Do SE Asians have some West Eurasian ancestry?

[Maguzanci]

Do you know if SE Asians like Thais, Malays, Cambodians, Indonesians, Burmese have some West Eurasian admix and how much? I heard South Indians have around 40-50% of their genomes derived from ANI or West Eurasia.

I heard that they have a lot of interactions with South Indians like trading, cultural, religious and even likely many intermarriages between two groups and assimilation of South Indians into the SE Asian society.

[zhaoyun]

I think Indonesians and Burmese probably have the most.

[Seya]

Burmese people look like a mix between Thais and Indians

[Maguzanci]

I think Indonesians and Burmese probably have the most.

I read there is a really big Indian community in Burma which dates back to the days of the British India. So likely a lot of intermarriages between the two groups.

Yes Indonesia, I think there are a lot of intermarriages between Indians and Arab traders and local Indonesians. I read of many Indonesians who say they have Yemeni or some Arabian ancestor.

[Seya]

I read there is a really big Indian community in Burma which dates back to the days of the British India. So likely a lot of intermarriages between the two groups.

Yes Indonesia, I think there are a lot of intermarriages between Indians and Arab traders and local Indonesians. I read of many Indonesians who say they have Yemeni or some Arabian ancestor.

most of them are Bengalis (in Rakhine State) and are muslims .

[zhaoyun]

I read there is a really big Indian community in Burma which dates back to the days of the British India. So likely a lot of intermarriages between the two groups.

Yes Indonesia, I think there are a lot of intermarriages between Indians and Arab traders and local Indonesians. I read of many Indonesians who say they have Yemeni or some Arabian ancestor.

I think you are talking about the Rohinga, who are basically Muslim Bengalis (Bangladeshis), they are widely discriminated against in Myanmar.

I've noticed that Indonesians seem to have a different look from other Malayan peoples like Malaysia or Filipinos. I think certain regions probably absorbed a number of South Asian and Middle Eastern admixture.

[Maguzanci]

I think you are talking about the Rohinga, who are basically Muslim Bengalis (Bangladeshis), they are widely discriminated against in Myanmar.

I've noticed that Indonesians seem to have a different look from other Malayan peoples like Malaysia or Filipinos. I think certain regions probably absorbed a number of South Asian and Middle Eastern admixture.

Im not sure if Burmese officials count Rohingya as part of the Indian community or not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_Indians
It says they are around 2% of population in 2011 census. Also I also heard from a Burmese maid in my house that there are Indians in Myanmar which they are also known by the derogatory term "Kala" which means Black in Hindi.

Yes there are many Indonesians with Arab ancestors of mainly Yemeni descent from Hadhramaut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Indonesians
And yes certain regions of Indonesia like in Aceh and other parts of Sumatra, I think have significant Indian and Arab/Middle Eastern admixture. An Indonesian member in anthroscape said that he thinks Acehnese ethnic group have one of the most Caucasoid admixture in SE Asia. In fact there is even rumor of an Indonesian village of Portuguese descent in Aceh. They are said to some European features in their mostly SE Asian phenotypes: http://oldblog.aseankorea.org/archives/17377
http://syukriyah94.blogspot.com/2012/04/subhanallah-how-beautifull-muslim-blue.html

[Seya]

I read there is a really big Indian community in Burma which dates back to the days of the British India. So likely a lot of intermarriages between the two groups.

Yes Indonesia, I think there are a lot of intermarriages between Indians and Arab traders and local Indonesians. I read of many Indonesians who say they have Yemeni or some Arabian ancestor.

Burmese don't mix with Rohingya people cose they are muslims and this is a big big problem in Myanmar.

[Iloko]

Apparently it's the 'Eurasia K9 ASI' gedmatch calculator that will separate the ASI from the West-Eurasian in South Asians...The West-Eurasian/CHG will for sure be higher in Thais-Malays-Cambodians-Indonesians-Burmese than in Filipinos; Filipino are more likely to have higher WHG and ENF from Spanish influence I would think.

Here's my results:
http://i.imgur.com/ZJ3eDak.jpg

-I don't have any kit #'s for other SE-Asians though :( but I'd love to see some of their results for this calculator!

[Maguzanci]

Apparently it's the 'Eurasia K9 ASI' gedmatch calculator that will separate the ASI from the West-Eurasian in South Asians...The West-Eurasian/CHG will for sure be higher in Thais-Malays-Cambodians-Indonesians-Burmese than in Filipinos; Filipino are more likely to have higher WHG and ENF from Spanish influence I would think.

Here's my results:

-I don't have any kit #'s for other SE-Asians though :( but I'd love to see some of their results for this calculator!

Hmm can you try Iran Neolithic K6 or Gedrosia ANE K6?

Unfortunately Cambodians are the only Southeast Asian population that I saw in calculators that break ASI and West Eurasian components.

In Iran Neolithic K6 and ANE K6, Cambodians are around 7% (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8166-Updated-Neolithic-Iranian-Calculator&p=176871&viewfull=1#post176871) and 6.3% (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13O_IYAv4SE8jLO9FKOQ5RiHf4vQeOQbSRWa-KsN7wO4/edit#gid=1957523915) West Eurasian (Iran Neolithic+Natufian for the former, ANE+Natufian for the latter). You can also find both calculators here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PWAi-sPU3KniSxgJg-L7CjcXK2K7CXvIrFr8_F-ZhOE/edit#gid=1108042089

[Iloko]

Hmm can you try Iran Neolithic K6 or Gedrosia ANE K6?

Unfortunately Cambodians are the only Southeast Asian population that I saw in calculators that break ASI and West Eurasian components.

In Iran Neolithic K6 and ANE K6, Cambodians are around 7% (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8166-Updated-Neolithic-Iranian-Calculator&p=176871&viewfull=1#post176871) and 6.3% (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13O_IYAv4SE8jLO9FKOQ5RiHf4vQeOQbSRWa-KsN7wO4/edit#gid=1957523915) West Eurasian (Iran Neolithic+Natufian for the former, ANE+Natufian for the latter). You can also find both calculators here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PWAi-sPU3KniSxgJg-L7CjcXK2K7CXvIrFr8_F-ZhOE/edit#gid=1108042089
Iran Neolithic K6:
9.05% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
86.02% East_Asian
1.70% Iran_Neolithic
2.48% Natufian
0.75% WHG
0.00% Sub_Saharan

ANE K6:
1 East_Asian 87.14
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 8
3 Natufian 2.03
4 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 1.6
5 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 1.23

Hmm maybe my West-Eurasian on these is mostly the Spanish I got on 23andme...On the Eurasia K9 ASI calc I posted earlier I got 4.12% CHG which I normally don't get + some WHG & ENF which is probably representing the minor Iberian I got on 23andme.

...You know what would be cool- is if 23andme-FTDNA etc would offer a more refined admixture view for ancient populations and percentages. I await for that day to come.

[Iloko]

Here's a Tongan who also got some CHG:

http://i.imgur.com/JrLkDR0.jpg

[Maguzanci]

Iran Neolithic K6:
9.05% Ancestral_S_Eurasian
86.02% East_Asian
1.70% Iran_Neolithic
2.48% Natufian
0.75% WHG
0.00% Sub_Saharan

ANE K6:
1 East_Asian 87.14
2 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 8
3 Natufian 2.03
4 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 1.6
5 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 1.23

Hmm maybe my West-Eurasian on these is mostly the Spanish I got on 23andme...On the Eurasia K9 ASI calc I posted earlier I got 4.12% CHG which I normally don't get + some WHG & ENF which is probably representing the minor Iberian I got on 23andme.

...You know what would be cool- is if 23andme-FTDNA etc would offer a more refined admixture view for ancient populations and percentages. I await for that day to come.

How much West Eurasian do you get in most calculators? Also how much West Eurasian do other Filipinos get? Have you seen ones with really high percentage?

[Iloko]

How much West Eurasian do you get in most calculators? Also how much West Eurasian do other Filipinos get? Have you seen ones with really high percentage?
I usually get around 3.75-4.5%, and it usually shows up as Greek on the gedmatch oracle lol. On 23andme maybe rougly half of all Filipinos might score a few percentage points only, maybe like .5-5.5%, and more rarely it sometimes reaches towards 8%+. On Gedmatch it's about the same as with 23andme, just a very minor amount. Here are some Filipino 'puntDNAL K15' results (very minor W-Eurasian in this case)(I haven't tried the other calculators for them though): http://imgur.com/a/KywWj

Some filipino 23andme compositions: http://imgur.com/a/7JIaz

[Selurong]

Do you know if SE Asians like Thais, Malays, Cambodians, Indonesians, Burmese have some West Eurasian admix and how much? I heard South Indians have around 40-50% of their genomes derived from ANI or West Eurasia.

I heard that they have a lot of interactions with South Indians like trading, cultural, religious and even likely many intermarriages between two groups and assimilation of South Indians into the SE Asian society.

In Indonesia, you would find the area of Sumatra to have a high degree of Indian and Arab admixture.

Also, according to genetic studies, Bali, Indonesia, a Hindu area in Muslim Indonesia, has a a percentage of 12% Indian Y-DNA in their total genepool.

In contrast, eight other haplogroups (e.g., within H, J, L, and R), making up approximately 12% of the Balinese paternal gene pool, appear to have migrated to Bali from India.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16114819

Filipinos also have Western Eurasian ancestry (And also Native-American ones to boot)

Old censuses during Spanish-times say that 1/3rd of the Filipinos that live in the main island of Luzon, which is the most populous, have Spanish admixture (The origins of which, span from Spain to Latin-America) (http://www.authorama.com/former-philippines-b-8.html)

Recent genetic studies reveal that around 13.33% of the people of the Philippines also have Spanish Y-DNA

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg/800px-105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg

The Spanish Y-DNA, R1b, can be found among 13.33% of the Philippine population.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipinos#Origins_and_genetic_studies

[Iloko]

In Indonesia, you would find the area of Sumatra to have a high degree of Indian and Arab admixture.

Also, according to genetic studies, Bali, Indonesia, a Hindu area in Muslim Indonesia, has a a percentage of 12% Indian Y-DNA in their total genepool.

In contrast, eight other haplogroups (e.g., within H, J, L, and R), making up approximately 12% of the Balinese paternal gene pool, appear to have migrated to Bali from India.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16114819

Filipinos also have Western Eurasian ancestry (And also Native-American ones to boot)

Old censuses during Spanish-times say that 1/3rd of the Filipinos that live in the main island of Luzon, which is the most populous, have Spanish admixture (The origins of which, span from Spain to Latin-America) (http://www.authorama.com/former-philippines-b-8.html)

Recent genetic studies reveal that around 13.33% of the people of the Philippines also have Spanish Y-DNA

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg/800px-105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg

The Spanish Y-DNA, R1b, can be found among 13.33% of the Philippine population.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipinos#Origins_and_genetic_studies
23andme gave me the basal Y-dna haplogroup "C". Since I'm Filipino is it likely that my Y-dna is some branch of C2 instead of C3?..I do not really know much about haplogroups.

[Selurong]

23andme gave me the basal Y-dna haplogroup "C". Since I'm Filipino is it likely that my Y-dna is some branch of C2 instead of C3?..I do not really know much about haplogroups.

Your Y-DNA is pretty rare and only occurs among 6% of the Philippine population.

[MINARDOWICZ]

Burmese and Thai have some minor S Asian I know...

[Jesse1961]

Apparently it's the 'Eurasia K9 ASI' gedmatch calculator that will separate the ASI from the West-Eurasian in South Asians...The West-Eurasian/CHG will for sure be higher in Thais-Malays-Cambodians-Indonesians-Burmese than in Filipinos; Filipino are more likely to have higher WHG and ENF from Spanish influence I would think.

Here's my results:
http://i.imgur.com/ZJ3eDak.jpg

-I don't have any kit #'s for other SE-Asians though :( but I'd love to see some of their results for this calculator!

Here's mine...
Population
SE_Asian 75.99
Early_Neolithic_Farmers 0.36
SW_Asian -
Ancestral_South_Indian 6.86
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 0.62
WHG -
Siberian_E_Asian 11.87
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 2.60
W_African 1.70

[zarzian]

In Indonesia, you would find the area of Sumatra to have a high degree of Indian and Arab admixture.

Also, according to genetic studies, Bali, Indonesia, a Hindu area in Muslim Indonesia, has a a percentage of 12% Indian Y-DNA in their total genepool.

In contrast, eight other haplogroups (e.g., within H, J, L, and R), making up approximately 12% of the Balinese paternal gene pool, appear to have migrated to Bali from India.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16114819

Filipinos also have Western Eurasian ancestry (And also Native-American ones to boot)

Old censuses during Spanish-times say that 1/3rd of the Filipinos that live in the main island of Luzon, which is the most populous, have Spanish admixture (The origins of which, span from Spain to Latin-America) (http://www.authorama.com/former-philippines-b-8.html)

Recent genetic studies reveal that around 13.33% of the people of the Philippines also have Spanish Y-DNA

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg/800px-105_Filipino_Y-DNA.jpg

The Spanish Y-DNA, R1b, can be found among 13.33% of the Philippine population.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipinos#Origins_and_genetic_studies

Damn dog, Spaniards slayed so many pinay bitches.

[Selurong]

Here's mine...
Population
SE_Asian 75.99
Early_Neolithic_Farmers 0.36
SW_Asian -
Ancestral_South_Indian 6.86
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 0.62
WHG -
Siberian_E_Asian 11.87
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 2.60
W_African 1.70

Welcome to the forum, Jesse1961!

It's nice to meet a fellow Filipino here. You are from Cagayan de Oro? Sweet! I always wanted to visit Cagayan de Oro.

BTW, your DNA comes from all over the globe! You have West African, Caucasian, Native American, East Asian, Southeast Asian and South Asian ancestry! You're a global villager lol.

[Selurong]

Damn dog, Spaniards slayed so many pinay bitches.

Actually, most of the people who came here weren't pure Spaniards. They were either Mullatoes, Mestizos or Native Americans from Mexico. Just look at this letter the Spanish Governor-General wrote to the King of Spain...

Letter from Fajardo to Felipe III From Manila, August 15 1620.(From the Spanish Archives of the Indies)

"The infantry does not amount to two hundred men, in three companies. If these men were that number, and Spaniards, it would not be so bad; but, although I have not seen them, because they have not yet arrived here, I am told that they are, as at other times, for the most part boys, mestizos, and mulattoes, with some Indians (Native Americans). There is no little cause for regret in the great sums that reënforcements of such men waste for, and cost, your Majesty. I cannot see what betterment there will be until your Majesty shall provide it, since I do not think, that more can be done in Nueva Spaña (Mexico), although the viceroy must be endeavoring to do so, as he is ordered."

Source: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16086/16086-h/16086-h.htm#d0e890





However, since the settler-soldiers here are descended from with Spanish males who bred with Amerindian or African women, they carried the Spanish Y-DNA which was R1b.

Also, the distribution of Spanish Y-DNA in the Philippines, which is only at 13.33% of the population, pales in comparison to the Spanish Y-DNA presence in Mexico which has the following Y-DNA makeup:

A 2012 study published by the Journal of Human Genetics Y chromosomes found the deep paternal ancestry of the Mexican mestizo population to be predominately European (64.9%), followed by Amerindian (30.8%) and Asian(1.2%).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexicans#MtDna_and_y_DNA_studies

So, it seems that Mexicans had more Spanish migration than us and it came from all classes of Spanish life, from Peasants to Nobility. Whereas in the Philippines, it was mostly Spanish Soldiers and Traders which came and in fact, most of them died because of incessant war with Chinese and Japanese pirates, Muslim Moro raids or due to Dutch and English threats. That's why only 13.33% of our Y-DNA is Spanish, compared to the relatively safer Mexico which has 64.9% of the its Y-DNA be Spanish.

[Jesse1961]

Welcome to the forum, Jesse1961!

It's nice to meet a fellow Filipino here. You are from Cagayan de Oro? Sweet! I always wanted to visit Cagayan de Oro.

BTW, your DNA comes from all over the globe! You have West African, Caucasian, Native American, East Asian, Southeast Asian and South Asian ancestry! You're a global villager lol.

Thanks...Yes, I live in Cagayan de Oro, but my paternal great-great grandfather trace its roots in Ilo-ilo-Negros provinces. He migrated in Cagayan de Oro.

[Selurong]

Thanks...Yes, I live in Cagayan de Oro, but my paternal great-great grandfather trace its roots in Ilo-ilo-Negros provinces. He migrated in Cagayan de Oro.

That's cool. I'm from Iloilo, specifically Jaro, a town which used to be filled with mestizos before the European/Latino admixture became diluted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaro,_Iloilo_City#Population

Jaro holds a high-concentration of Filipino-Mestizos and hosts many ancestral mansions of old Visayan families (of Mestizo descent). Family mansions such as those owned by the Lopez, Montinolla, Sanson, Luzariagga, De la Rama etc. families line the streets of this historic district. The French traveler Gabriel Lafond de Lurcy wrote of the place as such in his travelogues.

Haro is much bigger in size than Iloilo; it is a rich town, of mestizos who own great fortunes… the people of Haro are more civilized than those of the other neighboring towns (Molo and Iloilo). The color of their skin is whiter, consequence of a great mixture of European blood; and Spanish is spoken better there than in any place in the colony, the Capital excepted; the women are very beautiful and I can give assurance of this, having had the pleasure of being amongst them, that they have grace and figure and the features, which would call attention even in Europe. They show taste in their dress, which is rich and elegant and, like all mestizas, they show a lot of spirit.


What area was your paternal great-grandfather from, in Iloilo? Different areas have different descent. Arevalo used to be where the pure-Spanish lived, Molo is where the pure-Chinese settled at while the Iloilo City proper were mixed will all kinds of races. Jaro was filled with mestizos, the rest of the areas were mostly Malay-descended.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I have very interestingly on rare occasion met some caucasoid leaning Thai people and even some Subcontinental influenced looking ones I guess some subcontinental genes did stick around.

[Selurong]

I have very interestingly on rare occasion met some caucasoid leaning Thai people and even some Subcontinental influenced looking ones I guess some subcontinental genes did stick around.

Indian South-Asians, a Caucasoid people, used to migrate to Southeast Asia including Thailand, Malaysia and Cambodia.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2011/07/bac.jpg

That's why Cambodia used to be Hindu before they converted to Buddhism and even the Buddhism they got was from Sri Lanka not from China...

Maybe you encountered one of their descendants when you saw a Caucasoid looking Thai.

[Jesse1961]

[/I]What area was your paternal great-grandfather from, in Iloilo? Different areas have different descent. Arevalo used to be where the pure-Spanish lived, Molo is where the pure-Chinese settled at while the Iloilo City proper were mixed will all kinds of races. Jaro was filled with mestizos, the rest of the areas were mostly Malay-descended.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure where in Ilo-ilo. But what we heard from our father and grandfather is that our roots are in Ilo-ilo and Negros. We still address our uncles (tiyoy) and aunties (tiyay) like Ilonggos do. When I was still young our old folks told us that our family descended from a Spanish friar who sired many local women in his places of assignment during colonial times. Accordingly, that prolific friar migrated in the country along with his brothers that included soldiers.

[zhaoyun]

Malaysia's ex PM Mahathir Mohamad had South Asian ancestry

http://img.astroawani.com/2013-03/51362798997_950x600.jpg

[Jesse1961]

The new MyOrigins gives me around 3 percent South Asian although our family doesn't have any knowledge of an Indian ancestor within 5 to 7 generations.

[Selurong]

Malaysia's ex PM Mahathir Mohamad had South Asian ancestry

http://img.astroawani.com/2013-03/51362798997_950x600.jpg

He looks the part too.

[Selurong]

The new MyOrigins gives me around 3 percent South Asian although our family doesn't have any knowledge of an Indian ancestor within 5 to 7 generations.

That may be ancient ancestry predating the Spanish period. People from India spread Hinduism to all parts of Southeast Asia in the past. That's why some of the rulers the Spanish encountered in the Philippines were called Rajahs.

[Selurong]

I am not sure where in Ilo-ilo. But what we heard from our father and grandfather is that our roots are in Ilo-ilo and Negros. We still address our uncles (tiyoy) and aunties (tiyay) like Ilonggos do. When I was still young our old folks told us that our family descended from a Spanish friar who sired many local women in his places of assignment during colonial times. Accordingly, that prolific friar migrated in the country along with his brothers that included soldiers.

Yikes. That's scandalous for a friar to have sex with alot of women. Also, in the past, back when Fort Santiago was still standing, there also used to be alot of Spanish soldiers in Iloilo too.

[Jesse1961]

Yikes. That's scandalous for a friar to have sex with alot of women. Also, in the past, back when Fort Santiago was still standing, there also used to be alot of Spanish soldiers in Iloilo too.

Hahahaha...perhaps, it was the standard practice back then. i heard that in a particular province in Visayas region, not so long ago, some local parishioners would reserve a pretty girl for their parish priest. they must have inherited the practice from Spanish friars during colonial time.