Albanians, Post your Eurogenes ANE K7

[Lek]

ANE 11.86
ASE 1.93
WHG-UHG 46.49
East_Eurasian 0.25
West_African 0.07
East_African -
ENF 39.40

[Lek]

Ancient North Eurasian
Ancient North Eurasian is an ancestral component now somewhat common in population genetics... It was originally discovered through the genome of a Siberian boy who died over 20,000 years ago referred to as either Mal'ta boy or MA-1 and was backed up as being a real entity in pre-historic Eurasia through other ancient genomes like that of Afontova Gora-2. [1]



It's discovery really shook up a lot of things like our understanding of the origins of Europeans, Native Americans and even groups such as Central Asians, South Asians and various West Asians who seem to carry either Ancient North Eurasian or Ancient North Eurasian-related ancestry.

Lazaridis et al. 2013-2014 seemed to suggest that Europeans were basally a three-way mixture between Ancient North Eurasians / MA-1 related peoples, what they dubbed Western European Hunter-Gatherers based on the ancient genomes of various Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherers from Europe like Loschbour and then finally Early European Farmers who began entering Europe around the Neolithic from West Asia.

Since then that model's become rather obsolete and has been replaced by one where all of the supposed Ancient North Eurasian ancestry in Europe is owed to the spread of the Indo-European languages by pastoralist peoples from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe.





These pastoralists were carrying with them a foray of different ancestries from what looks to be Caucasian-like ancestry rich in what looks to be Ancient North Eurasian-related & West Asian ancestry and what is for now referred to by chaps like Wolfgang Haak of Haak et al. 2015 as "Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers (EHGs)". [2]

EHGs almost fit as a mixture between Ancient North Eurasians & Western European Hunter-Gatherers but instead don't entirely look to be the result of such a mixture. Though as David Wesolowski who runs the Eurogenes genome blog and ancestry project once remarked in the quote below- :

"It depends how you define EHG, ANE and WHG, and the concept of pure components.
They can all be distinct pops, or EHG can be a mix of ANE and WHG, or even WHG can be a mix of EHG and something as yet unsampled."

-it's honestly rather iffy and tricky modeling these pre-historic groups with wildly different time stamps on them (Mesolithic for WHGs and EHGs and Paleolithic for ANEs) as mixtures of one another.

But David seems to assume groups like EHGs and WHGs are likely a mixture between groups that preceded them perhaps like Ancient North Eurasians and some other groups as yet unsampled. The cold hard truth of the matter is that we require more samples of pre-historic Hunter-Gatherer groups across West Eurasia to really understand what EHG and WHG are and how exactly they're connected to ANE because the current models seem inadequate.

It could just be that Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers are somehow extra related to Ancient North Eurasians or somehow partially descended from them and something Western European Hunter-Gatherer related. We'd need more ancient genomes across time and space in Europe and other parts of Eurasia to truly grasp this with any kind of conclusive detail.


Early Neolithic = Early European Farmer


Although one thing is resolved for now... A group of "pure" Ancient North Eurasians didn't come and contribute Ancient North Eurasian ancestry to the ancestors of modern Europeans; this Ancient North Eurasian-related ancestry is ultimately owed to expansions from the Steppe. Whether EHGs are "WHG + ANE" or related to MA-1 in some other way or not.

Though it is worth-noting that the non-EHG and "Caucasian-like" ancestry in Pontic Caspian Steppe pastoralists like the Yamnaya did also carry Ancient North Eurasian-related ancestry and in this case; not seemingly owed to Eastern European Hunter-Gatherer ancestry.



The redder a place or its "outline" is; the richer in ANE-related ancestry it is
In the end though what looks to be Ancient North Eurasian ancestry or Ancient North Eurasian-related like EHG ancestry is found all over Eurasia from Siberia to South Asia or Western Europe to Central Asia. In a modern context it tends to peak in Siberian groups like Kets [3] or various modern South Asians and in West Eurasia peaks in the Caucasus region.

It also really helped redefine our understanding of the origins of Native Americans who like many populations on this planet are now understood not to be some "pure" separate branch of the Homo Sapien Sapien family tree but a mixture of sorts like Europeans. In their case the mixture seems to be between Ancient North Eurasians and East Asian-related ancestry. [4]





If I had to quickly dive into where the component stands in Eurasia; it's essentially closest to Eastern & Western European Hunter-Gatherer and seems to share as geneticists suggest; a sort of earlier root with these components like it does with Western European Hunter-Gatherer in that Lazaridis et al. 2013 diagram I shared.

Though as I said; we really need more samples from across Eurasia (West Eurasia, Siberia, Central Asia, South Asia etc.) from various time periods to really understand the true nature of groups like Ancient North Eurasians, Western European Hunter-Gatherers and Eastern European Hunter-Gatherers because as it stands; things stand on somewhat unsure and confused ground.

For all we know; what looks to be non-Steppe derived "ANE" ancestry in groups like South Asians, Central Asians and West Asians may not be owed to some sort of "pure" Ancient North Eurasian group like we once thought was the case for Europeans...

It could instead mean that these groups owe their Ancient North Eurasian-related ancestry to Eurasian Hunter-Gatherer groups somehow related to Ancient North Eurasians or who carry ANE ancestry themselves in some way or other; more ancient DNA analysis is needed... I say this a lot and before this blog post is over will say it again because it can't be emphasized enough.

This uncertainty I highlighted above is essentially why I insist on sometimes writing "Ancient North Eurasian-related ancestry" rather than undoubtedly assuming some of these non-European populations have direct ANE ancestry.



Eurasia


Nevertheless, for the time being what we dub "Ancient North Eurasian" is highly divergent from Western European Hunter-Gatherers despite the seemingly closer relations between ANEs and European Hunter-Gatherers when compared to Eastern Non-African groups, to a point where Native Americans will often seem more similar or closer to Mal'ta boy than Europeans are like in analyses such as IBS:


MA-1 IBS


This being the case despite the fact that the East Asian-related ancestry that makes up the rest of Native Americans' ancestry is less related to Ancient North Eurasians like Mal'ta boy / MA-1 than the European Hunter-Gatherer ancestry in Europeans is, though Europeans might be shifted away a bit by the highly divergent Basal Eurasian component in their West Asian / Near Eastern-related ancestry.


Eurogenes K=8 is a good representation of the levels of Ancient North Eurasian-related ancestry found across various global populations


Nevertheless, ANE is a pretty distinct ancestral cluster of its own with what seems to be a very large spread across Eurasia of either ANE or ANE-related ancestry showing up in small amounts even in some East Asian populations as well as somewhat in Egyptians, a Northeast African population.



http://anthromadness.blogspot.no/2015/09/ancient-north-eurasian.html?m=1

[Lek]

Bump

[Pjeter Pan]

Population
ANE 11.77
ASE 1.39
WHG-UHG 44.59
East_Eurasian -
West_African -
East_African -
ENF 42.26

[ChocolateFace]

Population
ANE 12.45
ASE 1.94
WHG-UHG 47.94
East_Eurasian -
West_African 0.72
East_African -
ENF 36.95

[Lek]

Population
ANE 12.45
ASE 1.94
WHG-UHG 47.94
East_Eurasian -
West_African 0.72
East_African -
ENF 36.95

You probably plot very Northern, more than me too going by this.

[ChocolateFace]

You probably plot very Northern, more than me too going by this.

On the old 23andme genetic plots, I was plotted north of most Albanians, but there were a few Albanians even north of me.

[Wrong]

ANE 10.95
ASE 1.34
WHG-UHG 43.80
East_Eurasian -
West_African -
East_African -
ENF 43.86

http://i.imgur.com/B76UnGt.png
http://i.imgur.com/B76UnGt.png
http://i.imgur.com/B76UnGt.png
http://i.imgur.com/B76UnGt.png

[Pjeter Pan]

On the old 23andme genetic plots, I was plotted north of most Albanians, but there were a few Albanians even north of me.

I plotted more North than most albos as well. http://i68.tinypic.com/2e2pi5x.jpg

[Lek]

On the old 23andme genetic plots, I was plotted north of most Albanians, but there were a few Albanians even north of me.

Yeah theres a map done in a thread by another guy and i plot slight north of kosovar average which is notth east and just by looking at what you score i can see youd plot even more north lol... i guess maybe i was right that if added enough samples thered be a bunch of Albanians more north of me as ive seen several already and im already pretty northern


ANE 10.95
ASE 1.34
WHG-UHG 43.80
East_Eurasian -
West_African -
East_African -
ENF 43.86

This basically says youre more Southern than me.

[Wrong]

Yeah theres a map done in a thread by another guy and i plot slight north of kosovar average which is notth east and just by looking at what you score i can see youd plot even more north lol... i guess maybe i was right that if added enough samples thered be a bunch of Albanians more north of me as ive seen several already and im already pretty northern



This basically says youre more Southern than me.

Yup.

[Wrong]

These things are autism. I am Spartan according to K36 similarity.

http://i.imgur.com/fwRYSml.png

[Lek]

I plotted more North than most albos as well. http://i68.tinypic.com/2e2pi5x.jpg

On impretome i plotted similar to Kelnendasi. But these others say im more northern. This calc says youre more Southern than me just by looking at it ... you got similar ANE but less whg and more ENF

Maybe 23andme data makes one more south. Im using ftdna. You would maybe be more northern or similar if i used 23andme or you ftdna

[Wrong]

On impretome i plotted similar to Kelnendasi. But these others say im more northern. This calc says youre more Southern than me just by looking at it ... you got similar ANE but less whg and more ENF

Maybe 23andme data makes one more south. Im using ftdna. You would maybe be more northern or similar if i used 23andme or you ftdna
I think I'd be quite similar to you here if I used Ftdna.


This and K36 makes me more Southern than usual.

[Lek]

These things are autism. I am Spartan according to K36 similarity.

http://i.imgur.com/fwRYSml.png

How do you do this?

[Wrong]

How do you do this?
http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

[Wrong]

This is what Doug McDonald showed me in 2013 when I sent my 23andme raw data file to him:


Most likely fit is 81.2% (+- 6.9%) Europe (various subcontinents)
and 18.8% (+- 6.9%) Mideast (various subcontinents)




All of which is saying it looks very much like Italian but
with some more eastern component, yet does not look
like it is farther east than the eastern shores of the Adriatic.

[RN97]

These things are autism. I am Spartan according to K36 similarity.

http://i.imgur.com/fwRYSml.png

lmfao. All the Albanians here calling Greeks non-Euro gets great genetic closeness to them.

[Wrong]

lmfao. All the Albanians here calling Greeks non-Euro gets great genetic closeness to them.
Only Athens and Peloponnesse where alot of Arvanites settled, I am closely related to my own folk. Not many people get above 85% in their own population.

I get a fuckton of Arvanite relatives on 23andme.

[Fustan]

Only Athens and Peloponnesse where alot of Arvanites settled, I am closely related to my own folk. Not many people get above 85% in their own population.

I get a fuckton of Arvanite relatives on 23andme.

Same.

[Dibran]

Only Athens and Peloponnesse where alot of Arvanites settled, I am closely related to my own folk. Not many people get above 85% in their own population.

I get a fuckton of Arvanite relatives on 23andme.

How can you tell? most my matches on 23 while obviously Balkan have empty profiles or anonymous as a name. there was like one Greek with the name Arvanitis. that was all I caught.

[Wrong]

How can you tell? most my matches on 23 while obviously Balkan have empty profiles or anonymous as a name. there was like one Greek with the name Arvanitis. that was all I caught.
There are many, I chatted with many of them since 2013 and they all admitted Arvanite ancestry.

[Dibran]

There are many, I chatted with many of them since 2013 and they all admitted Arvanite ancestry.

I just wish the anonymous ones would make profiles public or at least open for messaging. Its like, why take a DNA test and make everything private and non-co-operational? lol

[ChocolateFace]

How can you tell? most my matches on 23 while obviously Balkan have empty profiles or anonymous as a name. there was like one Greek with the name Arvanitis. that was all I caught.

Go to your relative matches on 23andme and look at the map view, that's what I used to do to see the locations of relatives and to my surprised had a lot of relatives in Greece. Mostly in regions where Albanians settled. Not sure if they still have that feature though.

[Dibran]

Go to your relative matches on 23andme and look at the map view, that's what I used to do to see the locations of relatives and to my surprised had a lot of relatives in Greece. Mostly in regions where Albanians settled. Not sure if they still have that feature though.

They got rid of it =(

[Lek]

lmfao. All the Albanians here calling Greeks non-Euro gets great genetic closeness to them.

Maybe these other Albanians are close to Greeks but I sure dont seem to be that close to Greeks but rather Montenigrins and Northern Albanians.