How and where brown eyes come to Europe?

[No.Wolf]

Hello i want to ask you where and how brown eyes appeared in Europe ?? Could person with brown eyes be classified as pure European or is there some non-european influence? Thank you for your opinion

[Oneeye]

Is it possible that brown eyes completely died out and was later introduced? Seems far fetched to me.

[Ylla]

No blue eyes = Not european

[No.Wolf]

I am very interested in this, because my skin is pale and my hair is dirty blonde, in the summer almost pure blonde and i have freckles but my eyes are hazel.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

First peoples who came to Europe had brown eyes, also the Neolithic farmers

about the second question, obviously yes, brown eyed European don't mean non European admixiture

[JBoscherville]

Brown eyes are a sign of non-whiteness. Hazel or green eyes are a sign of miscegenation. Blues eyes are a sign of purity.

[No.Wolf]

I mean, i was asking serious question. Just don't troll

[Sekkmer]

miscegenation
My choice: :suicide:

[Neon Knight]

Hello i want to ask you where and how brown eyes appeared in Europe ?? Could person with brown eyes be classified as pure European or is there some non-european influence? Thank you for your opinionBy any sensible definition, a pure European can have any eye colour.

[Mikula]

I am very interested in this, because my skin is pale and my hair is dirty blonde, in the summer almost pure blonde and i have freckles but my eyes are hazel.

It is a Czenglish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czenglish). In English is used term strawberry blond.
Anyway, blond hair and hazel eyes are interesting combination. My younger son has it too.

[Hellenas]

No white eyes, skin, hairs = Not European.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/622a1667e46cf60a5d40d9dad9d624f0/tumblr_mwknfbqwtU1r72vcco1_500.jpg

And since even Albinos have blue colored eyes, there are not any whites in Europe.

[Tschaikisten]

SUCK IT NORDICISTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJBDkHXt75o

[No.Wolf]

I am asking this question, because they're plenty of ppl who claim that people who came to Europe had blue eyes and blue eyes are typically european and i want to know the truth if is it just a theory or what are the facts, because in my opinion it's a completely nonsense, i saw people with blue eyes and dark hair or blue eyed gypsies, so i think european racial purity hasn't nothing to do with eyes color.

[Oneeye]

It is a Czenglish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czenglish). In English is used term strawberry blond.
Anyway, blond hair and hazel eyes are interesting combination. My younger son has it too.

Dishwater blonde and dirty blonde are both used by anglophones in North America. Strawberry blonde has a red tint

[Root]

How and where brown eyes come to Europe?


came from outer space


http://inosmi.ru/images/23514/96/235149658.jpg

http://b2blogger.com/news/img/large/6128-Padenie-novogo-meteorita-na-Zemlyu-grozit-Evrope-unichtozheniem.jpg

[No.Wolf]

It is a Czenglish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czenglish). In English is used term strawberry blond.
Anyway, blond hair and hazel eyes are interesting combination. My younger son has it too.

Haha, thank you my comrade for new information :D

[Damião de Góis]

Brown eyes came to Europe with neolithic invaders from Ayrabia. Of course the more brown eyed a population is, the less euro it is.
A picture of one of this foreign ayrab invaders:

http://oi66.tinypic.com/20aubue.jpg

[Neon Knight]

You could ask the same question about any minority genes in Europeans e.g. that for digesting lactose.

[Grab the Gauge]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be. This is not an insult to brown featured people; just a recognition of fact. There's nothing wrong about having brown features or not being white. And by blue eyes I mean very brightly, burning blue. No grey and pale blue eyes.

[Grab the Gauge]

You could ask the same question about any minority genes in Europeans e.g. that for digesting lactose.

These are not minority genes. Living in Europe does not equal European.

[Mikula]

Dishwater blonde and dirty blonde are both used by anglophones in North America. Strawberry blonde has a red tint

OK. Sorry, but once I was talking with English native speakers and used the term "dirty blond" and they did not understand me.

[No.Wolf]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be. This is not an insult to brown featured people; just a recognition of fact. There's nothing wrong about having brown features or not being white. And by blue eyes I mean very brightly, burning blue. No grey and pale blue eyes.

Please less trolls

[Grab the Gauge]

SUCK IT NORDICISTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJBDkHXt75o


For myself I am disposed to side with those who hold that the German peoples have never intermarried with alien stocks, but have always stood forth as a race rooted in the soil, pure and unlike every other. This is why, extraordinarily numerous as the Germans are, they all possess precisely the same physical characteristics, fierce blue eyes, red hair ([meaning blonde & red]), and large frames
pp.57

http://englishnews.org/news-central/resources/resource-germania-quotations-by-tacitus.html

[Neon Knight]

These are not minority genes. Living in Europe does not equal European.European = descended from people who were living in Europe like, fucking yonks ago.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be. This is not an insult to brown featured people; just a recognition of fact. There's nothing wrong about having brown features or not being white. And by blue eyes I mean very brightly, burning blue. No grey and pale blue eyes.

but, don't was you who says that Northern Europeans/blue eyed was basically Hapas/Mestizos with high Mongoloid admixture? :confused:

[Grab the Gauge]

European = descended from people who were living in Europe like, fucking yonks ago.

By that measure, all non-Africans are European by descending from the Vindija Neanderthal.

.

[randomguy1235]

No blue eyes = Not european


Brown eyes are a sign of non-whiteness. Hazel or green eyes are a sign of miscegenation. Blues eyes are a sign of purity.

Hmmm...

Blue eyes?

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15337380_1251727728221204_5378766214403398796_n.jp g?oh=d18624b3f865679b3e776c7ca99c2677&oe=58F22D39

Check.

Pink nipples?

Pervert!

Check.


Looks like I'm an honorary Aryan bois :]

[Voskos]

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/autosomaladna.shtml#pigmentation

[Oneeye]

OK. Sorry, but once I was talking with English native speakers and used the term "dirty blond" and they did not understand me.

Were they British? It's called both dishwater and dirty here

[No.Wolf]

You're purely troll mate. If you proof this by some facts, but you are just spreading disinformation.

[Hellenas]

Ancient Greek eyes = Non-white.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Sculpture_Eyelashes.jpg

Heniokhos, Charioteer of Delphi(Sanctuary of Apollo, 478 or 474 BC).

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/acd44d4d-818b-4b50-ac37-358b5888a3f6_zps6b6heye5.jpg

Goddess Demeter (3rd c. BC)

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/da3a15eb-7311-49d5-b8dd-ca5244e85e3c_zpsb14s1htz.jpg

Marathon young athlete(340-330 BC)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8426/7599407344_7a317c4456_b.jpg

The Ephebe of Antikythera(340-330 BC)

http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/artemida/art020.jpg

Goddess Artemis (Mid-4th century BC)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5e/55/bc/5e55bcd1ebc916d03baa0cc661c1de44.jpg

[Mikula]

Were they British? It's called both dishwater and dirty here

I am not sure, but as I remember, they were from New Zealand

[Danaan]

Indoeuropeans brought brown eyes.

Native swarthy WHGs had blue eyes.

[Bloody]

Blond hair and lightbrown or hazel eyes is a quite common combination in europe, specially among germans, austrians, poles, czech, dutch and danish peoples.


Some of the hottest girls I have met are blondes with brown eyes.

[Grab the Gauge]

Bronze and stone statues do not reflect the coloration of their living subjects.

[Hellenas]

Ancient Greek bronze statues do reflect the coloration of their living subjects.

They are not some kind of re-coloration but the color as has survived.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5e/55/bc/5e55bcd1ebc916d03baa0cc661c1de44.jpg

The Hellenic eye.

[Grab the Gauge]

Ancient Greek bronze statues do reflect the coloration of their living subjects.

They are not some kind of re-coloration but the color as has survived.

Hey genius, bronze statues aren't "colored". I sure hope mischlings won't have the opportunity to claim George Washington as their own, when his statues are unearthed. :rolleyes:

[Hellenas]

Hey genius, bronze statues aren't "colored". I sure hope mischlings won't have the opportunity to claim George Washington as their own, when his statues are unearthed. :rolleyes:

As it seems you have a lot of mass inside your cranium as it is a big one but you have to turning it on. Ancient Greek bronze statues aren't colored, their eyes are.

I can even post one with blue eyes...:D

[adsız]

I am very interested in this, because my skin is pale and my hair is dirty blonde, in the summer almost pure blonde and i have freckles but my eyes are hazel.

"Hazel" ? Then, you are probably not a pure white but a mix. Real eye color for white people is blue.

[No.Wolf]

Please guys, this is nonsense :) just speak about my question and proof facts if its possible not just theories

[Moinonplus]

Ancient Greek eyes = Non-white.

Yes, ironically, the people who invented the word "Europe" and shaped the European culture (together with Etruscans + Romans) as no one else were brown-eyed. ;)

Ultraviolet light has revealed that Greek statues had usually red brown eyes (http://io9.gizmodo.com/5616498/ultraviolet-light-reveals-how-ancient-greek-statues-really-looked).

The Yamna people, who brought their religion to India and the Peloponnes, were also brown-eyed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture#Physical_characteristics).

[adsız]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be. This is not an insult to brown featured people; just a recognition of fact. There's nothing wrong about having brown features or not being white. And by blue eyes I mean very brightly, burning blue. No grey and pale blue eyes.

+1

[No.Wolf]

"Hazel" ? Then, you are probably not a pure white but a mix. Real eye color for white people is blue.

That will mean that all people without blue eyes and blonde hair and pale skin are mixed. So how it's possible that i have blonde hair and some blue eyed man has black hair? That will mean all europeans are mixed.
And if we want to speak about purity we need to look at skeleton and skull too, but u didn't show any proof so your opinion is nonsense

[Grab the Gauge]

As it seems you have a lot of mass inside your cranium as it is a big one but you have to turning it on. Ancient Greek bronze statues aren't colored, their eyes are.

I can even post one with blue eyes...:D

The eyes are not colored. Greek statues had inlaid eyes made of glass, gemstone, metal. These materials will not even hold a pigment; and it was not possible to forge blue colored glass until the second century BC, and even then it was extremely rare.

[adsız]

That will mean that all people without blue eyes and blonde hair and pale skin are mixed. So how it's possible that i have blonde hair and some blue eyed man has black hair? That will mean all europeans are mixed.
And if we want to speak about purity we need to look at skeleton and skull too, but u didn't show any proof so your opinion is nonsense

We talk about "pure white"

Blonde hair,
blue eyes,
pale/pinky skin.. lacking any of these means impurity.

Sorry for you.

[No.Wolf]

We talk about "pure white"

Blonde hair,
blue eyes,
pale/pinky skin.. lacking any of these means impurity.

Sorry for you.

Yeah so you want to say me that East Baltic who have blonde hair blue eyes and pale skin are 100% European ? Even if they have some Asiatic influence? This is stupid

And if you believe this, proof it or you are just troll? Proud of your Turkish blood who came here only to told all europeans they're not europeans? :D Because if all you mentioned was true, Every person who live in Europe won't be European, because almost all had brown eyed gene even that ppl who are blue eyed.

[Hellenas]

Ultraviolet light has revealed that Greek statues had usually red brown eyes (http://io9.gizmodo.com/5616498/ultraviolet-light-reveals-how-ancient-greek-statues-really-looked).

That's just claims of a German and of his wife, never gave any proofs of what they claimed. Ultraviolet light... sure, just claims without providing proofs for these claims. Who trust a German and his wife anyway?

"Statues sometimes show traces of pigmentation; this includes different pigment types and is not uniform, representing the different hair colors among Greeks. Manzelli in a study of polychromatic Archaic Greek statuary [43] records an incidence of only 2% of yellow hair.(f) Manzelli also records that eye colors were black, “red,” and brown in the majority of surviving examples, with only a single example having green eyes. Mary Stieber [47] who studied the appearance of archaic statues of young women called korai also concludes that despite the presence of light hair in some examples, “it remains a fact that yellow hair is a rarity; for this reason alone it is tempting to infer that the percentage of its occurrence in female statues on the Acropolis is largely a reflection of its occurrence in real life.”

"A similar argument suggests that the “original” Greeks were fair, but they mixed with the darker inhabitants of Greece. The first people known to be Greek were the Mycenaeans. British archaeologist Oliver Dickinson noted that in Mycenaean art, virtually all people are drawn with dark hair and eyes [42] like ancient and modern Greeks:"

"Frescoes normally show eyes and hair as dark (one girl in the Xeste 3 fresco has reddish hair), skin conventionally as red-brown on males and white on females, as in Egypt. All are comparable with the colouring used on later Greek statues and paintings, and suggest that the early populations were similar in complexion and colouring to the ancient, and indeed the modern, Greeks, whom they might equally have resembled in variety of physical type."

"Plato, in the Republic mentions that statues’ eyes should be painted black so that they will have the appearance of eyes, and not some exotic color. He continues that by painting eyes in proportion (i.e., black) and all other parts of the body in proportion, then the result is “beautiful.” Hence, it will appear that Plato did not find any fault with dark eyes, he believed them to be beautiful and proposed that statues be painted naturally, i.e., with black eyes."

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

[Moinonplus]

You should forget about ancient Greeks being Nordic. Vase paintings do not support this thesis. Lundman stated that Greek god statues do not depict Nordics.

[adsız]

Yeah so you want to say me that East Baltic who have blonde hair blue eyes and pale skin are 100% European ? Even if they have some Asiatic influence? This is stupid

And if you believe this, proof it or you are just troll? Proud of your Turkish blood who came here only to told all europeans they're not europeans? :D Because if all you mentioned was true, Every person who live in Europe won't be European, because almost all had brown eyed gene even that ppl who are blue eyed.

I am not talking about being "european". i talk about whiteness..
This is white :
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/87/c8/2b/87c82bc9b99966303044dc10e450ca15.jpg

I could tell more about you if seen your pic though..

[Norse]

No blue eyes = Not european

What she said:D

[Grab the Gauge]

Yeah so you want to say me that East Baltic who have blonde hair blue eyes and pale skin are 100% European ? Even if they have some Asiatic influence? This is stupid

And if you believe this, proof it or you are just troll? Proud of your Turkish blood who came here only to told all europeans they're not europeans? :D Because if all you mentioned was true, Every person who live in Europe won't be European, because almost all had brown eyed gene even that ppl who are blue eyed.

Yes. Even blue eyed Arican Americans with Northern European admixture are Whiter than people with brown eyes. Please just face it, you're not white and you bleached your hair. Just accept this simple fact of life, and move on.

[Hellenas]

The eyes are not colored. Greek statues had inlaid eyes made of glass, gemstone, metal. These materials will not even hold a pigment;

Everyone can see their color... the pupil of the eye is black and the iris brown.

[Grab the Gauge]

You should forget about ancient Greeks being Nordic. Vase paintings do not support this thesis. Lundman stated that Greek god statues do not depict Nordics.

Alexander the Great was Nordic and blond.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/alexanderarticles/ss/031211-What-Color-Was-Alexander-The-Greats-Hair.htm

[Grab the Gauge]

Everyone can see their color...

It doesn't matter what the color of on object is when it wasn't intended to accurately represent the color of a living subject.

[No.Wolf]

Yes. Even blue eyed Arican Americans with Northern European admixture are Whiter than people with brown eyes. Please just face it, you're not white and you bleached your hair. Just accept this simple fact of life, and move on.

Yea, you are right, i am mix of negro, only from 1% european.. so i could basically go live in Africa.

[Norse]

Grab the Gauge is in a particularly nasty mood today. Race ignorants who wish to continue living in their bubble best stay out when the Grab is at it like this.

[DRUM]

we, descendants of natufian invaders, are not white

[No.Wolf]

I am not talking about being "european". i talk about whiteness..
This is white :
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/87/c8/2b/87c82bc9b99966303044dc10e450ca15.jpg

I could tell more about you if seen your pic though..

And i don't talk about whiteness, i am not albino...

[Wanderer]

A better question is, how did blue eyes come to Europe? Europeans were originally brown-eyed, but a blue eye mutation occurred in European hunter-gatherers and this feature was subsequently dispersed.

[Danaan]

Alexander the Great was Nordic and blond.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/alexanderarticles/ss/031211-What-Color-Was-Alexander-The-Greats-Hair.htm

Curly haired Nordic?

[Norse]

A better question is, how did blue eyes come to Europe? Europeans were originally brown-eyed, but a blue eye mutation occurred in European hunter-gatherers and this feature was subsequently dispersed.

A mutation? Or an inherited trait from neanderthals who had red hair and light eyes?

[щрбл]

You could ask the same question about any minority genes in Europeans e.g. that for digesting lactose.

Non blue eyes = negroid admixture
Lactose intolerance = Arab admixture
Straight hair = Mongoloid admixture

[Justalittlevisit]

and you bleached your hair

How can you be sure about that? There are many natural blondes with brown or hazel eyes.

The chance that Edda Goering was born from two blue-eyed parents is very small. Hermann Goering was blue-eyed, this is confirmed by a passport (https://www.welt.de/img/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/mobile126922188/8341629097-ci23x11-w1136/Goering-Pass-in-Auktion-von-Vermot-de-Pas.jpg) and the Nuremberg detention report. So, there is a chance that Emmy Goering was brown eyed. (I assume that Goering was the father.)

http://www.ard.de/image/444444/16x9/4788487533092125253/512

[Hellenas]

It doesn't matter what the color of on object is when it wasn't intended to accurately represent the color of a living subject.

What?

"Mary Stieber [47] who studied the appearance of archaic statues of young women called korai also concludes that despite the presence of light hair in some examples, “it remains a fact that yellow hair is a rarity; for this reason alone it is tempting to infer that the percentage of its occurrence in female statues on the Acropolis is largely a reflection of its occurrence in real life.”

"All are comparable with the colouring used on later Greek statues and paintings, and suggest that the early populations were similar in complexion and colouring to the ancient, and indeed the modern, Greeks, whom they might equally have resembled in variety of physical type."

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/


The Technique of Bronze Statuary in Ancient Greece

"The first method, which is also the earliest and simplest process, calls for a model fashioned in solid wax. This model is surrounded with clay and then heated in order to remove the wax and harden the clay. Next, the mold is inverted and molten metal poured into it. When the metal cools, the bronze-smith breaks open the clay model to reveal a solid bronze reproduction."

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/grbr/hd_grbr.htm

[Nurzat]

First peoples who came to Europe had brown eyes, also the Neolithic farmers

about the second question, obviously yes, brown eyed European don't mean non European admixiture

Neolithic DNA is not considered European, it's Mesopotamian. Mediterraneans and Balkans are mostly Mesopotamian/Levantine genetically. the rest of Europe is mostly European (hunter-gatherer + steppe DNA), with minor Neolithic genes

[Wanderer]

A mutation? Or an inherited trait from neanderthals who had red hair and light eyes?

I don't see how it would have come from Neanderthals when Europeans have, what, 1-2% Neanderthal ancestry? I have read it was a mutation that occurred somewhere in the timeframe of 6,000-10,000 years ago.

[Hellenas]

Neolithic DNA is not considered European, it's Mesopotamian. Mediterraneans and Balkans are mostly Mesopotamian/Levantine genetically. the rest of Europe is mostly European (hunter-gatherer + steppe DNA), with minor Neolithic genes

Lol, Neolithic considered European and can be found in all over Europe.

Distribution of the Early European Farmer (EEF) in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Neolithic_farmer_admixture.png

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Neolithic DNA is not considered European, it's Mesopotamian. Mediterraneans and Balkans are mostly Mesopotamian/Levantine genetically. the rest of Europe is mostly European (hunter-gatherer + steppe DNA), with minor Neolithic genes

I know

but the early WHGs was supposedly to be brown eyes, also the Steppe people

the thing is that don't exists "pure European", since was migrations from differents sides

also, one thing that I don't understand, is why just Europeans developed blue eyes, and North East Asians not

[PunhetaDeBacalhau]

The people that are most genetically European, Basques, are more brown eyed than blue eyed. By more genetically European, I mean have the most WHG, the first inhabitants of Europe. You can see it here, WHG is Villabruna-related:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=1330589433

I find it funny that some people here say that Early European Farmer DNA, which had some WHG since the beginning, today exists practically only in Europe and every European has quite a bit of DNA from them, is somehow less European than what the steppe brought. Ancient North Eurasian from the steppe got to Europe only 5000 years ago (around 4000 years after Neolithic farmers) and peaks in a ton of other populations before Europeans.

https://s26.postimg.org/t3eg4sz15/World_ANE_Admixture_Eurogenes_Basal_Rich_K7_Calc.j pg

This map doesn't even include Native Americans, which are 50% ANE. Steppe also brought some Caucasus admixture into Europe, which again is not really native to Europe and does not peak in Europe.

[Grab the Gauge]

The people that are most genetically European, Basques, are more brown eyed than blue eyed. By more genetically European, I mean have the most WHG, the first inhabitants of Europe. You can see it here, WHG is Villabruna-related:


LOL. Basques do not have the most WHG, and WHG were not the first inhabitants of Europe.

Villabruna was additionally pale skinned, light haired and blue eyed.

[Grab the Gauge]

How can you be sure about that? There are many natural blondes with brown or hazel eyes.

The chance that Edda Goering was born from two blue-eyed parents is very small. Hermann Goering was blue-eyed, this is confirmed by a passport (https://www.welt.de/img/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/mobile126922188/8341629097-ci23x11-w1136/Goering-Pass-in-Auktion-von-Vermot-de-Pas.jpg) and the Nuremberg detention report. So, there is a chance that Emmy Goering was brown eyed. (I assume that Goering was the father.)

http://www.ard.de/image/444444/16x9/4788487533092125253/512

She bleached her hair. 90% of blonde women have bleached their hair. You also bleached your hair.

[PunhetaDeBacalhau]

LOL. Basques do not have the most WHG, and WHG were not the first inhabitants of Europe.

Then who has more WHG according to you?


Villabruna was additionally pale skinned, light haired and blue eyed.

You don't need those particular 3 genes to have the most genes from Villabruna, as Basques show.

[Grab the Gauge]

I don't see how it would have come from Neanderthals when Europeans have, what, 1-2% Neanderthal ancestry?.

1-2% is the equivalent contribution of a great great great grandparent. Neanderthal and the even lesser Denisovan admixture is having an impact on non-African phenotype and epidemiology, regardless of whether blue eyes come from them or not.

http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms4584


http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/12/08/033928.full.pdf


http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7513/full/nature13408.html


Even common diseases come from Neanderthals:


http://www.the-scientist.com/article/47308/common-std-may-have-come-from-neanderthals


http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_384822.asp


http://www.bionews.org.uk/page_392577.asp

[Spyy]

"no blue eyes = not european"

- Sokrates

[Grab the Gauge]

Then who has more WHG according to you?

Northern Europeans have the most WHG according to science, not me.



You don't those particular 3 genes to have the most genes from Villabruna, as Basques show.

Basques do not have the most genes from Villabruna or any other paleolithic specimen. Basque people are descended from bronze age Dinaric and Mediterranan people who came way after the stone age.

[Fustan]

Neolithic population and Neanderthals?

[Grab the Gauge]

What?

"Mary Stieber [47] who studied the appearance of archaic statues of young women called korai also concludes that despite the presence of light hair in some examples, “it remains a fact that yellow hair is a rarity; for this reason alone it is tempting to infer that the percentage of its occurrence in female statues on the Acropolis is largely a reflection of its occurrence in real life.”

Sorry but an "I think" or an "I'm tempted to infer" doesn't stand up against scientific evidence; no one is concerned about archaic statues which are undoubtedly in a poor state of preservation, when there is overwhelming literary evidence that Greeks were blond during their most influential period.



"The first method, which is also the earliest and simplest process, calls for a model fashioned in solid wax. This model is surrounded with clay and then heated in order to remove the wax and harden the clay. Next, the mold is inverted and molten metal poured into it. When the metal cools, the bronze-smith breaks open the clay model to reveal a solid bronze reproduction."

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/grbr/hd_grbr.htm

This is structural modeling not visual modeling. The wax does not transfer the subjects hair color through the clay and on to the molten bronze.

[PunhetaDeBacalhau]

Northern Europeans have the most WHG according to science, not me.




Basques do not have the most genes from Villabruna or any other paleolithic specimen. Basque people are descended from bronze age Dinaric and Mediterranan people who came way after the stone age.

Tell that to Davidski from Eurogenes. I'm sure he'll take time off his day to listen to you trolling.

[Grab the Gauge]

Tell that to Davidski from Eurogenes. I'm sure he'll take time off his day to listen to you trolling.

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/European_hunter-gatherer_admixture.png

[Hellenas]

Sorry but an "I think" or an "I'm tempted to infer" doesn't stand up against scientific evidence; no one is concerned about archaic statues which are undoubtedly in a poor state of preservation, when there is overwhelming literary evidence that Greeks were blond during their most influential period.

Lol, the same Nordicist BS. Literal? That's just fantasy, they used rare hair color to attract audience's attention, some described some Heroes and Gods as "xanthos" but that doesn't mean in Greek ash blond as nordicists dream.

"The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer."

Carleton Stevens Coon(American Anthropologist)


ANTHROPOLOGICAL EVIDENCE

"Early anthropologists commonly believed that the Hellenes belonged principally to the Mediterranean(a) race. This was the view shared by Sergi [1] and Ripley [2]. In a more recent study of the problem of Race, John R. Baker in [5] says that later studies “do not appear to have disproved” these views."

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

The Vikings also described some of their Gods as dark haired and dark eyed.

Dark haired and dark eyed Northern Gods and people.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/226/dark-haired-eyed-northern-people


This is structural modeling not visual modeling. The wax does not transfer the subjects hair color through the clay and on to the molten bronze.

The ancient Greeks transfered their eye color to the statues which was the brown.

98% of Ancient Greek pottery depictions are dark haired/dark eyed.

http://www.theoi.com/Encyc_A.html

[Justalittlevisit]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be.

You used to say that Coon was right. But you don't believe what he said about depigmentation, huh?

[Grab the Gauge]

Lol, the same Nordicist BS. Literal? That's just fantasy, they used rare hair color to attract audience's attention, some described some Heroes and Gods as "xanthos" but that doesn't mean in Greek ash blond as nordicists dream.

Yes it does. You can deny this until you are blue in the face, but these people were blond.


"The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer."

Carleton Stevens Coon(American Anthropologist)

Again, a "probably" doesn't cut it here. Furthermore, Coon is not saying here that the ancient Greeks were not blond after Homer's time. He is only saying they weren't majority Nordic. They could have been majority blond Apines, Norics, etc. And, indeed, Coon stated that "Alpine" formed the majority of modern Greeks, not Mediterraneans, using Socrates as the archetype, who does not, in fact, have a southern European countenance.






http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

The Vikings also described some of their Gods as dark haired and dark eyed.

Dark haired and dark eyed Northern Gods and people.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/226/dark-haired-eyed-northern-people


98% of Ancient Greek pottery depictions are dark haired/dark eyed.

Only a tiny minority of Greek vessels would have had the luxury of blue pigment which was very expensive and had to be imported from Asia. Prior to pigment synthesization blue was a very difficult color to obtain. Most Greek vessels lack any real color at all, which is the norm for West Eurasian "art".

Most Greek vessel caricatures also have black skin. This isn't a reflection of physical reality but simply that these vessels are dichromatic art; pigment is extremely expensive and a vase with more than one color pigment applied would have been a luxury in those days, and it's unlikely to have been desired regardless as there was an enterprising religious cult movement against polychromatism that was rampaging across West Eurasia at the time.

https://www2.bc.edu/~archbala/ETb-Amphora.jpg



Dark haired and dark eyed Northern Gods and people.
http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thre...orthern-people

:rofl_002:

Paintings made in the 1800s by people like Marten Eskil Winge are not evidence of the religious practices of ancient Europeans; and black and white sketches from the same period are not evidence of swarth Gods. On the other hand we have actual literary and visual evidence from Greek's ancient times.

[Hellenas]

Yes it does. You can deny this until you are blue in the face, but these people were blond.

Again, a "probably" doesn't cut it here. Furthermore, Coon is not saying here that the ancient Greeks were not blond after Homer's time. He is only saying they weren't majority Nordic. They could have been majority blond Apines, Norics, etc. And, indeed, Coon stated that "Alpine" formed the majority of modern Greeks, not Mediterraneans, using Socrates as the archetype, who does not, in fact, have a southern European countenance.

Ha , ha, ha ...Ancient Greeks were blond Alpines, Norics coming from Scandinavia and not Mediterraneans at all.

Here get some lessons of what they were from J.L. Angel: http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/Hellas1/JLAngelTABLE_zps23b696eb.gif


Only a tiny minority of Greek vessels would have had the luxury of blue pigment which was very expensive and had to be imported from Asia. Prior to pigment synthesization blue was a very difficult color to obtain. Most Greek vessels lack any real color at all, which is the norm for West Eurasian "art". Most Greek vessel caricatures also have black skin.


This isn't a reflection of physical reality but simply that these vessels are dichromatic art; pigment is extremely expensive and a vase with more than one color pigment applied would have been a luxury in those days, because of its great cost and the distaste for polychromatism in white societies.

https://www2.bc.edu/~archbala/ETb-Amphora.jpg

:rofl_002:

Paintings made in the 1800s by people like Marten Eskil Winge are not evidence of the religious practices of ancient Europeans; and black and white sketches from the same period are not evidence of swarth Gods. On the other hand we have actual literary and visual evidence from Greek's ancient times.


If ancient Greeks wanted to make more of vases depictions looking like that:

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/Northern%20admixed%20Greeks/84aa9917-553a-4a29-8d1d-2e583d9b1cf7_zpspbcs6xqu.jpghttp://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/Northern%20admixed%20Greeks/d9b7157e-1638-4434-a1a4-0f5fe1bde51f_zpsop3x7ngb.jpghttp://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Hellenas1977/Northern%20admixed%20Greeks/729bffa2-dcab-4565-86f9-1cbb4e40ba57_zpshkuccfed.jpg

http://mystudios.com/art/ancient/greek/greek-party.jpg

http://www.beazley.ox.ac.uk/dictionary/Dict/image/Antaios2.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LLKKstBDjug/VviCGb1q7tI/AAAAAAAAbP0/nJ_AVZSe_8gBt7doGZ1d6VPsBZKXch44Q/s640/%25CE%25BE%25CF%2581%25CF%2584%25CE%25BE%25CF%2584 %25CF%2581.JPG

More: http://hellas2010.proboards.com/thread/224/fair-haired-depictions-ancient-greeks?page=1&scrollTo=355

They could make but they didn't.


black and white sketches from the same period are not evidence of swarth Gods.

End of discussion with you blond superbrachycephalous red-skinned orangutan nordicist. I am losing my time with you.


People can get here an idea of how ancient and modern Greeks looked/looks like: http://hellas2010.proboards.com/

[Grab the Gauge]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NLVJQpHIu-c/TjGg6Zwq1VI/AAAAAAAAAKE/JQN3bNiotwM/s1600/66.jpg



Pyrrha the mother of Hellen (the eponymous founder of the Hellenes) had red-golden hair (flavam religas comam) as described by Horace (Carm. i. 5) while her son Xuthus also derived his name from his fair hair (xanthe or xanthos). The ancient Greek lyric poet Pindar wrote that the hair of the Achaeans (Danaoi) was blonde (Nem. ix. 18). [1] [2] According to the renowned scholar Henry Liddell in his A Greek-English Lexicon (Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1940) xanthos is defined as a yellow, of various shades, freq. with a tinge of red, brown, auburn. The extent of ''the shade of'' depends on the ancient Greek region or locality, since different shades of fair or yellow were known. An ancient fragment from Theophastrus for example reveals that the Spartans knew xanthon to be a whitish-yellow (e.g. fair or platinum blonde). [3] Homer however applied xanthos to a range of non-dark hair colours: auburn to blonde, chestnut (reddish-brown) and fulvious (dull yellow) shades. [4] Cambridge Ancient History (1928, vol. 2, pp. 22-23) thus defines the term xanthos as any fair shade short of a dark colour (e.g. blonde to auburn).

Classicists however have easily demonstrated that in most instances the word xanthos is applied in ancient Greek literature to standard yellow or blonde. [5]

Bacchylides wrote that the hair of the Spartans was blonde (Dith. xx. 2) while also noting of the golden hair of athletes at the Nemean Games (Ep. ix. 23). The Spartans were the Dorians (Heracleidae) who claimed descent from Heracles.

[Grab the Gauge]

superbrachycephalous

Modern Greece is supposedly brachycephalic. You may be brachycephalic...

[Hellenas]

Classicists however have easily demonstrated that in most instances the word xanthos is applied in ancient Greek literature to standard yellow or blonde. [5]

"We must also dispel the notion that xanthos always refers to yellow hair, or that purros refers to purely red hair. For the former, we note that Aristophanes used xanthizein to describe roasting meat, which of course does not turn yellow. Additionally, Strabo uses xanthotrichein and leukotrichein (making hair xanthon and making hair “white”) indicating that xanthon was a darker shade than extremely fair hair. George Cedrenus uses it to describe the eyes of the Virgin (xanthommaton); eyes are rarely yellow, unless jaundiced, which seems unlikely in this case. In modern Greek it may be used to describe any color short of black [22]. In ancient Greek, according to Barbara Fowler [28] was any color short of black or dark brown, while Wace [22] believes that it may have been at most auburn. Color terms are notoriously relative; xanthos may only be taken to mean the fair end of the Greek hair continuum, not blond. This impression is enhanced by the descriptions of northern European hair as polios (gray, usually of old people) or leukon (white) to be found in Greek literature (Diodorus Siculus, Adamantius Judaeus)."

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/


Modern Greece is supposedly brachycephalic. You may be brachycephalic...

Greece mostly is low brachycephalic, I am dolycho and you are super brachy.

[Dandelion]

If you have brown eyes you're a wog.

[Grab the Gauge]

Greece mostly is low brachycephalic, I am dolycho and you are super brachy.

I highly doubt this.

[Hellenas]

In Greece we use that:

http://arive.gr/subs/thoughts/free/evil_eye/2.jpg

It's a talisman that protects from the evil eye and the evil eye is usually blue for us...

[Hellenas]

I highly doubt this.

As if I care what a nordicist doubts.

[Numidia]

light eyes is a minority in europe

http://genetics.thetech.org/sites/default/files/EuropeLightEyes.gif

[Peterski]

Here is how it was changing over time:

Upper Paleolithic Europe = mostly brown eyes
Epipaleolithic Europe = both brown and light eyes
Mesolithic Europe = mostly light eyes
Neolithic Europe = mostly brown eyes
Post-Neolithic Europe = both light and brown eyes

Those changes roughly correlate with the "Ages of Man" in Europe:

http://i.imgur.com/zHPzd95.png

Blue eyes are caused by a mutation called OCA2/HERC2, rs12913832.

So far, the oldest confirmed cases of carriers of this mutation, were:

- hunter-gatherer from Villabruna in Italy, who lived ca. 14,180-13,780 years ago
- hunter-gatherer from Grotte du Bichon in Switzerland, who lived ca. 13,770-13,560 years ago
- hunter-gatherer from Satsurblia Cave in Georgia, who lived ca. 13,380-13,130 years ago

[EL_BARBARO]

No blue eyes = Not european


No blue eyes = Not Europeans = Aliens (likely armed and dangerous).

[Peterski]

To sum up:

Brown eyes came with first humans who settled in Europe. Selection for blue eyes happened around the Last Ice Age. After the Last Ice Age, most of Europeans were blue-eyed. Neolithic Europeans (descended from Greek and Anatolian hunter-gatherers) were brown-eyed. Bronze Age Indo-Europeans had a mix of brown, blue and green eyes. So no - having brown eyes does not mean, that someone is not fully European.

You could have all ancestors from Europe during the last 10,000 years (or even more), and still be brown-eyed.

[Norse]

To sum up:

Brown eyes came with first humans who settled in Europe. Selection for blue eyes happened around the Last Ice Age. After the Last Ice Age, most of Europeans were blue-eyed. Neolithic Europeans (descended from Greek and Anatolian hunter-gatherers) were brown-eyed. Bronze Age Indo-Europeans had a mix of brown, blue and green eyes. So no - having brown eyes does not mean, that someone is not fully European.

You could have all ancestors from Europe during the last 10,000 years (or even more), and still be brown-eyed.

No, because modern brown eyes are from Anatolia.

[Grab the Gauge]

In Greece we use that:

http://arive.gr/subs/thoughts/free/evil_eye/2.jpg

It's a talisman that protects from the evil eye and the evil eye is usually blue for us...

And just look at how much it has protected you. This talisman is common everywhere there is failure.

[Peterski]

No, because modern brown eyes are from Anatolia.

Even if farmers came to Europe from Anatolia, that was 10,000 years ago.

And they could actually come from Greece, rather than from Anatolia.

We have Mesolithic DNA from Greece, and it was similar to Early Neolithic.

=========================

Here are mtDNA haplos typical for Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic Europeans:

Western European hunter-gatherers:

U5b (could be found in areas from Iberia to Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia)
U8 (including U8a and U8c)
U6
U5a2

Eastern European hunter-gatherers:

U5a1 (could be found in areas from Russia to Sweden and Germany)
U4
U2 (including U2e and U2d2)
C1g

Greek hunter-gatherers (only two samples, from Theopetra):

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

K1c

It seems that Greek hunter-gatherers were different than WHG, SHG and EHG.

Early European Farmers could be descended from Greek hunter-gatherers.

But we need more samples from Mesolithic Greece to check if it was the case.

[Numidia]

In Greece we use that:

http://arive.gr/subs/thoughts/free/evil_eye/2.jpg

It's a talisman that protects from the evil eye and the evil eye is usually blue for us...

we use the same with blue eyes in north africa

http://mouvementdessarrasins.unblog.fr/files/2014/01/oeildajal.gif

[Grab the Gauge]

To sum up:

Brown eyes came with first humans who settled in Europe. Selection for blue eyes happened around the Last Ice Age. After the Last Ice Age, most of Europeans were blue-eyed. Neolithic Europeans (descended from Greek and Anatolian hunter-gatherers) were brown-eyed. Bronze Age Indo-Europeans had a mix of brown, blue and green eyes. So no - having brown eyes does not mean, that someone is not fully European.

You could have all ancestors from Europe during the last 10,000 years (or even more), and still be brown-eyed.

The "first humans" who "settled Europe" were from the Levant. They descended from a Skhul-Qafzeh/Manot-like population and they were no more closely related to modern Europeans than they were to East Asians. The only "Europeans" can be the ones who were derived in Europe. That means blue eyed, lactose tolerant people. As I said before, merely existing in Europe means nothing. It's not that easy. You don't get a free pass just for being born in the continent.

[Hellenas]

And just look at how much it has protected you. This talisman is common everywhere there is failure.

It's common everywhere where your depigmented orangutan genes has failed to flow.

[Grab the Gauge]

It's common everywhere where your depigmented orangutan genes has failed to flow.

Nope. It's common where waste management fails to flow.

[sweetalmonds]

Hello i want to ask you where and how brown eyes appeared in Europe ?? Could person with brown eyes be classified as pure European or is there some non-european influence? Thank you for your opinion

Brown eyes appeared in Europe when the first humans arrived. So yes, a person can be both pure European and brown-eyed.

[Hellenas]

Nope. It's common where waste management fails to flow.

You are the waste for us that's why we have avoid mixing much with your barbarian kind in all of our history.

No shut your mouth and don't speak to me again.

[Peterski]

I mean Aurignacians. The first humans who successfully settled in Europe.

[Peterski]

That means blue eyed, lactose tolerant people.

Lactose tolerance is still a much later development than blue eyes. Blue eyes were common already ca. 13,000 years ago.

As for lactose tolerance, until the Bronze Age no Europeans were lactose tolerant, according to aDNA samples tested so far.

[Grab the Gauge]

Brown eyes appeared in Europe when the first humans arrived. So yes, a person can be both pure European and brown-eyed.

First of all, the first humans in Europe were Homo Erectus and Homo Georgicus. There were several other species of humans living there for over a million years. As you said the "first humans" arrived in Europe from somwhere else. That place was Afro-Eurasia. They were not pure and not European. They were Afro-Eurasisn Neanderthaloids. They were East Asian-shifted relative to modern Europeans. Just give it up already. You can't be European and brown eyed. You're not European.

[Dema]

Brown eyes are the only original human eye color. Light eyes are usually a weak mutations, that are prone to sickness and cant endure as much light as brown original human eyes can.

Light eyes most likely come out of a incest but that is still to be studied. One thing is sure, the only original and most healthy human eye color is brown. We all had brown eyes once, until unfortunately weaker mutations appeared. But they are nice to see so i dont have anything against them.

[Grab the Gauge]

Lactose tolerance is still a much later development than blue eyes.

Until the Bronze Age no Europeans were lactose tolerant, according to ancient DNA samples tested so far.

Again, it doesn't matter. It takes time to derive new features. People didn't just become European the moment they set foot on Europe. Lactose tolerance is a derived feature of Europeans.

[Peterski]

First of all, the first humans in Europe were Homo Erectus and Homo Georgicus.

They were not humans. You mean hominins.


Lactose tolerance is a derived feature of Europeans.

Nope. It is a derived feature of people who lived in areas where it was difficult to survive without milk.

LT is also common in several areas outside of Europe.

[Grab the Gauge]

Brown eyes are the only original human eye color. Light eyes are usually a weak mutations, that are prone to sickness and cant endure as much light as brown original human eyes can.


:lol00002:

Europe doesn't have much light to endure. Blue eyes are a European adaptation to European darkness. Blue eyes see better in the dark European landscape and also at night. No blue eyes = not European.

[LoLeL]

Brown eyes are the only original human eye color. Light eyes are usually a weak mutations, that are prone to sickness and cant endure as much light as brown original human eyes can.

Light eyes most likely come out of a incest but that is still to be studied. One thing is sure, the only original and most healthy human eye color is brown. We all had brown eyes once, until unfortunately weaker mutations appeared. But they are nice to see so i dont have anything against them.

Is this your personal discovery or a scientific fact? :icon_ask:

[Hellenas]

Aristotle in the Eudemian Ethics mentions that “some men are blue eyed (glaukoi) and others black eyed (melanommatoi) because a particular part of them is of a particular quality” without assigning any moral superiority on either of the types. In the same passage, he continues that the blue-eyed man (glaukos) does not see clearly, an error which illustrates that he did not believe in a superiority of blue-eyed individuals. Indeed, the Greeks in general were somewhat repulsed by blue eyes, because of their rarity and association with disease (cataract and glaucoma), as [39], a complete study of all the uses of the adjective (glaukos) shows:

Instinctive fear of blindness must be very strong among all sighted human beings, so their immediate reaction to such an eye will manifest itself in a repulsive frisson. Men will wish to ward off a similar fate from themselves. Healthy eyes of that colour therefore have something unnatural about them, and their relative infrequence in Greece proper (and, indeed, in Crete), will have aroused a similar instinctive hostility. Fear of the unknown and of the unusual would contribute to the notion that possessors of such eyes must be malign; hence the long association of blue and the Evil Eye which has lasted in Greece and the surrounding area until modern times. Not surprisingly, these feelings of hostility would be strengthened by knowledge that foreigners from the cold North - those dangerous, incursive, un-Greek people - had blue eyes.

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

[Grab the Gauge]

They were not humans. You mean hominins.



Nope. It is a derived feature of people who lived in areas where it was difficult to survive without milk.

LT is also common in several areas outside of Europe.

Any member of the genus Homo is human.

Non-Europeans do not have as many copies of lactose tolerance alleles and therefore their lactose tolerance is lesser than ours. They also do not consume large quantities of milk for survival but slight quanities of alcoholic milk which has destroyed the lactase by fermentation.

[Dema]

:lol00002:

Europe doesn't have much light to endure. Blue eyes are a European adaptation to European darkness. Blue eyes see better in the dark European landscape and also at night. No blue eyes = not European.

Then go live under the groud, what can i tell you ; D

http://www.bio-gaertner.de/sites/default/files/images/Andere/Maulwurf.jpg

[Grab the Gauge]

Aristotle in the Eudemian Ethics mentions that “some men are blue eyed (glaukoi) and others black eyed (melanommatoi) because a particular part of them is of a particular quality” without assigning any moral superiority on either of the types. In the same passage, he continues that the blue-eyed man (glaukos) does not see clearly, an error which illustrates that he did not believe in a superiority of blue-eyed individuals. Indeed, the Greeks in general were somewhat repulsed by blue eyes, because of their rarity and association with disease (cataract and glaucoma), as [39], a complete study of all the uses of the adjective (glaukos) shows:

Instinctive fear of blindness must be very strong among all sighted human beings, so their immediate reaction to such an eye will manifest itself in a repulsive frisson. Men will wish to ward off a similar fate from themselves. Healthy eyes of that colour therefore have something unnatural about them, and their relative infrequence in Greece proper (and, indeed, in Crete), will have aroused a similar instinctive hostility. Fear of the unknown and of the unusual would contribute to the notion that possessors of such eyes must be malign; hence the long association of blue and the Evil Eye which has lasted in Greece and the surrounding area until modern times. Not surprisingly, these feelings of hostility would be strengthened by knowledge that foreigners from the cold North - those dangerous, incursive, un-Greek people - had blue eyes.

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

Wrong again. Anti-Europeanists always have to stretch the truth to fit their delusional fancy.


To the ancient Greeks, glaukos occasionally described diseased eyes, but more typically described healthy irides, which were glaucous (light blue, gray, or green). The ancient Greeks would probably have described a (normal) green iris or (diseased) green pupil as glaukos.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4321651/?report=classic

[Dema]

:lol00002:

Europe doesn't have much light to endure. Blue eyes are a European adaptation to European darkness. Blue eyes see better in the dark European landscape and also at night. No blue eyes = not European.

Europa Europa Europa, now stop Europa guy and read this:

In humans, the inheritance pattern followed by blue eyes is considered similar to that of a recessive trait (in general, eye color inheritance is considered a polygenic trait, meaning that it is controlled by the interactions of several genes, not just one).[14] In 2008, new research tracked down a single genetic mutation that leads to blue eyes. "Originally, we all had brown eyes,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color

Do you understand now ??? Only brown color is original, you are just a fucking mutation, like teenage mutant ninja turtle, now gtfo.





Is this your personal discovery or a scientific fact? :icon_ask:

Look answers above.

[Peterski]

Do you understand now ??? Only brown color is original, you are just a fucking mutation

In fact, everyone who doesn't look like these, is a fucking mutant:

1) Jebel Irhoud (lived 160,000 years ago):

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e9/6c/e5/e96ce50ddba1a128c821a2992cd830e1.jpg

2) Qafzeh-9 (lived 100,000 years ago):

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00220/H_sapiens_female_f1_220449b.jpg

https://assets.rbl.ms/5130904/980x.jpg

They were the original, non-mutant anatomically modern humans.

[Grab the Gauge]

Europa Europa Europa, now stop Europa guy and read this:

In humans, the inheritance pattern followed by blue eyes is considered similar to that of a recessive trait (in general, eye color inheritance is considered a polygenic trait, meaning that it is controlled by the interactions of several genes, not just one).[14] In 2008, new research tracked down a single genetic mutation that leads to blue eyes. "Originally, we all had brown eyes,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color

Do you understand now ??? Only brown color is original, you are just a fucking mutation, like teenage mutant ninja turtle, now gtfo.






Look answers above.

"Originally, we were not all European"

http://i.imgur.com/YhB7Lay.jpg?1

[Dema]

In fact,,,,


[SIZE=6]".....

Ok mutants suite yourself, we were talking about a human eye color.
So its not that brown eyes were brought by someone to Europe but you mutated and most of light eyes are weak. Im done with mutants..

http://static.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-2-casting.jpg

[Peterski]

Homo rudolfensis, the epitome of non-mutant (lived ca. 1,800,000 years go, before all of these terrible mutations happened):

https://assets.rbl.ms/5130899/980x.jpg

[Hellenas]

Wrong again. Anti-Nordicists always have to stretch the truth to fit their delusional fancy.

Hey, Nordicist pig, 99% of the planet is anti-Nordicist, not just Dienekes. You represent nothing and for no one, just Pangermanic BS...



To the ancient Greeks, glaukos occasionally described diseased eyes, but more typically described healthy irides, which were glaucous (light blue, gray, or green). The ancient Greeks would probably have described a (normal) green iris or (diseased) green pupil as glaukos.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4321651/?report=classic

Glaukos other times described diseased eyes and others light eyes, Dienekes didn't said the opposite.

"Fear of the unknown and of the unusual would contribute to the notion that possessors of such eyes must be malign; hence the long association of blue and the Evil Eye which has lasted in Greece and the surrounding area until modern times. Not surprisingly, these feelings of hostility would be strengthened by knowledge that foreigners from the cold North - those dangerous, incursive, un-Greek people - had blue eyes."

Maxwell-Stuart, P.G., 1981, Studies in Greek colour terminology, vol.1 “Glaukos”, Leiden : Brill

[Grab the Gauge]

light eyes are weak.]


Blue eyes is the color of strength. History doesn't lie. Now that America's government is becoming blue eyed again, we will avert the disastrous fate of the Greeks and the Romans.

[No.Wolf]

Ok mutants suite yourself, we were talking about a human eye color.
So its not that brown eyes were brought by someone to Europe but you mutated and most of light eyes are weak. Im done with mutants..

http://static.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-2-casting.jpg

Grab the Gauge is ignorant, don't pay any attention to him.
Btw. I believe the Coon's theory of depigmetation of Mediterranean race which make Nordics. Because you can see it on body hair.. Pure Nordics have tendency to have less body hair. But if you live in Northern Europe you should have more body hair, right? So if Grab the Gauge is saying that brown eyed ppl are not Europeans, even Nordids are not Europeans. Because their forebears must had brown eyes.

[Peterski]

No.Wolf,

Blue eyes are caused by one mutation, which emerged at least 15,000 years ago, or even earlier.

13,000 - 14,000 years ago it was already widespread - from Caucasus to Western Europe.

All people with this mutation are descended from one prehistoric person, who originally had it.

There is no such thing as depigmentations of eyes happening independently in unrelated populations.

[Hellenas]

Blue eyes is the color of strength. History doesn't lie. Now that America's government is becoming blue eyed again, we will avert the disastrous fate of the Greeks and the Romans.

http://old.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/images/issue/420/mad-love_420.jpg

[No.Wolf]

No.Wolf,

Blue eyes are caused by one mutation, which emerged at least 15,000 years ago, or even earlier.

13,000 - 14,000 years ago it was already widespread - from Caucasus to Western Europe.

All people with this mutation are descended from one prehistoric person, who originally had it.

There is no such thing as depigmentations of eyes happening independently in unrelated populations.

But all people even that who doesn't have blue eyes are descended from this person, because even if i myself don't have blue eyes, my mother has and if u have blue eyes that doesn't mean you didn't have any brown eyed forebears, So basically all Europeans must have blue and brown eyed gene even if they have different color of eyes.

[Peterski]

You can have either zero copies of blue eyed mutation, one copy of it, or two copies.

You will have blue eyes only if you get two copies. You probably have one copy.

[No.Wolf]

You can have either zero copies of blue eyed mutation, one copy of it, or two copies.

You will have blue eyes only if you get two copies. You probably have one copy.

That's not truth, i know ppl who have the same parents and one have blue eyes and other brown or any other color of eyes, I even know person who has gipsy forebears and has blue eyes but his sister has brown eyes.

[Grab the Gauge]

That's not truth, i know ppl who have the same parents and one have blue eyes and other brown or any other color of eyes, I even know person who has gipsy forebears and has blue eyes but his sister has brown eyes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event

[No.Wolf]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-paternity_event

Do you feel bad that even gipsy could have blue eyes and you're not superior? And your theory fell down like a lego?

[Peterski]

That's not truth, i know ppl who have the same parents and one have blue eyes and other brown or any other color of eyes

You can have GG (two copies of the mutation), AG (one copy) or AA (zero):

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs12913832

You inherit one allele from your mother and one from your father.

So probably your mother is GG and your father is AG.

And you are AG (you inherited A from father and G from mother).

Your brother or sister could inherit GG (G from father and G from mother).

In such case you will be brown-eyed and your brother or sister, blue-eyed.

[No.Wolf]

You can have GG (two copies of the mutation), AG (one copy) or AA (zero):

https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs12913832

You inherit one allele from your mother and one from your father.

So probably your mother is GG and your father is AG.

And you are AG (you inherited A from father and G from mother).

Your brother or sister could inherit GG (G from father and G from mother).

In such case you will be brown-eyed and your brother or sister, blue-eyed.

So in short-term just say... having blue-eyes or brown eyes mean nothing. Because it's random even ppl who are blue eyed and claim yourself Pure European Nordics could have brown eyed forebears.

[Dema]

He says blue eyes mutated because in europe there is less day and more night but when these days come in places like Scandinavia, everything is super white and reflective and light eyes are super bad in these kinds of environments, some of them are almost blind. While brown eyes can endure this much better and relatively see better in this situation.

Anyways question is what do you do then, my mutant European boy, do you go under the ground or you praise the god he invented sun glasses so you can see something... My superior mutant : D

[JBoscherville]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be. This is not an insult to brown featured people; just a recognition of fact. There's nothing wrong about having brown features or not being white. And by blue eyes I mean very brightly, burning blue. No grey and pale blue eyes.

We should really just tell the truth, that truth being that whites or Europeans have never existed in any kind of pure form. In fact calling yourself white or European is in itself just a form of defensive OWD created because people like Hellenas just can't accept their Afroasiatic (emphasis on the Afro) origins. Sad.

[Hellenas]

because people like Hellenas just can't accept their Afroasiatic (emphasis on the Afro) origins. Sad.

Sad is that a monkey like you care only in the "afroasiatic" origins of other Europeans and can't accept his African monkey(with much emphasis on that!!!) origins. My ancestors are neolithic and paleolithic Europeans, you are the one who can't accept that you are and you still behave like your monkey african ancestors and even worse. Now get your banana and back on your tree orangutan.

[sweetalmonds]

Sad is that a monkey like you care only in the "afroasiatic" origins of other Europeans and can't accept his African monkey(with much emphasis on that!!!) origins. My ancestors are upper paleolithic and neolithic Europeans, you are the one who can't accept that you are and you still behave like your monkey african ancestors and even worse. Now get your banana and back on your tree orangutan.


https://media.giphy.com/media/bQBvh9zjWgrra/giphy.gif

[Hellenas]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/22/2208644f7e663178685048f0188ffc2b8bb8fc244b7a97a91d 762d5c9749f1fd.jpg

Piss on your pants all you want, just don't bring them under my nose.

[Peterski]

everything is super white and reflective and light eyes are super bad in these kinds of environments, some of them are almost blind. While brown eyes can endure this much better and relatively see better in this situation.

LOL, there is no evidence that there are any differences in functioning between blue and brown eyes.

[Insuperable]

You can have either zero copies of blue eyed mutation, one copy of it, or two copies.

You will have blue eyes only if you get two copies. You probably have one copy.

Is it not possible albeit less likely to be AG and be blue eyed?

[Petalpusher]

Is it not possible albeit less likely to be AG and be blue eyed?

It's possible but rare, i ve seen it in the anthrogenica eye project. There are other more minor SNP's that come into play, which in some cases might still produce blue eyes, still the vast majority of people with blue eyes are GG, it's well predicted by genotype with Hirisplex fe.

[cosmoo]

:lol00002:

Europe doesn't have much light to endure. Blue eyes are a European adaptation to European darkness. Blue eyes see better in the dark European landscape and also at night. No blue eyes = not European.

If light eyes are meant to see better in dark, then they are actually a disadvantage in extreme winters, as you would get snow blindness. That's why you don't see any blue-eyed Eskimos and native Siberians, even though they live in areas without lots of sunlight.
If light eyes are indeed of adaptative origin (I highly doubt that they are- they are most probably just a non-functional trait), then they are most likely adaptation of forest-dwelling populations in more northern areas without much snowfall, so no surprise light eyes show up after Ice Age ended in ancient samples.

[Lucas]

Light eyes were spread to some extent because of sexual selection, among other things. Most people forget it.

[Lucas]

http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Frost_06.html

[Milo]

blue eyes+pink nipples=european

[Grab the Gauge]

If light eyes are meant to see better in dark, then they are actually a disadvantage in extreme winters, as you would get snow blindness. That's why you don't see any blue-eyed Eskimos and native Siberians, even though they live in areas without lots of sunlight.

Eskimos and North Asian aboriginals have a limited gene pool from extreme isolation and bottlenecking. Assuming that x can't be y because Eskimos weren't x is faulty. Not all populations are going to be able to follow the same evolutionary trajectory.

A much better comparison would be to other animals -- almost all nocturnal carnivorous animals have light eyes regardless of what color they are. Felines, wolves, owls, all very light eyed.

Dark eyes aren't a guaranteed protection from snowblindness, either. There are plenty of accounts of dsrk eyed people getting snowblind. The Eskimo also apparently found it necessary to manufacture snow goggles to protect them from blindness. Clearly some cultural intervention was necessary for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_goggles






If light eyes are indeed of adaptative origin (I highly doubt that they are- they are most probably just a non-functional trait), then they are most likely adaptation of forest-dwelling populations in more northern areas without much snowfall, so no surprise light eyes show up after Ice Age ended in ancient samples.

We don't know what the eye color of ice age Europeans were. The only Upper Paleolithic specimens sampled so far (Oase, Ust-Ishim, Kostenki) are too early to be considered European; these were Afro-Asiatic people who had much more recent southerly origins.

[Lucas]

Dark eyes aren't a guaranteed protection from snowblindness, either. There are plenty of accounts of dsrk eyed people getting snowblind. The Eskimo also apparently found it necessary to manufacture snow goggles to protect them from blindness.
.

Or mongolian fold is the some protection from glare also.

[Journeyman26]

lol if you think think blue or brown eyes "evolved" to fit some adaptive niche. Brown pigment in eyes is a result of several functional pigment genes throughout the genome.. Blue eyes happen when many of these genes are non-functional due to recessive/rare mutations. Founder effects (small populations) and relative reproductive isolation increased the proportion of these recessive genes in certain populations (i.e those in Europe, especially Northern Europe). Sexual selection then took over.

Protection from snow Blindness, glare etc. in either brown or blue eyes in nonsense. We aren't like other animals. The moment proto-humans started picking up tools and using deductive reasoning "natural selection" in the purest sense shaping our features went out the window. E.g. Hmm its bright right now, maybe ill hunt at dawn or dusk. Hmm the animals are only out when the sun is at its highest? Maybe I will create traps, hoods or use hunting animals to make up for my shortcomings. Hmm its cold out and I don't have claws/teeth of other predators.. well I am gonna skin that sheep and hit stuff with rocks. Changed our selection targets from mainly physical traits like other animals to cerebral traits.

[Kriptc06]

Non blue eyes = negroid admixture
Lactose intolerance = Arab admixture
Straight hair = Mongoloid admixture

shit mate i am the three of them, arab sandnigger, mongrel and nigger

i blame the turks

[Didriksson]

Ofc you can have brown eyes and be fully European.

[Didriksson]

Brown eyes are native to Europe and it's due to mutations caused by different factors, like weather and others that caused the eyes to change colour. Using the logics that brown eyes are not European a question comes to my mind where would you place the green eyed people?

[Didriksson]

Non blue eyes = negroid admixture
Lactose intolerance = Arab admixture
Straight hair = Mongoloid admixture

Using your logics I am all but European and I still bet I'm more white than you...

[Antimage]

If you deviate in any respect from this archetype, you are not a White Man.

http://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/neil-armstrong-4.jpg

[Styrian Mujo]

Brown eyes are a sign of non-whiteness. Hazel or green eyes are a sign of miscegenation. Blues eyes are a sign of purity.

Not really. I have visible neolithic Mediterranean and Roman Imperial Afro-Asiatic slave admixture and yet I have blue eyes. Many Mediterranean people can have blue eyes but that does not mean they are pure Europeans by any means.

[cosmoo]

A much better comparison would be to other animals -- almost all nocturnal carnivorous animals have light eyes regardless of what color they are. Felines, wolves, owls, all very light eyed.
Correlation does not equal causation. Most of animals you mentioned do have high ratio of dark eyes. In fact, the only mammals that consistently have blue eyes live in subtropical areas. For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-eyed_black_lemur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-eyed_spotted_cuscus



We don't know what the eye color of ice age Europeans were. The only Upper Paleolithic specimens sampled so far (Oase, Ust-Ishim, Kostenki) are too early to be considered European; these were Afro-Asiatic people who had much more recent southerly origins.
We do know that even later Upper Palaeolithic specimens of Europe all had brown eyes, according to genetic research (I myself am quite suspicious of it, especially since it claims dark skin also): https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/phenotype-snps-from-ice-age-europe/

[LoLeL]

What about blue/green eyed people in Asia? Do they have European ancestors?

[Petalpusher]

We do know that even later Upper Palaeolithic specimens of Europe all had brown eyes, according to genetic research (I myself am quite suspicious of it, especially since it claims dark skin also): https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/phenotype-snps-from-ice-age-europe/

It didn't exist yet, not a long time ago we thought it didn't emerge before 10 000 BC around the Black sea, it was wrong as Villabruna pushes this back to 14k in Europe, also possibly Ranchot, Falkenstein and some other low coverage. By the mesolithic they all had blue eyes as it took some time to select. On the other hand, there s no clear pattern for blond hair in these ages, Gokhem even has the highest prediction for light hair and she s a neolithic, it seems like something localized in Motala (as Gokhem mixes with Motala), though they all have different hair even in the Motala family, but then maybe some of it took hold in post BA cultures, just like blue eyes but more recently.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Blue eyes is a gypsy trait.

[Linebacker]

Brown eyes are from Africa


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMS5vKarzO0

[GoneWithTheWind]

Brown eyes are native to Europe and it's due to mutations caused by different factors, like weather and others that caused the eyes to change colour. Using the logics that brown eyes are not European a question comes to my mind where would you place the green eyed people?

Light eyes is just a lack of melanin. Like light skin and light hair. Ive even seen syrians and kurds with blue eyes and even ashkalis

[GoneWithTheWind]

:lol00002:

Europe doesn't have much light to endure. Blue eyes are a European adaptation to European darkness. Blue eyes see better in the dark European landscape and also at night. No blue eyes = not European.

Whats european?


Did brunette european people with brown eyes scored 100% european on 23andme? i doubt

Yes they do. We have Albanian examples. 23andme tests only like 500 years back anyway


Neolithic DNA is not considered European, it's Mesopotamian. Mediterraneans and Balkans are mostly Mesopotamian/Levantine genetically. the rest of Europe is mostly European (hunter-gatherer + steppe DNA), with minor Neolithic genes

So steppe people and hunter gatherers sprouted out of the ground? They came from outside of Europe too.

[Grab the Gauge]

Correlation does not equal causation. Most of animals you mentioned do have high ratio of dark eyes. In fact, the only mammals that consistently have blue eyes live in subtropical areas. For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-eyed_black_lemur
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-eyed_spotted_cuscus

I'm afraid those animals do indeed very light eyes. Lighter than any human brown eye. Note that neither I nor you said they were blue eyed. You and I said light. The lightness is all that matters. While is true that those animals are blue eyed and living in subtropical areas, they also were nocturnal animals living in dark, forested regions.

Although it is a common buzz phrase that "correlation is not causation", particularly when the correlation is contrary to what the viewer wants to believe, correlation does in fact equal causation. It's the basis of all science.





We do know that even later Upper Palaeolithic specimens of Europe all had brown eyes, according to genetic research (I myself am quite suspicious of it, especially since it claims dark skin also): https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/phenotype-snps-from-ice-age-europe/

We have no way of knowing this, because only one specimen on that list even belonged to the late Upper Paleolithic (Ostuni 1), who came from a much different and unique population in Europe. Ostuni and the nearby contemperaneous Barma Grande/Grotte des Enfants/Grumaldi remains are all generally recognized as being Negroids. Certainly it cannot be denied that they had substantial and recent Negroid admixture from population flow northward from Sicily. They cannot be considered Europeans in any sense of the word. Several other specimens also had Negroid affinities.

[alnortedelsur]

Brown eyes are a sign of non-whiteness. Hazel or green eyes are a sign of miscegenation. Blues eyes are a sign of purity.

You're not being serious right?? lol

[Peterski]

We do know that even later Upper Palaeolithic specimens of Europe all had brown eyes, according to genetic research

Not all. Villabruna (Italy), Bichon (Switzerland) and Satsurblia (Georgia) individuals had the blue eyes mutation.


What about blue/green eyed people in Asia? Do they have European ancestors?

Yes. There is European admixture in Asia. Mostly from Indo-Europeans (who were a mix of EHG, CHG and EEF).

[LoLeL]

Not all. Villabruna (Italy), Bichon (Switzerland) and Satsurblia (Georgia) individuals had the blue eyes mutation.



Yes. There is European admixture in Asia. Mostly from Indo-Europeans (who were a mix of EHG, CHG and EEF).

Even blue eyed Arabs? Is it IE or an Archaic European admixture, e.g. WHG?

[cosmoo]

I'm afraid those animals do indeed very light eyes. Lighter than any human brown eye. Note that neither I nor you said they were blue eyed. You and I said light. The lightness is all that matters. While is true that those animals are blue eyed and living in subtropical areas, they also were nocturnal animals living in dark, forested regions.

Although it is a common buzz phrase that "correlation is not causation", particularly when the correlation is contrary to what the viewer wants to believe, correlation does in fact equal causation. It's the basis of all science.

Their brown eyes may often be lighter than human brown eyes, but they are still, as a whole, predominantly brown-eyed, and much darker eyed than, for example, average European is.
Blue eyed lemur (only primate except humans with blue eyes) is not nocturnal animal, but a diurnal animal living in subtropical area. Seems those light eyes wouldn't confer him any advantage at all. In fact, they would be a disadvantage if we consider them as a functional trait.
Light eyes are pretty poor modification (if they are at all) for nocturnal animals. Most important trait when it comes to eyes of nocturnal animals is that they all have retinas with very high number of rod cells, and some even have exclusively rod cells. That modification is hundredfold more useful than lighter eye pigmentation.



We have no way of knowing this, because only one specimen on that list even belonged to the late Upper Paleolithic (Ostuni 1), who came from a much different and unique population in Europe. Ostuni and the nearby contemperaneous Barma Grande/Grotte des Enfants/Grumaldi remains are all generally recognized as being Negroids. Certainly it cannot be denied that they had substantial and recent Negroid admixture from population flow northward from Sicily. They cannot be considered Europeans in any sense of the word. Several other specimens also had Negroid affinities.
There are several samples on that list that definitely are not in any way Negroid/Asiatic influenced (some of Goyet samples, El Miron, etc.), nor they are early UP, but they all have brown eyes exclusively. Even Grotte du Bichon sample, fully "WHG", has brown eyes. It is more than obvious that light eyes in Europe, according to genetics, appear in Mesolithic/very late Palaeolithic.


Not all. Villabruna (Italy), Bichon (Switzerland) and Satsurblia (Georgia) individuals had the blue eyes mutation.
Bichon had 100% brown eyes despite being fully WHG. Other individuals you mention are very late Palaeolithic samples. And Satsurblia can't even be considered as an UP European sample in true meaning of the word.

[Justalittlevisit]

It would seem that depigmentation in response to reduced sunlight has taken two different forms each in skin, hair, and eyes, and that the distributions of these forms overlap. The center of blond hair is concentrated farther east in Sweden, Finland, the Baltic states, and Poland. As a result, one frequently sees Irishmen with dark hair and blue eyes, and Poles with brown eyes and blond hair.

("The Living Races of Man" by Carleton S. Coon and Edward E. Hunt, Jr., p. 64)

[adsız]

An inter-racial cat . Blue eye side comes from white european parent.

http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/dunya/iki-yuzlu-kedi-venus/011404228950_d.jpg?1636

[щрбл]

Using your logics I am all but European and I still bet I'm more white than you...

Hello, my name is Rajeed.

https://thealmostawsomeblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/808-mtv_movie_awards_rehearsals_sff_embedded_prod_affi liate_36.jpg

[Lucas]

Nordic cats

Snow tiger
http://pre06.deviantart.net/1c08/th/pre/i/2010/334/6/6/snow_tiger_lapping_water_by_pandoraopenssecrets-d33yeai.jpg

Irbis
http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1600x1200/2010/Animals_Beasts_Irbis_in_a_wood_thicket_021430_.jpg

[Grab the Gauge]

Their brown eyes may often be lighter than human brown eyes, but they are still, as a whole, predominantly brown-eyed, and much darker eyed than, for example, average European is.


I'm sorry but this simply isn't true. The lightness of these animals eyes is comparable to blue eyed people, and frequently exceeds even them.



Blue eyed lemur (only primate except humans with blue eyes) is not nocturnal animal, but a diurnal animal living in subtropical area. Seems those light eyes wouldn't confer him any advantage at all. In fact, they would be a disadvantage if we consider them as a functional trait.

The blue eyed lemur is diurnal rather than noturnal as the cuscus is, however it does also live in a dark forested region. Further to the point, their blue eyes are only slightly lighter than the usual red eyed lemur, who are strikingly light eyed


https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2016/11/08/23/23/ring-tailed-lemur-1809663_960_720.jpg






Light eyes are pretty poor modification (if they are at all) for nocturnal animals. Most important trait when it comes to eyes of nocturnal animals is that they all have retinas with very high number of rod cells, and some even have exclusively rod cells. That modification is hundredfold more useful than lighter eye pigmentation.


There's no way we can make such an assumption; while retinal composition is certainly very important, the importance of light iris cannot be ignored when it is a trait shared by so many animals who live in low light or are nocturnal.


There are several samples on that list that definitely are not in any way Negroid/Asiatic influenced (some of Goyet samples, El Miron, etc.), nor they are early UP, but they all have brown eyes exclusively.


I'm afraid El Miron is indeed likely to be Negroid admixed, as all specimens in southern Europe are likely to be, especially the closer their proximity to Sicily and the Strait of Gibraltar where there was a constant flow of traffic from Africa at this time.

This is reflected in the morphology of the skeletons of southern Europe and the remains of Dolni Vestonice suggest that Negroid admixture reached as far north as the Czech Republic during the time period of ~25,000 years ago. This, combined with visual depictions of Negroid featues in Northern Italy from the late Upper Paleolitic, are sufficient enough to prove that the inhabitants of this region were Negroids.

http://donsmaps.com/balzirossihead.html

http://donsmaps.com/images24/balzihead2sm.jpg





Even Grotte du Bichon sample, fully "WHG", has brown eyes. It is more than obvious that light eyes in Europe, according to genetics, appear in Mesolithic/very late Palaeolithic.


WHG has a low level of relatedness to West African populations, including Mbuti Pygmies. So merely being purely WHG doesn't mean a whole lot when WHG was Negroid admixed from the beginning. The interesting thing about Bichon is that he also had very high ROH comparable to modern day Amerindians, so his close affinities to other hunter gatherers (e.g. Loschbour) is likely a reflection of the fact that he was highly inbred.


Bichon had 100% brown eyes despite being fully WHG. Other individuals you mention are very late Palaeolithic samples. And Satsurblia can't even be considered as an UP European sample in true meaning of the word.


However, Bichon is also very late Upper Paleolithic, in fact Epipaleolithic, at just 11,000 years old. The skull is somewhat morphologically similar to the Grimaldi negroids.

https://www.rts.ch/2015/11/16/15/37/5864567.image?w=900&h=506

[cosmoo]

^Still more northern samples (like Goyet ones) all have brown eyes.
I'm not saying that UP Europeans didn't have light eyes (even though genetic research doesn't show it yet, they probably had light skin and in many cases light eyes), but it is certainly impossible to say that brown eyes are not European, as genetic evidence which claims contrary is plentiful.

[Grab the Gauge]

^Still more northern samples (like Goyet ones) all have brown eyes.
I'm not saying that UP Europeans didn't have light eyes (even though genetic research doesn't show it yet, they probably had light skin and in many cases light eyes), but it is certainly impossible to say that brown eyes are not European, as genetic evidence which claims contrary is plentiful.


The Goyet people were also not European, but admixed with non-Europeans.


https://www.naturalsciences.be/en/news/item/5583

Goyet also had a lot of Anatolian farmer admix.

We would like to think that UP Europeans were all one population, however, realistically, it's been known for over 100 years that UP Europe was constantly recycling at least three different human races -- remains like Oberkassel and Les Eyzies weren't in the majority 25,000 years ago. There was a Mongoloid element, at Chancelade in France and elsewhere, and a Negroid population in southern Europe. I would not expect these people to be light skinned or light eyed at all because they are a flow of traffic directly from Asia and Africa and by no means an established and permanent population. When taking in to account the DNA data of Upper Paleolithic "Europeans" we must remember that very few of the remains sampled so far were actually European. Most were Africans, and Afro/Asian hybrids.

[Nurzat]

So steppe people and hunter gatherers sprouted out of the ground? They came from outside of Europe too.

the steppe north of the Black Sea and Siberia are noble places

[Antimage]

Brown eyes are native to Europe and it's due to mutations caused by different factors, like weather and others that caused the eyes to change colour. Using the logics that brown eyes are not European a question comes to my mind where would you place the green eyed people?

Green eyed people are obviously mixed race.

[cosmoo]

The Goyet people were also not European, but admixed with non-Europeans.


https://www.naturalsciences.be/en/news/item/5583

Goyet also had a lot of Anatolian farmer admix.

We would like to think that UP Europeans were all one population, however, realistically, it's been known for over 100 years that UP Europe was constantly recycling at least three different human races -- remains like Oberkassel and Les Eyzies weren't in the majority 25,000 years ago. There was a Mongoloid element, at Chancelade in France and elsewhere, and a Negroid population in southern Europe. I would not expect these people to be light skinned or light eyed at all because they are a flow of traffic directly from Asia and Africa and by no means an established and permanent population. When taking in to account the DNA data of Upper Paleolithic "Europeans" we must remember that very few of the remains sampled so far were actually European. Most were Africans, and Afro/Asian hybrids.

Genetics show even completely morphologically European UP samples to be "admixed". It just makes no sense. And UP Europe was anthropologically a very homogeneous place. Examples like Grimaldi or Chancelade account for less than 5 percent of total.

"It is amazing to find that the Upper Palaeolithic men were less variable, on the whole, than the inhabitants of London who were buried in plague pits during the seventeenth century. They were less variable than the modern rural population of a small section of Carinthia, and only a little more so than the skulls of the extremely isolated Greenland Eskimo, whose time span covered at most a few centuries, or the Egyptians who were buried at Gizeh between the twenty-sixth and thirtieth dynasties."
(C.S. Coon, The Races of Europe, chapter II, section 6)

Upper Palaeolithic Europeans were more homogenous than any European population that came after, even though Upper Palaeolithic lasted about four times longer than the totality of time which has elapsed since it ended. That says a lot...

As for your argument that they couldn't have had light skin originally since they came from Africa/Asia in earliest days of Upper Palaeolithic... it is only valid if you believe in OOA, and I highly doubt its veracity.

[Justalittlevisit]

An inter-racial cat .

European (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/47/4e/7d/474e7d2479512428a1a4716d5d1656eb.jpg) and invader (http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/images/articles/1431/large/531d8ae17aefd.jpg). :lightbul:

[Justalittlevisit]

where would you place the green eyed people?

In old genetics and anthropology, green eye color was considered as resulting from mixing of bluish and black eyes or bluish and brown eyes. Nowadays, true green eye color (grass green (https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2491/3804388279_e0d09f1702_b.jpg), emerald green (http://eyes.lt/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/green-eyes1.jpg)) is considered to be a distinct eye color.

[Longbowman]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be. This is not an insult to brown featured people; just a recognition of fact. There's nothing wrong about having brown features or not being white. And by blue eyes I mean very brightly, burning blue. No grey and pale blue eyes.

Not only this but occasionally people with burning blue eyes have siblings with grey or regular blue eyes. In these cases, first, of course, the possibility of a non-paternity event should be examined, but if none can be proven then of course all parties are at most 70% European.

[Norse]

The Goyet people were also not European, but admixed with non-Europeans.


https://www.naturalsciences.be/en/news/item/5583

Goyet also had a lot of Anatolian farmer admix.

We would like to think that UP Europeans were all one population, however, realistically, it's been known for over 100 years that UP Europe was constantly recycling at least three different human races -- remains like Oberkassel and Les Eyzies weren't in the majority 25,000 years ago. There was a Mongoloid element, at Chancelade in France and elsewhere, and a Negroid population in southern Europe. I would not expect these people to be light skinned or light eyed at all because they are a flow of traffic directly from Asia and Africa and by no means an established and permanent population. When taking in to account the DNA data of Upper Paleolithic "Europeans" we must remember that very few of the remains sampled so far were actually European. Most were Africans, and Afro/Asian hybrids.

Pls expand.

[Grab the Gauge]

Genetics show even completely morphologically European UP samples to be "admixed"

I have never seen a case of this happening. In every case when admixture was found in a Paleolithic specimen, there were signs of morpholoical and metrical deviation from the norm. In Kostenki 14 (as an example) we find Basal Eurasian admixture -- Kostenki had a very low cranial capacity (1100cc) and certain other deviant features.

Of course, as you know, Goyet and Ust-Ishim were mere femurs or fragments of femurs, so we can't say for certain what their morphology was like. But it would not surprise me if they were deviant (from "Europeans") in many regards.


It just makes no sense. And UP Europe was anthropologically a very homogeneous place. Examples like Grimaldi or Chancelade account for less than 5 percent of total.

UP Europe could not have been less homogenous. Never before have three different human races + 2 different human species cohabitated within such a small geographical area. Although Grimaldi is just one sample, the fact that remains of a similar type, as well as archaeological evidence like the Negroid head of Balzi Rossi, suggest that Negroids were the predominant inhabitants of Italy and Switzerland, and probably ranged as far north as Czech Republic. There are no specimens in Italy during the period of 30,000-16,000 ybp that can be classified as Caucasoid or Cro Magnon.

Chancelade is only one specimen, but the fact that anyone like him ever even existed suggests that he must have been a member of a stable, breeding population. No one as deviant as him could have just sprang out of nowhere from a population like Les Eyzies or Solutre, which was also classified as Mongoloid albeit of a much different type than the overspecialized "troglydyte" that was Chancelade.





"It is amazing to find that the Upper Palaeolithic men were less variable, on the whole, than the inhabitants of London who were buried in plague pits during the seventeenth century. They were less variable than the modern rural population of a small section of Carinthia, and only a little more so than the skulls of the extremely isolated Greenland Eskimo, whose time span covered at most a few centuries, or the Egyptians who were buried at Gizeh between the twenty-sixth and thirtieth dynasties."[/I]

Although this may have been true when Coon wrote it, even though he selectively ignored specimens like the Grimaldi series or Chancelade, several things have come to light since Coon died which weren't known when his book was pubished. The first was that several fossils that used to be considered Upper Paleolithic have been redated to the Holocene. These fossils were in Coon's sample (Combe Capelle, Stetten, others), and contributed to the "unity" Coon describes (Coon is only talking about cranial indice here; he acknowledged that certain Upper Paleolithic and Middle Paleolithic specimens were morphologically different despite falling in to UP parameters. Examples are Skhul and Predmost).

The second and perhaps most important factor is that several remains have been found since Coon's book was published that do deviate from the UP "norm". Two of those are the Oase 1 and 2 fossils, which are a mosaic of modern and archaic features. Others include Neanderthals dated to the Upper Paleolithic since 1979, shortly before Coon died. Coon was not aware of remains like Kostenki which would later be found after his book was published. In the 21st century, it can't be said that there was UP unity.




As for your argument that they couldn't have had light skin originally since they came from Africa/Asia in earliest days of Upper Palaeolithic... it is only valid if you believe in OOA, and I highly doubt its veracity.

The pure replacement OOA theory has been debunked -- but that doesn't mean it wasn't partially right. The problem of dark skin would still exist even if people like Kostenki had magically distended directly from specimens like Krapina C.. Because apparently Neanderthals were also dark skinned, according to genetic evidence. It appears they got these alleles from Denisovans hundreds of thousands of years ago, if the Sima de los Huesos sample is taken as evidence, they must have come from outside Europe... Genetic evidence of modern human admixture in Neanderthals has also been found and it is believed out of Africa may have taken place earlier than tought, meaning that many "classical Neanderthal" specimens may in fact be hybridized with Afro-Asians.

To get a picture of the adaptive European skin coloration we would have to get DNA from specimens like Steinheim, Tautavel/Arago, or Petralona. They're the true Europeans who had actually been there for hundreds of thousands of years.

[Robocop]

...


Here is an "Aryan" for you, you retard Nordicist mother fucker:

https://s24.postimg.org/jv6kjntj9/blauwoogmaki_106270_martin_harvey_1_603.jpg

Everything you write here is a MUMBO JUMBO which only an RETARD could accept, NORDICIST MUMBO JUMBO, MUMBO JUMBO...

Blue eyes in White people are mutation, that's exactly what they are, developed some 10 or 15 000 years ago, more probably 10 000 years ago.

AS MUTATION IN WHITE PEOPLE.

White people can have brown, green, hazel and blue eyes, that is true richness of White race, and IT HAS NOTHING TO DO with who is more white you fucking NORDICIST PIECE OF SHIT.

Sister of my mother has brown eyes and her husband has brown eyes, while their children, ALL THREE OF THEM HAVE BLUE EYES, or to be precise; one has blue eyes, and two have green eyes.

YOU ARE A FUCKING LUNATIC, along with everyone here who thinks like you, A FUCKING LUNATIC.

A guy who opened this thread ASKED A NICE CIVILIZED QUESTION IN SCIENTIFIC WAY, for someone to explain to him IN SCIENTIFIC WAY, then you came you fucking lunatic retard Nordicist piece of shit with your propaganda, GO FUCKING KILL YOURSELF BASTARD.


I love all whites, and blue eyes or brown eyes or green eyes whites are all WHITES, IT IS UNIQUE ONLY IN WHITE PPL, means a rule only in white people, everywhere else an exception.

White people with brown eyes WERE FIRST WHITES, WE WERE FIRST YOU FUCKING MUTANT PIECE OF SHIT.


P.S. All of this what I have said now goes ONLY FOR YOU AND NORDICIST FUCKERS LIKE YOU, not for other Blue/Green eye people, because I would piss on my own father and my own family if I would piss on green/blue eyed people, I PISS ON YOU ONLY.

TO EVEN THINK THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE "ONLY THOSE WITH BLUE/GREEN EYES" WOULD MEAN THAT WHITE PPL CAME TO THIS WORLD 10-15 000 YEARS AGO, how fucking retard you have to be to think that? OH YEAH, YOU HAVE TO BE NORDICIST!

Mother fucker.

P.S. If someone thinks this was beyond line, be free to BAN me.

[Peterski]

Bichon had 100% brown eyes despite being fully WHG

Bichon had the blue eyes mutation, that's what I wrote. He had one copy of the derived allele.

Villabruna was also 100% WHG.


Other individuals you mention are very late Palaeolithic samples.

Villabruna is older than Bichon.

[catgeorge]

I have blue eyes and don't really care.....well it certainly isn't something that occupies my life and thinking I am better. Far from it - I think I am horrible barbarian.

I actually think the tall robust Macedonians are far better than I am.... Traianos Dellas, Angelos Charisteas, Theodoros Zagorakis.. they're European Champions I am not.

[Dick]

:rotfl:

[Robocop]

And btw, just want to repeat somethin; ofcourse I don't consider blue/green eyed Europeans as MUTANTS (but it is mutation from 10-15 000 years ago), because I would consider my own father as mutant in that case, just wanted to show to that Nordicist Grab the Gauge shit how it feels like to taste his own medicine, fucking Brachy shit. :)

[Grab the Gauge]

Litvin recently dropped the following negative reputation comment on my profile:



Goyet lived thousands of years before farming was invented, they could not have any "Anatolian farmer admix", LOL

However, Goyet does indeed have an Anatolian farmer component, and is therefore Anatolian farmer admixed. Litvin here has confused the technical and conceptual title of "Anatolian farmer" with the actual population itself. The "Anatolian farmers" existed before farming.

[Peterski]

Litvin recently dropped the following negative reputation comment on my profile:

However, Goyet does indeed have an Anatolian farmer component, and is therefore Anatolian farmer admixed. Litvin here has confused the technical and conceptual title of "Anatolian farmer" with the actual population itself. The "Anatolian farmers" existed before farming.

You should rather say, that Anatolian farmers were Goyet-admixed. Descended from Goyet.

Remember, that Anatolian farmers had also around 10-15% of WHG ancestry from Europe.

[Grab the Gauge]

I'm afraid you are wrong and confirming my suspicions that you lack basic awareness of conceptualization. "Anatolian farmer" is a title, not an ethnicity. Goyet did indeed have Anatolian farmer ancestry.

[Ilma]

That non-sense... Color of the eyes comes from the level of melanine you were born with + heredity from your parents because they pass you 2 allels they inherited from their own parents etc to determine which color you will get. That's why some kids from the same parents can have different eye color.

Blue eyes are recessive in presence of brown eyes, the brown allel will take advantage on blue one, that's why having brown eyes is more common than blue and humans tend to evolve this way. Melanin protect your eyes from sun exposure, same thing for skin. Peoples living in Northern areas tended to develop blue eyes (lack of melanin) and fair skin (lack of melanin as well) in order to get vitamin D enough due to less sun exposure. Peoples living in soutern areas tended to keep or develop darker eyes and skins to protect against danger of sun exposure, that's adaptative trait.

The color of the eyes has nothing to do with being euro or non euro, you will find Mongols with blue eyes as well because this is adaptive trait due to the area where they evolved.

[Bogdan]

Early Europeans had brown eyes and a mutation evolved causing blue eyes for different climate and abilities.

[Septentrion]

Hello i want to ask you where and how brown eyes appeared in Europe ?? Could person with brown eyes be classified as pure European or is there some non-european influence? Thank you for your opinion
The First ever inhabitants of Europe had pure brown eyes, black hair and a relatively dark skin. Blue eyes was a mutation which arose much later!! This was followed by fair skin then red or blond hair!

[Robocop]

Hello i want to ask you where and how brown eyes appeared in Europe ?? Could person with brown eyes be classified as pure European or is there some non-european influence? Thank you for your opinion

Are you joking man?

First Europeans had brown eyes, ALL OF THEM. Blue and Green eyes is mutantion which happened before 10-12 000 years ago, even today there are debates why that mutation appeared, but they emerged from Europeans who had brown eyes AS ORIGINAL EUROPEANS.

And you're asking from where brown eyed ppl came from to Europe?

Jesus fucking Christ...

How about this: Brown eyed Europeans WERE A GOD DAMN FIRST HOMO SAPIENS OF EUROPE 40 000 years ago, that's where they came from.

[Teutonski]

Are you joking man?

First Europeans had brown eyes, ALL OF THEM. Blue and Green eyes are mutantion which happened before 10-12 000 years ago, even today there are debates why they appeared, but they emerged from Europeans who had brown eyes AS ORIGINAL EUROPEANS.

And you're asking from where brown eyes ppl came from to Europe?

Jesus fucking Christ...

Brown eyed people WERE A GOD DAMN FIRST HOMO SAPIENS OF EUROPE 40 000 years ago, that's where they came from.

#BrownEyes Squad

[Übermensch]

Even though i am not blue eyed (as you can see if you click on my profile, my eyes are rather olive/mud hazel green cooloured) i reconize that blue eyes is the original european marker, it is linked with original CM people, who had either tan or light skin, and red or dark hair, the first people settled in europe had indeed blue eyes, i consider them also fairly more beautiful than dark or mixed eyes, particulary the deep, indingo colour common on many redheads.
All people in europe belongs to the caucasian race which is basically formed by three components: the protoeuropoids: large headed,robust,with light eyes and tan or fair skin, red or dark hair,the neolithic farmers ''mediterraneans'' with fine features, narrow faces and noses, brown hair and eyes and olive skin and the eurasian invaders (nordids), fair skinned,straight blond haired,with light eyes.
In this time this stabilized melting pot (which is variable in each european country) is in danger, africans and asians are taking over our continent, and native european people are slowly dying, it would be stupid to discriminate someone for eye colour in this circumstances, if SSA people would replace europeans light eyes will completely disappear, while in a normal condition they will still to exist, all europeans are white caucasians reargdless eye colour.

[Übermensch]

And, we europeans are all mutts from the same components, so you can find statistically speaking a blue eyed,fair skinned and yes even nordic looking southern europeans with maybe even a native euro haplogroup (I1,I2) and a dane with dark eyes,tan skin,dark hair and even a non properly euro haplogroup (let's j1) and yet the former would still have more native euro blood than the light and nordic southern euro.

[Phenix]

Are you joking man?

First Europeans had brown eyes, ALL OF THEM. Blue and Green eyes is mutantion which happened before 10-12 000 years ago, even today there are debates why that mutation appeared, but they emerged from Europeans who had brown eyes AS ORIGINAL EUROPEANS.

And you're asking from where brown eyed ppl came from to Europe?

Jesus fucking Christ...

How about this: Brown eyed Europeans WERE A GOD DAMN FIRST HOMO SAPIENS OF EUROPE 40 000 years ago, that's where they came from.

Hail to the first sane guy in this thread.

[Robocop]

Hail to the first sane guy in this thread.

https://i.gifer.com/3xrK.gif

[Thorns]

Well, I remember that study of a 7,000 year old hunter gatherer tooth found in Spain, that they said had the genes for blue eyes. I'm only vaguely familiar with the study though.

Ah yea here it is, another piece to the puzzle I guess.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/dark-skin-and-blue-eyes-european-hunter-gatherers-did-not-fit-common-021813

I'm not making any claims here, just providing a link. Maybe somebody here knows more about it.

[щрбл]

Are you joking man?

First Europeans had brown eyes, ALL OF THEM. Blue and Green eyes is mutantion which happened before 10-12 000 years ago, even today there are debates why that mutation appeared, but they emerged from Europeans who had brown eyes AS ORIGINAL EUROPEANS.

And you're asking from where brown eyed ppl came from to Europe?

Jesus fucking Christ...

How about this: Brown eyed Europeans WERE A GOD DAMN FIRST HOMO SAPIENS OF EUROPE 40 000 years ago, that's where they came from.

Brown eyed Yuropeans are niggas in denial. Stop this nonsense. :rolleyes:

[Stefanos.tasidis]

I can't believe some of the posts on this site lol.
Brown eyes exist EVERYWHERE. Doesn't mean you are not European

[RenaRyuguu]

It's just a pigmentation thing like melanin or whatever it can be removed now tho but whatever

[Ayetooey]

Only wogs have brown eyes.

[Peter Parker]

Only wogs have brown eyes.

That's bullshit. Brown eyes are as European as blue eyes.
However, I believe that brown eyes in Europeans are an indication of high Neolithic ancestry and less original Hunter-Gatherer ancestry.

(The WHG were described as having dark skin, dark hair and blue eyes - but didn't some of them have brown eyes as well??)

[JamesBond007]

Only wogs have brown eyes.

How is that the case when about 10% of English people have brown eyes more than chinese Estonian and Chinese Finnish people ?

https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/812/366/546/model-women-face-lucy-pinder-wallpaper-preview.jpg


Check out non-WOG Icelandic Chinese eyes !

https://www.icelandtravel.is/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/bjork-singer-1200x1200.jpg

[pulstar]

This thread is tainted by UltimatePagan. I... can't... comment... anymore...

[Robocop]

Hello i want to ask you where and how brown eyes appeared in Europe ?? Could person with brown eyes be classified as pure European or is there some non-european influence? Thank you for your opinion

Buahahaha sorry for laughing man, but EUROPEANS WITH BROWN EYES WERE FIRST EUROPEANS, means from 40 000 years ago Europeans (CroMagnon times) till today.

It is better question how and why mutuation of blue eyed euroepans happened 10 000 years ago, yeah, you read it well, 10 000 years ago., we are here for 40 000 years.

So you happened to us, we didn't happened to you.

[Östsvensk]

How is that the case when about 10% of English people have brown eyes more than chinese Estonian and Chinese Finnish people ?

https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/812/366/546/model-women-face-lucy-pinder-wallpaper-preview.jpg


Check out non-WOG Icelandic Chinese eyes !

https://www.icelandtravel.is/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/bjork-singer-1200x1200.jpg

More than 10% of English people have brown eyes, I think. Coon said some 40% of English had brown eyes.

As far as I know, Eastern Hunter-Gatherers were the first carriers of blue eyes and light hair, and they were not a purely West Eurasian group. That is why there is some irony in that the features are so strongly interconnected with theories of Aryan racial purity.

[PaleoEuropean]

Brown eyes, hair and skin are the human default, there is no special genes for them.

[PaleoEuropean]

More than 10% of English people have brown eyes, I think. Coon said some 40% of English had brown eyes.

As far as I know, Eastern Hunter-Gatherers were the first carriers of blue eyes and light hair, and they were not a purely West Eurasian group. That is why there is some irony in that the features are so strongly interconnected with theories of Aryan racial purity.

Most indo-aryans would have had brown hair and eyes, they became more prominent as they mixed with HG and Neolithic people who had the genes too; since blue eyes is a recessive genetic. Indo-Aryans cannot be pure by definition. Indo-Aryans are mixed Asians and Aryans. Aryans come from Iran not Afghanistan, Central Asia etc. Caucasoid features in Indo-Aryans, their language, culture etc is all formed from this mix. Iranians ruled central Asia all the way up until the fall of Khwarazm which is why central Asians radiated out of the area into eastern Europe up until they were just absorbed and ceased to become distinct people.

[dududud]

Yamnayas were mixed eyes and hair color

Some Neolithic European was blond or "medium brown" (chesnut), some has blues eyes...

WHG was supposed mostly blues eyes...

So, "brown" (amber, chesnut, medium brown, dark brown, etc) eyes = Yamnayas + Neolithic, in Western Europe

Watch this video about the recent thing that is blondness, which is due to selective pressure, because the Yamnayas were not very blond and the Neolithic too, the WHG too ...

He also addresses eye color

https://youtu.be/eahGL7HyMRM?t=1600

[Harkonnen]

According to Coon EHGs were racially Ladogan Uraloids indeed. Lot of interest is put on looks, but what about the spirit? and the brawn? SHGs, who *off topic starts* by the way were very light pigmented compared even to WHGs and EHGs (which they were a mix of)*off topic ends*, showed adaptation to cold environments in gene regions associated with mind, spirit and physical performance.


With the aim of detecting signs of adaptation to high-latitude environments and selection during and after the Mesolithic period, we employed two different approaches that utilize the Mesolithic genomic data. In the first approach, we assumed that SHGs adapted to high-latitude environments of low temperatures and seasonally low levels of light, and searched for gene variants that carried over to modern-day people in northern Europe.

We designed a statistic, Dsel (S9 Text), that captures this specific signal and scanned the whole genome for gene variants that show strong continuity (little differentiation) between SHGs and modern-day northern Europeans while exhibiting large differentiation to modern-day southern European populations [46] (Fig 4A; S9 Text). Six of the top 10 SNPs with greatest Dsel values were located in the TMEM131 gene that has been found to be associated with physical performance [47], which could make it part of the physiological adaptation to cold [48]. This genomic region was more than 200 kbp (kilo base pairs) long and showed the strongest haplotypic differentiation between modern-day Tuscan individuals (TSIs) and modern-day Finnish individuals (FINs) across the genome (S9 Text). The particular haplotype was relatively common in SHGs, it is even more common among today’s Finnish population (S9 Text) and showed a strong signal of local adaptation (S9 Text). Other top hits included genes associated with a wide range of metabolic, cardiovascular, and developmental and psychological traits (S9 Text) potentially linked to physiological adaptation to cold environments [48].

Amazingly Finnish physical output is even more SHG than the SHG, hue hue

Also amazingly, it seems that at least part of FI psychological insanity and other unpleasant personality traits are shared with SHG, hue hue, pasila soittakaa porilaisten marssi.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND:
SHGs also carried quite a lot of EDAR

https://i.imgur.com/EyednQJ.png

But Finns not so much, and fooking Komi-Zyrians none at all when even Greeks have some. We live in strange world indeed.

https://i.imgur.com/7SnYfMU.png

[Fraisod]

If you don't have blue eyes you're not White/European and never will be. This is not an insult to brown featured people; just a recognition of fact. There's nothing wrong about having brown features or not being white. And by blue eyes I mean very brightly, burning blue. No grey and pale blue eyes.

So, the quintessential White person is a White Walker? lmao

[Fraisod]

Brown eyes would be "default" for all Eurasia since long before historical time.

[TheMaestro]

E-V13

[IceQueen]

I’m 100% northwestern European and I have brown eyes/hair, it’s quite a common look here in native Brits despite what some people are saying. Definitely more than 10% :rolleyes:

[Peter Parker]

Nah, it's quite common for Brits to have brown hair but brown eyes are much rarer.
It's not an exotic trait but most Brits have blue eyes.

[IceQueen]

Nah, it's quite common for Brits to have brown hair but brown eyes are much rarer.
It's not an exotic trait but most Brits have blue eyes.

It’s certainly not rare. Brown eyes might not be the majority here but a significant amount of people have them to the point that it’s considered normal.

[Fraisod]

I’m 100% northwestern European and I have brown eyes/hair, it’s quite a common look here in native Brits despite what some people are saying. Definitely more than 10% :rolleyes:
I think that would be true even in England itself, and higher in Wales.

[Zeno]

Brown eyes are the native traits of the European peoples. Blue eyes were much later developed than the appearance of the first humans in Europe.

I-I mean...

they're not European, let's skip dat

[Samnium]

I’m 100% northwestern European and I have brown eyes/hair, it’s quite a common look here in native Brits despite what some people are saying. Definitely more than 10% :rolleyes:

People are usually conflating pigmentation and genetics in a ridiculous way...

While genetics is linked to pigmentation, it's not because you're a brown-eyed German or Danish (with deep roots) that you aren't part of the same kind as your blonde neighbor. Same reasoning could be applied to some Southern Euros that think that they are more "Nordic" because of their light features.

They do not understand that phenotype is "regulated" by some SNPs, and that environment can play a great role in the expression of genes.

[Leto]

People are usually conflating pigmentation and genetics in a ridiculous way...

While genetics is linked to pigmentation, it's not because you're a brown-eyed German or Danish (with deep roots) that you aren't part of the same kind as your blonde neighbor. Same reasoning could be applied to some Southern Euros that think that they are more "Nordic" because of their light features.

They do not understand that phenotype is "regulated" by some SNPs, and that environment can play a great role in the expression of genes.
I'd love to see this Italian soccer/football player's DNA results (Ignazio Abate, born in Benevento). Imagine him being a typical Med with like 28-30% EM and 5% Red Sea. Mind-blowing but can be real.
https://www.hammers.news/static/uploads/25/2019/08/GettyImages-1090119658.jpg

[Peter Parker]

Just like this dark Norwegian who will probably score very Northern:

https://i.imgur.com/CI5Br6pm.jpg

[Samnium]

I'd love to see this Italian soccer/football player's DNA results (Ignazio Abate, born in Benevento). Imagine him being a typical Med with like 28-30% EM and 5% Red Sea. Mind-blowing but can be real.


And at the same time, this guy would score as an average milanese, so with probably over 40% Northern components on K13 Gedmatch despite being much darker :

https://www.lesfemmesmagazine.it/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Enrico-Ruggeri-3-www.lesfemmesmagazine.it_.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQSTyFEXUAg8Qfk.jpg

He does look quite French however.