_landscape_of_Europe_7000_YBP.png

[Longbowman]

The Egyptian nobility was all R1b:

You've shown this troll map before but you're empirically wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnthropology/comments/2xxdeo/what_are_the_implications_of_ramesses_iii/

[gundyr]

The Egyptian nobility was all R1b:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Genetic_landscape_of_Europe_7000_YBP.png

Seems legit..

[Ülev]

dat skin tone unable to tan - R1b L-21 Islanders :)

out from America, through Asia to West Europe

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA).PNG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Ameri cas

proud 0 blood type donors

and remember about QPR y-dna branches

blood type B is common in Asia:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Map_of_blood_group_b.gif
O is common in Americas
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Map_of_blood_group_o.gif
and A is "northern"
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Map_of_blood_group_a.gif

[Wrong]

I am O-

[Danishmend]

The farthest out east there is a significant population is Bashkhortostan
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png

The present-day frequency distribution of Y chromosome haplogroups means nothing.

[Profileid]

The present-day frequency distribution of Y chromosome haplogroups means nothing.

What to use as a measure then? If r1b came to Europe from the east,it would have higher frequencies in northern Poland and Russia, the route people usually take to get into Europe.

[Rethel]

This is interesting.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161622

Members of the Mongol imperial family (designated the Golden family) are buried in a secret necropolis; therefore, none of their burial grounds have been found. In 2004, we first discovered 5 graves belonging to the Golden family in Tavan Tolgoi, Eastern Mongolia. To define the genealogy of the 5 bodies and the kinship among
them, SNP and/or STR profiles of mitochondria, autosomes, and Y chromosomes
were analyzed. Four of the 5 bodies were determined to carry the mitochondrial DNA
haplogroup D4, while the fifth carried haplogroup CZ, indicating that this individual had no kinship with the others. Meanwhile, Y-SNP and Y-STR profiles indicate that the males examined belonged to the R1b-M343 haplogroup. Thus, their East Asian D4 or CZ matrilineal and West Eurasian R1b-M343 patrilineal origins reveal genealogical admixture between Caucasoid and Mongoloid ethnic groups, despite a Mongoloid physical appearance. In addition, Y chromosomal and autosomal STR profiles revealed that the four D4-carrying bodies bore the relationship of either mother and three sons or four full siblings with almost the same probability. Moreover, the geographical distribution of R1b-M343-carrying modern-day individuals demonstrates that descendants of Tavan Tolgoi bodies today live mainly in Western Eurasia, with a high frequency in the territories of the past Mongol khanates. Here, we propose that Genghis Khan and his family carried Y-haplogroup R1b-M343, which is prevalent in West Eurasia, rather than the Y-haplogroup C3c-M48, which is prevalent in Asia and which is widely accepted to be present in the family members of Genghis Khan. Additionally, Tavan Tolgoi bodies may have been the product of marriages between the lineage of Genghis Khan’s Borjigin clan and the lineage of either the Ongud or Hongirad clans, indicating that these individuals were members of Genghis Khan’s immediate family or his close relatives.


It is not shocking for me at all.
Family of Temujin was described as red haired.
Temujin himself was puzzled when one of his
grandsons was black haired. His tribe had to
have high european admixture, not only autosomal
via women but also could have IE lineages.

Mongolia was a palce, where IEs where bordered with mongoloids, so nothing
strange if some of them mixed together. Redhairness was mostly carried rather
by R1b folks than R1a, so R1b hg of Gengis would be very accurate. As this map
shows http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png tribes with high
amount of R1b are in deep Asia too, also in south Syberia, where tribe of Temujin
was originaly comming from. In one mongolian film about Temujin, Yesügey, his
father is portraied as a Ginger. R1b has much more sense to me, than C.

62020
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62020&d=1473950238

[Wrong]

It is not shocking for me at all.
Family of Temujin was described as red haired.
Temujin himself was puzzled when one of his
grandsons was black haired. His tribe had to
have high european admixture, not only autosomal
via women but also could have IE lineages.

Mongolia was a palce, where IEs where bordered with mongoloids, so nothing strange if some of them
mixed together. Redhairness was mostly carries by R1b folks, than R1a, so Rab hg of Gengis would be
very accurate. As this map shows http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png
tribes with high amount of R1b are in deep Asia too, also in south Syberia, where tribe of Temujin was
originaly comming from. In one film about Temujin his father Yesügey is portraied as a Ginger.

62020


Sounds like the Tarim mummies who were less mongoloid back than. But it also sounds like a fairytale only a tiny Rethelite like you would cook up.

[Rethel]

You've shown this troll map before but you're empirically wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnthropology/comments/2xxdeo/what_are_the_implications_of_ramesses_iii/

R3 was not related to R2 and S1.
These are two totally different dynasties.

[Rethel]

No they weren't. Tutankhamun is alleged to be,

And his dynasty, and probably two earlier.


but most of them were E1b1a.

Not most, but one.

[Danishmend]

What to use as a measure then? If r1b came to Europe from the east,it would have higher frequencies in northern Poland and Russia, the route people usually take to get into Europe.

R1b definitely came from the east, R1b's present-day frequency can be misleading. The greatest genetic diversity of R1b haplogroup was found in West Asia for example, most basal clades were also found there. Its ultimate origin is most likely in North Eurasia though.

[Rethel]

The greatest genetic diversity of R1b haplogroup was found in West Asia for example, most basal clades were also found there.

In which region?

[Wrong]

R1b definitely came from the east, R1b's present-day frequency can be misleading. The greatest genetic diversity of R1b haplogroup was found in West Asia for example, most basal clades were also found there. It's ultimate origin is most likely in North Eurasia though.
Agreed. Same can be said about most if not all haplos.

[Danishmend]

It is not shocking for me at all.
Family of Temujin was described as red haired.
Temujin himself was puzzled when one of his
grandsons was black haired. His tribe had to
have high european admixture, not only autosomal
via women but also could have IE lineages.

Mongolia was a palce, where IEs where bordered with mongoloids, so nothing
strange if some of them mixed together. Redhairness was mostly carried rather
by R1b folks than R1a, so R1b hg of Gengis would be very accurate. As this map
shows http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png tribes with high
amount of R1b are in deep Asia too, also in south Syberia, where tribe of Temujin
was originaly comming from. In one mongolian film about Temujin, Yesügey, his
father is portraied as a Ginger. R1b has much more sense to me, than C.

62020
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62020&d=1473950238


He didn't have European ancestry, his haplogroup (not yet certain) is Eurasian in origin. Stop fantasizing already.

[Wrong]

Facts like this do not surprise me anymore. Ancient Iberia was full of C1 for example, while Ancient Berbers had full R1b

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Genetic_landscape_of_Europe_7000_YBP.png

[Petalpusher]

like in Yamnaya, yet another case where the guys in charge are R1b. R1a...well they were trying to socialize with the horses i guess.

[Grab the Gauge]

R1b is the rape baby haplogroup. If you are R1b you are a mutant half-Mongoloid Hapa Haole rape baby mischling Mestizo.

[gundyr]

R1b is the rape baby haplogroup. If you are R1b you are a mutant half-Mongoloid Hapa Haole rape baby mischling Mestizo.

What is a good haplogroup then, sir?

[Rethel]

He didn't have European ancestry, his haplogroup (not yet certain) is Eurasian in origin. Stop fantasizing already.

:picard2:

I didn't claim that he is from Europe, man... :picard1:
M343 it is general R1b. Whites in Asia in antiqiuty it is a known
well fact. In Jungaria, in Gansu, in southern Syberia and partialy
in Mongolia. Couple of Chinese historical figures was from these
whites, and until this day, on the mongolian Stepp some people
are born with obvious white influence. And it is not albinism.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/f52396a4b8e33c164acab8736d3c5a37/tumblr_mvvi0hShXC1qifd6lo1_1280.jpg

[gundyr]

R1b is the rape baby haplogroup. If you are R1b you are a mutant half-Mongoloid Hapa Haole rape baby mischling Mestizo.

Whats a good haplogroup to have then, sir?

[gundyr]

R1b is the rape baby haplogroup. If you are R1b you are a mutant half-Mongoloid Hapa Haole rape baby mischling Mestizo.

whats a Good haplogroup to have then?

[Rethel]

He didn't have European ancestry, his haplogroup (not yet certain) is Eurasian in origin. Stop fantasizing already.

:picard2:

I didn't claim that he is from Europe, man... :picard1:
M343 it is general R1b. Whites in Asia in antiqiuty it is a known
well fact. In Jungaria, in Gansu, in southern Syberia and partialy
in Mongolia. Couple of Chinese historical figures was from these
whites, and until this day, on the mongolian Stepp some people
are born with obvious white influence. And it is not albinism.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/f52396a4b8e33c164acab8736d3c5a37/tumblr_mvvi0hShXC1qifd6lo1_1280.jpg

[Wrong]

Saxon R1b metal band knew it all in the 80s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBpcbzaDF5I

[Grab the Gauge]

It is not shocking for me at all.
Family of Temujin was described as red haired.
Temujin himself was puzzled when one of his
grandsons was black haired. His tribe had to
have high european admixture, not only autosomal
via women but also could have IE lineages.

Mongolia was a palce, where IEs where bordered with mongoloids, so nothing
strange if some of them mixed together. Redhairness was mostly carried rather
by R1b folks than R1a, so R1b hg of Gengis would be very accurate. As this map
shows http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_R1b_World.png tribes with high
amount of R1b are in deep Asia too, also in south Syberia, where tribe of Temujin
was originaly comming from. In one mongolian film about Temujin, Yesügey, his
father is portraied as a Ginger. R1b has much more sense to me, than C.

62020
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62020&d=1473950238

LOL!!! COPING POST!

The mummies had red hair because of ocre (iron oxide) stains in the tomb.

R1b has nothing to do with red hair. R1b wasn't mixed. Khan wasn't mixed. He didn't look Eurasian. The IndoEuropeans didn't look Eurasian. They looked like this:


http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/3/1/9/5034913.jpg

THE GAME'S OVER BOYS!!!! Your sole connection to R1b is that these Mongoloids raped your whore ass ancestors. All those years you spent idolizing the R1's.... Only to find out they were Mongoloids.

https://lolcow.farm/b/src/1456769361510.jpg

[Wrong]

:picard2:

I didn't claim that he is from Europe, man... :picard1:
M343 it is general R1b. Whites in Asia in antiqiuty it is a known
well fact. In Jungaria, in Gansu, in southern Syberia and partialy
in Mongolia. Couple of Chinese historical figures was from these
whites, and until this day, on the mongolian Stepp some people
are born with obvious white influence. And it is not albinism.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/f52396a4b8e33c164acab8736d3c5a37/tumblr_mvvi0hShXC1qifd6lo1_1280.jpg

This blond hair type in northasia is Finic N.

[Grab the Gauge]

:picard2:

I didn't claim that he is from Europe, man... :picard1:
M343 it is general R1b. Whites in Asia in antiqiuty it is a known
well fact. In Jungaria, in Gansu, in southern Syberia and partialy
in Mongolia. Couple of Chinese historical figures was from these
whites, and until this day, on the mongolian Stepp some people
are born with obvious white influence. And it is not albinism.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/f52396a4b8e33c164acab8736d3c5a37/tumblr_mvvi0hShXC1qifd6lo1_1280.jpg

LOL, rape baby. Don't make me bring ButlerKing up in here....

[Ülev]

https://youtu.be/7i9ozy739c8

[Danishmend]

In which region?

I don't know, but ~24,000-year old Mal'ta boy had basal R (R*).

http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/SCIENCE/Siberian-Venuses/inside_map_gv.jpg

[zhaoyun]

Genghis Khan was a broad, flat faced, slit eyed Mongolian. All the records indicate this. Coping mechanism trying to paint Genghis as Euro. LOL

[Rethel]

This blond hair type in northasia is Finic N.

Certainly not.

[Rethel]

I don't know, but ~24,000-year old Mal'ta boy had basal R (R*).

So, why do you claim something, if you dont know.

[Ülev]

Genghis Khan had 10 european women every night (if not more) so his descendants are less flat faced, lol

[zhaoyun]

On the left is Genghis, though the portrait was commissioned 50 years after his death, if he and his family looked Euro, why would they paint him as such? On the right is his grandson Kublai, whose portrait was completed during his reign as he ruled from Beijing.

So Euro.

http://people.chinesecio.com/en/image/attachement/jpg/site3/20100415/0023ae9bcf230d31157a52.jpg

[Rethel]

All the records indicate this.

It is obvious, you didn't read any one of them.

And as case of this girl shows, face can be mongolian, but pigmentation not.

[Danishmend]

So, why do you claim something, if you dont know.

I was talking about its ultimate origin, which is North Eurasian.

[Wrong]

Certainly not.
Yakuts who have some blond asians have 90%+ of N.

No Europoid influence. This blond type is some other allele/mutation.

[Rethel]

On the left is Genghis, though the portrait was commissioned 50 years after his death, if he and his family looked Euro, why would they paint him as such? On the right is his grandson Kublai, whose portrait was completed during his reign as he ruled from Beijing.

Noone said Temujin was 100% european. It would be hard in amurian region.

50 years after - to late.
Grandson? :picard2:

[Petalpusher]

So, why do you claim something, if you dont know.

It comes from there, it's the oldest R1 we have and R1b appears in the area later with Afontova Gora. But even Mal'ta was ~70% similar to present day West Eurasians.

[zhaoyun]

It is obvious, you didn't read any one of them.

And as case of this girl shows, face can be mongolian, but pigmentation not.

Even if his hair was slightly red, he was still very much Mongol by phenotype. I've met plenty of Kazakhs in NW China like this.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/8c/5d/ee8c5d8061c9110fe1546c7c4da99bf5.jpg

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/foust%20dec1%20p.jpg

Kublai Khan was not red haired though.

[Rethel]

Yakuts who have some blond asians have 90% of N.

And have some russian admixture too... 5-10%... enaugh to have "some blond asians".

[Wrong]

And have some russian admixture too... 5-10%... enaugh to have "some blond asians".
Russians are not light blond like them. Mostly dirty blond or brown haired. Real light blond there is Finic.

[Ülev]

And have some russian admixture too... 5-10%... enaugh to have "some blond asians".

as I remember you have light hair :D

[Voskos]

It wouldn't surprise me. R1b is proto-Siberian.

[Wrong]

Y-DNA breakdown proto origin:

I & J = Proto-Caucasus
G = Proto-Caucasus
R1 = Proto-Siberian
N = Proto-Siberian
Q = Proto-Hunic
C = Proto-Iberian
E & D= Proto-West Eurasian
T = Proto-Somali
H = Proto-Indian

[gundyr]

Y-DNA breakdown proto origin:

I & J = Proto-Caucasus
G = Proto-Caucasus
R1 = Proto-Siberian
N = Proto-Siberian
Q = Proto-Hunic
C = Proto-Iberian
E & D= Proto-West Eurasian
T = Proto-Somali
H = Proto-Indian

Haha! This was funny to me.

[Voskos]

Y-DNA breakdown proto origin:

I & J = Proto-Caucasus
G = Proto-Caucasus
R1 = Proto-Siberian
N = Proto-Siberian
Q = Proto-Hunic
C = Proto-Iberian
E & D= Proto-West Eurasian
T = Proto-Somali
H = Proto-Indian

you are an arab and 30-50 percent of albania is somali. check ftdna haplogroup migration map.

[Wrong]

Haha! This was funny to me.
Funny but is right. :D

[gundyr]

Hmmm.. maybe..

[Wrong]

Japanese D is actually Proto-West Eurasian in origin with their haplogroup D who split with E ages ago.
Some reports say it was split with E in NORTH Eurasia!

[Turkminator]

Russians are not light blond like them. Mostly dirty blond or brown haired. Real light blond there is Finic.

The Turkic peoples are the original people, where the blonde gene has its highest concentration.

[Proto-Shaman]

And have some russian admixture too... 5-10%... enaugh to have "some blond asians".

blonde Australian Aborigines also Indo-European? :swl

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Weltkarte-Haarfarben.png

[Wrong]

The Turkic peoples are the original people, where the blonde gene has its highest concentration.
Sorry to say it man, but you are 100% correct.

[Danishmend]

The Turkic peoples are the original people, where the blonde gene has its highest concentration.

Turkic-speaking peoples are predominantly dark-haired, except for Chuvash and maybe Volga Tatars.

You can find the highest concentration of blondes in Finland.

[Wrong]

Rethel looking up to his Turkic overlord

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/14194504_1692554604401615_1732810283_n.jpg?oh=cf45 f68b7b9277c3d26e832bd1f78e43&oe=57DCD1F6

[Danaan]

The Turkic peoples are the original people, where the blonde gene has its highest concentration.

It's a defect.

[Hevo]

Plot twist, R1b was brought by the Mongols to Europe.:laugh:


Similarly, the high frequency of R1b-M343 in geographic regions associated with the past Mongol khanates including the Golden Horde (from Ural Mountain to Western Siberia, which includes Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan), Ilkhanate (Iran and neighboring territories including Armenia, Turkey, Georgia, Afghanistan, Syria, and Tajikistan), and Chagatai Khanate (from the Aral sea to the Altai mountain, including Pakistan (Hazara), Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, India, and China), strongly suggest a close association between the Y haplotype R1b-M343 and the past Mongol Empire.

[Danishmend]

Similarly, the high frequency of R1b-M343 in geographic regions associated with the past Mongol khanates including the Golden Horde (from Ural Mountain to Western Siberia, which includes Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan), Ilkhanate (Iran and neighboring territories including Armenia, Turkey, Georgia, Afghanistan, Syria, and Tajikistan), and Chagatai Khanate (from the Aral sea to the Altai mountain, including Pakistan (Hazara), Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, India, and China), strongly suggest a close association between the Y haplotype R1b-M343 and the past Mongol Empire.


Whoever wrote this is a fucking moron.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Japanese D is actually Proto-West Eurasian in origin with their haplogroup D who split with E ages ago.
Some reports say it was split with E in NORTH Eurasia!



Ydna D have nothing to do with West Eurasians, in Japan this haplgoroup is associated with Australoid Jomon people(Ainu)

E is 100% East African and D is 100% Australoid

[Wrong]

Ydna D have nothing to do with West Eurasians, in Japan this haplgoroup is associated with Australoid Jomon people(Ainu)

E is 100% East African and D is 100% Australoid
Nope. Both have the same origin since split.

[Voskos]

Nope. Both have the same origin since split, idiotic moronic fool.

doesn't matter where it originated. It still arrived to you through somalia.




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/E1b1bRoute.png


The origins of E-M215 were dated by Cruciani in 2007 to about 22,400 years ago in the Horn of Africa.[7][Note 1] E-M35 was dated by Batini in 2015 to between 15,400 and 20,500 years ago.[8] In June 2015, Trombetta et al. reported a previously unappreciated large difference in the age between haplogroup E-M215 (38.6 kya; 95% CI 31.4-45.9 kya) and its sub-haplogroup E-M35 (25.0 kya; 95% CI 20.0-30.0 kya).[9]
The ancient dispersals of the major E-M35 lineages. The map shows the supposed earliest movements of E-M215 lineages as described in the most recent articles.[2][7][10][11]

All major sub-branches of E-M35 are thought to have originated in the same general area as the parent clade: in North Africa, the Horn of Africa, or nearby areas of the Near East. Some branches of E-M35 are assumed to have left Africa thousands of years ago, whereas others may have arrived from the Near East. For example, Underhill (2002) associates the spread have the haplogroup with the Neolithic Revolution, believing that the structure and regional pattern of E-M35 subclades potentially give "reagents with which to infer specific episodes of population histories associated with the Neolithic agricultural expansion". Battaglia et al. (2007) also estimate that E-M78 (called E1b1b1a1 in that paper) has been in Europe longer than 10,000 years. Accordingly, human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dating from approximately 7,000 years ago were shown to be in this haplogroup.[12] Two more E-M78 have been found in the Neolitich Sopot and Lengyel cultures too.[13]

[Danaan]

doesn't matter where it originated. It still arrived to you through somalia.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/E1b1bRoute.png

That may be correct but can't be proven. DE originated likely in Asia, so haplogroup E may have originated anywhere before entering Africa. East Africa is also possible.

If it originated in Levant it may have come from there in Europe.

Similar things can be said about R1a. Some have said that it originated in North Eurasia, others in Central Asia or even South Asia.

The association of 'Neolithic agricultural expansion' with E-M35, E-M78 has been proven wrong so far or mostly wrong, at least the simplistic models are wrong.

[Voskos]

That may be correct but can't be proven. DE originated likely in Asia, so haplogroup E may have originated anywhere before entering Africa. East Africa is also possible.

If it originated in Levant it may have come from there in Europe.

Similar things can be said about R1a. Some have said that it originated in North Eurasia, others in Central Asia or even South Asia.

The association of 'Neolithic agricultural expansion' with E-M35, E-M78 has been proven wrong so far or mostly wrong, at least the simplistic models are wrong.

again, i'm not talking about its place of origin. but so far all the scientific evidence points to a diffusion of e-v13 through africa/ the near east.


E-M78, like its parent clade E-V68, is thought to have an African origin. Based on genetic STR variance data, Cruciani et al. (2007) suggests that this subclade originated in "Northeastern Africa", which in the study refers specifically to the region of Egypt and Libya.


They concluded that the region of Egypt was the likely place of origin of E-M78 based on "the peripheral geographic distribution of the most derived subhaplogroups with respect to northeastern Africa, as well as the results of quantitative analysis of UEP and microsatellite diversity".

[Longbowman]

Let's say E is Somalian. So?

[poiuytrewq0987]

One of the theories I read suggested that a European-looking population migrated eastwards to Asia after the ice age. They, however, didn't successfully preserve their lineage and mixed with the Asian populations. So, that could be one of the reasonable explanations for why Genghis carries a European haplogroup. Imagine that, the great scourge of Europe was an Asianized (however very long ago) European... yikes.

[Bell Beaker]

Facts like this do not surprise me anymore. Ancient Iberia was full of C1 for example, while Ancient Berbers had full R1b

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Genetic_landscape_of_Europe_7000_YBP.png

Modern Iberians = Ancient Berbers

Modern Berbers = Ancient Iberians

[poiuytrewq0987]

Let's say E is Somalian. So?

I still wonder how E-V13 formed at all, and why we don't look African nor carry much, if at all African autosomal markers... :P Could be that the original E populations were Caucasoid in appearance, or when we crossed the Mediterranean, we became lily white people.

[Bell Beaker]

I still wonder how E-V13 formed at all, and why we don't look African nor carry much, if at all African autosomal markers... :P Could be that the original E populations were Caucasoid in appearance, or when we crossed the Mediterranean, we became lily white people.

Nice Boobs.

[johen]

One of the theories I read suggested that a European-looking population migrated eastwards to Asia after the ice age. They, however, didn't successfully preserve their lineage and mixed with the Asian populations. So, that could be one of the reasonable explanations for why Genghis carries a European haplogroup. Imagine that, the great scourge of Europe was an Asianized (however very long ago) European... yikes.

The opposite. The following maps explain why R appeared in Europe:
The Emergence of Pressure Blade Making: From Origin to Modern Experimentation, edited by Pierre M. Desrosiers (2012)
http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11515&d=1462270387

https://s15.postimg.io/fjk7w1k6z/Capture1.png

[Hevo]

Let's say E is Somalian. So?

Pack your bags and gtfo to Somalia. I will move back to Siberia, deal?

[Danaan]

again, i'm not talking about its place of origin. but so far all the scientific evidence points to a diffusion of e-v13 through africa/ the near east.

Btw, I don't have a problem with what they say. It's just that I don't believe that their method proves it. Besides, they say that 'the origin of E-V13 outside the region (ie northeastern Africa) is likely'.

So, it's wrong to say 'E-V13 came to Albania (or Greece) from Somalia'. It's possible that E-M78 came to Europe through the Levant and it's also possible that it came to Albania or Greece through the Balkans (from the north in general, we have E-M78 samples from Neolithic Hungary). I don't say that's the case.

[Voskos]

Btw, I don't have a problem with what they say. It's just that I don't believe that their method proves it. Besides, they say that 'the origin of E-V13 outside the region (ie northeastern Africa) is likely'.

So, it's wrong to say 'E-V13 came to Albania (or Greece) from Somalia'. It's possible that E-M78 came to Europe through the Levant and it's also possible that it came to Albania or Greece through the Balkans (from the north in general, we have E-M78 samples from Neolithic Hungary). I don't say that's the case.

E-M78 originated in Egypt or Libya according to the STR variance method. Whether it came through the Levant or other routes is just a detail.

[Danaan]

E-M78 originated in Egypt or Libya according to the STR variance method. Whether it came through the Levant or other routes is just a detail.

Whatever, it's irrelevant.

[Longbowman]

Pack your bags and gtfo to Somalia. I will move back to Siberia, deal?

Leaving Europe to the refugees. I see how it is, good goy.

[Danaan]

Somali-Dravidian brothers, we have to unite to fight the R1 Mongols.

[Petalpusher]

Fuck where should we rape babies go back in the end, Siberia or Turkey?

[Ülev]

those R1b Mongols detain all of you you in this thread
1:0 for them, Mongol Stronk!

[Longbowman]

2 27 year olds having this talk? Don't you have jobs?

T has been in Europe since the early Neolithic, whole villages of T have been found in Germany from the pre-Indo-European period.

Anyway thread cleared, no one cares how high-T the Gypsies are.

[Anglojew]

It fits with his physical disruption of being ginger

[Wrong]

It fits with his physical disruption of being ginger
Your Q is strongly related to R.

[Dick]

I'D PUT HIM ON MY R1 HIT LIST BUT HE ALREADY DED

[Wrong]

http://i.imgur.com/wNUwyli.jpg
http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/a5deDYg_700b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wNUwyli.jpg

[gundyr]

Modern Iberians = Ancient Berbers

Modern Berbers = Ancient Iberians

Lol Iberians arent Berbers. They are European. Romance.

[Danishmend]

Look at Davidski's comments.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.tr/2016/09/r1a-and-r1b-from-early-mongolian-tomb.html


"
You need to rise above your mental problems.

The spread of warrior elites from the Eastern European steppes during the Bronze Age had a profound impact on many cultures way down the line, both in Europe and Asia.

This is interesting and important and needs to be studied closely. And it will, so get used to it.

It's still interesting that the ruling and warrior classes that moved from Europe to the Altai during the Bronze Age may have still been in place there during the early Mongol period.
"



"Warrior elites from the Eastern European steppes" hahaha. For years this fucking idiot had portrayed Proto-Indo-Europeans as some kind of modern Slavic/Eastern European-like population genetically, and he was quite successful to be honest. Everyone thought so until Yamnaya turned out to be utterly unique ancient population with strong Ancient North Eurasian-shift (ANE-EHG). Yamnaya had no close resemblance to any modern population. :cry2 He was also disappointed with Scythian_IA's results and told people (he has some slaves on his blog's comments section) not to run Scythian_IA sample on gedmatch because of "calculator affect" and shit. LOL

Now he wants us to believe that what is now Mongolia was dominated by "Polish-like" blonde-blue eyed warrior elite from Eastern Europe and its inferior mongoloid population was enslaved, Genghis Khan and his clan was a product of this mass-rape. I imagine East Europeans as something like when reading his posts ---> http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/l.aspx?k=106663063

But the truth is Eastern Europe was "conquered" by "ANE warrior elite" that came from the east and formed EHG component. And it was mainly this non-European/Eastern component that gave rise to Proto-Indo-Europeans. This guy's obsession with steppe warriors always cracks me up. It was the Huns and Avars who introduced stirrups (which is a sine qua non for any horseman/steppe warrior) to Europe, prior to that the entire continent had no legit horsemen, except for Scythian/Sarmatian outliers of Ponto-Caspian steppe.


Haplogroup R is not Eastern European. Maybe in his fantasy world where Poles are steppe elite warrior class (but somehow these steppe warrior elite had no idea about fucking stirrups until the Huns and Avars trampled over them).

[Crn Volk]

All makes sense now

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2a16e4e43e3010d689741cd9179188e8-c?convert_to_webp=true

[dddcc]

Look at Davidski's comments.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.tr/2016/09/r1a-and-r1b-from-early-mongolian-tomb.html


"
You need to rise above your mental problems.

The spread of warrior elites from the Eastern European steppes during the Bronze Age had a profound impact on many cultures way down the line, both in Europe and Asia.

This is interesting and important and needs to be studied closely. And it will, so get used to it.

It's still interesting that the ruling and warrior classes that moved from Europe to the Altai during the Bronze Age may have still been in place there during the early Mongol period.
"



"Warrior elites from the Eastern European steppes" hahaha. For years this fucking idiot had portrayed Proto-Indo-Europeans as some kind of modern Slavic/Eastern European-like population genetically, and he was quite successful to be honest. Everyone thought so until Yamnaya turned out to be utterly unique ancient population with strong Ancient North Eurasian-shift (ANE-EHG). Yamnaya had no close resemblance to any modern population. :cry2 He was also disappointed with Scythian_IA's results and told people (he has some slaves on his blog's comments section) not to run Scythian_IA sample on gedmatch because of "calculator affect" and shit. LOL

Now he wants us to believe that what is now Mongolia was dominated by "Polish-like" blonde-blue eyed warrior elite from Eastern Europe and its inferior mongoloid population was enslaved, Genghis Khan and his clan was a product of this mass-rape. I imagine East Europeans as something like when reading his posts ---> http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/l.aspx?k=106663063

But the truth is Eastern Europe was "conquered" by "ANE warrior elite" that came from the east and formed EHG component. And it was mainly this non-European/Eastern component that gave rise to Proto-Indo-Europeans. This guy's obsession with steppe warriors always cracks me up. It was the Huns and Avars who introduced stirrups (which is a sine qua non for any horseman/steppe warrior) to Europe, prior to that the entire continent had no legit horsemen, except for Scythian/Sarmatian outliers of Ponto-Caspian steppe.


Haplogroup R is not Eastern European. Maybe in his fantasy world where Poles are steppe elite warrior class (but somehow these steppe warrior elite had no idea about fucking stirrups until the Huns and Avars trampled over them).

May you post your comments in Davidsky blog so we could learn about his counterarguments to your hypothesis.

[Dick]

Haplogroup R is not Eastern European. Maybe in his fantasy world where Poles are steppe elite warrior class (but somehow these steppe warrior elite had no idea about fucking stirrups until the Huns and Avars trampled over them).

DAVIDSKI IS A POLLOCK BIMBO LIKE R1ETHEL AND HIS EUROGENES CALC SUCKS R1 STEPPE BALLS. DAVIDSKI IS ADDED TO MY R1 HIT LIST.

[Anglojew]

Your Q is strongly related to R.

Yes, obviously vastly superior than the R masses though.

[Danishmend]

May you post your comments in Davidsky blog so we could learn about his counterarguments to your hypothesis.

Already did, he deletes my comments.

[Wrong]

Seems like Negro-Polerbies(Polaks) and Incel-Saxons(Germanics) propagandists are getting destroyed by new discoveries.


R1b-L23 coincides strongly with empire founder tribal people who've founded the empires like Hittie empire(Ancient Anatolian), Roman Empire(Etruscan), Macedonian empire(Mycaenean), Trojan(Dorian) Cumania(Turkic) and perhaps the Hannibal Barca's empire(Phoenician)

In Albania and some other parts of the Balkan, the spread of J2b coincides with R1b-L23, it may have been a smaller haplogroup ragtagging with R1b-L23 carriers.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-L23.gif
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-J2b.gif

[Rethel]

I was talking about its ultimate origin, which is North Eurasian.

It is not known yet.
One boy, who had no offspring and was himself a hybrid, is not ultimate proof.
Original tribe could live everywhere between Washington and Lisboa, but more
probably it was in triangle Karelia-Urartu-Altay.

[Rethel]

But even Mal'ta was ~70% similar to present day West Eurasians.

He was not similar, but he has 70%.
He was something between Potentia
and CrazyDaisy with amerindian grandma.

[Rethel]

Even if his hair was slightly red, he was still very much Mongol by phenotype. I've met plenty of Kazakhs in NW China like this.
Kublai Khan was not red haired though.

You are so much yellowcentrist that
you refuse to understand the point.
Nevermind.

[Rethel]

whole villages of T have been found in Germany from the pre-Indo-European period.

Remember, what did you write here - especially these bolded parts. :)

[Longbowman]

Remember, what did you write here - especially these bolded parts. :)

?

[Rethel]

Your Q is strongly related to R.

Like E to D...:picard2:

[Longbowman]

Like E to D...:picard2:

Much closer really. Like E1b1b1c to E1b1b1a.

[Rethel]

?

Whole villiges of T suggest particlanish system.
Pre - means, T-men are not Indoeuropeans.

[Azad Beg]

IE supremacists are in PANIC mode.

[Ülev]

Whole villiges of T suggest particlanish system.
Pre - means, T-men are not Indoeuropeans.

yes, T were European but not Indian

[Rethel]

Much closer really. Like E1b1b1c to E1b1b1a.

Even if it would be twinbrothers,
it doesn't matter, becaue each
one of them has his own totally
different language plus place of
living, customs, even race - two
totally different identity groups.
Like Edomites and Israelites (in
small sense of course. R and Q
have much bigger differences).

[Longbowman]

Whole villiges of T suggest particlanish system.

There were also 'whole villages' of MTDNA u5. Does that make them matrilineal clans? arsehat.


Pre - means, T-men are not Indoeuropeans.

Yes obviously. So?

[Longbowman]

Even if it would be twinbrothers,
it doesn't matter, becaue each
one of them has his own totally
different language plus place of
living, customs, even race - two
totally different identity groups.
Like Edomites and Israelites.

Edomites and Israelites spoke the same language, were kinfolk, and were eventually absorbed by one another (under Herod), please read the Bible.

Either way you are now saying that identity is more important than genetics! :eek: sure you don't want to step down on this one, bro?

[Danaan]

Even if it would be twinbrothers,
it doesn't matter, becaue each
one of them has his own totally
different language plus place of
living, customs, even race - two
totally different identity groups.
Like Edomites and Israelites (in
small sense of course. R and Q
have much bigger differences).

What is the language of haplogroup Q?

[Rethel]

There were also 'whole villages' of MTDNA u5. Does that make them matrilineal clans? arsehat.

Doubtfull, but it would be interesting to know. Maybe...
I do not refuse existing of matrinileality in 100%, because
it happend sometimes, but, was not sufficient, so had to
be gone. It is very old thesis, that european society before
Indoeuropeans was matrisomething. It is of course to much
ideologocally overestimated, but in some small tribes could
happened, why not. Basques still have some traces BUT as
is showing history, logic, and spreading of OE hgs, this kind
of social organization wasn't original, and could be eventually
existing on previous patry-background.

It is like all four wifes of Jacob would formed four tribes,
but all members of Israel would be only patrydescendants
of Jacob. Then all would have the same Y hg, but would be
in four (or more if there would be additional wifes) matritribes.

Something like that is offen among so called "matry" societies, which
contain today less than 0,5% of humankind, and are not matry pure.


Yes obviously. So?

So remember about this. Thats all. :)

[Rethel]

What is the language of haplogroup Q?

All amerindian laguages with yenisean.

If 70 people gave an origin to all Amerindians,
then obviously, they had speak one language
which later developed all present day dialects.

[Longbowman]

I do not refuse existing of matrinileality in 100%

Cool.


So remember about this. Thats all. :)

Literally everyone knows T is not Proto-Indo-European.

[Rethel]

Edomites and Israelites spoke the same language, were kinfolk, and were eventually absorbed by one another (under Herod), please read the Bible.

:picard2:

So inteligent, but cant understand a very simple
example with even additional objections for idiots...


Either way you are now saying that identity is more important than genetics! :eek: sure you don't want to step down on this one, bro?

It is obvious, that evry patryclan has
different identity. This is the whole point!

Children of your uncle have different identity than you
and your brothers. A little different, but still you are
members of the same one Longbowman's happy family.

In the case of Indoeuropeans and Redskins these two
groups have two different identities, divided by name,
language, race, culture. The fundamental difference
is in hg of course (this is the gauge of right group or
wrong one) but rest in historical perspective shows
have we to do with two different groups of people,
or maybe with the same? This is why R1a and R1b
are a members of one common group, BUT Q NOT.

This is why E doesn't make a one tribal group, but
some subclades are making their own separated
tribal entities - like different E for Bantu, Berbers
and rest of Hamites, and maybe couple smaller.

[Rethel]

Literally everyone knows T is not Proto-Indo-European.

I meant in larger sense - that there are hgs, which cariers are not IEs - some claim to be... some are telling that race matter or autosomal.. or something like that...

[Longbowman]

I meant in larger sense - that there are hgs, which cariers are not IEs - some claim to be... some are telling that race matter or autosomal.. or something like that...

I did not imply that, rather, I said that pre-Indo-European Europe had much T, proving it is not a 'Gypsy haplogroup' (the 'Gypsy haplogroup' would be H, anyway).

[Rethel]

I did not imply that, rather, I said that pre-Indo-European Europe had much T, proving it is not a 'Gypsy haplogroup' (the 'Gypsy haplogroup' would be H, anyway).

But I didn't refer to your actual comment in this thread,
but to general picture of yours or other's views... :)

[Pahli]

EJ master race, now move on.

[Rethel]

EJ master race, now move on.

GEJTINQ :p

[Pahli]

GEJTINQ :p

N is your Balto-Slavic Baltic cousins :rolleyes:

[Rethel]

N is your Balto-Slavic Baltic cousins :rolleyes:

No, N are not our cousins...

[Wrong]

Why are you just spamming this thread? Retards.

[Pahli]

No, N are not our cousins...

Balts are your cousins? No? Wow. Balto-Slavs really hate each other I guess.

[Danaan]

I did not imply that, rather, I said that pre-Indo-European Europe had much T, proving it is not a 'Gypsy haplogroup' (the 'Gypsy haplogroup' would be H, anyway).

Only H1 would be Gypsy.

H2 was found in Neolithic Iberia and in Linear Pottery culture.

Some subclades of haplogroup L probably existed in Europe too.

[Rethel]

Balts are your cousins? No? Wow. Balto-Slavs really hate each other I guess.

Where I wrote: "Balts are not our cousins"??? :picard2:

[Danaan]

Apparently there were red-haired, blue-eyed L1a people in Armenia 6161 ybp, while the Yamnayans were dark haired and dark eyed.

Areni-1 Cave L1a1
ID AR1/44 I1634
Y DNA L1a
Population Chalcolithic (Horizon III)
Culture Early Late Chalcolithic
Date (YBP) 6161 ± 89
Burial / Location Burial 2, / Areni-1 Cave
Members / Sample Size 1/3
Percentage 33.3
mtDNA H2a1
Eye color (HIrisPlex System) Likely Blue
Hair color (HIrisPlex System) Likely Red
Skin pigmentation Likely light
ABO Blood Group Likely O or B
Lactase Persistence Likely lactose-intolerant
Age at Death 11 ± 2.5
Notes World’s earliest evidence of footwear and wine making

[Wrong]

Apparently there were red-haired, blue-eyed L1a people in Armenia 6161 ybp, while the Yamnayans were dark haired and dark eyed.

Areni-1 Cave L1a1
ID AR1/44 I1634
Y DNA L1a
Population Chalcolithic (Horizon III)
Culture Early Late Chalcolithic
Date (YBP) 6161 ± 89
Burial / Location Burial 2, / Areni-1 Cave
Members / Sample Size 1/3
Percentage 33.3
mtDNA H2a1
Eye color (HIrisPlex System) Likely Blue
Hair color (HIrisPlex System) Likely Red
Skin pigmentation Likely light
ABO Blood Group Likely O or B
Lactase Persistence Likely lactose-intolerant
Age at Death 11 ± 2.5
Notes World’s earliest evidence of footwear and wine making

Blue eyes were most likely first present in mtDNA, same with blond or red hair.

[Peterski]

Here, we propose that Genghis Khan and his family carried Y-haplogroup R1b-M343

Could be, egyptian Kings were R1b too.

R1 = Kings, Khans, EmpeR1ors, PR1inces, ImpeR1ators.

R1 = R1oyalty of the whole woR1ld, the AR1an R1ace.

R1uling Dynasties around the woR1ld turn out to be R1.

I suppose that Donald TR1ump also has R1 haplogroup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1w4IxCXIxU

[Peterski]

Genghis Khan had R1ed Hair, a typical trait of haplogroup R1 carriers:

http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-genghis-khan


Most accounts describe him [Genghis Khan] as tall and strong with a flowing mane of hair and a long, bushy beard. Perhaps the most surprising description comes courtesy of the 14th century Persian chronicler Rashid al-Din, who claimed Genghis had red hair and green eyes.

Al-Din’s account is questionable—he never met the Khan in person—but these striking features were not unheard of among the ethnically diverse Mongols.

Tall + red hair + green eyes + R1 = Genghis Khan was White Aryan.

[Rethel]

Al-Din’s account is questionable—he never met the Khan in person—but these striking features were not unheard of among the ethnically diverse Mongols.

It is not only this guy.
The Secret history of Mongols - the most important soucre - is talking about this either.
Temujin was surrprized, that his grandson has black hair. Obviously, he was total ignorant about genetics :)

[Proto-Shaman]

IE supremacists are in PANIC mode.

Negro-Polerbies(Polaks) and Incel-Saxons(Germanics) propagandists are getting destroyed by new discoveries.
These disoriented guys invent new things like "Hindu-Evropeans in Bronze Age Siberia" LOOOL

[Pahli]

These disoriented guys invent new things like "Hindu-Evropeans in Bronze Age Siberia" LOOOL

I'd rather call them churka-evropeans

the mong. influence is stronk in this one:

http://i49.tinypic.com/33wqxrd.jpg

[Rethel]

I'd rather call them churka-evropeans

the mong. influence is stronk in this one:


:picard1:

[Pahli]

:picard1:

:laugh:

[DarknessWin]

Genghis Khan had R1ed Hair, a typical trait of haplogroup R1 carriers:

http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-genghis-khan



Tall + red hair + green eyes + R1 = Genghis Khan was White Aryan.


Haplogroups have nothing to do with hair and eye color , only geographical location have

What about E-V13 Milla Jocovich ??

http://www.celebrityshop.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/milla-jovovich-6.jpg

And what about a R1b cameroonian ??

http://kaylehope.com/Cameroon/Images/languagephotolinguisticproblem.jpg

Or R1a north indians ??

http://www.ektaparishad.com/portals/0/Images/SupportUs/baiga-women-attend-meeting-in-niwas-khar.jpg


I read some posts to claim that E-V13 is black people , you must understand that everyone had black skin that time even in Asia ,Africa or Europe.
The first people with White skin were the Agriculture people in Europe from the E-V13 haplogroup (Funny ?)

"E1b1b individuals may have been the first people to have acquired the alleles for fair skin.
European hunter-gatherers were still dark skinned as recently as 7000 years ago (Olalde et al. 2014), while the Early Neolithic farmers from the Near East possessed
alleles for fair skin found in modern Europeans. Those Neolithic farmers would have included members of haplogroup E-V13 (confirmed) as well as E-M34 (inferred).
It is still unclear exactly when and among which haplogroup fair skin arose, but it has been suggested that the new diet brought by cereral agriculture would have
caused deficiencies in vitamin D, which was traditionally absorbed from fish and meat among foragers. "

Then we go back to ancient civilizations and we see that they had most E-V13, J2 and I hapls when R1 people were just a bunch of uncivilized nomads from steppes.
What is so great about R1 people ?? I still search for someone famous belong to this hapls but find nothing

Then we have from E-V13 some of the greatest minds and greatest warriors and leaders like : The Wright brothers, Albert Einstein, Vlad Tepes, Mussolini, Napoleon, Hitler, Caravaggio, Michelangelo ...
Dont forget Nikola Tesla from I2

Western civilization belong to these people, nothing great at all to the mongolic R1.
Sorry Rethel :p

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The only usefull application for R1b & R1a, is for being black baby incubators.

[Peterski]

What about E-V13 Milla Jocovich ??

Women don't have Y-DNA !!!

[Proto-Shaman]

Women don't have Y-DNA !!!
what he means is that women (as autosomal individuals) give life to y-dna carriers.

[Rethel]

About main theme: http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/09/r1a-and-r1b-from-early-mongolian-tomb.html

[DarknessWin]

Women don't have Y-DNA !!!

So her family are E-V13 but this is not the point here, the point is that blond hair and light color eyes can found in every haplogroup.
Its most geographically characteristic and not haplogroup characteristic