Why does greece have far more slavic DNA than albania?

[Hoxhaism]

whereas albania is more western influenced?

East europe admixture map:
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/East-European-admixture.gif

West europe admixture map:
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/West-European-admixture.gif

Albania's slavic admixture is that of france's whereas greece is heavily influenced.
When will we take out albania out of eastern europe and add greece instead?

[Sikeliot]

Albanians plot slightly north of Greeks, but Greeks have more NE European influence.

[Hoxhaism]

Albanians plot slightly north of Greeks, but Greeks have more NE European influence.

Albanians tend to look most like central italians whereas greeks to bulgarians.

[Sikeliot]

Albanians tend to look most like central italians whereas greeks to bulgarians.

I think NW Greece (Epirus, Western Greece, and some Peloponnese) look like Albanians though.

[wvwvw]

The map shows that Greeks have similar West European admixture as S.Italy (former Magna Grecia)

The Slavic admixture may not be all Slavic. It may be Myceanean or Thracian. It could be so that Albanians originated from a more NW location, somewhere above the Jirecek line; It may be that Albanians have more Celtic or Italic influence.

[Hoxhaism]

I think NW Greece (Epirus, Western Greece, and some Peloponnese) look like Albanians though.

because they have heavy albanian admixture, which is why they score less in slavic admixture than north east greeks especially

[wvwvw]

because they have heavy albanian admixture, which is why they score less in slavic admixture than north east greeks especially

Nope they don't. I think Tosks too score more "Slavic" than Ghegs.

[Hoxhaism]

The map shows that Greeks have similar West European admixture as S.Italy (former Magna Grecia)

The Slavic admixture may not be all Slavic. It may be Myceanean or Thracian. It could be so that Albanians originated from a more NW location, somewhere above the Jirecek line; It may be that Albanians have more Celtic or Italic influence.

Thracians in Belarus area (where this map scores highest?)? :picard1:
i do agree we have heavy latin (south central european) influence.

[wvwvw]

because they have heavy albanian admixture, which is why they score less in slavic admixture than north east greeks especially

S.Albania has been historically Greek land for over 3,500 years :rolleyes:

[Hoxhaism]

Nope they don't. I think Tosks too score more "Slavic" than Ghegs.

no, we are more meditarraneans maybe but not slavic.
ghegs have (a tiny amount) more slavic ancestry which makes sense since they are closer to them.
Toskëria is the least slavic influenced in all balkans.

[Hoxhaism]

S.Albania has been historically Greek land for over 3,500 years :rolleyes:

other way around, çameria is albanian.

[Sikeliot]

The map shows that Greeks have similar West European admixture as S.Italy (former Magna Grecia)

Greeks are as West European as southern Italians, but more East Euro than them. Also, SW Asian/Levant admixture is lower in Greece and North African absent, this makes the difference.

Albanians are similar to NW Greeks and some central Italians.

[wvwvw]

Btw, Greece does not score "far more Slavic DNA" than Albanians, but slightly more. Albania is slightly more western shifted than Greece.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Albanians tend to look most like central italians whereas greeks to bulgarians.

Albanians tend to look the same as Yugoslavians, to whom they are closer than any other (both dianaric, central Italians are not that dinaric), whereas Greeks have their distinct own look intermediate to central Italians and Bulgarians, but still closer to Central italians

As for your question, there is not such a thing as "slavic DNA", it's NE European which can be increased for many reasons. However,only in a particular part of Greece it's higher than in Albania. the rest has the same proportion

[gundyr]

Btw, Greece does not score "far more Slavic DNA" than Albanians, but slightly more. Albania is slightly more western shifted than Greece.

Hoxhaism is a stupid tosk bitch. Probably helot leftover.

[wvwvw]

Albanians are similar to NW Greeks and some central Italians.

The Despotate of Epirus streched from Northern Albania all the way down to Peloponessus.

[Hoxhaism]

Albanians tend to look the same as Yugoslavians, to whom they are closer than any other (both dianaric, central Italians are not that dinaric), whereas Greeks have their distinct own look intermediate to central Italians and Bulgarians.

As for your question, there is not such a thing as "slavic DNA", it's NE European which can be increased for many reasons. However,only in a particular part of Greece it's higher than in Albania. the rest has the same proportion

Of course there is such thing as slavic dna.
Yugoslavs look like pigmented russians, albanians look like italians with celtic influence maybe.
Greeks are intermediate between south europeans are bulgarians, which makes albanians more south european.

[Linet]

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/East-European-admixture.gif

Germany and Austria http://www.dhammawheel.com/images/smilies/beer.gif have alot more Slavic dna than Greece :sunny: , why dont you go bother them instead http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/t/turbopoke.gif? But yes, your world evolves around Greece :rolleyes: ...sorry i sometimes forget that.... Plus is not like Albania is Slavic-free , nor does it have that much less Slavic influence...except if you dont even understand the map you post :wacko: ....in this case we can talk about the Pomaks that live exactly in the areas on the higher Slavic density etc etc etc....

[Hoxhaism]

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/East-European-admixture.gif

Germany and Austria http://www.dhammawheel.com/images/smilies/beer.gif has alot more Slavic dna than Greece :sunny: , why dont you go bother them instead http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/t/turbopoke.gif? But yes, your world evolves around Greece :rolleyes: ...sorry i sometimes forget that.... Plus is not like Albania is Slavic-free , nor does it have that much less Slavic influence...except if you dont even understand the map you post :wacko: ....in this case we can talk about the Pomaks that live exactly in the areas on the higher Slavic density etc etc etc....

albania is slavic free.
If you could actually read the map albanias level of slavic admixture is to that of the dutch whereas greek admixture in some areas is the same as in bulgaria.

[Wrong]

I like Raine. Her posts today have been quality up to date.

[gundyr]

albania is slavic free.
If you could actually read the map albanias level of slavic admixture is to that of the dutch whereas greek admixture in some areas is the same as in bulgaria.

Albanians are slavs! Deal with it monkey.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Of course there is such thing as slavic dna.
Yugoslavs look like pigmented russians, albanians look like italians with celtic influence maybe.
Greeks are intermediate between south europeans are bulgarians, which makes albanians more south european.

can you post me even one source refering NE dna as "slavic"?

And no matters how they look to you, no anthropologist has associated yugoslavians with russians, on contrary they are always associated to dinaric albanians, being only lighter.

As for Greeks, just another mistake that you can not support. Plus Bulgarians are genetically more Southern than eastern Europeans, and if i am not mistaken autosomally and by racial types closer to albanians

and then again, most of Greece has not more NE DNA than Albania

[Hoxhaism]

Albanians are slavs! Deal with it monkey.

Funny, if you actually think albanians are slavs the monkey here is someone else.

[wvwvw]

Of course there is such thing as slavic dna.
Yugoslavs look like pigmented russians, albanians look like italians with celtic influence maybe.
Greeks are intermediate between south europeans are bulgarians, which makes albanians more south european.

Illyrians were similar to Italo-Celts

[Linet]

albania is slavic free.
If you could actually read the map albanias level of slavic admixture is to that of the dutch whereas greek admixture in some areas is the same as in bulgaria.

Are we seeing a different map? http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/crazy-monkey/crazy-monkey-emoticon-100.gif?1292792405

[gundyr]

I like Raine. Her posts today have been quality up to date.

I'm agree broder.

[Hoxhaism]

can you post me even one source refering NE dna as "slavic"?

And no matters how they look to you, no anthropologist has associated yugoslavians with russians, on contrary they are always associated to dinaric albanians, being only lighter.

As for Greeks, just another mistake that you can not support. Plus Bulgarians are genetically more Southern than eastern Europeans, and if i am not mistaken autosomally and by racial types closer to albanians

and then again, most of Greece has not more NE DNA than Albania

but you have less west european dna which makes you plot more towards the east.

[gundyr]

Illyrians were similar to Italo-Celts

They were more similar to Dorians....

[brennus dux gallorum]

Greeks overlap Tuscany, central Italy, being not even on border with bulgaria, albanians touching bulgaria

https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png

In other words, Albanians are intermediate between south europeans (Greeks and tuscany) and Bulgarians


Illyrians were similar to Italo-Celts

Greek language was closer to Italo-celtic than Albanian, both centum, albanian satem

[Linet]

They were more similar to Dorians....

Dorians? Like half the Greeks :eusa_eh: ? ...the Albos? :heh:

[gundyr]

Greek language was closer to Italo-celtic than Albanian, both centum, albanian satem

IE is a hoax.

[Hoxhaism]

Greeks overlap Tuscany, central Italy, being not even on border with bulgaria, albanians touching bulgaria

https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png

In other words, Albanians are intermediate between south europeans (Greeks and tuscany) and Bulgarians



Greek language was closer to Italo-celtic than Albanian, both centum, albanian satem

it's only kosovo on the map.
Kosovoars have a bit more slavic dna than tosks who have none.

[Linet]

Πφφφ...δεν θα κάτσω να τσιμπάω το δόλωμα του κάθε βλαμμένου Αλβανού....θα σας συμβούλευα το ίδιο... καληνύχτα παίδες... :wave:

[Hoxhaism]

They were more similar to Dorians....

no, greeks = south euro/slavic mix
albanians= south europeans with celtic and italic influence

[brennus dux gallorum]

it's only kosovo on the map.
Kosovoars have a bit more slavic dna than tosks who have none.

the same goes for albanians, they never overlap tuscany in autosomal researches, unlike Greece, and are always closer to Bulgaria than Greece is.

[gundyr]

no, greeks = south euro/slavic mix
albanians= south europeans with celtic and italic influence

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

[brennus dux gallorum]

no, greeks = south euro/slavic mix
albanians= south europeans with celtic and italic influence


Greeks=South Europeans
Albanians=Eastern Europeans with some south european influence

that's what my autosomal research shows

celtic influence in albanians sounds like an joke about irish :D:D:D

[Hoxhaism]

the same goes for albanians, they never overlap tuscany in autosomal researches, unlike Greece, and are always closer to Bulgaria than Greece is.

because bulgaria and albania have same levels of west european dna than greece which has less.

[gundyr]

Sluts like Hochxaism are the worst kind of subhuman the Balkan peninsula can produce, Slavic mixed or not. Greek girls in this forum are similar to her.

Legit broder. They need to be rounded up and deported.

[Hoxhaism]

Greeks=South Europeans
Albanians=Eastern Europeans with some south european influence

that's what my autosomal research shows

celtic influence in albanians sounds like an joke about irish :D:D:D

other way around.

[brennus dux gallorum]

I think all autosomal evidence we needed to prove that she is wrong was posted, now can we tell her that she is right to stop wasting our time? Ok she hates slavs so no matters if albos speak a satem language, no matters if they are muslims, no matters if their autosomal dna overlaps bulgarians, Albanians are still, more western than Morroco :D:D:D

[Wrong]

Albanian originated in Lithuania > Hungar basin > Dinaric Mountains > Albania

Span of 10 000 years.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Albanian originated in Lithuania > Hungaria basin > Dinaric Mountains > Albania

Span of 10 000 years.

don't say such things here, read who opened this thread :D

[Hoxhaism]

Albanian originated in Lithuania > Hungar basin > Dinaric Mountains > Albania

Span of 10 000 years.

:picard1:

@brennus dux gallorum you 'autosomal reasearch' is flawed. End of.

[Wrong]

don't say such things here, read who opened this thread :D
This is my theory that J2b2 moved south from Lithuania according to many Meso-Paleolithic maps that are shown in y-dna frequency.

Then we also have R1b-L23 Dorians bringing the language. EV13 Natufians earlier.

[brennus dux gallorum]

:picard1:

@brennus dux gallorum you 'autosomal reasearch' is flawed. End of.

the post you quoted was not mine, anyway. You can claim "southern" or "western" European heiritage as much you want, to compare it to "inferior" Serbs (who at least know what they are), I don;t care, i will not even comment, but any time you post anything about Greece you will end up with people making fun at you and the rest of albanians

[Wrong]

http://i.imgur.com/qqohccJ.jpg

[catgeorge]

Nice - we have confronted the female version of Laberia.

[Hoxhaism]

Nice - we have confronted the female version of Laberia.

intelligent minds think alike.

[safinator]

Greeks have more I2a1b and R1a on average than Albanians, even Tosks, so the slavic introgression in their genepool is higher.

Albanians cluster simply more west cause of the Illyrian core and less Slavic.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Greeks have more I2a1b and R1a on average than Albanians, even Tosks, so the slavic introgression in their genepool is higher.

Albanians cluster simply more west cause of the Illyrian core and less Slavic.

nice theory, but someone has to infrom you that autosomal researches are more common nowdays than Y-DNA

moreover where did you read that either R1a is associated to slavs or I2 to Illyrians?

[Wrong]

3 good haplogroups to have: R1b-L23, J2b2, EV13

I rest my case

[Hoxhaism]

nice theory, but someone has to infrom you that autosomal researches are more common nowdays than Y-DNA

lol

[catgeorge]

intelligent minds think alike.

I would say you both have an IQ of a shoesize but I will leave it at that.

What is more fascinating majority of your posts are about Greece and Greeks that belong in the troll forums.

Hence the shoesize IQ bit.

Serbs controlled you Albanians as minions for many years.

[Hoxhaism]

I would say you both have an IQ of a shoesize but I will leave it at that.

What is more fascinating majority of your posts are about Greece and Greeks that belong in the troll forums.

Hence the shoesize IQ bit.

Serbs controlled you Albanians as minions for many years.

• says i have the iq of a shoesize
• makes up history

[brennus dux gallorum]

I would say you both have an IQ of a shoesize but I will leave it at that.

What is more fascinating majority of your posts are about Greece and Greeks that belong in the troll forums.

Hence the shoesize IQ bit.

Serbs controlled you Albanians as minions for many years.
Better leave her alone, Serbs are Slavs, eastern Europeans, inferior :picard1:
Albanians on the other hand are Southern Europeans, so western Europeans, so superior.:picard2:

gagarin, the first man into outer space and a slav was a b*tch :D

[Hoxhaism]

Better leave her alone, Serbs are Slavs, eastern Europeans, inferior :picard1:
Albanians on the other hand are Southern Europeans, so western Europeans, so superior.:picard2:

gagarin, the first man into outer space and a slav was a b*tch :D

First man to actually land on moon: neill armstrong

[safinator]

nice theory, but someone has to infrom you that autosomal researches are more common nowdays than Y-DNA

moreover where did you read that either R1a is associated to slavs or I2 to Illyrians?

Autosomal research is shit for tracing migration patterns as any professional geneticist would tell you.

Y-DNA is far superior in doing that though there's also a better tool, albeit not perfect, which is IBD sharing which again would confirm my assumptions.
R1a is not all connected to Slavs i agree but the clades found both in Greece and Albania for that matter are.

I2 is not Illyrian but connected to Slavic migration into Balkans, don't wanna repeat myself on that one so just check Ken Nordvedt research.

[brennus dux gallorum]

First man to actually land on moon: neill armstrong

He was scottish, irish and german. Do you really want to debate his ancestry?:rolleyes:

[catgeorge]

Autosomal research is shit for tracing migration patterns as an professional geneticist would tell you.

Y-DNA is far superior in doing that though there's also a better tool, albeit not perfect, which is IBD sharing which again would confirm my assumptions.
R1a is not all connected to Slavs i agree but the clades found both in Greece and Albania for that matter are.

I2 is not Illyrian but connected to Slavic migration into Balkans, don't wanna repeat myself on that one so just check Ken Nordvedt research.

Only Greeks had a literal language to record the Slavic migrations.

If we did not record them no one will know of them and no one mentions the aborigines in the area during the migration because no one bothered to look.

The Albanians however where no where to be found.

[Hoxhaism]

He was scottish, irish and german. Do you really want to debate his ancestry?:rolleyes:

yes, western european just like albanians

and obviously the scottish, irish, albanian celtic connection.

[Herr Abubu]

nice theory, but someone has to infrom you that autosomal researches are more common nowdays than Y-DNA

moreover where did you read that either R1a is associated to slavs or I2 to Illyrians?

Some people seem to think autosomal admixtures associated with Slavs would come with Y-DNA associated with Slavs.

[Hoxhaism]

Only Greeks had a literal language to record the Slavic migrations.

If we did not record them no one will know of them and no one mentions the aborigines in the area during the migration because no one bothered to look.

The Albanians however where no where to be found.

we dont call ourselves albanians, only the romans gave us the name albania.

[catgeorge]

we dont call ourselves albanians, only the romans gave us the name albania.

When you were dwelling in the Caucasus writing in Georgian script, yes correct.

[brennus dux gallorum]

yes, western european just like albanians

and obviously the scottish, irish, albanian celtic connection.

Such a comment could have a future as a signature of me here in TA, but i will just ignore it if you promise that from now on you will be a good girl towards Greeks here

[gundyr]

Autosomal research is shit for tracing migration patterns as any professional geneticist would tell you.

Y-DNA is far superior in doing that though there's also a better tool, albeit not perfect, which is IBD sharing which again would confirm my assumptions.
R1a is not all connected to Slavs i agree but the clades found both in Greece and Albania for that matter are.

I2 is not Illyrian but connected to Slavic migration into Balkans, don't wanna repeat myself on that one so just check Ken Nordvedt research.

Thread should stop right here. Good post Tosk broder.

[Wrong]

Thread should stop right here. Good post Tosk broder.
Agreed. Mods, close this.

[Hoxhaism]

When you were dwelling in the Caucasus writing in Georgian script, yes correct.

if Caucasian Albania = Albania
Serbia = Serboi

If im not mistaken the romans invaded caucasus aswell, they couldve named modern day azerbaijan albania aswell, "alban" means mountain.

[gundyr]

Every Graec and Aelban should be tested. If they are I2 or R1a they should be deported to Mars.

[Styrian Mujo]

yes, western european just like albanians

and obviously the scottish, irish, albanian celtic connection.
What the actual fuck.

[Wrong]

Every Graec and Aelban should be tested. If they are I2 or R1a they should be deported to Mars.
or Siberia.

[catgeorge]

Every Graec and Aelban should be tested. If they are I2 or R1a they should be deported to Mars.

Mars = Ares

We are already there. North Greeks are Martians.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Mars = Ares

We are already there. North Greeks are Martians.

hahahahahahahaha σε λλλεω

[Wrong]

Finns en anledning till varför drygt 60% i Saloniki bär på R1a & I2a1b gener och inte de antika generna.

De är slaver/serber.

[Herr Abubu]

yes, western european just like albanians

and obviously the scottish, irish, albanian celtic connection.

bitch

[catgeorge]

Kiss our Martian Ass


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcvAOpnnMK0

[Herr Abubu]

we dont call ourselves albanians, only the romans gave us the name albania.

:crazy:

[Coolguy1]

The higher amount of eastern admixture in certain areas of Northeastern Greece is probably because Slavophone Greeks were included, Greco/Slav hybrids. Take them out and only count native Greek speakers and you will probably have different results.

[Herr Abubu]

if Caucasian Albania = Albania
Serbia = Serboi

If im not mistaken the romans invaded caucasus aswell, they couldve named modern day azerbaijan albania aswell, "alban" means mountain.

I don't care if you're right or not, I just want you to shut your stupid face.

[Hoxhaism]

I don't care if you're right or not, I just want you to shut your stupid face.

thats nice.

[Herr Abubu]

thats nice.

Go back to www.topix.com you moron.

[Hoxhaism]

Go back to www.topix.com you moron.

not until you go back to turkophile.com

[Herr Abubu]

not until you go back to turkophile.com

The Neo-Ottoman Empire will crush you. The Balkans couldn't even resist Turks times one. The Neo-Ottoman Empire is Turks times three. Koksal Baba will rape your dumb ass corpse, slag.

[Prism]

I think it's quite logical actually. Albanians who mixed with Slavs became Slavs by assimilating, this was not the case for the Greeks who did the opposite (they hellenized Slavs).

[gundyr]

Hoxhaism, do you want to meet my katana?

[Laberia]

I think all autosomal evidence we needed to prove that she is wrong was posted, now can we tell her that she is right to stop wasting our time? Ok she hates slavs so no matters if albos speak a satem language, no matters if they are muslims, no matters if their autosomal dna overlaps bulgarians, Albanians are still, more western than Morroco :D:D:D

Go fuck yourself with your researches you deluded gypsy.

[Shepherd]

Why does it seem like people are afraid of having Slavic DNA lol

[Hoxhaism]

I think it's quite logical actually. Albanians who mixed with Slavs became Slavs by assimilating, this was not the case for the Greeks who did the opposite (they hellenized Slavs).

+1

[Danaan]

Every Graec and Aelban should be tested. If they are I2 or R1a they should be deported to Mars.

Well, I2a1 is a noble Getan haplogroup.

[Laberia]

whereas albania is more western influenced?

East europe admixture map:
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/East-European-admixture.gif

West europe admixture map:
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/West-European-admixture.gif

Albania's slavic admixture is that of france's whereas greece is heavily influenced.
When will we take out albania out of eastern europe and add greece instead?

There had been a vast deal too much talk about the descendants of Leonidas and Themistocles, about the glories of Marathon and Thermopylae. The Greeks and their friends were too apt to leap back two thousand years and ignore all history between the fight of Chaeronea and the fight of Dragatshan.

The life and letters of Edward A. Freeman, D.C.L., LL. D. By William Richard Wood Stephens pages 190-192

Yes, what's happened between this two battles in Greece? First Greece fell under Macedonian occupation, a non Greek, a Barbarian population who burned and destroyed Greece. Then arrived the Romans who promised to the greeks the liberation from Macedonians. So, Greece fell under Roman occupation and here start a proces of latinization.
Later arrived the barbars, the epidemics, famine who decimated the population. And latter arrived the Slavs.
continue

[pelikarski]

can you post me even one source refering NE dna as "slavic"?

And no matters how they look to you, no anthropologist has associated yugoslavians with russians, on contrary they are always associated to dinaric albanians, being only lighter.

As for Greeks, just another mistake that you can not support. Plus Bulgarians are genetically more Southern than eastern Europeans, and if i am not mistaken autosomally and by racial types closer to albanians

and then again, most of Greece has not more NE DNA than Albania


Autosomally Bulgarians are Northern/Southern/West asian. In this order

[Laberia]

The invasion of Greece from the Slavs.

Procopius of Caesarea, Book VII, XIII - describing the events in year 545 AD:

Quote:

"(...) For a great throng of the barbarians, the Sclaveni [Slavs], had, as it happened, recently crossed the Ister [Danube], plundering the adjoining country and enslaved a very great number of Romans. (...)"

Another excerpt from Procopius:

"(...) In Illyria and Thracia, from the Ionian Gulf to Byzantine surrounding cities, where Hellas and Chersonese regions are situated, (...) the Sclavenes and the Antes, penetrating practically every year since Justinian administering the Roman Empire, were inflicting irreversible damage to their inhabitants. In each invasion I estimate 200,000 Romans were either enslaved or killed (...)"
And here an excerpt from John of Ephesus:

"(...) In third year after the death of Emperor Justin, during the reign of victorious Tiberius, the damned nation of the Slavs has risen, and marching through entire Hellas, through lands of Thessaly and Thrace, captured many cities and strongholds, plundered, burned and robbed, seized the land and settled there with full ease, without fear, like in their own land. (...) they were plundering the country, burning it and robbing, as far as the Great Walls [of Constantinople], and this is how they captured many thousands of cattle, as well as many other kinds of booty. (...) Until today, that is until year 584, they still continue to live in peace in lands of the Rhomaioi, without fear and concern, plundering, enslaving and burning, getting rich and highjacking gold and silver, capturing horses and plenty of weapons; and they have learned to fight better than the Rhomaioi. (...)"

Also a passage from Menander Protector:

"(...) About the fourth year of the reign of Caesar Tiberius Constantine, some hundred thousand Slavs broke into Thrace, and pillaged that and many other regions. As Greece was being laid waste and enslaved by the Slavs, with trouble liable to flare up anywhere, and as Tiberius had at his disposal by no means sufficient forces, he sent a delegation to the Khagan of the Avars. (...)"

"..John of Amida also known as John of Ephesus records that in 581

"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and
devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and
made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in
it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their
own. ... And even to this day [584 AD], they still encamp and dwell
there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety
and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn..."

Another source, the so-called Chronicle of Monembasia, states that
in the year 587—8 the Turkic Avars (with whom the Slavs were
usually allied)

"…..captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica
and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war;
and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they
dwelt there. Those who were able to escape their murderous hands were
scattered here and there. Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the
district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe,
the Corinthians to the island of Aegina.... Only the eastern part of
the Peloponnese, from Corinth to Cape Maleas, was untouched by the
Slavonians because of the rough and inaccessible nature of the
country... "

[Cyril Mango, BYZANTIUM: THE EMPIRE OF NEW ROME

And also: http://www.ascsa.edu.gr/pdf/uploads/hesperia/147272.pdf

"(...) There is clear evidence from the excavations of the Athenian Agora that the late sixth century witnessed some interruption in the peaceful course of town life in Athens. Certain buildings, for example, are known to have been burnt and temporarily or permanently deserted at that time. Finds of coinage, evidently concealed in haste or abandoned in emergency and never recovered, allow a date to be assigned to events, for which, although they are well attested by archaeological discovery, it would otherwise be very difficult to demonstrate a particular historical context. Byzantine chroniclers tell of a Slavonic invasion of Greece which took place apparently at the end of the year 578 or early in 579, as a result of which large numbers of Slavs settled in Greece... It is virtually certain that some of the destruction in the Athenian Agora, for which a date in the years immediately following the invasion is here proposed, was the work of the Slavs... Menander Protector, in his work chronicling the period ca. 560-580, writes as follows (...)"


Due to this events, the ancient greeks as many other ancient populations of Balcan Peninsula, ceased to exist. The few greeks who escaped from this events, migrated in other countries. Two nation survived from this cataclysmic events, the Albanians, an paleobalcanic population descendants of Illyrians and the vlachs which their origin is uncertain.
Two language survived from the ancient languages, the Greek, which continue to be used as the language of the administration in East Roman Empire and also was used by the populations as lingua franca and the Albanian.
continue

[Ülev]

albania is slavic free.
If you could actually read the map albanias level of slavic admixture is to that of the dutch whereas greek admixture in some areas is the same as in bulgaria.

should Russia liberate Albania then?

[Hoxhaism]

should Russia liberate Albania then?

no, liberate your slavic brothers the greeks.

[Ülev]

no, liberate your slavic brothers the greeks.

yep, I think that will be better if Russians, Czechs, Slovaks or Poles will visit Greece and leave Albania alone in holidays at summers

[Hoxhaism]

yep, I think that will be better if Russians, Czechs, Slovaks or Poles will visit Greece and leave Albania alone in holidays at summers

Yes, polluted people belong to the polluted shores of greece

[Hoxhaism]

"Clean" beach of greece:
http://marine-litter.gpa.unep.org/bilder/foton/regional/R4-beach-Greece-unep.jpg

"Polluted" albanian seaside
https://summitvoice.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mp16.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Aa2o1Mltuqc/URewQP7MpQI/AAAAAAAAAOs/5IUCXx1a5Gk/s1600/58411-jonufer-beach-vlore-albania.jpg

Don't forget out ugly mountains:
http://www.penguintravel.com/uploads/largeThumb/Th2file_5698.jpg

[Queen B]

intelligent minds think alike.
There are people that voluntarely put themselves in the same level with Laberia? :rotfl:
Είσαι άξια της μοίρας σου τελικά...


I think it's quite logical actually. Albanians who mixed with Slavs became Slavs by assimilating, this was not the case for the Greeks who did the opposite (they hellenized Slavs).
Τhe stronger ones assimiliated the weak ones :thumb001:

[Wrong]

Assimilated by Frappé. :D

[Scholarios]

Nobody denies that Greece has 'slavic' genetic contributions,

But what is funny is saying that Albania's is somehow less. ( it is marginally less). It's also funny that:

the fact that these ideas are largely based on completely unscientific ways of gathering info,

and the fact that we should actually give a shit that we have slightly more R1a1 than Albania is just too absurd for words.


Someone ban this autistic Tosk troll for god's sake. Along with her brother (I assume) Laberia. The noble Ghegs and Geni should stay.

[Dianatomia]

What is most evident about Albanians is that there is quite a lot of dichotomy among them. Tosk Albanians are very close to Greeks, while Kosovar (Gheghs) cluster separately. South Albania used to be Greek land for thousands of years, while Greeks and Romans established colonies all to way to North Albania. According to many sources, in Byzantine times, the few cities in what is today Albania where inhabited by Greeks, Latins (mostly Vlachs) and Albanians. While the population of the territory of what is now Albania numbered to around two hundred thousand inhabitants (not all Albanians).

There is nothing remarkable pure about them as they usually like to proclaim. The very few Albanologists who are around usually debunk many Albanian nationalistic myths.

As for the South Slavs, Albanians cluster closer to them than Greeks do, because the modern Slavs had absorbed a lot of Thraco-Illyrian blood and less Hellenic blood. Slavs who made it to Greece were either deported by Byzantine emperors Justinian and Nicephorus. While any remaining Slavs had been Hellenized.

Finally, there are different R1a clades in Greece. Only one of them is probably Slavic. Others seem older. It is likely that some I2 was already present in the South Balkans even in Ancient times. Slavs simply brought more of it.

[Laberia]

What is most evident about Albanians is that there is quite a lot of dichotomy among them. Tosk Albanians are very close to Greeks, while Kosovar (Gheghs) cluster separately. South Albania used to be Greek land for thousands of years, while Greeks and Romans established colonies all to way to North Albania. According to many sources, in Byzantine times, the few cities in what is today Albania where inhabited by Greeks, Latins (mostly Vlachs) and Albanians. While the population of the territory of what is now Albania numbered to around two hundred thousand inhabitants (not all Albanians).

There is nothing remarkable pure about them as they usually like to proclaim. The very few Albanologists who are around usually debunk many Albanian nationalistic myths.

As for the South Slavs, Albanians cluster closer to them than Greeks do, because the modern Slavs had absorbed a lot of Thraco-Illyrian blood and less Hellenic blood. Slavs who made it to Greece were either deported by Byzantine emperors Justinian and Nicephorus. While any remaining Slavs had been Hellenized.

Finally, there are different R1a clades in Greece. Only one of them is probably Slavic. Others seem older. It is likely that some I2 was already present in the South Balkans even in Ancient times. Slavs simply brought more of it.

South Albania has not been a Greek land. Tosk Albanians are close to modern Greeks because during the middle age, Albanians mostly from South but also even some from North, colonised an empty Greece.
BTW, where you have read this data about wo hundred thousand inhabitants in the territory of Albania and what period of time are you talking?

[Dianatomia]

South Albania has not been a Greek land. Tosk Albanians are close to modern Greeks because during the middle age, Albanians mostly from South but also even some from North, colonised an empty Greece.
BTW, where you have read this data about wo hundred thousand inhabitants in the territory of Albania and what period of time are you talking?

I used to spend a lot of time reading about books and encyclopedia's on demographic history. Greece's population was not scarce in medieval times. Especially not compared to Albanians. The latter were mostly non-existent in medieval times. Basically, until the 17th century, if every last Albanian on the planet would have entered Greece, they would still not make more than 4% of the population in the Greek inhabited world (I include the Greeks of the coast of Asia Minor on this one).

To cite but a single example, the population of Thessaloniki around 12th century would number around 150.000 inhabitants. Very close to the total amount of Albanians which are estimated to have existed around that time. While there were many cities in Greece at the time. Yet, the biggest city in Albania, Durres (Dirrachium) is estimated to have numbered around 9000 people. And many inhabitants were Greeks, Jews and Latins.

I don't know why the Arvanites in Greece are so over-hyped by Albanian nationalists today. People usually make absurd claims without having specific knowledge on the topic. The number of Ancient Greek colonies in Albanian lands, the Greek element of Epirus, the Byzantine Greek presence in Albania vastly outnumbers the Arvanite element in Greece. Many historians did not even distinguish Tosc Albania from the rest of Greece.

Greek nationalist could take a very militant position if they wanted to. Yet, somehow Albanians have a much deeper urge to make their case about Albanians in Greece, rather than Greeks having the urge to prove the Greek influence in Albania.

[Sakis]

South Albania has not been a Greek land. Tosk Albanians are close to modern Greeks because during the middle age, Albanians mostly from South but also even some from North, colonised an empty Greece.
BTW, where you have read this data about wo hundred thousand inhabitants in the territory of Albania and what period of time are you talking?

Aliens or what?:rotfl:

[Queen B]

I don't know why the Arvanites in Greece are so over-hyped by Albanian nationalists today. People usually make absurd claims without having specific knowledge on the topic. The number of Ancient Greek colonies in Albanian lands, the Greeks element of Epirus, the Byzantine Greek influence of Albania vastly outnumbers the Arvanite element in Greece. Greek nationalist could take a very militant position if they wanted to. Yet, somehow Albanians have a much deeper urge to make their case about Albanians in Greece, rather than Greeks having the urge to prove the Greek influence in Albania.
As I wrote before, there is nothing that Albanians can be proud of , or show of to the world. Arvanites is their chance that they did something with their lives.
Don't you see? All threads they create is about Greeks, or they mention Greeks somehow .

[Prism]

Τhe stronger ones assimiliated the weak ones :thumb001:

Weak? Eh do you even remember the 90s?

[Queen B]

Weak? Eh do you even remember the 90s?
Obviously.

[Geni]

What is most evident about Albanians is that there is quite a lot of dichotomy among them. Tosk Albanians are very close to Greeks, while Kosovar (Gheghs) cluster separately. South Albania used to be Greek land for thousands of years, while Greeks and Romans established colonies all to way to North Albania. According to many sources, in Byzantine times, the few cities in what is today Albania where inhabited by Greeks, Latins (mostly Vlachs) and Albanians. While the population of the territory of what is now Albania numbered to around two hundred thousand inhabitants (not all Albanians).

There is nothing remarkable pure about them as they usually like to proclaim. The very few Albanologists who are around usually debunk many Albanian nationalistic myths.

As for the South Slavs, Albanians cluster closer to them than Greeks do, because the modern Slavs had absorbed a lot of Thraco-Illyrian blood and less Hellenic blood. Slavs who made it to Greece were either deported by Byzantine emperors Justinian and Nicephorus. While any remaining Slavs had been Hellenized.

Finally, there are different R1a clades in Greece. Only one of them is probably Slavic. Others seem older. It is likely that some I2 was already present in the South Balkans even in Ancient times. Slavs simply brought more of it.

This is not true..albanian study recognize the hellenic city from coast and slavic invasions....we know tha Durres/Epidamnon times was 1 Korinthian colony together with Apollonia ...we know that in medieval times before Skanderbeg albanian city was full vlachs,slavs,greek ,judes..but not the villages around and mountains..We have this in HISTORY of Albania school book..

[Prism]

Obviously.

So you're claiming that South Slavs are weak despite all the fighting that occurred during the Yugoslav Wars?

[Hoxhaism]

As I wrote before, there is nothing that Albanians can be proud of , or show of to the world..


Mother Theresa saving lives in India?

[Queen B]

So you're claiming that South Slavs are weak despite all the fighting that occurred during the Yugoslav Wars?
I'm not using it in the fighting/war-loving sense, I'm using it in a culture/society sense, its about assimiliation after all.
Who assimiliates whom? The majority -> the minority. The strong -> the weak. The native -> the foreigner and go on..

Mother Theresa saving lives in India?
While other people whould debate over Mother Teresa, I'll take it as one person.
The other one is the half-Albo Ferid Murad.
But what else? What you have offered? And if you have - indeed - offered something, why all you ever talk about is Greece/Greeks?
All you do in this forum is talking about Greeks again and again and again. You are literally the only group of people that you make more threads about others than you do about yourself. Have you ever though about that ? Have you got any idea how pathetic this looks like ? Whatever you say revolved about Greeks.

[Hellenas]

There is not much "Slavic" genes in Greece, it is called East European admixture in genetics, not Slavic.

Medieval Slav invaders= Slaughtered most of them by the Byzantine army, their leaders transferred to Contantinoupolis and the few Slavs who sutrvived transferred to Asia Minor, a tiny minority of them only assimilated in Greece.

7th century

Slavic conquest of several parts of Greece, Greek migrations to Southern Italy, Roman emperors capture main Slavic bodies and transfer them to Cappadocia. The Bosphorus is re-populated by Macedonian and Cypriot Greeks.

8th century

Roman dissolution of surviving Slavic settlements in Greece and full recovery of the Greek peninsula.

9th century

Retro-migrations of Greeks from all parts of the Empire (mainly from Southern Italy and Sicily) into parts of Greece that were depopulated by the Slavic Invasions (mainly western Peloponnesus and Thessaly).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks#Timeline


Greeks are not widely mixed with East European & Slavs.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/178/greeks-widely-mixed-european-slavs



Haplogroup R1a, Its Subclades and Branches in Europe during the Last 9000 Years

Igor L. Rozhanskii, Anatole A. Klyosov*
The Academy of DNA Genealogy, Newton, USA

"We found that the most ancient R1a sub- clades (R1a1-M198? and R1a1a-M198+/M417?) bearers of which currently live in Europe (the present day haplotypes are scattered between England and the Balkans) appeared in Europe at least 7300 ybp, and possibly 9000 ybp."

"By ~9000 ybp they arrived in the Balkans and spread westward over Europe and to the British Isles."

"Some known archaeological cultures in the Balkans and Central/Eastern Europe, dated 8000 - 7000 ybp (Bug-Dniester, Vinca, Starcevo, LBK, etc.), can be attributed, as least in part, to bearers of R1a."

"We do not know exactly where their common ancestor lived, since members of this branch are scattered in Europe from the Balkans to the British isles(Map 1). It may be that they are descendants of those R1a bearers who came to the Balkans ~9000 ybp at the European end of their migration route from Central Asia (Klyosov & Rozhanskii, 2012)."

www.researchgate.net/publication/235891857_Haplogroup_R1a_Its_Subclades_and_Branche s_in_Europe_During_the_Last_9000_Years

[Hoxhaism]

I'm not using it in the fighting/war-loving sense, I'm using it in a culture/society sense, its about assimiliation after all.
Who assimiliates whom? The majority -> the minority. The strong -> the weak. The native -> the foreigner and go on..

While other people whould debate over Mother Teresa, I'll take it as one person.
The other one is the half-Albo Ferid Murad.
But what else? What you have offered? And if you have - indeed - offered something, why all you ever talk about is Greece/Greeks?
All you do in this forum is talking about Greeks again and again and again. You are literally the only group of people that you make more threads about others than you do about yourself. Have you ever though about that ? Have you got any idea how pathetic this looks like ? Whatever you say revolved about Greeks.

Not really, i'm just using greeks in comparison to albanians.

[Queen B]

Not really, i'm just using greeks in comparison to albanians.
My point exactly. You are trying to give substance and worth to your people by comparison.
Pathetic af.

[Hoxhaism]

My point exactly. You are trying to give substance and worth to your people by comparison.
Pathetic af.

Anyways, no point in posting in a thread that was already done & closed.

[Dianatomia]

This is not true..albanian study recognize the hellenic city from coast and slavic invasions....we know tha Durres/Epidamnon times was 1 Korinthian colony together with Apollonia ...we know that in medieval times before Skanderbeg albanian city was full vlachs,slavs,greek ,judes..but not the villages around and mountains..We have this in HISTORY of Albania school book..

There were quite some Greek colonies along the coastline. The coastline until the drin river was mostly Greek, while the interior (aside from Epirus) was mostly Illyrian. Although some interior localities were a mix between Greeks and Illyrians at the time as well. In Byzantine times, Albania was seen as the gateway to the Greek world from Italy's perspective. It was the starting point of the via Egnatia to Constantinople. Especially in Tosk areas the Greek element has certainly been strong. Romans described Albania as a hybrid area between Greeks and Illyrians. We have to take into consideration that Albania was rather scarcely populated.

I'm not going to play the same game some Albanian nationalist do and claim Albanians are Greeks. But the Greek element in Albanian territory (especially the south) can not be denied. Ironically, it is far stronger than the Greek element in territories of FYR of Macedonia which was mostly Thracian.

[Laberia]

I used to spend a lot of time reading about books and encyclopedia's on demographic history. Greece's population was not scarce in medieval times. Especially not compared to Albanians. The latter were mostly non-existent in medieval times. Basically, until the 17th century, if every last Albanian on the planet would have entered Greece, they would still not make more than 4% of the population in the Greek inhabited world (I include the Greeks of the coast of Asia Minor on this one).

To cite but a single example, the population of Thessaloniki around 12th century would number around 150.000 inhabitants. Very close to the total amount of Albanians which are estimated to have existed around that time. While there were many cities in Greece at the time. Yet, the biggest city in Albania, Durres (Dirrachium) is estimated to have numbered around 9000 people. And many inhabitants were Greeks, Jews and Latins.

I don't know why the Arvanites in Greece are so over-hyped by Albanian nationalists today. People usually make absurd claims without having specific knowledge on the topic. The number of Ancient Greek colonies in Albanian lands, the Greek element of Epirus, the Byzantine Greek presence in Albania vastly outnumbers the Arvanite element in Greece. Many historians did not even distinguish Tosc Albania from the rest of Greece.

Greek nationalist could take a very militant position if they wanted to. Yet, somehow Albanians have a much deeper urge to make their case about Albanians in Greece, rather than Greeks having the urge to prove the Greek influence in Albania.

There is a magic word, sources. Do you have any source to support your claims?

[Laberia]

Aliens or what?:rotfl:http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?188967-Why-does-greece-have-far-more-slavic-DNA-than-albania&p=3921663&viewfull=1#post3921663

[Laberia]

There were quite some Greek colonies along the coastline. The coastline until the drin river was mostly Greek, while the interior (aside from Epirus) was mostly Illyrian. Although some interior localities were a mix between Greeks and Illyrians at the time as well. In Byzantine times, Albania was seen as the gateway to the Greek world from Italy's perspective. It was the starting point of the via Egnatia to Constantinople. Especially in Tosk areas the Greek element has certainly been strong. Romans described Albania as a hybrid area between Greeks and Illyrians. We have to take into consideration that Albania was rather scarcely populated.

I'm not going to play the same game some Albanian nationalist do and claim Albanians are Greeks. But the Greek element in Albanian territory (especially the south) can not be denied. Ironically, it is far stronger than the Greek element in territories of FYR of Macedonia which was mostly Thracian.

And where are this greek element in Epir? How this people disappeared? Aliens?

[Dianatomia]

There is a magic word, sources. Do you have any source to support your claims?

In this forum, people constantly make stupid claims without sources, while people with reason are discarded just as easily. I am not going to go through any trouble to show any sources. You do some research yourself if you are interested. I have nothing to prove to anyone.

[Dianatomia]

And where are this greek element in Epir? How this people disappeared? Aliens?

Yep, the Aliens took them, together with all Thracian and Illyrian peoples in the Balkans.

[Laberia]

In this forum, people constantly make stupid claims without sources, while people with reason are discarded just as easily. I am not going to go through any trouble to show any sources. You do some research yourself if you are interested. I have nothing to prove to anyone.

Ok, you don`t have sources. Let`s change the game. What`s your opinion about this source:
http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/reports/arvanites.html
The first Christian Albanian migrations to what is today Greek territory took place as early as the XI-XII centuries (Trudgill, 1975:5; Banfi, 1994:19), although the main ones most often mentioned in the bibliography happened in the XIV-XV centuries, when Albanians were invited to settle in depopulated areas by their Byzantine, Catalan or Florentine rulers (Tsitsipis, 1994:1; Trudgill, 1975:5; Nakratzas, 1992:20-24 & 78-90; Banfi, 1994:19). According to some authors, they were also fleeing forced Islamization by the Turks in what is today Albania (Katsanis, 1994:1). So, some have estimated that, when the Ottomans conquered the whole Greek territory in the XV century, some 45% of it was populated by Albanians (Trudgill, 1975:6). Another wave of Muslim Albanian migrations took place during the Ottoman period, mainly in the XVIII century (Trudgill, 1975:6; Banfi, 1994:19). All these Albanians are the ancestors of modern-day Arvanites in Central and Southern Greece.

PS.
There are some curious data even about vlachs, slavs etc. But let`s concentrate on Albanians and greeks.

[Laberia]

Come on Dianatomia, let me help you. In every forum you always post this:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Greece
From years now, the same post, ten rows.

[wvwvw]

There had been a vast deal too much talk about the descendants of Leonidas and Themistocles, about the glories of Marathon and Thermopylae. The Greeks and their friends were too apt to leap back two thousand years and ignore all history between the fight of Chaeronea and the fight of Dragatshan.

The life and letters of Edward A. Freeman, D.C.L., LL. D. By William Richard Wood Stephens pages 190-192

Yes, what's happened between this two battles in Greece? First Greece fell under Macedonian occupation, a non Greek, a Barbarian population who burned and destroyed Greece. Then arrived the Romans who promised to the greeks the liberation from Macedonians. So, Greece fell under Roman occupation and here start a proces of latinization.
Later arrived the barbars, the epidemics, famine who decimated the population. And latter arrived the Slavs.
continue

Bullcrap. http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/word/bullshit-bs-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

Macedonia was part of the Hellenic Union, ie. Greece which both Phillip II 
and Alexander III were presidents of.

After the battle of the Grannikos Alexander the Great sent to Athens some pieces of armor captured from the Persians with the following inscription :
"Alexander, son of Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lakedaimonians, offer these spoils taken from the barbarians of Asia".

Macedonia was a member of the Delphic Amfictiony , an institution which was open only to Greeks

What was the origin of ancient Macedonians?

"The name of the ancient Macedonians is derived from Macedon, who was the grandchild of Deukalion, the father of all Greeks. This we may infer from Hesiod's genealogy. It may be proven that Macedonians spoke Greek since Macedon, the ancestor of Macedonians, was a brother of Magnes, the ancestor of Thessalians, who spoke Greek."
(Professor Nicholas Hammond, University of Cambridge)

from LIVY. ROME AND THE MEDITERRANEAN
Translated by HENRY BETTENSON
PENGUIN CLASSICS
For fair use only


In the year 200 B.C. the Macedonian King Philip V sent
Macedonian ambassadors to the council of the Aetolian
League, the 'Panaetolian Congress', to try to prevent the
Romans from inducing the Aetolians to change their allegiance
from Philip V to the Romans in their 2nd Macedonian War.
At the council was also the Roman representative
sent by the consul, and also a deputation from the
Athenians who were the Romans' allies at this time.
A hearing was first given to the Macedonians.


'..........the same reasons which led them (the Aetolians)
to make peace with Philip should lead them to keep that
peace, once it had been established'.
'Or do you prefer' said one of the the delegates, '.......
................ . It is sheer madness to expect anything will
remain in the same state [b]if aliens, more widely separated
from you by language, customs and laws than by distance
over sea and land, obtain control over these parts.
Philip's rule ............. . Allow the foreign legions to settle
down in these parts and take the yoke on your shoulders;
then it will be too late and all in vain to call on Philip as
your ally, when you have the Roman for your lord. The
Aetolians, the Acarnanians, the Macedonians, are divided
or united by unimportant causes that arise from time
to time; with aliens, with barbarians, all Greeks are and
will be for ever at war; for they are enemies not for
reasons which change from day to day, but by nature -
and nature is eternal. But now my speech will end .........'


Livy (Titus Livius), XXXI.28 - XXXI.29
from LIVY. ROME AND THE MEDITERRANEAN
Translated by HENRY BETTENSON
PENGUIN CLASSICS
For fair use only


_Rome dictates terms after 3rd Macedonian War_

17 [167 B.C.]. The Senate appointed ten commissioners
for Macedonia and five for Illyricum; on their advice
Paulus and Anicius were to settle affairs in those
countries. The members of the Macedonian
commission were nominated first: they were .......... .
The men who were being sent on the commissions
were of a quality to justify the hope that on their
advice the commanders would make no decisions
inconsistant with the clemency and the dignity of the
Roman people; nevertheless, there were discussions
in the Senate about guiding principles of policy so
that the commissioners should be able to convey from
home to the generals the ground work of a settlement.

18. First of all, it was decided that the Macedonians and
the Illyrians should be free; so that it should be evident
to all peoples that the arms of the Roman people did
not bring slavery to the free but, on the contrary,
freedom to the enslaved; so that nations which enjoyed
freedom should feel that their liberty was assured in
perpetuity under the protection of the Roman People,
and that those people who lived under the rule of kings
should be convinced that for the present their rulers
were more gentle and more just by reason of their
respect for the Roman People, and that if ever their
rulers should be at war with the Roman People, the
result of that war would bring victory to the Romans
and liberty to themselves.
It was also decided to do away with the leasing of the
Macedonian mines,............................................ .. .
Finally, fearing that a common legislative body for
the whole nation might give a chance for some
unscrupulous demagogue to pervert the freedom
given by healthy moderation into the licence
which is a plague to any commonwealth, the Senate
decided to divide Macedonia into four districts, each
having its own governing body. It was also decreed
that Macedonia should pay to the Roman people
half the tribute which they had customarily paid to
their kings. ......................................

29. Paulus had given orders that on a certain day
ten leading citizens from each city should present
themselves at Amphipolis, that all official documents
deposited in different places should be collected by
that time, and the king's money should be brought
in. When the day arrived, Paulus, accompanied by
the ten commissioners, took his seat on his official
platform, surrounded by the whole crowd of
Macedonians. The Macedonians were accustomed
to the power of kings; but this new sovereign power
was displayed to them in a fashion to inspire
dread; the consul's seat of judgement, his entrance
after a path had been cleared, the herald, and
the attendant - all these were novelties to their eyes
and ears, and they were things that might have
frightened even allies, not to speak of conquered
enemies. When the herald had imposed silence,
Paulus announced in Latin the decisions of the
Senate, along with his own decisions, made on the
advice of his council.
The praetor Gnaeus Octavius - for he too was
there - translated these announcements into
Greek and conveyed them to the Macedonians.
The provisions were as follows: first of all, the
Macedonians were to be free, keeping their own
cities and territories, enjoying their own laws, and
electing annual magistrates; they were to pay to
Roman people half the tax they had paid to their kings.
In the next place Macedonia was to be divided into
four districts; one district, the first division would
consist of the land between the rivers Strymon and
Nessus; and to this division would be added, from
across the Nessus to the east, the villages, fortified
places, and towns which Perseus had held, except
Aenus, Maronea, and Abdera, while on the nearer
side of the Strymon, towards the west, there would
be added all the country of the Bisaltae, including
Heraclea (Heraclea Sintice as it is called). The
second district was to consist of the part bounded
on the east by the River Strymon, excluding Heraclea
Sintice and the Bisaltae - and on the west by the
Axius, and was to include the Paeonians dwelling
near the Axius on the east bank of the river. The
third district comprised the territory enclosed on
the east by the Axius and on the west by the River
Peneus - on the north Mount Bora forms a barrier;
to this division was added the region of Paeonia
which extends along the west bank of the Axius;
Edessa and Beroea were also assigned to this
district. The fourth district was on the other side of
Mount Bora, one part of it bordering on Illyricum,
the other on Epirus. The capitals of the districts,
where their councils were to be held, were these:
for the first district, Amphipolis; for the second,
Thessalonica; for the third, Pella; for the fourth,
Pelagonia. The consul gave orders that a council
for each district should be called in each of these
places, and that in these places money should
be brought in, and magistrates elected.
Next he announced a decision that no one should
have the right of marriage or of dealing in land or
buildings outside the confines of his own district.
Moreover, the mines of gold and silver were not
to be worked, although the working of iron and
copper mines was allowed, the taxon those working
the mines was fixed at half the amount they had
paid to the king. He forbade the use of imported
salt. When the Dardanians asked for the
restoration of Paeonia, on the ground that it had
been theirs and that it adjoined their boundaries,
Paulus announced that freedom was being given
to all those who had been under the rule of King
Perseus. But after refusing them Paeonia he gave
them the right to import salt; he ordered the third
district to convey salt to Stobi in Paeonia, and he
fixed the price of this commodity. He forbade the
Macedonians to cut timber for ships, or to allow
others to do so. The districts with barbarians on
their borders - all the districts, that is, except the
third - were given leave to have armed guards along
their frontiers.

30. The announcement of these provisions on the
first day of the meeting aroused varied feelings.
The unexpected granting of freedom, and the
lightening of the annual tax, raised men's spirits;
but to those whose commercial activities were
interrupted by the division into districts their
country seemed cut into pieces, like an animal
torn into separate parts, each of which needed the others;
so unaware were the Macedonians themselves of
the size of Macedonia, of the ease with which it
could be divided, of the self-sufficiency of each part.
The first district enjoys many advantages; it has the
Bisaltae, first-class fighting men (they live beyond
the Nessus, in the neighbourhood of the Strymon);
it has crops of many kinds peculiar to the region,
it has mines; and the strategic position of Amphipolis
forms a barrier closing all approaches into
Macedonia from the east. The second division has
the extremely populous cities of Thessalonica and
Cassandrea, and it has besides, in Pallene, a
fertile and fruitful territory; it is also provided with
maritime advantages in the shape of the harbours at
Torone, Mount Athos, Aenea, and Acanthus, all in
convenient positions, some facing Thessaly and the
island of Euboea, others looking towards the
Hellespont. The third region has the notable cities of
Edessa, Beroea, and Pella; it includes the warlike
people of the Vettii, besides a large settlement of
Gauls and Illyrians, who are energetic farmers. The
fourth region is inhabited by the Eordaei, the
Lyncestae, and the Pelagonians; added to these
are Atintania, Tymphaeis, and Elimiotis. All this stretch
of country is cold, difficult of cultivation and harsh;
and it has inhabitants of a character resembling the
land; and they are made fiercer by the wild tribesmen
dwelling next to them, who sometimes give them
practice in warfare, sometimes, in times of peace, an
intermixture of their customs. The division of Macedonia
thus demonstrated, by separating the advantages of the
different parts, the greatness of the country as a whole.

31. After the dictation of the scheme for Macedonia,
Paulus gave notice that he would also lay down laws.
He then summoned the Aetolians to appear before him.
In this examination .................................................. .

Livy (Titus Livius), XLV.17 - XLV.31
from LIVY. ROME AND THE MEDITERRANEAN
Translated by HENRY BETTENSON
PENGUIN CLASSICS
For fair use only

[Dianatomia]

Come on Dianatomia, let me help you. In every forum you always post this:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Greece
From years now, the same post, ten rows.

Oh come on Laberia. I am flattered that you have used a link I posted years ago. So just this once, I will post a link just for you:


Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - When Albania is proclaimed and recognised as an independent nation (1912-1913) its population numbered 700,000 of which hardly 50% were Albanians, ........ With the passing of time, mostly by force, with denial of all national rights, including the right to speak in their own languages at home, or to carry their own national family names, they are to a certain extent assimilated.....The non albanian origins of the population of Albania is also evident from their surnames Bello, Blushi, Bogdani, Buda, Budi, Dida, Dobraci, Dragovoja, Dragusha, Haveri(ch), Kapisuzi(ch), Mexi, Millani, Milloshi, Mojsiu, Muzaka, Najdeni, Peku, Prela, Ruka, Sillil, Shkura, Shundi, Ziu and many others.

The above mentioned Professor wrote something like 200.000 pages on Albanians.

Link (http://arsyenije.blogspot.nl/2010/01/albanian-racism-towards-its-neighbours.html)

[Laberia]

Oh come on Laberia. I am flattered that you have used a link I posted years ago. So just this once, I will post a link just for you:


Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - When Albania is proclaimed and recognised as an independent nation (1912-1913) its population numbered 700,000 of which hardly 50% were Albanians, ........ With the passing of time, mostly by force, with denial of all national rights, including the right to speak in their own languages at home, or to carry their own national family names, they are to a certain extent assimilated.....The non albanian origins of the population of Albania is also evident from their surnames Bello, Blushi, Bogdani, Buda, Budi, Dida, Dobraci, Dragovoja, Dragusha, Haveri(ch), Kapisuzi(ch), Mexi, Millani, Milloshi, Mojsiu, Muzaka, Najdeni, Peku, Prela, Ruka, Sillil, Shkura, Shundi, Ziu and many others.

The above mentioned Professor wrote something like 200.000 pages on Albanians.

Link (http://arsyenije.blogspot.nl/2010/01/albanian-racism-towards-its-neighbours.html)
As i said, usually your posts are copy past from one forum to another.
Hey, for example Ziu in Albanian mean black. Sometimes, try to verify this "sources". You are a charlatan like this "professor" and like your northern friend, davai aka zoupan. Enjoy the party.

[Dianatomia]

As i said, usually your posts are copy past from one forum to another.
Hey, for example Ziu in Albanian mean black. Sometimes, try to verify this "sources". You are a charlatan like this "professor" and like your northern friend, davai aka zoupan. Enjoy the party.

You just prove my point. Some sources are more equal than others. You cherry pick sources to make your point, while you discard sources which go against your slander. It is you who invited me to the party. You serve militant anti-hellenism and I served you a dose of your own medicine.

Looking at your posts and some other (not all) Albanians, it seems pretty obvious you and some of your countrymen have a sort of inferiority complex towards Greeks. I mean, really, the title of this thread says it all. Get over it. We are in the 21st century.

[solaris]

because Albanians used to live in mountainous areas difficult to access for the arriving slavic tribes. That is why you can spot an albanian the easiest - the isolation of hundreds of years .... I guess you understand.

[Laberia]

You just prove my point. Some sources are more equal than others. You cherry pick sources to make your point, while you discard sources which go against your slander. It is you who invited me to the party. You serve militant anti-hellenism and I served you a dose of your own medicine.

Looking at your posts and some other (not all) Albanians, it seems pretty obvious you and some of your countrymen have a sort of inferiority complex towards Greeks. I mean, really, the title of this thread says it all. Get over it. We are in the 21st century.

OK. Nothing to say about our discussion here? Or you just don't have sources.

[Dema]

I guess Greek girls might be easier then Albanian ones, that can be one of the reasons ?

[Albobalboa]

I used to spend a lot of time reading about books and encyclopedia's on demographic history. Greece's population was not scarce in medieval times. Especially not compared to Albanians. The latter were mostly non-existent in medieval times. Basically, until the 17th century, if every last Albanian on the planet would have entered Greece, they would still not make more than 4% of the population in the Greek inhabited world (I include the Greeks of the coast of Asia Minor on this one).

To cite but a single example, the population of Thessaloniki around 12th century would number around 150.000 inhabitants. Very close to the total amount of Albanians which are estimated to have existed around that time. While there were many cities in Greece at the time. Yet, the biggest city in Albania, Durres (Dirrachium) is estimated to have numbered around 9000 people. And many inhabitants were Greeks, Jews and Latins.

I don't know why the Arvanites in Greece are so over-hyped by Albanian nationalists today. People usually make absurd claims without having specific knowledge on the topic. The number of Ancient Greek colonies in Albanian lands, the Greek element of Epirus, the Byzantine Greek presence in Albania vastly outnumbers the Arvanite element in Greece. Many historians did not even distinguish Tosc Albania from the rest of Greece.

Greek nationalist could take a very militant position if they wanted to. Yet, somehow Albanians have a much deeper urge to make their case about Albanians in Greece, rather than Greeks having the urge to prove the Greek influence in Albania.

Arvanites overhyped, yet without the cities of Hydra and Spetses, two Arvanite cities, Greece would've barely had a navy against the Ottomans. Hydra alone 150 ships plus supplies, even Greek historians acknowledge that they played an absolutely critical role. The only one you're fooling is yourself. As for the rest I am neutral.

Greeks couldn't take a militant position at all we've already seen from just a few threads how "Greekdom" falls apart at the slightest whiff of resistance. Still the medieval times are just a one big black spot that none of you has explained, go check the relevant threads.

[Hellenas]

I guess Greek girls might be easier then Albanian ones, that can be one of the reasons ?

Yes of course, also a probable reason Albanians have much more African DNA than Greeks it's cause Albanian women are easier with niggers than are Greek women. We all know how much you love Americans and they are full of Blacks who know what your women need.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2cgomsj.jpg

Distribution of the African admixture in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes'

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2].

2. Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/greekmtdna/

THE DNA OF THE INHABITANTS OF GREECE (by Aristotle University of Thessaloniki):

"The Greeks at a rate of 99.5% are Caucasians (white). The contribution to the genetic makeup of the Greeks from other groups (blacks or Mongolians) is of a minimal percentage (less than 0.5%)."

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/44/updated-dna-inhabitants-greece


Greek Nationalists support him.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Russia-653986.jpg

Albanian Sovinists him.

http://sokhango.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C%D9%84.jpg

Greeks more Slavs/Russians.

Albanians more Niggers/Black Americans.

Who's cleaner? Who's better?

:fponder:

[Albobalboa]

Yes of course, also a probable reason Albanians have much more African DNA than Greeks it's cause Albanian women are easier with niggers than are Greek women. We all know how much you love Americans and they are full of Blacks who know what your women need.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2cgomsj.jpg

Distribution of the African admixture in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes'

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2].

2. Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/greekmtdna/

THE DNA OF THE INHABITANTS OF GREECE (by Aristotle University of Thessaloniki):

"The Greeks at a rate of 99.5% are Caucasians (white). The contribution to the genetic makeup of the Greeks from other groups (blacks or Mongolians) is of a minimal percentage (less than 0.5%)."

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/44/updated-dna-inhabitants-greece


Greek Nationalists support him.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Russia-653986.jpg

Albanian Nationalists him.

http://sokhango.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C%D9%84.jpg

Greeks more Slavs/Russians.

Albanians more Niggers/Black Americans.

Who's cleaner? Who's better?

:fponder:

Dienekes and Hellas2010.proboards. :thumb001: Like the Serbs with Serbianna and Macedonians with Macedoniantruth. Bloody brilliant, nice addition of racism there too, oh how clean you are lol.

[Hellenas]

Dienekes and Hellas2010.proboards. :thumb001: Like the Serbs with Serbianna and Macedonians with Macedoniantruth. Bloody brilliant, nice addition of racism there too, oh how clean you are lol.

:coffee:

Hmm, not very smart idea to question the sources.

The sources are.

For African admixture:

Dodecad Project and Eurogenes.

For African admixture to Greeks and Albanians:

Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

And for non-caucasoid admixture to Greeks:

Geneticist Konstantinos Triantafyllides from Aristotle University of Thessaloniki.

[Hoxhaism]

Yes of course, also a probable reason Albanians have much more African DNA than Greeks it's cause Albanian women are easier with niggers than are Greek women. We all know how much you love Americans and they are full of Blacks who know what your women need.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2cgomsj.jpg

Distribution of the African admixture in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes'

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2].

2. Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/greekmtdna/

THE DNA OF THE INHABITANTS OF GREECE (by Aristotle University of Thessaloniki):

"The Greeks at a rate of 99.5% are Caucasians (white). The contribution to the genetic makeup of the Greeks from other groups (blacks or Mongolians) is of a minimal percentage (less than 0.5%)."

http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/44/updated-dna-inhabitants-greece


Greek Nationalists support him.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Russia-653986.jpg

Albanian Sovinists him.

http://sokhango.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/%D8%A7%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C%D9%84.jpg

Greeks more Slavs/Russians.

Albanians more Niggers/Black Americans.

Who's cleaner? Who's better?

:fponder:

do you really trust maps you find on the internet?
Greece has a long history of Persion, Turks Arabs and Egyptians.
The only out of these people that have historically stepped foot on Albania were Turks who from out of all those choices are the whitest imo

[Yggdrasil]

When did Lithuanians become Slavs?
That is not a map of Slavic but of Eastern european DNA, more specifically Northeast european.

[Yggdrasil]

I see this has turned into an Albanian VS Greek thread :laugh:

[Hoxhaism]

When did Lithuanians become Slavs?
That is not a map of Slavic but of Eastern european DNA, more specifically Northeast european.

Slavic DNA falls under East European DNA.

[brennus dux gallorum]

let's see a few facts

1)Genetically, albanians are "on border" with Bulgaria, the same time that Greece overlaps Central-Northern and Southern Italy
https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png
2) the predominant racial type among albanians is dinaric race, predominant among south slavs and very common in eastern europe in general, in Greece the mediterranean, the most typical southern type
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Rassenkarte_von_Europa.jpg
3)Linguistically albanian is a satem language with common roots with slavic and baltic, Greek on the other hand is centum, or "western"
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Centum-Satem_modern.png
4)Religion, allahu akhbar, nothing more to say
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Islam_in_Europe_by_Percentage.PNG
5) greece has always been part of the west but the most important it was during the last century, which defines what is still west and what not
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Iron_Curtain_as_described_by_Churchill.PNG

albania on the other hand, allah bless father Stalin


being a slav has much pride, not even need to refer the reasons, and even though both greece and albania have the same amount of slavic ancestry,i have never met anyone to say that there is any benefit about being albanian

sorry girl but i warned you, to be a good girl to Greek members, you are not so I had to post a few facts

[Hoxhaism]

let's see a few facts

1)Genetically, albanians are "on border" with Bulgaria, the same time that Greece overlaps Central-Northern and Southern Italy
https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png
2) the predominant racial type among albanians is dinaric race, predominant among south slavs and very common in eastern europe in general, in Greece the mediterranean, the most typical southern type
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Rassenkarte_von_Europa.jpg
3)Linguistically albanian is a satem language with common roots with slavic and baltic, Greek on the other hand is centum, or "western"
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Centum-Satem_modern.png
4)Religion, allahu akhbar, nothing more to say
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Islam_in_Europe_by_Percentage.PNG
5) greece has always been part of the west but the most important it was during the last century, which defines what is still west and not
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Iron_Curtain_as_described_by_Churchill.PNG

albania on the other hand, allah bless father Stalin


being a slav has much pride, not even need to refer the reasons, and even though both greece and albania have the same amount of slavic ancestry,i have never met anyone to say that there is any benefit about being albanian

1. That was tested on kosovars.
Not albanians like me from south.
Even on that map we have more overlap with greece than bulgaria

and also about religion, people declare themselves a religion but dont care about it and live in peace with everyone.. somthing greece cant brag about...

[King Niko]

Because albania is a fake nation from the caucasus, yall was just like we finna be special.

North Gayreeks have slavic in them, hence WHY I LOOK SLAVIC, i hAve gayreek blood in meh

[brennus dux gallorum]

1. That was tested on kosovars.
Not albanians like me from south.
Even on that map we have more overlap with greece than bulgaria

and also about religion, people declare themselves a religion but dont care about it and live in peace with everyone.. somthing greece cant brag about...

you really need an occulist, where do you see Greece not only overlaping but even being close to bulgaria in the map, Greece overlaps only South and central Italy, Albanian kosovars only overlap bulgaria

https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png

BTW if "south albanians" are so different then why do you still consider yourself part of the same nation with these "inferiors" overlaping Bulgaria?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I'm I the only one, looking at it from a rational perspective ?

Ortodoks Broderhood !
http://65.media.tumblr.com/525e1fed262dbf2213dc925c929f9ffa/tumblr_neba1cjQCk1tm5gyso1_500.png

[Hoxhaism]

you really need an occulist, where do you see Greece not only overlaping but even being close to bulgaria in the map, Greece overlaps only South and central Italy, Albanian kosovars only overlap bulgaria

BTW if "south albanians" are so different then why do you still consider yourself part of the same nation with these "inferiors" overlaping Bulgaria?

inferior? when did i say that?
I'm just saying its obvious to think Kosovo has a bit more slavic DNa

[Hoxhaism]

Because albania is a fake nation from the caucasus, yall was just like we finna be special.

North Gayreeks have slavic in them, hence WHY I LOOK SLAVIC, i hAve gayreek blood in meh

..

[brennus dux gallorum]

inferior? when did i say that?
I'm just saying its obvious to think Kosovo has a bit more slavic DNa

and so, albanians are western , with only a part of them being eastern mixed, or i am wrong?

[King Niko]

..

:)

[Prism]

you really need an occulist, where do you see Greece not only overlaping but even being close to bulgaria in the map, Greece overlaps only South and central Italy, Albanian kosovars only overlap bulgaria

https://i.imgur.com/2ufwMeL.png

BTW if "south albanians" are so different then why do you still consider yourself part of the same nation with these "inferiors" overlaping Bulgaria?

This map is bogus tbh. Hungarians overlapping with Brits? Brits and Irish genetically identical? That's complete bullshit, the Irish are like the Albanians and Greeks (in terms of being native) of the British Isles, they have a very pure Celtic look, unlike the Welsh, English and to a lesser extent the Scottish who are a Germanic-Celtic mix. I can tell apart a Irishman from a Brit easily, they have their own distinct look. Serbians and Montengrins are also different genetically, Montenegrins have much much more EV-13 because they mixed with Albanians.

This plotting map was first posted in my classification thread (as far as I know) and it's been spread all over the forum like the plague.

[brennus dux gallorum]

This map is bogus tbh. Hungarians overlapping with Brits? Brits and Irish genetically identical? That's complete bullshit, the Irish are like the Albanians and Greeks (in terms of being native) of the British Isles, they have a very pure Celtic look, unlike the Welsh, English and to a lesser extent the Scottish who are a Germanic-Celtic mix. I can tell apart a Irishman from a Brit easily, they have their own distinct look. Serbians and Montengrins are also different genetically, Montenegrins have much much more EV-13 because they mixed with Albanians.

This plotting map was first posted in my classification thread (as far as I know) and it's been spread all over the forum like the plague.

there is nothing "bogus" about the map, it's all about the methodology each study follows, and yes hungary is always in the same quadrant in all autosomal researches with the countries overlaping here.

the only sure is that as I said Albanians are toughing Bulgaria, Greece overlaps tuscany and South Italy being almost distant from Bulgaria

[Yggdrasil]

Slavic DNA falls under East European DNA.

Slavs aren't 100% eastern european just like Germanic peoples & Celts aren't 100% northwest european.

Not all eastern european admixture falls under the category of Slavs as well.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Slavs aren't 100% eastern european just like Germanic peoples & Celts aren't 100% northwest european.

Not all eastern european admixture falls under the category of Slavs as well.

In fact all this autosomal DNA in Europe is pre-IE, otherwise autosomal maps would look muuuch different

[Yggdrasil]

This map is bogus tbh. Hungarians overlapping with Brits? Brits and Irish genetically identical? That's complete bullshit, the Irish are like the Albanians and Greeks (in terms of being native) of the British Isles, they have a very pure Celtic look, unlike the Welsh, English and to a lesser extent the Scottish who are a Germanic-Celtic mix. I can tell apart a Irishman from a Brit easily, they have their own distinct look. Serbians and Montengrins are also different genetically, Montenegrins have much much more EV-13 because they mixed with Albanians.

This plotting map was first posted in my classification thread (as far as I know) and it's been spread all over the forum like the plague.

Most of these PCA plots seem to show that Europeans are closer than we would like to admit.

I disagree with your statement that the Welsh and the Scottish are Celto-germanic mixes though. As far as i know, Anglo-saxons never settled in Wales and they only settled in a small part of Scotland.
Irish people don't really look that drastically different from Brits either.

[Prism]

there is nothing "bogus" about the map, it's all about the methodology each study follows, and yes hungary is always in the same quadrant in all autosomal researches with the countries overlaping here.

the only sure is that as I said Albanians are toughing Bulgaria, Greece overlaps tuscany and South Italy being almost distant from Bulgaria

It's bogus.

Yeah and with Jews and Kosovars.

[Yggdrasil]

In fact all this autosomal DNA in Europe is pre-IE, otherwise autosomal maps would look muuuch different

Ancient genomes tend to suggest that Eastern europe & Northern europe (Including the British isles) experienced a 70% Late Neolithic/Bronze age replacement which mirrors the arrival of Indo-european speaking folks.

What do you mean by "otherwise autosomal maps would look muuuch different"?

[brennus dux gallorum]

It's bogus.

Yeah and with Jews and Kosovars.

whatever you, say, as long as it is not disputed by any scientific article it is still an official source, no matters if you like it or not.

BTW where are you from?

[Hellenas]

do you really trust maps you find on the internet?

It's your problem if you don't know how much Africans you are, not mine.


Greece has a long history of Persion, Turks Arabs and Egyptians.

You forgot that the Germans during WWII put foot on Greece, lol! There are not any evidence that Greeks ever mixed with Persians, Arabs, Turks or Egyprians.


The only out of these people that have historically stepped foot on Albania were Turks who from out of all those choices are the whitest imo

Turks are not whites, Turks are semi-Asians, out-Europeans, most are Armenoids, but neither Albanians are mixed with them. Also the Slavs invaded Albania along with Avars(a Mongolid people) but neither you ever mixed with Mongoloids.

Nice try to slander Greeks but you failed.

You are more Africans in genes than Greeks, nothing can change that. :bored:

Every time you will try to slander the Greeks you will get that:

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

Albanians the most African admixed people on the Balkans.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Ancient genomes tend to suggest that Eastern europe & Northern europe (Including the British isles) experienced a 70% Late Neolithic/Bronze age replacement which mirrors the arrival of Indo-european speaking folks.

What do you mean by "otherwise autosomal maps would look muuuch different"?

that they would be identical to linguistic maps, and as we know they are not.

[Yggdrasil]

that they would be identical to linguistic maps, and as we know they are not.

Multiple linguistic groups can share the same type of genetic cluster despite being ethnically different.
For example just because Irish and Dutch are genetically mostly NW european doesn't make them non Celtic or non Germanic.

[Prism]

whatever you, say, as long as it is not disputed by any scientific article it is still an official source, no matters if you like it or not.

BTW where are you from?

Man how on Earth is this official?? It was made by some guy on this forum.

Why is it relevant? I'm from Kosovo but I'm mixed.

[Prism]

Double post.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Man how on Earth is this official?? It was made by some guy on this forum.

Why is it relevant? I'm from Kosovo but I'm mixed.

:picard1:

it's not from this forum

[brennus dux gallorum]

Man how on Earth is this official?? It was made by some guy on this forum.

Why is it relevant? I'm from Kosovo but I'm mixed.
:picard1:
it's not from this forum

not to mention that no autosomal diagram shows anything different

[Faklon]

If I see brennus dux gallorum aka koligos spamming again another low-tier admixture map made by either Maciamo or forum member blubb, next stop is Farsala. Remember this.

[brennus dux gallorum]

If I see brennus dux gallorum aka koligos spamming again another low-tier admixture map made by Maciamo or forum member blubb, next stop is Farsala. Remember this.

Oh, I feel so scared:D

but to be honest i am not planning to stop 3ka-2la-1ma

[Prism]

:picard1:
it's not from this forum

not to mention that no autosomal diagram shows anything different

It was made by blubb, PK is right.

How old are you? You seem to have the naive/unexperienced mind of an infant.

[Hoxhaism]

It's your problem if you don't know how much Africans you are, not mine.



You forgot that the Germans during WWII put foot on Greece, lol! There are not any evidence that Greeks ever mixed with Persians, Arabs, Turks or Egyprians.



Turks are not whites, Turks are semi-Asians, out-Europeans, most are Armenoids, but neither Albanians are mixed with them. Also the Slavs invaded Albania along with Avars(a Mongolid people) but neither you ever mixed with Mongoloids.

Nice try to slander Greeks but you failed.

You are more Africans in genes than Greeks, nothing can change that. :bored:

Every time you will try to slander the Greeks you will get that:

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

Albanians the most African admixed people on the Balkans.

albanians were never invaded by mongolid people, stop making up crap.

[brennus dux gallorum]

It was made by blubb, PK is right.

How old are you? You seem to have the naive/unexperienced mind of an infant.

let me guess you are a developmental psychologist,there's no better explanation about your talent to distinguish infant behavior :D

all autosomal diagrams show the exacly same things, except of those that do not include kosovars or albanians:D:D

http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/images/genetics/novembre-fig1a.png

how many "albanias" can you see closer to Italy than Greece to italy and how many "Greeces" can you see closer to bulgaria than albania to Bulgaria. Kosovo has not participated in the particular study but i guess it's even closer to Bulgaria

I may be an infant but you on contrary are a nobelist ;)

[Hoxhaism]

It was made by blubb, PK is right.

How old are you? You seem to have the naive/unexperienced mind of an infant.

+1

[Wrong]

Neither Albanians nor Greeks score SSA admixture. Cut the crap with these shit maps.

You're using old plotting maps rather than the new ones out there.


Actual African admixture map

http://i.imgur.com/Bi4lpeN.png

[Hoxhaism]

let me guess you are a developmental psychologist,there's no better explanation about your talent to distinguish infant behavior :D

all autosomal diagrams show the exacly same things, except of those that do not include kosovars or albanians:D:D

http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/images/genetics/novembre-fig1a.png

how many "albanias" can you see closer to Italy than Greece to italy and how many "Greeces" can you see closer to bulgaria than albania to Bulgaria. Kosovo has not participated in the particular study but i guess it's even closer to Bulgaria

I may be an infant but you on contrary are a nobelist ;)

on that map albania clusters more with greece.
Also take into note that Macedonians have more Ancient Macedonian admixture that was similar to illyrian (they are still predominantly slavs) which is why they are the slavs we cluster most with from this map.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Neither Albanians nor Greeks score SSA admixture. Cut the crap with these shit maps.

You're using old plotting maps rather than the new ones out there.


Actual African admixture map

http://i.imgur.com/Bi4lpeN.png

no matters if the "old plotting maps" have not been replaced or considered outdated, can you show me even one map showing the opposite of what Hellenas supports?

[brennus dux gallorum]

on that map albania clusters more with greece.
Also take into note that Macedonians have more Ancient Macedonian admixture that was similar to illyrian (they are still predominantly slavs) which is why they are the slavs we cluster most with from this map.

does this change the fact that Albania still cluster most with South slavs and Greece with italy (except of North)?

also do i have to remind you your #61 post? ;)

[Wrong]

no matters if the "old plotting maps" have not been replaced or considered outdated, can you show me even one map showing the opposite of what Hellenas supports?
The plotting map you linked is faulty for every ethnicity and is overshadowed by spammy texts replacing the other, not sure what you want to prove. Tuscans aren't exactly a great "western proxy". French are in the better direction of a western cline.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QJs5tV0H3t4/VIwY7BlNxyI/AAAAAAAAByQ/LakjgsBYRNc/s1600/2dkweaw.jpg

[Hoxhaism]

does this change the fact that Albania still cluster most with South slavs and Greece with italy (except of North)?

also do i have to remind you your #61 post? ;)

no.
Why should i trust a map without any reliable evidence?
Myself personally i think i could only pass in central italy apart from albania, too western looking for greece and south slav countries, and i've noticed this with other albanians.

[Wrong]

does this change the fact that Albania still cluster most with South slavs and Greece with italy (except of North)?

also do i have to remind you your #61 post? ;)

Bulgarians aren't that eastern plotting themselves, they go on a northern cline. Many Bulgarians plot really northwestwards.

[brennus dux gallorum]

no.
Why should i trust a map without any reliable evidence?
Myself personally i think i could only pass in central italy apart from albania, too western looking for greece and south slav countries, and i've noticed this with other albanians.

Nobody really cares about if you personaly consider the map as a "reliable evidence", anything in science that has not been replaced by something new is considered accurate and reliable

as for the last you say, 70% of Greeks could pass as 60% of Italians, unlike Albania where it's only 15%. 75% of albanians on the other hand are anthropologically the same with South slavs

[Wrong]

Hoxhaism is a highly confused, young girl who should quit posting on TA. While Hellenas is a lost relic of age 45 and Brennux reeks of autism.

[Hoxhaism]

Nobody really cares about if you personaly consider the map as a "reliable evidence", anything in science that has not been replaced by something new is considered accurate and reliable

as for the last you say, 70% of Greeks could pass as 60% of Italians, unlike Albania where it's only 15%. 75% of albanians on the other hand are anthropologically the same with South slavs

i've honestly seen greeks who look slavic with dark pigmentation, never this look on an albanian.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Hoxhaism is a highly confused, young girl. While Hellenas is 45 and Brennux reeks of autism.

all albanians here are highly confused, and as i can see they either can not understand what they read or when they do understand they call them "faulty" or "non reliable"

[brennus dux gallorum]

i've honestly seen greeks who look slavic with dark pigmentation, never this look on an albanian.

this is actually how 75% of albanians look like (dinaric), if by slavic look you mean how south slavs look. IF you mean how proto-slavs look, we do not even know how they looked like.

yet no albanian can pass as western

[Hoxhaism]

this is actually how 75% of albanians look like (dinaric), if by slavic look you mean how south slavs look. IF you mean how proto-slavs look, we do not even know how they looked like.

yet no albanian can pass as western

Dinaric is absent in south slavs.

[Faklon]

Oh, I feel so scared:D

but to be honest i am not planning to stop 3ka-2la-1ma

WE ARE COMING FOR YOU PELASGIAN INCEL


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYm3mxdgxiU

Retard, understand that the maps you are posting are made in MS paint by random forumers using outdated calculators and partly their own imagination. What is the West Asian/Atlantic/Red sea man?

Here are some PCA plots from professionals studies using theorized fundamental sources such as farmers, hunter-gatherers and proto-IE( Lara M. Cassidy - Rui Martiniano et al., Jones et al., Iain Mathieson et al., Zuzana Hofmanová - Susanne Kreutzer et al.)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JfgKsVo0O5M/VoG4-5v6wcI/AAAAAAAAKN8/rT-ik1ORFDA/s1600/cassidy.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OQjovXBnIK0/VknYxQ5FkSI/AAAAAAAAKM8/49uS0aE0Nj8/s1600/ncomms9912-f1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ePvS7XQ-WOo/Vlc6nJS6W6I/AAAAAAAAKNU/l78HMVe4wg4/s1600/mathieson.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fc2W-6tR-HA/Urigqts3hwI/AAAAAAAAJbg/hqZiV1TOGgc/s1600/europe.png

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oHvioYNksrk/V1bkvbxcL1I/AAAAAAAAKTw/utj1T2h2qQsF4zbCo8t9pygjNdFtKKJmQCLcB/s1600/F2.large.jpg

Still, doesn't tell anything about actual admixture for which we need specifically dated halpogroups and ibd shares. Why can't you retard(s) understand this simple thing?

All we have for Greece is Underhill et al. 2009 (http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2009/11/finally-structure-in-haplogroup-r1a.html) suggesting some 11-12% early Slavic admixture in Greece as a whole by dating R-M458 not that late in time and using South Poland as the source.

We don't have anything specific for Albania to compare at the moment, but there are plenty of Slavic toponyms there (as in Greece).

http://www.kroraina.com/seli_sna/selish_slavicnames2.gif

[Wrong]

this is actually how 75% of albanians look like (dinaric), if by slavic look you mean how south slavs look. IF you mean how proto-slavs look, we do not even know how they looked like.

yet no albanian can pass as western
Your posts are estrogenic. "no albanian can pass as western"

Man, you have the hormonal profile of a teenage girl!

[Faklon]

Nobody really cares about if you personaly consider the map as a "reliable evidence", anything in science that has not been replaced by something new is considered accurate and reliable

as for the last you say, 70% of Greeks could pass as 60% of Italians, unlike Albania where it's only 15%. 75% of albanians on the other hand are anthropologically the same with South slavs

FUCK OFF SIKELIOT

[brennus dux gallorum]

Dinaric is absent in south slavs.

:picard2:


only 75% among the majority of South slavic nations

[Hoxhaism]

:picard2:


only 75% among the majority of South slavic nations

Wrong.

[Wrong]

:picard2:


only 75% among the majority of South slavic nations

South Slavs rarely have flattened occipital Dinarid skulls nowadays. They are long-headed, especially the younger generation.
The more you radiate from there towards Albania, the more Dinarid is to be found.

Also, there are German, Italian, Austrian, French Dinarids aswell. Keltid Nordids and East Nordids look psuedo-Dinarid/Noric.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Wrong.
:picard2:
source?

[Hoxhaism]

:picard2:
source?

South Slavic

[brennus dux gallorum]

South Slavic

yes, and your source that the percentage is wrong?

[Faklon]

AS NOTED IN MY OWN ANTHROTARD FORUM AND USING THE ALPHA DOM SLAYER LAWRENCE ANGEL AS THE SOURCE, 14-15% OF MYCENAEAN NOBLES FROM GRAVE CIRCLE B WERE PURE DINARICS AND ANOTHER 9-10% WERE DINARIC INFLUENCED INCLUDING A TYPE THAT LAWRENCE NAMES EAST BALKAN DINAROID/F3.

[brennus dux gallorum]

South Slavic

yes, and your source that the percentage is wrong?

cause all sources refer albania and south slavs as the core dinaric populations in europe

[Hellenas]

albanians were never invaded by mongolid people, stop making up crap.

Hmm, history is crap...Well, the Eurasian Avars along with Slavs invaded both Balkans and Albania.

The Avars in the Balkans

These large scale population movements are associated with the arrival to the area of the Avars, a nomadic Turkic group that had lost a war against other nomads further east, and settled in the Carpathian basin, subjugating the many small Slavic tribes.[11]

The Avars and their Slavic allies tended to focus on the western Balkans, whilst independent Slavic tribes predominated in the east. Following the unsuccessful siege of Constantinople in 626, the Avars' reputation diminished, and the confederacy was troubled by civil wars between the Avars and their Bulgar and Slav clients.[16] Their rule contracted to the region of the Carpathian basin. Archaeological evidence show that there was intermixing of Slavic, Avar and even Gepid cultures, suggesting that the later Avars were an amalgamation of different peoples.

A combined effort of the Avars and Slavs two years later also failed to take the city. In 626, a combined Avar, Bulgar and Slav army besieged Constantinople.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavs


The Avars in the Balkans

Not only have these excavations awakened interest in the study of the early Middle Ages, but they have fully disclosed the great importance of the Avar Kingdom.

The best examples of gold have been found in Vrap (Albania), together with decorated silver vessels now in the Metropolitan Museum in New York. Avar art had a great influence on the art of the Croats, for example the moulds from Biskupija in Dalmatia.1

http://www.ascsa.edu.gr/pdf/uploads/hesperia/146519.pdf


Pannonian Avars

The Pannonian Avars /ˈævɑːrz/ also known as the Obri (in Ruthenian chronicles), the Abaroi and Varchonitai (Warhonits) (in Byzantine sources),[1] and the "Pseudo-Avars" and Varchonites (by the Göktürks), were a group of Eurasian nomads of unknown origins[2][3][4][5][6] during the early Middle Ages.[7]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Avaric_-_Drinking_Bowl_-_Walters_57565_-_Profile.jpg/250px-Avaric_-_Drinking_Bowl_-_Walters_57565_-_Profile.jpg

Gold Avar bowl, found in modern Albania.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f7/75/46/f775460ca354cb45a59d71fc7eed3813.jpg

Gold belt fittings, Avar culture (modern day Albania). 8th century CE.

https://gr.pinterest.com/tamrosa/pannonian-avars-6th-9th-c/

Origin of the Albanians

Archaeological evidence

However, assemblages also have many "barbarian" artefacts, such as Slavic bow-fibulae, Avar-styled belt mounts and Carolingian glass vessels.[98][99]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kXuefqF3xdw/UuK2T5AXksI/AAAAAAAA_FA/Edr-gmZiX-A/s1600/11avar.jpg
Left to right - Slavic peasant, Avar warrior and Avar nobleman approx. 7th century AD.

The Siege of Sirmium and The Invasion of the Avars
http://byzantinemilitary.blogspot.gr/2014/02/the-siege-of-sirmium-and-invasion-of.html

[Hellenas]

Neither Albanians nor Greeks score SSA admixture. Cut the crap with these shit maps.

You're using old plotting maps rather than the new ones out there.


Actual African admixture map

http://i.imgur.com/Bi4lpeN.png

It does not include Albania. This map made by Vasconcelos, based on Eurogenes results though, but it does not include Albania.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?107339-Espa%F1a-en-los-mapas-gen%E9ticos&p=3277149&viewfull=1#post3277149


Cut the crap with these shit maps.

The world already knows your the most Afromixed Balkanians.

[wvwvw]

It does not include Albania. This map made by Vasconcelos, based on Eurogenes results though, but it does not include Albania.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?107339-Espa%F1a-en-los-mapas-gen%E9ticos&p=3277149&viewfull=1#post3277149



The world already knows your the most Afromixed Balkanians.

Hellenas if you dna teated how Slavic and East Asian would ypu score. I think less than 10%;

[Wrong]

It does not include Albania. This map made by Vasconcelos, based on Eurogenes results though, but it does not include Albania.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?107339-Espa%F1a-en-los-mapas-gen%E9ticos&p=3277149&viewfull=1#post3277149



The world already knows your the most Afromixed Balkanians.

Kosovo which is full of Albanians = 0% = Albania


45 year old butthurt relic of the past got rekt.

Half-Arab, give me your Gedmatch kit number so I can compare both of our results.

[Hellenas]

Hellenas if you dna teated how Slavic and East Asian would ypu score. I think less than 10%;

Isn't me just a swarthy Greek according to you that multiple time you have spam my inbox with insulting and trolling pms? Why now you want to talk with me? I have no words with you girl.

Nothing visible East Euro or East Asian to me though, typical south-East European Mediterranid.

[Wrong]

Isn't me just a swarthy Greek according to you that multiple time you have spam my inbox with insulting and trolling pms? Why now you want to talk with me? I have no words with you girl.

Nothing visible East Euro or East Asian to me though, typical south-East European Mediterranid.
Half-Arab Sikelotid, give me your Gedmatch kit number so I can compare both of our results.

[Hellenas]

Kosovo which is full of Albanians = 0% = Albania


45 year old butthurt relic of the past got rekt.

Kosovo is not Albania. Go on, insult as much as you want.

Distribution of the African admixture in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes'

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2].

2. Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/greekmtdna/

[Hellenas]

Half-Arab Sikelotid, give me your Gedmatch kit number so I can compare both of our results.






I haven't made any DNA test, I have no insecurities dear Negralbo.

[Hellenas]

African admixture in Europe

Haplogroup L lineages are relatively infrequent (1% or less) throughout Europe. According to a study in 2012 by Cerezo et al., about 65% of the European L lineages most likely arrived in rather recent historical times (Romanization period, Arab conquest of the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily, Atlantic slave trade) and about 35% of L mtDNAs form European-specific subclades, revealing that there was gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa toward Europe as early as 11,000 yr ago.[30]

Albania 2.38% Belledi et al. (2000)

Greece 0.99% Achilli et al. (2007)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe#Haplogroup_L_lineages_ frequencies

[Hellenas]

You little girl, I haven't send you a PM in ages. Ότι θυμάσαι χαίρεσαι πάλι μαλακισμένε

Lol, I probably have the age of your father, that's how you speak to your father, that's the upbringing your family gave to you? Now I understand from what kind of home you came.

You call all others as gypsies but once again you confuse others with your self, as you behave and insult worse than any gypsy. :icon_yes:

Lol, Raine...

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2292/1135/1600/PAO.jpg

[Wrong]

African admixture in Europe

Haplogroup L lineages are relatively infrequent (1% or less) throughout Europe. According to a study in 2012 by Cerezo et al., about 65% of the European L lineages most likely arrived in rather recent historical times (Romanization period, Arab conquest of the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily, Atlantic slave trade) and about 35% of L mtDNAs form European-specific subclades, revealing that there was gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa toward Europe as early as 11,000 yr ago.[30]

Albania 2.38% Belledi et al. (2000)

Greece 0.99% Achilli et al. (2007)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe#Haplogroup_L_lineages_ frequencies

LULZ @ admixture map based on 1 L mt-dna haplogroup sample found.

Haplogroup L is not African and exists even in Finland at 2%. It's simply an Ancient marker in Europe, as old if not older than EV13.
Plus it was the only sample out of 42 Albanians opposed to the 202 Greeks who were tested. You should know by simple math that percentages do diminish.

Lulz @ using Dienekes as the only source, just by reading the comparisons you can tell he is biased like hell.

I myself am fully Albanian and I have zero % African. Most likely shifting further away from Africa than you do, Hellenas.

[Hellenas]

Haplogroup L is not African and exists even in Finland at 2%. It's simply an Ancient marker in Europe, as old if not older than EV13.
Plus it was the only sample out of 42 Albanians opposed to the 202 Greeks who were tested. You should know by simple math that percentages do diminish.

Lulz @ using Dienekes as the only source, just by reading the comparisons you can tell he is biased like hell.

These are your own stories about Haplogroup L.

[Wrong]

These are your own stories about Haplogroup L.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20



Highest frequencies
South Asians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asians), Burusho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burusho_people), Kalash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash_people),Pashtuns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people), Tamil Kallars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kallar_(caste)), Afshar village (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afshar_tribe),Al-Raqqah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Raqqah), east Balochistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balochistan_(Pakistan)), northernAfghanistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan), Chechens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_people), South Tyrol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Tyrol)




Straight from the source.
Now shit yourself again, 45 year old failed relic of the past

[Wrong]

Could use the same logic for haplogroup-T that peaks in Somali-Dravidia, but a greek user Rottengreek/Thevillager carries it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg/1280px-Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg.png

[Hellenas]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20



Highest frequencies
South Asians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asians), Burusho (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burusho_people), Kalash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash_people),Pashtuns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people), Tamil Kallars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kallar_(caste)), Afshar village (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afshar_tribe),Al-Raqqah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Raqqah), east Balochistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balochistan_(Pakistan)), northernAfghanistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan), Chechens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_people), South Tyrol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Tyrol)




Straight from the source.

That's only about Haplogroup L-M2O.

Not about that:

Albania 2.38% Belledi et al. (2000)

Haplogroup L lineages are relatively infrequent (1% or less) throughout Europe with the exception of Iberia where frequencies as high as 22% have been reported and some regions of Italy where frequencies as high as 2% and 3% have been found. According to a study in 2012 by Cerezo et al., about 65% of the European L lineages most likely arrived in rather recent historical times (Romanization period, Arab conquest of the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily, Atlantic slave trade) and about 35% of L mtDNAs form European-specific subclades, revealing that there was gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa toward Europe as early as 11,000 yr ago.[30]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe#mtDNA

It cames with Arabs, the slaves trade and sub-Saharan Africans.

[Wrong]

That's only about Haplogroup L-M2O.

Not about that:

Albania 2.38% Belledi et al. (2000)

Haplogroup L lineages are relatively infrequent (1% or less) throughout Europe with the exception of Iberia where frequencies as high as 22% have been reported and some regions of Italy where frequencies as high as 2% and 3% have been found. According to a study in 2012 by Cerezo et al., about 65% of the European L lineages most likely arrived in rather recent historical times (Romanization period, Arab conquest of the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily, Atlantic slave trade) and about 35% of L mtDNAs form European-specific subclades, revealing that there was gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa toward Europe as early as 11,000 yr ago.[30]

It cames with Arabs, the slaves trade and sub-Saharan Africans.

My point is valid, you can't base admixture on an mtdna or y-dna haplogroup that has been in Europe for 9000+ years. Check its dated TMRCA downstream, you have no knowledge of how FTDNA functions. African autosomal is 0%.
204 greek samples vs 42 Albanian ones, the Greek samples diminish due to a greater sample size.

Keep sperging, old man.

[Hellenas]

Could use the same logic for haplogroup-T that peaks in Somali-Dravidia, but a greek user Rottengreek/Thevillager carries it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg/1280px-Distribution_Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA_II.svg.png

It's not African and didn't came from Arabs, the slave trade and sub-saharan Africans.

Haplogroup T (Y-DNA)

The modern distribution T in Europe strongly correlates with a the Neolithic colonisation of Mediterranean Europe by Near-Eastern farmers, notably the Cardium Pottery culture (5000-1500 BCE). Its frequency mirrors that haplogroup J1 in Europe as well, both haplogroups being most common in the mountainous parts of the Balkans, the central and southern Apennines in Italy, Sicily, the Massif Central in France (Auvergne), and south-western Iberia. All these regions would have been better suited for goat and sheep herding than for cereal cultivation in the Neolithic period. Mountainous regions allow herders to practice transhumance, i.e. the seasonal movement of people with their livestock between fixed summer and winter pastures.

During the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age haplogroup T would have been an important (though probably not dominant) lineage among ancient peoples such as Sumerians, the Babylonians and the Assyrians.

While almost all subclades of T are found in the Middle East, most Europeans outside the Mediterranean belong to the subclades T1a2 (L131) and T1a1a1a (P77), which are also found in Anatolia. These subclades probably represent one of the Neolithic migration from the Fertile Crescent to Southeast Europe. They would then have spread around central and Eastern Europe, as far north as the eastern Baltic. T1a2 has been found as far east as the Volga-Ural region of Russia and Xinjiang in north-west China. This branch probably penetrated into the Pontic-Caspian Steppe during the Neolithic (perhaps alongside G2a3b1 and J2b2) and became integrated to the indigenous R1a peoples before their expansion to Central Asia during the Bronze Age (=> see R1a-Z93).

Haplogroup T has been found at a relatively high frequency among the Tatars (5%) and Maris (2%) of the Volga-Ural region as well as in north-west Russia (3%) and Estonia (3.5%) suggesting that it may have been one of the principal lineages bringing the Neolithic to Uralic-speaking population. Autosomal DNA tests have also identified unusually high percentages of Southwest Asian admixtures among the Finns (1 to 2.5%) and Lithuanians (1.5%), who otherwise lack West Asian or Caucasian admixture and possess hardly any Middle Eastern Y-DNA. This Southwest Asian admixture could be the trace of T lineages absorbed during the Neolithic.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

[Wrong]

It's not African and didn't came from Arabs, the slave trade and sub-saharan Africans.

Haplogroup T (Y-DNA)

The modern distribution T in Europe strongly correlates with a the Neolithic colonisation of Mediterranean Europe by Near-Eastern farmers, notably the Cardium Pottery culture (5000-1500 BCE). Its frequency mirrors that haplogroup J1 in Europe as well, both haplogroups being most common in the mountainous parts of the Balkans, the central and southern Apennines in Italy, Sicily, the Massif Central in France (Auvergne), and south-western Iberia. All these regions would have been better suited for goat and sheep herding than for cereal cultivation in the Neolithic period. Mountainous regions allow herders to practice transhumance, i.e. the seasonal movement of people with their livestock between fixed summer and winter pastures.

During the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age haplogroup T would have been an important (though probably not dominant) lineage among ancient peoples such as Sumerians, the Babylonians and the Assyrians.

While almost all subclades of T are found in the Middle East, most Europeans outside the Mediterranean belong to the subclades T1a2 (L131) and T1a1a1a (P77), which are also found in Anatolia. These subclades probably represent one of the Neolithic migration from the Fertile Crescent to Southeast Europe. They would then have spread around central and Eastern Europe, as far north as the eastern Baltic. T1a2 has been found as far east as the Volga-Ural region of Russia and Xinjiang in north-west China. This branch probably penetrated into the Pontic-Caspian Steppe during the Neolithic (perhaps alongside G2a3b1 and J2b2) and became integrated to the indigenous R1a peoples before their expansion to Central Asia during the Bronze Age (=> see R1a-Z93).

Haplogroup T has been found at a relatively high frequency among the Tatars (5%) and Maris (2%) of the Volga-Ural region as well as in north-west Russia (3%) and Estonia (3.5%) suggesting that it may have been one of the principal lineages bringing the Neolithic to Uralic-speaking population. Autosomal DNA tests have also identified unusually high percentages of Southwest Asian admixtures among the Finns (1 to 2.5%) and Lithuanians (1.5%), who otherwise lack West Asian or Caucasian admixture and possess hardly any Middle Eastern Y-DNA. This Southwest Asian admixture could be the trace of T lineages absorbed during the Neolithic.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

Eurogenes, Dienekes and other biased authors are not to be taken seriously and I simply gave a counter-argument using your failed logic.

FTDNA is the only thing that matters where one can see their actual matches through their own haplogroup.

Perhaps you are not a Greek, but a gypsy which is why you haven't tested in any of the services.

[Hellenas]

My point is valid, you can't base admixture on an mtdna or y-dna haplogroup that has been in Europe for 9000+ years. Check its dated TMRCA downstream, you have no knowledge of how FTDNA functions. African autosomal is 0%.
204 greek samples vs 42 Albanian ones, the Greek samples diminish due to a greater sample size.

Get that again.

Distribution of the African admixture in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

The most comprehensive European-wide study of mtDNA is [1] in which 125 Greeks were sampled among thousands of Europeans. The Greeks and the Albanians appear in the "Mediterranean-East" category of the study. Greeks tested belonged overwhelmingly to the Caucasoid-specific haplogroups ("Seven Daughters of Eve" popularized by Bryan Sykes'

The "erratic" sequences include a Sub-Saharan African (L1a) sequence, which was derived from the Albanian part of the sample [2].

2. Michele Belledi et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations, European Journal of Human Genetics, 8, 480 - 486 (01 Jul 2000)

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/greekmtdna/


Keep sperging, old man.

Your complaints το Michele Belledi, Dienekes and the Eupedia, not to me.

Old man? Is someone 40 years old an old man, aren't you just a boy? Lol and what is Sylvester Stallone you use to your avatar, a mummy? Lol!

Go drink your milk boy.

[Hellenas]

Eurogenes, Dienekes and other biased authors are not to be taken seriously and I simply gave a counter-argument using your failed logic.

FTDNA is the only thing that matters where one can see their actual matches through their own haplogroup.

Perhaps you are not a Greek, but a gypsy which is why you haven't tested in any of the services.

Your complaints το Michele Belledi, Dienekes and the Eupedia, not to me.


Perhaps you are not a Greek, but a gypsy

As I use to say to all trolls, I am just an African. :D

[Wrong]

Your complaints το Michele Belledi, Dienekes and the Eupedia, not to me.



As I use to say to all trolls, I am just an African. :D

Perhaps you are :D

http://i.imgur.com/XLG0FcZ.png

Go fetch your biased compatriot Dienekes

[Hellenas]

Perhaps you are :D

http://i.imgur.com/XLG0FcZ.png

Go fetch your biased compatriot Dienekes

Cry me a river and so to Michele Belledi, Dienekes and the Eupedia.

[Wrong]

Cry me a river and so to Michele Belledi, Dienekes and the Eupedia.
Don't worry, I score 0% African. I'm betting your % is only higher.

You mentioned Stallone being an old mummy.. Well, at 70 he kicks your wimpy 45year old ass.

[Hellenas]

Don't worry, I score 0% African. I'm betting your % is only higher.

Don't worry, Albanians have more than any other Balkanian.


You mentioned Stallone being an old mummy.. Well, at 70 he kicks your wimpy 45year old ass.

I mentioned Stallone because you said that someone who is 45 years old is an old men(I am not of that age) and I asked if you consider Stallone you have to your avatar a mummy then. Low IQ detected. Don't worry, I was a fan of Stallone since my childhood and I'm sure that if he knew a buttkid like you used his photo to troll other peoples he would give you two slaps to the ass.

[Queen B]

and also about religion, people declare themselves a religion but dont care about it and live in peace with everyone.. somthing greece cant brag about...
Who says that?

[Laberia]

It's your problem if you don't know how much Africans you are, not mine.



You forgot that the Germans during WWII put foot on Greece, lol! There are not any evidence that Greeks ever mixed with Persians, Arabs, Turks or Egyprians.



Turks are not whites, Turks are semi-Asians, out-Europeans, most are Armenoids, but neither Albanians are mixed with them. Also the Slavs invaded Albania along with Avars(a Mongolid people) but neither you ever mixed with Mongoloids.

Nice try to slander Greeks but you failed.

You are more Africans in genes than Greeks, nothing can change that. :bored:

Every time you will try to slander the Greeks you will get that:

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif

Albanians the most African admixed people on the Balkans.

You pretend that Albanians are the most African admixed people on the Balkans. To illustrate this you have posted this map. The source of this map is Eupedia, a forum. Who is/are the author(s) of this map?
Appart this genetic map, do you have other sources from other scientific disciplines to support your theory?
Also i have to remember you that according to primary historical sources, Greece was invaded, among others, from slavs and avars and as a result of this invasion, the ancient greeks were wiped.

[Yggdrasil]

Neither Albanians nor Greeks score SSA admixture. Cut the crap with these shit maps.

You're using old plotting maps rather than the new ones out there.


Actual African admixture map

http://i.imgur.com/Bi4lpeN.png

This is a bit off topic, but what's up with that 0,5-0,8% SSA admixture in Northeast russia?! :laugh:

[Antimage]

This is a bit off topic, but what's up with that 0,5-0,8% SSA admixture in Northeast russia?! :laugh:

It seems Mari scores 0,76% SSA https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

[Yggdrasil]

It seems Mari scores 0,76% SSA https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

Yeah, but they live in Central Russia near the Volga river.

It's weird that such an isolated area as Northeastern Russia has a (relatively) high degree of SSA admixture compared to their geographic neighbors.

[Antimage]

Yeah, but they live in Central Russia near the Volga river.

It's weird that such an isolated area as Northeastern Russia has a (relatively) high degree of SSA admixture compared to their geographic neighbors.

Chuvash score 0,48% ssa, karelians score 0,53%, Komi score 0,57%, "Russia Arkhangelsk" score 0,8%(although 1 guy was tested there). Not a big deal imo.

[revealman]

byzantine empire, how do you think slavs got converted to orthodox christianity...

[catgeorge]

byzantine empire, how do you think slavs got converted to orthodox christianity...

Slavs had their own liturgy - they didn't have the Greek one, albeit there are rare records they would come to Greek liturgy and we accepted them. Bulgarians and South Slavs occupied areas in Greece for no more than 50 years in combination so the genetic imprint would be ridiculously negligent - the imprint would be the other way with Greco-Roman settlers in the Balkans. (thousands of years of settlement in comparison to a handful of decades)

[Laberia]

Slavs had their own liturgy - they didn't have the Greek one, albeit there are rare records they would come to Greek liturgy and we accepted them. Bulgarians and South Slavs occupied areas in Greece for no more than 50 years in combination so the genetic imprint would be ridiculously negligent - the imprint would be the other way with Greco-Roman settlers in the Balkans. (thousands of years of settlement in comparison to a handful of decades)

Without taking away anything to the genius of ancient greeks, compared with the other nations of ancient Balcan like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, the greeks were just a small and insignificant group to imprint in the genetic of the peninsula.
With Romans the discussion is totally different. The roman penetration in the Balkans, was capillary.
Manwhile with the slavs in Greece, the situation was another. The slavs wiped out the ancient hellenes. From that moment the ancient greeks ceased to exist.

[Hellenas]

You pretend that Albanians are the most African admixed people on the Balkans. To illustrate this you have posted this map. The source of this map is Eupedia, a forum. Who is/are the author(s) of this map?

The following maps were created based on the data from the Dodecad Project and Eurogenes.


Appart this genetic map, do you have other sources from other scientific disciplines to support your theory?

Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations

The other 10 HV1 sequences are unique to Albanians. With the only exception of sequence 22, which matches the L1a African haplogroup HVI motifs, the other Albanian sequences clearly display the nucleotide substitution pattern described in Europe.24

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v8/n7/pdf/5200443a.pdf


Haplogroup L1 (mtDNA)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Interpolation_maps_for_L1_haplogroup_total.png
Projected spatial distribution of haplogroup L1 in Africa.

Haplogroup L1 is a human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup. It is most common in Central and West Africa.

Haplogroup L1 is found most commonly in Central Africa and West Africa. It reaches its highest frequency among the Mbenga Pygmies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L1_(mtDNA)

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6149/5934952588_9701fc2b1e_z.jpg
Baka people (Mbenga pygmies).

The oldest lineage is the African L1a group.

http://www.mamiwata.com/africanmtDNA.pdf

Haplogroup L1 is found in West and Central sub-Saharan Africa. Some of its branches (L1d, L1k, L1a, L1f) were recently re-classified into haplogroup L0 as L0d, L0k, L0a and L0f.

http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_L1_(mtDNA)

Several mtDNA markers have been proposed as signals of Bantu dispersals, although often in the absence of any southern Bantu data. Bandelt et al. (1995) and Chen et al. (1995) suggested haplogroup L1a, part of which (defined by a 9-bp intergenic deletion) was confirmed as an important eastern Bantu marker by Soodyall et al. (1996).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC385086/


It gives to Albanian women this look.

Rita Ora.

http://cdn.posh24.com/images/0a749b802defbf357e7ccf1361ccabef5


Also i have to remember you that according to primary historical sources, Greece was invaded, among others, from slavs and avars and as a result of this invasion, the ancient greeks were wiped.

Yes of course, Greeks are Slavs and Avars.

[King Niko]

...

You are Greek, is it true in the north, those Greeks have more a Slavic look?

I have been told that, but I can not confirm it myself.

I think Albanians do not have slavic DNA, Because they are not originally from Balkans.

[Hellenas]

You are Greek, is it true in the north, those Greeks have more a Slavic look?

I have been told that, but I can not confirm it myself.



Greek Macedonians, Thracians and Epirotes use to have some more lighter types who either have East Euro or North-West Euro admixture. To call this as Slavic it's so wrong as calling it Germanic. Most of these admixtures are there since antiquity and R1a haplogroup(prevalent among modern Slavs) can be found in the Balkans for 9,000 years.

[Scholarios]

Most of these admixtures are there since antiquity and R1a haplogroup(prevalent among modern Slavs) can be found in the Balkans for 9,000 years.

You still don't know how to read...

[King Niko]

Greek Macedonians and Thracians use to have some more lighter types who either have East Euro or North-West Euro admixture. To call this as Slavic it's so wrong as calling it Germanic. Most of these admixtures are there since antiquity and R1a haplogroup(prevalent among modern Slavs) can be found in the Balkans for 9,000 years.

My dads family is from Thrace, so would that be why I have a decent East Euro admixture as well?

But I see what you are saying, that makes perfect sense, I did not know it was that long in the Balkans..

Another quick question, my fathers, mothers, brother has told me something on the lines if I remember correctly (This is NOT my opinion) that Greeks were originally from the Germanic areas a looong time ago not all but a good bit migrated very very long time ago.. He is full blood Greek, and it makes me confused why he thinks this, I thought Greeks were always natives? Not any immigration of such.. do you have any information regarding this, I was planning on telling him he is wrong, but I mean I had nothing to say..

[Hellenas]

My dads family is from Thrace, so would that be why I have a decent East Euro admixture as well?

But I see what you are saying, that makes perfect sense, I did not know it was that long in the Balkans..

Another quick question, my fathers, mothers, brother has told me something on the lines if I remember correctly (This is NOT my opinion) that Greeks were originally from the Germanic areas a looong time ago not all but a good bit migrated very very long time ago.. He is full blood Greek, and it makes me confused why he thinks this, I thought Greeks were always natives? Not any immigration of such.. do you have any information regarding this, I was planning on telling him he is wrong, but I mean I had nothing to say..

North-west European admixture can be found in all Balkans, don't ask me how it came, I can't know.

But it's not from the Germans who invaded Balkans during WWII, as people like Laberia could claim. :lol:

[davai]

Without taking away anything to the genius of ancient greeks, compared with the other nations of ancient Balcan like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, the greeks were just a small and insignificant group to imprint in the genetic of the peninsula.
With Romans the discussion is totally different. The roman penetration in the Balkans, was capillary.
Manwhile with the slavs in Greece, the situation was another. The slavs wiped out the ancient hellenes. From that moment the ancient greeks ceased to exist.

neger.

http://i.imgur.com/9KpzIKY.png

[Abeja]

I'm an autistic subserf

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13164197_288126048188918_5263447865001974559_n.jpg ?oh=894df236cf312af6fa244a8b8db6342a&oe=58789894

[Laberia]

neger.


davai, i know that you are an idiot. Don`t spend your time to prove this.

[Laberia]

The following maps were created based on the data from the Dodecad Project and Eurogenes.




And who is/are the author(s)?

[Hellenas]

And who is/are the author(s)?

Dienekes and David W.

But I also posted the study of Michele Belledi, Estella S Poloni, Rosa Casalotti, Franco Conterio, Ilia Mikerezi, James Tagliavini and Laurent Excoffier.

Dipartimento di Biologia Evolutiva e Funzionale, Universit`a di Parma, Italy; D´epartement d’Anthropologie et Ecologie, Universit´e de Gen`eve, Switzerland; Fakulteti I Shkenkave Natyrore, Universiteti I Tiranes, Albania

Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v8/n7/pdf/5200443a.pdf

Which prove exactly what Eupedia said.

[Laberia]

Dienekes and David W.
Hellenas, can you quote an credible source to prove that the authors of the map are Dienekes and David W?


But I also posted the study of Michele Belledi, Estella S Poloni, Rosa Casalotti, Franco Conterio, Ilia Mikerezi, James Tagliavini and Laurent Excoffier.

Dipartimento di Biologia Evolutiva e Funzionale, Universit`a di Parma, Italy; D´epartement d’Anthropologie et Ecologie, Universit´e de Gen`eve, Switzerland; Fakulteti I Shkenkave Natyrore, Universiteti I Tiranes, Albania

Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v8/n7/pdf/5200443a.pdf

Which prove exactly what Eupedia said.

Ok, but first let explain this problem of the map.

[Hellenas]

Hellenas, can you quote an credible source to prove that the authors of the map are Dienekes and David W?

Lol, you try to prove the map is wrong. :pound: The map made by Maciamo and "The following maps were created based on the data from the Dodecad Project and Eurogenes."

[Laberia]

Lol, you try to prove the map is wrong. :pound: The map made by Maciamo and "The following maps were created based on the data from the Dodecad Project and Eurogenes."

Hellenas, i am not making lol here. I am making a serious discussion. You posted a map. A map is considered an document. I am asking you something normal. Who is/are the the author(s) of this map?
Your first answer was:

Dienekes and David W.
Your second answer is:

The map made by Maciamo
This is not serious. Can you give an definitive answer about the author(s) of this map pls?
Thank you in advance.

[Laberia]

Ok, i hope in the next days you will give an answer Hellenas.

[Hellenas]

Hellenas, i am not making lol here. I am making a serious discussion. You posted a map. A map is considered an document. I am asking you something normal. Who is/are the the author(s) of this map?
Your first answer was:

Your second answer is:

This is not serious. Can you give an definitive answer about the author(s) of this map pls?
Thank you in advance.

Really you make a serious discussion with someone you have insult with the worst words and you have troll his country and people more than anybody else?

You asked who are the authors of Dodecad Project and Eurogenes and you got the first answer then you asked who made the map and you got the second.

[Laberia]

Really you make a serious discussion with someone you have insult with the worst words and you have troll his country and people more than anybody else?

You asked who are the authors of Dodecad Project and Eurogenes and you got the first answer then you asked who made the map and you got the second.

And i will continue to do because you are a idiot who can not give a simple answer, the author(s) of the map.
I will continue to do because you are an idiot liar because i didn't asked about authors of Dodecad Project and Eurogenes.
And the most important, i will continue to do because the most filthy people who spread their pathological hate and disinformation against Albanians, are the greeks. And this ridiculous Dienekes is a prove.
You idiot as always failed. It's not the first time. I remember that i asked one entire night asked you to bring a single battle of Greeks against Ottomans. Your behavior was identic like now. Hours and hours and zero answer.
Your behavior is typical of a whore man. You are an old fag and the most important, a GOMAR.
Listen you donkey, we Albanians always have considered you greeks as gypsies. When a gypsy beggar who live with the money of germans and other Europeans countries accuse us Albanians in the forum as African, this is the end of world.

[Hellenas]

And i will continue to do because you are a idiot who can not give a simple answer, the author(s) of the map.
I will continue to do because you are an idiot liar because i didn't asked about authors of Dodecad Project and Eurogenes.
And the most important, i will continue to do because the most filthy people who spread their pathological hate and disinformation against Albanians, are the greeks. And this ridiculous Dienekes is a prove.
You idiot as always failed. It's not the first time. I remember that i asked one entire night asked you to bring a single battle of Greeks against Ottomans. Your behavior was identic like now. Hours and hours and zero answer.
Your behavior is typical of a whore man. You are an old fag and the most important, a GOMAR.
Listen you donkey, we Albanians always have considered you greeks as gypsies. When a gypsy beggar who live with the money of germans and other Europeans countries accuse us Albanians in the forum as African, this is the end of world.

And you call this as a serious discussion, lol, your a trash.

You are mad because you have more African admixture than any other Balkanian and this makes you speak like an illegal Albanian immigrant prostitute.


we Albanians always have considered you greeks as gypsies.

Even when you served as servants the Greek Byzantines? Even when as beggars you worked as our slaves from '90 to now? Albanians for Greece are nothing more than 3rd world Balkanian slaves, we always used you like that. Greeks created the whole European civilization and we had an Empire that lasted for 1.100 years, you are a big nothing infront of us, as well as infront of any other European nation, a complete ZERO!

Never heard by any Albanian in Greece that he considers Greeks as gypsies, neither any Greek who considers Albanians as gypsies, we have same pigmentation anyway. Of course here Albanians and Greeks call each other as gypsies, but that's not real life. So speak of your self and don't involve all Albanians to your BS.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Slavs aren't 100% eastern european just like Germanic peoples & Celts aren't 100% northwest european.

Not all eastern european admixture falls under the category of Slavs as well.

If we are to follow AncestryDNA's methodology then one needs to score at least 80% to be considered the average Eastern European. I score 48%, so a ways off.

[Scholarios]

Of course there is such thing as slavic dna.
Yugoslavs look like pigmented russians, albanians look like italians with celtic influence maybe.
Greeks are intermediate between south europeans are bulgarians, which makes albanians more south european.

"Italian with Celtic influence maybe"

https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/albanian-drugs-gang.jpg

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7422171.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Screen-Shot-2016-02-23-at-092612.png

http://i1.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article10589895.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/ruko-merkaj.jpg

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2015/03/04/10/Balint-Budi.jpg

https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12337019/640/12337019.jpg

I don't know how I'd classify these guys- but it definitely doesn't strike me as particularly Italian, and definitely not "Celtic".. a few Yugoslav-resemblances in there for sure though. The rest... I have no clue.

[Sikeliot]

I don't know how I'd classify these guys- but it definitely doesn't strike me as particularly Italian, and definitely not "Celtic".. a few Yugoslav-resemblances in there for sure though. The rest... I have no clue.

Kind of Caucasian.

[KrashNick]

Kind of Caucasian.

They don't look nothing like Georgians or Armenians , in fact they look quite Balkanite except for a guy which looks like a gypsy .

[Lek]

How much East European do Greeks score on my origins / family finder? Wanna compare it to Albanians.

[catgeorge]

They don't look nothing like Georgians or Armenians , in fact they look quite Balkanite except for a guy which looks like a gypsy .

They would definitely pass in Caucasus

Georgians

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44977000/jpg/_44977228_hands_afp.jpg

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/6/3123877-The_faces_of_Georgian_Hospitality_Georgia.jpg

[Lek]

"Italian with Celtic influence maybe"

https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/albanian-drugs-gang.jpg

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7422171.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Screen-Shot-2016-02-23-at-092612.png

http://i1.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article10589895.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/ruko-merkaj.jpg

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2015/03/04/10/Balint-Budi.jpg

https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/12337019/640/12337019.jpg

I don't know how I'd classify these guys- but it definitely doesn't strike me as particularly Italian, and definitely not "Celtic".. a few Yugoslav-resemblances in there for sure though. The rest... I have no clue.

Change the Yugoslav to Balkan and maybe you are on to something. They look plain Balkan.