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View Full Version : New Kalymnian Greek (Dodecanese islander) GEDmatch!


Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 01:09 AM
Comes up similar to Cretans and Sicilians. On some calculators though, they shift a bit more toward Greece proper than say, Cretans do.

MDLP World:

# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 40.55
2 Caucaus_Parsia 23.99
3 Middle_East 23.73
4 North_and_East_European 10.54
5 Mesoamerican 0.58
6 Arctic_Amerind 0.56
7 East_Asian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Cretan 3.32
2 Jew_Romania 5.8
3 Greek_East 5.91
4 Sicilian 6.27
5 Italian-Center 7.1
6 Greek_Center 7.47
7 Italian-South 7.48
8 Ashkenazim 9.05
9 Greek_South 9.32
10 Jew_France 9.42
11 Jew_Italia 9.49
12 Greek_North 9.54
13 Greek_Azov 10.39
14 Sephardim 11.14
15 Ashkenazim_V 11.91
16 Cypriot 12.89
17 Jew_Algeria 13.44
18 Jew_Tunisia 15
19 Jew_Syria 15.13
20 Tatar_Crim 15.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81% Greek_East + 19% Jew_Georgia @ 0.79
2 74.5% Greek_Center + 25.5% Druze @ 0.84
3 82.6% Greek_East + 17.4% Jew-Iraqi @ 0.86
4 79.3% Italian-Center + 20.7% Jew_Azerbaijan @ 0.94
5 57.5% Greek_North + 42.5% Cypriot @ 0.94
6 81.4% Italian-Center + 18.6% Jew-Iran @ 0.96
7 83.1% Greek_East + 16.9% Jew_Iraqi @ 0.98
8 79.8% Italian-Center + 20.2% Jew-Iraqi @ 0.98
9 78% Italian-Center + 22% Jew_Georgia @ 0.98
10 80.4% Italian-Center + 19.6% Jew_Iraqi @ 1.01
11 84.1% Greek_East + 15.9% Jew-Iran @ 1.02
12 80% Italian-Center + 20% Jew_Tat @ 1.02
13 81.2% Italian-Center + 18.8% Jew_Kurd @ 1.03
14 78.8% Greek_East + 21.2% Druze @ 1.04
15 74.9% Cypriot + 25.1% Orcadian @ 1.12
16 79.8% Italian-Center + 20.2% Jew-Uzbekistan @ 1.16
17 92.1% Greek_Cretan + 7.9% Latvian_V @ 1.16
18 77.1% Greek_Center + 22.9% Jew_Georgia @ 1.16
19 74.3% Cypriot + 25.7% British @ 1.17
20 94.5% Greek_Cretan + 5.5% Lithuanian_V @ 1.17



MDLP K23:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.88
2 European_Early_Farmers 21.24
3 Near_East 12.57
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.63
5 South_Central_Asian 6.11
6 North_African 3.45
7 Austronesian 1.07


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cretan @ 3.216144
2 Italian_South @ 5.073082
3 Romanian_Jew @ 5.076109
4 Greek_Smyrna @ 5.676656
5 Greek_Athens @ 5.725680
6 Greek_Phokaia @ 5.778069
7 Sicilian_East @ 5.994711
8 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 6.195584
9 Greek @ 6.234807
10 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 6.335375
11 Ashkenazi @ 6.410907
12 Greek_Islands @ 6.581614
13 Sicilian_Center @ 6.726787
14 Sicilian_West @ 8.004066
15 Greek_Macedonia @ 8.491160
16 French_Jew @ 8.620180
17 Central_Greek @ 8.655191
18 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 8.667227
19 Sicilian_Trapani @ 9.297133
20 Turk_Jew @ 10.036102

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% Greek_Northwest @ 1.575061

Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.59
2 West_Asian 18.25
3 West_Med 16.32
4 North_Sea 10.94
5 Atlantic 8.88
6 Baltic 6.99
7 Red_Sea 4.71
8 Eastern_Euro 3.11
9 Southeast_Asian 0.91
10 Oceanian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 4.99
2 East_Sicilian 6.35
3 South_Italian 6.35
4 Ashkenazi 7.03
5 Italian_Abruzzo 8.68
6 Italian_Jewish 9.79
7 Greek_Thessaly 10.06
8 Greek 10.79
9 Sephardic_Jewish 10.8
10 West_Sicilian 11.12
11 Algerian_Jewish 11.8
12 Cyprian 12.9
13 Tunisian_Jewish 14.05
14 Libyan_Jewish 14.51
15 Tuscan 14.68
16 Turkish 15.44
17 Lebanese_Muslim 15.71
18 Syrian 16.94
19 Bulgarian 17.37
20 Romanian 19.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.4% Central_Greek + 16.6% Assyrian @ 3.21
2 84.5% Central_Greek + 15.5% Armenian @ 3.27
3 85.2% Central_Greek + 14.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.37
4 85% Central_Greek + 15% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.41
5 67% Greek_Thessaly + 33% Assyrian @ 3.51
6 69.3% Greek_Thessaly + 30.7% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.53
7 85.9% Central_Greek + 14.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.55
8 56.9% Greek_Thessaly + 43.1% Cyprian @ 3.76
9 86.6% Central_Greek + 13.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.76
10 86.2% Central_Greek + 13.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.81
11 82.7% Central_Greek + 17.3% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.84
12 87.7% Central_Greek + 12.3% Kurdish @ 3.89
13 80.3% Central_Greek + 19.7% Cyprian @ 3.99
14 88.8% Central_Greek + 11.2% Iranian @ 4
15 62.2% Greek_Thessaly + 37.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.03
16 84.9% Central_Greek + 15.1% Syrian @ 4.05
17 87.1% Central_Greek + 12.9% Azeri @ 4.08
18 83.9% Central_Greek + 16.1% Turkish @ 4.09
19 69.1% Greek_Thessaly + 30.9% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.12
20 87.3% Central_Greek + 12.7% Samaritan @ 4.12



Dodecad K12:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.37
2 Atlantic_Med 24.5
3 North_European 15.07
4 Southwest_Asian 13.18
5 Gedrosia 6.71
6 Southeast_Asian 1.04
7 Northwest_African 0.8
8 South_Asian 0.25
9 East_African 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 5.42
2 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 6.22
3 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.55
4 Greek (Dodecad) 7.29
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.36
6 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 10.33
7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 12.29
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 14.2
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 14.62
10 Cypriots (Behar) 14.97
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.89
12 Turkish (Dodecad) 15.96
13 TSI30 (Metspalu) 17.36
14 Turks (Behar) 18.63
15 Lebanese (Behar) 19.65
16 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 20.83
17 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 21.29
18 Druze (HGDP) 22.16
19 Syrians (Behar) 22.43
20 Romanians (Behar) 22.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75% Cypriots (Behar) + 25% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.53
2 74.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 25.8% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.53
3 77.9% Cypriots (Behar) + 22.1% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 1.7
4 73.8% Cypriots (Behar) + 26.2% German (Dodecad) @ 1.86
5 75.6% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.4% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.88
6 78.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.3% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 1.89
7 75.6% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.4% English (Dodecad) @ 1.92
8 76.8% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.2% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.94
9 76.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.8% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.95
10 75.4% Cypriots (Behar) + 24.6% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.01
11 76.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.5% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.06
12 76.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.3% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.09
13 79.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 20.2% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 2.15
14 76.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.3% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.16
15 78% Cypriots (Behar) + 22% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.22
16 73.8% Greek (Dodecad) + 26.2% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.25
17 76.2% Cypriots (Behar) + 23.8% British (Dodecad) @ 2.35
18 76% Cypriots (Behar) + 24% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 2.45
19 77.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.5% Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) @ 2.48
20 76.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 23.5% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.52


PuntDNA-L K12:

# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 41.26
2 Caucasus_HG 27.47
3 European_HG 15.09
4 Near_East 13.27
5 South_Asian 1.08
6 Siberian 0.86
7 Oceanian 0.59
8 Beringian 0.37
9 East_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew 2.6
2 Sicilian_East 2.63
3 Sicilian_West 4.6
4 Turkish_Jew 9.26
5 Greek 9.52
6 Tuscan 9.71
7 Moroccan_Jew 9.78
8 Albanian 11.24
9 Cypriot 12.52
10 Turkish_Aydin 13.34
11 Libyan_Jew 14.06
12 Tunisian_Jew 15.19
13 Lebanese 16.02
14 Bulgarian 16.85
15 Turkish 17.17
16 Turkish_Kayseri 17.35
17 Druze 17.87
18 Assyrian 18.25
19 Italian_Bergamo 19.32
20 Syrian 19.36

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.1% Cypriot + 32.9% French @ 1.43
2 65.9% Assyrian + 34.1% Basque_Spaniard @ 1.68
3 58.3% Iraqi_Jew + 41.7% French_South @ 1.72
4 53.3% Italian_Bergamo + 46.7% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.94
5 84.1% Ashkenazi_Jew + 15.9% Turkish_Jew @ 1.95
6 62.4% Iranian_Jew + 37.6% Basque_Spaniard @ 2.02
7 53.3% Iraqi_Jew + 46.7% Spanish_Northeast @ 2.02
8 90.3% Ashkenazi_Jew + 9.7% Tunisian_Jew @ 2.03
9 68.2% Cypriot + 31.8% Belgian @ 2.04
10 50.8% Iranian_Jew + 49.2% Spanish_Southwest @ 2.05
11 90% Ashkenazi_Jew + 10% Libyan_Jew @ 2.09
12 62.9% Assyrian + 37.1% French_South @ 2.11
13 69.5% Cypriot + 30.5% German_South @ 2.13
14 86.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 13.3% Moroccan_Jew @ 2.15
15 65.2% Cypriot + 34.8% Romanian @ 2.18
16 90% Sicilian_East + 10% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.18
17 70% Cypriot + 30% Utahn_European @ 2.18
18 58.5% Druze + 41.5% Spanish_Northeast @ 2.19
19 56.6% Tuscan + 43.4% Cypriot @ 2.21
20 51.1% Ashkenazi_Jew + 48.9% Sicilian_East @ 2.22


Near East Neolithic K13:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 31.6
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 21.58
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 17.36
4 NATUFIAN 15.11
5 EHG 6.53
6 SHG_WHG 5.14
7 SE_ASIAN 0.77
8 PAPUAN 0.75
9 POLAR 0.61
10 SIBERIAN 0.54

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 5.23
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 6.71
3 Greek 8.05
4 Italian_South 8.54
5 Jew_Moroccan 9.81
6 Turkish_Istanbul 10.35
7 Turkish 10.73
8 Albanian 10.85
9 Cypriot 11.4
10 Turkish_Balekesir 13.6
11 Turkish_Adana 13.85
12 Turkish_Kayseri 14.22
13 Turkish_Aydin 14.55
14 Jew_Tunisian 15.37
15 Bulgarian 15.47
16 Jew_Libyan 15.89
17 Lebanese 17.28
18 Turkish_Trabzon 17.54
19 Romanian 18.76
20 Armenian 19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.4% Sicilian + 7.6% Iran_ChL @ 1.97
2 85% Jew_Ashkenazi + 15% Armenia_ChL @ 2.04
3 90% Sicilian + 10% Iran_recent @ 2.05
4 88.4% Sicilian + 11.6% Armenia_MLBA @ 2.07
5 94.8% Sicilian + 5.2% Iran_LN @ 2.25
6 94.8% Sicilian + 5.2% Iran_N @ 2.25
7 66.7% Albanian + 33.3% Jew_iraqi @ 2.4
8 86.6% Sicilian + 13.4% Kurd_C @ 2.68
9 85.7% Sicilian + 14.3% Iranian_Lori @ 2.78
10 85.6% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14.4% Armenia_MLBA @ 2.81
11 57.9% Cypriot + 42.1% Bulgarian @ 2.83
12 51.3% Albanian + 48.7% Cypriot @ 2.87
13 83% Sicilian + 17% Assyrian @ 2.88
14 89.2% Sicilian + 10.8% Armenia_ChL @ 2.89
15 82.1% Sicilian + 17.9% Azeri @ 2.96
16 76.4% Sicilian + 23.6% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.98
17 80.1% Sicilian + 19.9% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.01
18 85.3% Sicilian + 14.7% Iranian @ 3.02
19 59.6% Greek + 40.4% Cypriot @ 3.02
20 88.5% Sicilian + 11.5% Iranian_Mazandarani @ 3.08


Gedrosia K15:

# Population Percent
1 Caucuses 30.46
2 EEF 24.89
3 SW_Asian 19.56
4 WHG 13.14
5 Balochi 3.26
6 Kalash 2.71
7 Burusho 2.48
8 E_Asian 1.39
9 Paniya 0.7
10 Onge 0.62
11 SE_Asian 0.58
12 W_African 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 7.53
2 Ashkenazi_Jew 8.32
3 Greek 10.73
4 Turkish 11.85
5 Albanian 14.82
6 Cypriot 16.5
7 Assyrian 21.87
8 Kurd_N 21.96
9 Bulgarian 22.47
10 Lebanese 22.71
11 Iranian 23.31
12 Armenian 23.64
13 Bergamo 23.65
14 Georgian_Jew 24.3
15 Iraqi_Jew 24.52
16 Iranian_Jew 25.04
17 Kurd_C 25.32
18 Jordanian 27.11
19 Turkmen 29.45
20 Syrian 29.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% Bergamo + 49.3% Georgian_Jew @ 2.02
2 62% Sicilian + 38% Turkish @ 2.53
3 77.3% Sicilian + 22.7% Armenian @ 3.07
4 62.3% Georgian_Jew + 37.7% French_South @ 3.08
5 76.4% Sicilian + 23.6% Kurd_N @ 3.41
6 60% Albanian + 40% Assyrian @ 3.43
7 83.1% Ashkenazi_Jew + 16.9% Balkar @ 3.7
8 86.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 13.1% Abkhasian @ 3.7
9 55.7% Georgian_Jew + 44.3% Spanish @ 3.72
10 78.7% Sicilian + 21.3% Georgian_Jew @ 3.79
11 87.3% Ashkenazi_Jew + 12.7% Georgian @ 3.84
12 84.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 15.3% Adygei @ 3.84
13 62.6% Albanian + 37.4% Georgian_Jew @ 3.87
14 83.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 16.3% Chechen @ 4
15 78.3% Sicilian + 21.7% Iranian @ 4.04
16 88.7% Sicilian + 11.3% Abkhasian @ 4.08
17 85.3% Sicilian + 14.7% Balkar @ 4.12
18 85.7% Sicilian + 14.3% Chechen @ 4.22
19 63.5% Albanian + 36.5% Iranian_Jew @ 4.23
20 63% Albanian + 37% Iraqi_Jew @ 4.24
DarknessWin
11-17-2016, 03:47 AM
we have a jew here
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 04:04 AM
we have a jew here

This person is definitely in the Sicilian-South Italian-Cretan-Ashkenazi cluster, but they are not as far removed from the Greek mainland as some other islanders (like Cretans). It has to do with this ratio:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.37
2 Atlantic_Med 24.5
3 North_European 15.07
4 Southwest_Asian 13.18
5 Gedrosia 6.71
6 Southeast_Asian 1.04
7 Northwest_African 0.8
8 South_Asian 0.25
9 East_African 0.08


When North Euro exceeds SW Asian, it shifts them toward Greece proper. North Euro among Cretans and Sicilians usually is 12% or so.
DarknessWin
11-17-2016, 04:33 AM
This person is definitely in the Sicilian-South Italian-Cretan-Ashkenazi cluster, but they are not as far removed from the Greek mainland as some other islanders (like Cretans). It has to do with this ratio:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.37
2 Atlantic_Med 24.5
3 North_European 15.07
4 Southwest_Asian 13.18
5 Gedrosia 6.71
6 Southeast_Asian 1.04
7 Northwest_African 0.8
8 South_Asian 0.25
9 East_African 0.08


When North Euro exceeds SW Asian, it shifts them toward Greece proper. North Euro among Cretans and Sicilians usually is 12% or so.

Why you say that for Cretans ??? Actually they are closer to Greek mainland than other islanders.
Cretans have much Nordic and Slavic influence in them when other islands have not

Also Cretans are Dorians, same with Spartans and Macedonians and are closer to balkan type (Dinaro-Med)
when other islanders are Ionians and closer to ancient Athenians and Sicilians

The Dorian islands in Greece are Crete,Rhodes and Corfu
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 05:02 AM
Why you say that for Cretans ??? Actually they are closer to Greek mainland than other islanders.
Cretans have much Nordic and Slavic influence in them when other islands have not

Also Cretans are Dorians, same with Spartans and Macedonians and are closer to balkan type (Dinaro-Med)
when other islanders are Ionians and closer to ancient Athenians and Sicilians

The Dorian islands in Greece are Crete,Rhodes and Corfu


From the results I have seen, Cretans are more outlying than the other islands, but it might just be the sample I have seen. I know on MDLP K23, Sicilians and Aegean islanders match very well the "Cretan" sample but almost no one gets "Greek Islands" first so it must be an unrepresentative sample.
DarknessWin
11-17-2016, 05:24 AM
From the results I have seen, Cretans are more outlying than the other islands, but it might just be the sample I have seen. I know on MDLP K23, Sicilians and Aegean islanders match very well the "Cretan" sample but almost no one gets "Greek Islands" first so it must be an unrepresentative sample.

Cretans have extreme types, from total Nordid to a total MENA

But most of them are closer to mainland Greeks than other islanders,
Actually from all the famous Greeks and from people i know personally Cretans have the
most light eyes in Greece.

I am Macedonian and Cretans have more blondes and blue-green eyes from us :P

Take a look at a famous Cretan

http://www.arthropology.gr/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/50315_164479137711_5688857_n.jpg
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 05:26 AM
Cretans have extreme types, from total Nordid to a total MENA

But most of them are closer to mainland Greeks than other islanders,
Actually from all the famous Greeks and from people i know personally Cretans have the
most light eyes in Greece.

I am Macedonian and Cretans have more blondes and blue-green eyes from us :P

Take a look at a famous Cretan

http://www.arthropology.gr/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/50315_164479137711_5688857_n.jpg


Nordic as you might think they look, they are genetically the furthest islanders from the mainland. This Kalymnian is genetically closer to mainlanders than any Cretan I have seen yet.

I have seen more light eyed people among Samos, Chios, Lesbos than among Cretans actually, but I know it is said people in western Crete are light and can look North European.
catgeorge
11-17-2016, 05:34 AM
Nordic as you might think they look, they are genetically the furthest islanders from the mainland. This Kalymnian is genetically closer to mainlanders than any Cretan I have seen yet.

I have seen more light eyed people among Samos, Chios, Lesbos than among Cretans actually, but I know it is said people in western Crete are light and can look North European.

You have never seen any Cretans because you have never been there.

You should because Crete is one of the best places on earth

Take a virtual tour


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq9-SNk40c0
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 05:36 AM
You have never seen any Cretans because you have never been there.

You should because Crete is one of the best places on earth

Take a virtual tour


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq9-SNk40c0


So are you agreeing with his comment that Cretans look Nordic/Northern influenced?

I was not talking about phenotypes so much, just pointing out genetically that other islands are closer to the mainland than Crete is and I have seen many results showing exactly that.
catgeorge
11-17-2016, 05:47 AM
So are you agreeing with his comment that Cretans look Nordic/Northern influenced?

I was not talking about phenotypes so much, just pointing out genetically that other islands are closer to the mainland than Crete is and I have seen many results showing exactly that.

genetic results are statistics and lies most of the time IMO I don't buy half the bullshit without a proper and thorough report.

... we have plenty of cretans in macedonia and you would not know they are cretans - if this is what you are getting at
DarknessWin
11-17-2016, 09:29 AM
So are you agreeing with his comment that Cretans look Nordic/Northern influenced?

I was not talking about phenotypes so much, just pointing out genetically that other islands are closer to the mainland than Crete is and I have seen many results showing exactly that.

they have 60% light eyes, no other Greek region have this
DarknessWin
11-17-2016, 09:33 AM
You have never seen any Cretans because you have never been there.

You should because Crete is one of the best places on earth

Take a virtual tour


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq9-SNk40c0

Gun fires in 3:23 :p

Look this , gun fires inside the Venue 0:20


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPgoQhlyaoY
brennus dux gallorum
11-17-2016, 09:56 AM
All this Mainland islands thing in the methodology of the particular sites is very confusing, because for example pelloponese in all independent surveys I have seen plot closer to cyclades than to Macedonia, and intermediate between Macedonia and Crete
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 01:38 PM
All this Mainland islands thing in the methodology of the particular sites is very confusing, because for example pelloponese in all independent surveys I have seen plot closer to cyclades than to Macedonia, and intermediate between Macedonia and Crete

Not all Peloponnesians but some. On the contrary some of the most northern plotting people I have seen were Peloponnesian, it does not go by geography.

From what I have seen, genetically Cyclades shift toward the mainland more than the other islands.
brennus dux gallorum
11-17-2016, 02:40 PM
Not all Peloponnesians but some. On the contrary some of the most northern plotting people I have seen were Peloponnesian, it does not go by geography.

From what I have seen, genetically Cyclades shift toward the mainland more than the other islands.

I have never seen even one research showing the opposite, that pelloponese, Southern or northern, is closer to Macedonia than to cyclades, if that's what you mean. Yet the differences are very small, even compare to the size of the country, for example Macedonia is on border with Bulgaria but genetically never overlaps it,almost doesn't even touch

Southern and central mainland on the other hand, overlap Tuscany, I guess Rome too

Btw a main difference between cyclades and rest of Aegean islands, is the smaller settlement and assimilation of Asia Minor greeks, in 1923, so this may explain the "mainland similarities"
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:08 PM
For Comparison a Greek from Iraklion (Crete):

Can you send me their GEDmatch ID? I find it hard to believe from the results I have seen, that this person is Cretan.

Ikaria result is the most outlying Greek islander I've seen, he is not typical -- I know who it is btw. I was surprised by that one and wonder if he might have some Anatolian or Pontic Greek (a lot of those islands were repopulated with Greeks from other lands).
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:15 PM
I have the Iraklion person from Facebook and the Korinthian Greek is on youtube.

Did the person from Crete give you their gedmatch ID?

Also do they have a native Cretan surname?
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:17 PM
That Cretan does not have a Cretan surname. Likely they are only half.
Voskos
11-17-2016, 03:23 PM
I have the Iraklion person from Facebook and the Korinthian Greek is on youtube.

The Cretan guy gets a lot of Baltoslavic ( more than Peloponnesians even:D). Anyways, the island is pretty heterogenous so I'm not really surprised by the result.
brennus dux gallorum
11-17-2016, 03:27 PM
The Cretan guy gets a lot of Baltoslavic ( more than Peloponnesians even:D). Anyways, the island is pretty heterogenous so I'm not really surprised by the result.

If I am not mistaken Crete was among the first parts of Greece that were raided by slavs, also, any more middle eastern score can only be explained by the Arabic occupation of Crete in 8th century
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:28 PM
The Cretan guy gets a lot of Baltoslavic ( more than Peloponnesians even:D). Anyways, the island is pretty heterogenous so I'm not really surprised by the result.

Maybe different parts of Crete differ then (much like is the case with Sicily). I don't think his surname is Cretan though. I can send it to you if you wish to confirm.
Voskos
11-17-2016, 03:30 PM
I don't think his surname is Cretan though. I can send it to you if you wish to confirm.

sure
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:31 PM
sure

I need to get their gedmatch ID from my rep comments. Send me a rep comment? I don't remember the link to view them.
Voskos
11-17-2016, 03:34 PM
If I am not mistaken Crete was among the first parts of Greece that were raided by slavs, also, any more middle eastern score can only be explained by the Arabic occupation of Crete in 8th century


any more middle eastern score can only be explained by the Arabic occupation of Crete in 8th century

not necessarily. Cypriots and even some Rhodians get more middle eastern than us, yet they were never occupied by Arabs.


If I am not mistaken Crete was among the first parts of Greece that were raided by slavs

I got 0 percent slavic on my genetic test. Average mainland Greek gets from 10 to 25 percent.
Danaan
11-17-2016, 03:34 PM
This person is definitely in the Sicilian-South Italian-Cretan-Ashkenazi cluster, but they are not as far removed from the Greek mainland as some other islanders (like Cretans). It has to do with this ratio:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 38.37
2 Atlantic_Med 24.5
3 North_European 15.07
4 Southwest_Asian 13.18
5 Gedrosia 6.71
6 Southeast_Asian 1.04
7 Northwest_African 0.8
8 South_Asian 0.25
9 East_African 0.08


When North Euro exceeds SW Asian, it shifts them toward Greece proper. North Euro among Cretans and Sicilians usually is 12% or so.
Both components existed in the region at least since Classical antiquity.
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:35 PM
not necessarily. Cypriots and even some Rhodians get more middle eastern than us, yet they were never occupied by Arabs.


Well look at where Cyprus is located. As for Rhodians, I have seen only one full Rhodian result and it is similar to Cretans.
Voskos
11-17-2016, 03:37 PM
I need to get their gedmatch ID from my rep comments. Send me a rep comment? I don't remember the link to view them.

Here's a distribution map of his surname:

https://snag.gy/1F7Pja.jpg
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:38 PM
Here's a distribution map of his surname:

https://snag.gy/1F7Pja.jpg


Ok so he very well could be Cretan since the spot on the map is where he says he is from.
Percivalle
11-17-2016, 03:41 PM
I have never seen even one research showing the opposite, that pelloponese, Southern or northern, is closer to Macedonia than to cyclades, if that's what you mean. Yet the differences are very small, even compare to the size of the country, for example Macedonia is on border with Bulgaria but genetically never overlaps it,almost doesn't even touch

Southern and central mainland on the other hand, overlap Tuscany, I guess Rome too

Btw a main difference between cyclades and rest of Aegean islands, is the smaller settlement and assimilation of Asia Minor greeks, in 1923, so this may explain the "mainland similarities"

Tuscans (based on the sample from southern Tuscany used on Eurogenes and many other calculators) are a western version of Thessalians. Northwestern Tuscans tend to be closer to Northwestern Italians. I asked Vadim and on MDLP Italian-Center (very similar to Italian-South) is a central-southern sample from Abruzzo.

Eurogenes K15
http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V3.png
Danaan
11-17-2016, 03:41 PM
That Cretan does not have a Cretan surname. Likely they are only half.

What surname does he have?
Inquizzzitor
11-17-2016, 03:53 PM
I think a point deserves to be made here. (Hey, Sikleiot, I am back! With an extra z in my username).

First, DarknessWin is totally right about Cretans having, on average, lighter eyes (usually blue) than the rest of Greece. Whether that is a result of the Dorians, who knows, but from what I have read about the Dorian "invasion," we know so very little about what and who exactly it entailed, that to speak in genetic terms about "Dorians" is already going out a limb. Much like speaking of "Celtic" genes is non-sensical, the Dorians, like the Celts, could have represented an expansion of *culture* and of *language* but little genetic flow. So even if Cretans are viewed as descendants of the Dorians, doesn't tell us much about their genes and, as Sikeliot pointed out, Cretans fall within the general genetic ambit of southeast Greek islanders/Sicilians/Cypriots...

Sikeliot, also when you mentioned that, "Nordic as you might think they look, they are genetically the furthest islanders from the mainland," it reminded me of another point, because I think we can assume too much about the interplay between phenotype (how you look) and genotype (what your blood says, and who you're related to). Simply put, they don't link up on a nice and neat one-to-one basis. That is to say, there's nothing strange per se about "Nordid" looks or characteristics (such as blue eyes) and Cretans genetically more south/southeast than other Greek islanders and away from the mainland. For example, it's also true that there is not an insignificant amount of blondism and/or light eyes Sicilians, in my experience likely more than in the Aegean islands (at least in the western/NW part of Sicily), and yet Sicilians plot further southeast than Greek islanders, approaching very near Cyprus. Another example: blondism among Kurds, Druze, and Arab Syrian, Lebanese and even Iraqi populations is quite common, and light eyes are not as rare as you'd think either, but that doesn't mean that they are somehow close genetically to true Nordics. Complexion of hair, skin, and eyes is a good indicator of genes but can't be relied on exclusively to determine relatedness or genotype affinity (I know you know that, just bears repeating).
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 03:56 PM
I think a point deserves to be made here. (Hey, Sikleiot, I am back! With an extra z in my username).

First, DarknessWin is totally right about Cretans having, on average, lighter eyes (usually blue) than the rest of Greece. Whether that is a result of the Dorians, who knows, but from what I have read about the Dorian "invasion," we know so very little about what and who exactly it entailed, that to speak in genetic terms about "Dorians" is already going out a limb. Much like speaking of "Celtic" genes is non-sensical, the Dorians, like the Celts, could have represented an expansion of *culture* and of *language* but little genetic flow. So even if Cretans are viewed as descendants of the Dorians, doesn't tell us much about their genes and, as Sikeliot pointed out, Cretans fall within the general genetic ambit of southeast Greek islanders/Sicilians/Cypriots...

Sikeliot, also when you mentioned that, "Nordic as you might think they look, they are genetically the furthest islanders from the mainland," it reminded me of another point, because I think we can assume too much about the interplay between phenotype (how you look) and genotype (what your blood says, and who you're related to). Simply put, they don't link up on a nice and neat one-to-one basis. That is to say, there's nothing strange per se about "Nordid" looks or characteristics (such as blue eyes) and Cretans genetically more south/southeast than other Greek islanders and away from the mainland. For example, it's also true that there is not an insignificant amount of blondes and/or light eyes Sicilians, in my experience likely more than in the Aegean islands, and yet Sicilians plot further southeast than Greek islanders, approaching very near Cyprus. Another example: blondism among Kurds, Druze, and Arab Syrian, Lebanese and even Iraqi populations is quite common, and light eyes are not as rare as you'd think either, but that doesn't mean that they are somehow close genetically to true Nordics. Complexion of hair, skin, and eyes is a good indicator of genes but can't be relied on exclusively to determine relatedness or genotype affinity (I know you know that, just bears repeating).

Sicilians have more light eyes than some Greek islands but often more exotic features. With that said, different parts of Sicily differ. Some regions are more isolated and end up drifting toward Cyprus, much like Calabria. Another part of the island (southeast) clearly has more mainland Greek ancestry and ends up kind of near Peloponnesians. Palermo is a mixed bag, some people are very exotic and others not.

As for Cretans, I think we will not know unless we see a comprehensive study of their genes. But I do perceive them as phenotypically lighter than Sicilians, though I cannot say how they compare to other islands.
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 04:00 PM
Notice the Central Greek sample is mainly Athenian and doesn't differ from the Peloponesse Greek i posted and they plot more or less similar to Cretans.

Athens is full of Greeks from all over. It is likely not a pure mainland sample.
Voskos
11-17-2016, 04:01 PM
Sicilians have more light eyes than some Greek islands but often more exotic features. With that said, different parts of Sicily differ. Some regions are more isolated and end up drifting toward Cyprus, much like Calabria. Another part of the island (southeast) clearly has more mainland Greek ancestry and ends up kind of near Peloponnesians.

I think sicilians are on average more atlantomed, less baltoslavic, less middle eastern and very slightly more North african than Cretans. At least from the results I've seen so far.
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 04:02 PM
I think sicilians are on average more atlantomed, less baltoslavic, less middle eastern and very slightly more North african than Cretans. At least from the results I've seen so far.

I'd say it is:

- Less Caucasian but more SW Asian and North African
- More Atlanto-Med but less NE European/Balto-Slavic

And in a way, these elements cancel out and make them more or less similar, almost like Sicilians are a 'western' version of Cretans by virtue of the bolded part.
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 04:03 PM
Correct, still they represent Greeks more than let's say Greeks from Macedonia (who are not even full Greeks) or some isolated town from bordering Albania.

But all of the mainland results I personally see, come up fairly similar. Whether north or south.

Are you "SamuelLevy" from ABF?
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 04:10 PM
Cretan Greeks are said to be the lightest out of any Greek group in terms of eye color, which agains the statement genotype=/phenotype.

I don't know that person, but i've heard you're a famous "internet poster" by someone here.

Well your posts are very similar to his.

As far as Cretans go I just know they look lighter/more "Northern" influenced than Sicilians despite being genetically more or less the same with a few components shifted around.
Inquizzzitor
11-17-2016, 04:28 PM
You're right Sikeliot, Palermo is a mixed bag. Some look Persian, some look Catalan, some look French. Weird. Messina/Calabria is more monolithically SW Asian, Middle Eastern, and I would disagree that Cretans pull more toward the Middle East than do Sicilians. Sicilians plot southeast of Crete, closer to Cyprus, no?

I don't have enough experience with Cretans to make major assumptions about most common phenotypes, except that the blue eyes thing is a real.

EDIT: Yes Sicilians may (may) have more Atlanto-Med than Cretans but they have more SW Asian/Middle East elements which pull them east of Crete notwithstanding (negligibly) higher Atlanto-Med input.
Sikeliot
11-17-2016, 04:29 PM
You're right Sikeliot, Palermo is a mixed bag. Some look Persian, some look Catalan, some look French. Weird. Messina/Calabria is more monolithically SW Asian, Middle Eastern, and I would disagree that Cretans pull more toward the Middle East than do Sicilians. Sicilians plot southeast of Crete, closer to Cyprus, no?

I don't have enough experience with Cretans to make major assumptions about most common phenotypes, except that the blue eyes thing is a real.

Cretans and Sicilians are on par with one another genetically, with the changes I specified. Sicilians are like Cretans + Tunisian, or Cretans are like Sicilian + Armenian. Make sense?

Both are, by far, closer to one another than either is to most mainland Greeks. You can model mainland Greeks as 75% Sicilian, 25% Russian.

I sent you a message btw.
Queen B
11-17-2016, 04:31 PM
Correct, still they represent Greeks more than let's say Greeks from Macedonia (who are not even full Greeks) or some isolated town from bordering Albania.
The Greeks from Macedonia are fully Greeks :picard2:
Nikomahos
11-17-2016, 04:49 PM
That Cretan does not have a Cretan surname. Likely they are only half.

Can you send me the surname please?
Voskos
11-17-2016, 05:12 PM
Can you send me the surname please?

it's not an -akis one.
Nikomahos
11-17-2016, 05:13 PM
....

Regarding his surname, I have never met a Cretan with such surname. Is he eastern or central? From the surname map that another Greek member posted he seems to come close from my region. (East)
Nikomahos
11-17-2016, 05:17 PM
it's not an -akis one.

You don't have to be -akis to be proper Cretan though.
Voskos
11-17-2016, 05:17 PM
Regarding his surname, I have never met a Cretan with such surname. Is he eastern or central? From the surname map that another Greek member posted he seems to come close from my region. (East)

Surnames don't mean much tbh. I've even seen Cretans with surnames supposed to be Arvanitic get normal J2a-M319 southern cretan Y-Dna result. :picard2:
DarknessWin
11-17-2016, 06:28 PM
Correct, still they represent Greeks more than let's say Greeks from Macedonia (who are not even full Greeks) or some isolated town from bordering Albania.

Who said that ?? Macedonians are pure Greeks , other greek tribes mixed more than them.
Just take a look at the near balkan countries and see how much Greek DNA they score
brennus dux gallorum
11-17-2016, 10:21 PM
Who said that ?? Macedonians are pure Greeks , other greek tribes mixed more than them.
Just take a look at the near balkan countries and see how much Greek DNA they score

Balkans do not overlap Greece, even Bulgaria autosomally does not even touch Macedonia. Greece on average overlaps everything from Sicily to southern Tuscany, not balkans
DarknessWin
11-18-2016, 04:44 PM
Balkans do not overlap Greece, even Bulgaria autosomally does not even touch Macedonia. Greece on average overlaps everything from Sicily to southern Tuscany, not balkans

Balkans are mixed but they have Greek dna especially in the ancient Greek colonies region.

DNA mean nothing for me, Greece is mostly Dinaro-Med same with other Balkanian people and Italy belong to this group too
Sikeliot
11-18-2016, 08:27 PM
Balkans are mixed but they have Greek dna especially in the ancient Greek colonies region.

DNA mean nothing for me, Greece is mostly Dinaro-Med same with other Balkanian people and Italy belong to this group too

The type overlapping between Greece and Balkans are Dinarid, Alpine and Pontid. Also minor Gorid.
DarknessWin
11-18-2016, 10:23 PM
The type overlapping between Greece and Balkans are Dinarid, Alpine and Pontid. Also minor Gorid.

Gorid is not exist in Greece, we have mostly Dinaro-Med tall types.
Dinaro-Med exist in Italy-Greece mostly and then some of them in Albania,FYROM,Bulgaria,Serbia,Croatia

Also pure Dinarid in Greece is scarce , mostly you see albanians of that type and also they are short for Dinarid because
they are mixed Dinarid with alpine mostly. Same with Fyrom and Bulgaria and that's why they are so short people

On the other hand Dinarid Serbs and Bosnians are the taller people in Europe

So i say Greece have mostly Dinaro-Med,Pontid,Alpine and Atlanto-Med types
catgeorge
11-18-2016, 10:47 PM
Who said that ?? Macedonians are pure Greeks , other greek tribes mixed more than them.
Just take a look at the near balkan countries and see how much Greek DNA they score

It doesnt suit their agenda if they do that
catgeorge
11-18-2016, 10:48 PM
The type overlapping between Greece and Balkans are Dinarid, Alpine and Pontid. Also minor Gorid.

:picard1:
Seth MacFarlane
12-17-2018, 01:06 AM
You have never seen any Cretans because you have never been there.

You should because Crete is one of the best places on earth

Take a virtual tour


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq9-SNk40c0

Yea those look north european extcept the guy on the left he looks Kurdish