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View Full Version : Some Greek GEDmatch results... two of them GERMAN shifted??


Sikeliot
08-08-2017, 10:00 PM
Compared to Sicilians these come up 1/3 GERMAN. So I give some credit to those of you who said some Greeks shift northwest.

Arachova, Central Greece

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 30.69
2 Caucasus 28.36
3 North_European 24.63
4 Southwest_Asian 8.56
5 Gedrosia 5.7
6 Northwest_African 1.47
7 Siberian 0.6

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 O_Italian (Dodecad) 3.99
2 C_Italian (Dodecad) 8.68
3 Tuscan (HGDP) 9.12
4 TSI30 (Metspalu) 9.12
5 Greek (Dodecad) 9.73
6 N_Italian (Dodecad) 11.36
7 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 11.92
8 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 12.06
9 Romanians (Behar) 12.55
10 North_Italian (HGDP) 13.89
11 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.38
12 Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.39
13 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.05
14 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 16.05
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 21.22
16 Baleares (1000Genomes) 22.04
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 22.46
18 Galicia (1000Genomes) 22.92
19 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 23.55
20 Portuguese (Dodecad) 23.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 33.8% German (Dodecad) @ 1.35
2 76.5% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 23.5% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 1.66
3 83.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 16.2% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.68
4 66.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 33.8% German (Dodecad) @ 1.71
5 78.2% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.8% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.77
6 84.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 15.7% Russian (HGDP) @ 1.78
7 73.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.9% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 1.81
8 77.8% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 22.2% Romanians (Behar) @ 1.84
9 78.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.6% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.84
10 78.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.5% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.85
11 77.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.3% British (Dodecad) @ 1.87
12 77.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.6% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 1.92
13 78.6% Greek (Dodecad) + 21.4% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.92
14 64.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 35.6% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.93
15 77.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 22.7% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.94
16 65.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 34.2% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2
17 86.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 13.1% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.05
18 76.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 23.3% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.07
19 86.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 13.5% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.07
20 77.1% Greek (Dodecad) + 22.9% English (Dodecad) @ 2.08


Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 West_Med 17.8
2 East_Med 16.97
3 Atlantic 16.38
4 North_Sea 13.28
5 West_Asian 13.22
6 Baltic 9.85
7 Eastern_Euro 6.29
8 Red_Sea 4.74
9 Northeast_African 0.67
10 Siberian 0.49
11 Oceanian 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 6.6
2 Tuscan 7.03
3 Greek 7.27
4 Bulgarian 7.83
5 Italian_Abruzzo 8.65
6 Romanian 9.04
7 Central_Greek 10.16
8 North_Italian 10.17
9 West_Sicilian 10.66
10 East_Sicilian 10.68
11 Ashkenazi 11.24
12 Serbian 11.94
13 South_Italian 13.37
14 Portuguese 16.6
15 Spanish_Extremadura 16.74
16 Spanish_Galicia 16.85
17 Spanish_Andalucia 17.5
18 Spanish_Murcia 17.54
19 Italian_Jewish 17.64
20 Moldavian 17.67

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Tuscan + 46.5% Bulgarian @ 3.45
2 57.9% Tuscan + 42.1% Romanian @ 3.65
3 69.8% Central_Greek + 30.2% East_German @ 3.91
4 68.6% East_Sicilian + 31.4% East_German @ 3.94
5 69.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 30.9% Moldavian @ 3.96
6 85.5% Greek_Thessaly + 14.5% French_Basque @ 4.04
7 71.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 28.7% Croatian @ 4.1
8 75.8% Greek + 24.2% French @ 4.1
9 75.1% Tuscan + 24.9% Moldavian @ 4.11
10 78.7% Greek_Thessaly + 21.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.13
11 51.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 48.6% Romanian @ 4.14
12 63% South_Italian + 37% East_German @ 4.18
13 80.5% Greek_Thessaly + 19.5% Southwest_French @ 4.22
14 73.4% Greek + 26.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 4.24
15 77.1% Greek_Thessaly + 22.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.26
16 80% Greek_Thessaly + 20% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.27
17 80.9% Greek_Thessaly + 19.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.34
18 77.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.1% Ukrainian @ 4.36
19 53.3% East_Sicilian + 46.7% Serbian @ 4.37
20 55.1% Romanian + 44.9% West_Sicilian @ 4.38


Argos, Peloponnese:

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 31.73
2 Caucasus 26.86
3 North_European 24.17
4 Southwest_Asian 8.54
5 Gedrosia 4.93
6 Northwest_African 2.67
7 East_Asian 0.61
8 South_Asian 0.43
9 Sub_Saharan 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 O_Italian (Dodecad) 3.88
2 TSI30 (Metspalu) 8.38
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 8.53
4 Tuscan (HGDP) 8.72
5 N_Italian (Dodecad) 10.1
6 Greek (Dodecad) 11.01
7 North_Italian (HGDP) 12.6
8 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 13.04
9 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 13.08
10 Romanians (Behar) 13.44
11 Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.68
12 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 14.83
13 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 16.54
14 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 16.7
15 Baleares (1000Genomes) 20.41
16 Galicia (1000Genomes) 21.17
17 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 21.48
18 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 21.82
19 Portuguese (Dodecad) 22.05
20 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 22.27

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 33.9% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.05
2 64.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 35.1% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.11
3 65.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 34.7% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.12
4 65.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 34.6% English (Dodecad) @ 1.15
5 64.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 35.3% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.16
6 66.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 33.7% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.19
7 72.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 27.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 1.25
8 65.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 34.8% English (Dodecad) @ 1.26
9 65.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 34.9% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.29
10 65.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 34.6% German (Dodecad) @ 1.29
11 66.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 33.9% British (Dodecad) @ 1.34
12 65.6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 34.4% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 1.38
13 72.5% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 27.5% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 1.39
14 63.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 36.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.43
15 64.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 35.5% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.47
16 67% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 33% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.49
17 67.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 32.8% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.55
18 67.2% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 32.8% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.56
19 67.6% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 32.4% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.57
20 65.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 34.2% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 1.57


Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 19.11
2 West_Med 18.79
3 North_Sea 15.12
4 Atlantic 14.83
5 Baltic 10.93
6 West_Asian 9.02
7 Eastern_Euro 7.01
8 Red_Sea 4.82
9 Siberian 0.37
10 Oceanian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.34
2 Tuscan 7.22
3 Greek 7.73
4 Bulgarian 8.38
5 Romanian 9.39
6 North_Italian 9.89
7 Italian_Abruzzo 10.11
8 West_Sicilian 10.85
9 Central_Greek 10.94
10 Ashkenazi 11.29
11 East_Sicilian 11.33
12 Serbian 11.47
13 South_Italian 13.93
14 Spanish_Galicia 16.14
15 Portuguese 16.15
16 Spanish_Extremadura 16.61
17 Moldavian 17.27
18 Italian_Jewish 17.36
19 Spanish_Murcia 17.39
20 Spanish_Cataluna 17.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82% Greek_Thessaly + 18% Southwest_French @ 2.54
2 81.5% Greek_Thessaly + 18.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.6
3 77.4% Greek_Thessaly + 22.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.63
4 77.6% Greek_Thessaly + 22.4% Portuguese @ 2.71
5 78.1% Greek_Thessaly + 21.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.72
6 79.3% Greek_Thessaly + 20.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.8
7 79.5% Greek_Thessaly + 20.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.84
8 82.7% Greek_Thessaly + 17.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.88
9 81.4% Greek_Thessaly + 18.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.9
10 79.3% Greek_Thessaly + 20.7% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.92
11 80.7% Greek_Thessaly + 19.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.96
12 68.1% Greek_Thessaly + 31.9% North_Italian @ 2.99
13 80.1% Greek_Thessaly + 19.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.07
14 87.9% Greek_Thessaly + 12.1% French_Basque @ 3.07
15 81.5% Greek_Thessaly + 18.5% French @ 3.24
16 84.6% Greek_Thessaly + 15.4% South_Dutch @ 3.56
17 87.5% Greek_Thessaly + 12.5% Southwest_English @ 3.7
18 88.2% Greek_Thessaly + 11.8% Southeast_English @ 3.84
19 85.3% Greek_Thessaly + 14.7% East_German @ 3.89
20 73.5% Tuscan + 26.5% Moldavian @ 3.91



Elafonisos, Laconia, Peloponnese:

Dodecad:
# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 32.95
2 Atlantic_Med 27.32
3 North_European 21.4
4 Southwest_Asian 10.51
5 Gedrosia 6.63
6 Northwest_African 0.55
7 Siberian 0.51
8 East_African 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek (Dodecad) 5.17
2 O_Italian (Dodecad) 7.57
3 C_Italian (Dodecad) 8.59
4 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 10.09
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 10.45
6 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 10.95
7 Tuscan (HGDP) 11.03
8 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 11.26
9 TSI30 (Metspalu) 12
10 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 13.91
11 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 14.34
12 Romanians (Behar) 15.31
13 N_Italian (Dodecad) 16.59
14 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 16.6
15 North_Italian (HGDP) 18.62
16 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 18.89
17 Turkish (Dodecad) 22.13
18 Cypriots (Behar) 23.25
19 Turks (Behar) 24.55
20 Lebanese (Behar) 26.76

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.1% Cypriots (Behar) + 38.9% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.75
2 59.9% Cypriots (Behar) + 40.1% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.87
3 65.5% Cypriots (Behar) + 34.5% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 1.99
4 59.1% Cypriots (Behar) + 40.9% German (Dodecad) @ 2.12
5 83% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17% Russian (Dodecad) @ 2.34
6 82.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.3% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.37
7 58.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 41.7% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.43
8 82.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.8% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.45
9 62% Cypriots (Behar) + 38% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.48
10 60.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 39.3% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.48
11 62.9% Cypriots (Behar) + 37.1% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.48
12 83% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.49
13 81.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.8% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.51
14 85.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 14.4% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.51
15 84.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 15.2% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.52
16 83.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.9% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.52
17 62.1% Cypriots (Behar) + 37.9% English (Dodecad) @ 2.56
18 83.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 16.6% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.66
19 61.7% Cypriots (Behar) + 38.3% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.69
20 81.9% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 18.1% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.75

Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 24.82
2 West_Med 18.81
3 West_Asian 16.33
4 North_Sea 14.53
5 Atlantic 8.37
6 Baltic 7.38
7 Eastern_Euro 6.42
8 Red_Sea 2.28
9 Oceanian 0.89
10 Amerindian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 6.81
2 Central_Greek 7.16
3 East_Sicilian 8.77
4 Ashkenazi 8.95
5 Italian_Abruzzo 9.36
6 Greek 9.44
7 South_Italian 10.17
8 West_Sicilian 11.85
9 Tuscan 12.55
10 Italian_Jewish 13.9
11 Bulgarian 14.13
12 Romanian 15.63
13 Sephardic_Jewish 15.68
14 Algerian_Jewish 15.77
15 North_Italian 17.56
16 Serbian 18.65
17 Libyan_Jewish 18.67
18 Cyprian 18.94
19 Tunisian_Jewish 19.28
20 Turkish 19.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.2% Greek_Thessaly + 15.8% Armenian @ 4.96
2 85.8% Greek_Thessaly + 14.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 5.34
3 85.6% Greek_Thessaly + 14.4% Assyrian @ 5.43
4 87.4% Greek_Thessaly + 12.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.6
5 91.3% Greek_Thessaly + 8.7% Abhkasian @ 5.66
6 90.4% Greek_Thessaly + 9.6% Georgian @ 5.66
7 83.8% Greek_Thessaly + 16.2% Turkish @ 5.74
8 87.8% Greek_Thessaly + 12.2% Kurdish @ 5.75
9 83.3% Greek_Thessaly + 16.7% Cyprian @ 5.76
10 86.9% Greek_Thessaly + 13.1% Azeri @ 5.85
11 54.2% Greek_Thessaly + 45.8% Central_Greek @ 5.85
12 88.6% Greek_Thessaly + 11.4% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.86
13 88.6% Greek_Thessaly + 11.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.93
14 86.4% Greek_Thessaly + 13.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.95
15 91.4% Greek_Thessaly + 8.6% Ossetian @ 5.96
16 89.3% Greek_Thessaly + 10.7% Iranian @ 5.97
17 89.2% Greek_Thessaly + 10.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.99
18 89.7% Greek_Thessaly + 10.3% Kumyk @ 6.01
19 90.9% Greek_Thessaly + 9.1% Lezgin @ 6.03
20 91.1% Greek_Thessaly + 8.9% Tabassaran @ 6.05
brennus dux gallorum
08-08-2017, 10:15 PM
We are coming!!!!!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fc/bd/3f/fcbd3fa9e76d9736d761b81baa073b2f.jpg
brennus dux gallorum
08-08-2017, 10:18 PM
Seriously talking, I think this admixture is mostly pre-IE
Babak
08-08-2017, 10:20 PM
Let me take a closer look

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JxS5E-kZc2s/maxresdefault.jpg
Sikeliot
08-08-2017, 10:23 PM
Seriously talking, I think this admixture is mostly pre-IE

The heightened "Atlanto-Med" component is bringing them closer to NW Europeans. These Greek examples shift far north of Sicily but not in the usual direction.
Tauromachos
08-08-2017, 10:51 PM
The heightened "Atlanto-Med" component is bringing them closer to NW Europeans. These Greek examples shift far north of Sicily but not in the usual direction.

What you mean by North West in this context?
German?

What have Atlanto-Meds to do with Germans?

Suppose the results of Gedmatch are realy reliable?
If 2 people score German,perhabs they have some German ancestry.

In recent history mostly 'last century',there came some Germans to Greece
and stayed permanently there,learned Greek and married local people.
How is this representative of what native Greeks or real ancient Greeks in that region would score?

Sorry,but you can also take a person from Germany,of whom one parent has immigration background
lets suppose Arabic for the moment,"which is not so rare in modern Germany" and he would score more Mena than
any West Sicilian.
Would this be a proof that Germans are Mena shifted people?
Sikeliot
08-08-2017, 11:04 PM
What you mean by North West in this context?
German?

What have Atlanto-Meds to do with Germans?

Suppose the results of Gedmatch are realy reliable?
If 2 people score German,perhabs they have some German ancestry.

In recent history mostly 'last century',there came some Germans to Greece
and stayed permanently there,learned Greek and married local people.
How is this representative of what native Greeks or real ancient Greeks in that region would score?

Sorry,but you can also take a person from Germany,of whom one parent has immigration background
lets suppose Arabic for the moment,"which is not so rare in modern Germany" and he would score more Mena than
any West Sicilian.
Would this be a proof that Germans are Mena shifted people?

No, but the point is these are two different Greeks from entirely different regions who score this way. Anyway they shift toward Northwest Europe, and the point I was making is "compared to Sicily or Crete" they shift that way.

Their main component is Atlanto-Med above, not Caucasian while for southern Italians and Aegean islanders it'd be Caucasian.
Tauromachos
08-08-2017, 11:17 PM
Ok

Nevertheless,i neither buy your theory of Slavicized Greeks nor of predominantly North-West
European Greeks.
Greeks are predominantly what they are and what the name says!
People within the Greco-Roman familly,neither Slavs nor Germanics
"Pre-classic Mycanneans,Minoans"more in Crete and the Islands",Hellenic people of classical Greece,Greco-Romans and Byzantine Greeks".

Again,a real Northern influence in Greece is most probably from assimilated Vikings in Byzantine times and
not Ancient Greeks.

In Ancient Greece there where some relations with Celts.
And what you call Atlanto-Med could be Celtic.

The first inhabitants of Southern Germany where also Celts.
This way around it would make more sense..
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 02:56 AM
Well whatever the reason may be, they shift pretty far north.
Freeroostah
08-09-2017, 03:02 AM
Compared to Sicilians these come up 1/3 GERMAN. So I give some credit to those of you who said some Greeks shift northwest.

Greeks score ONLY NW.

NW-> Urnfield Culture -> Doric invasion

We are more related to the continental Celts than the Slavs
Freeroostah
08-09-2017, 03:06 AM
Seriously talking, I think this admixture is mostly pre-IE

The NW could be from the Urnfield Culture migrations that occurred in 1100 BC. One of those people were the Dorians!
In other words, we are closer to the ancient Celtic Tribes than the Slavic ones
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 03:13 AM
These people do have more NE Euro than Sicilians/islanders (hence 2 of the 3 scoring Bulgaria before Sicily) but the main thing shifting them north is indeed some sort of Western European influence, which was present in Mycenaeans (high AtlantoMed/Sardinian type element).
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 04:18 AM
Anyway even though they still shift north, it is obvious Laconians are CLOSER TO Sicilians than any other mainland Greeks are. They do have higher North European, but the components overall are not nearly as "off" as they are for northern or inland Peloponnesians, Thessalians, Macedonians etc. who are very northward shifted by comparison whether in an eastward or westward direction.
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 02:14 PM
Well whatever the reason may be, they shift pretty far north.

Only according to dodgy Gedmatch results,not to scientific papers on Greek genetics.

Trying to present Greeks as far North seems very odd to me:rolleyes:..

What comes next?
Will you start to claim that Greeks are more Northern than Scandinavians...???
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 02:15 PM
What comes next?
Will you start to claim that Greeks are more Northern than Scandinavians...???

North of Sicilians and on par with Tuscans is not that far north. :lol:
Hadouken
08-09-2017, 02:25 PM
SIKELIOT LOOK AT THIS I AM A NIGHTCLUBBER !!!!

71.7% Iranians (Behar) + 28.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.9
72.3% Iranians (Behar) + 27.7% S_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.2
74.5% Iranians (Behar) + 25.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.3
73.3% Iranians (Behar) + 26.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.3
78.6% Iranian + 21.4% Italian_South @ 3.68
76.3% Iranian_Shirazi + 23.7% Greek @ 4.07
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 02:55 PM
North of Sicilians and on par with Tuscans is not that far north. :lol:

:picard2:

You mentioned descriptions such as very northern shifted or far north for Greeks several times,therefore i refered to it.
Shall i quote every single post where you did so?
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 02:57 PM
:picard2:

You mentioned descriptions such as very northern shifted or far north for Greeks several times,therefore i refered to it.

I mean compared to say, Calabria. Not compared to Tuscany or to "regular" Southern Europeans.
brennus dux gallorum
08-09-2017, 02:58 PM
The NW could be from the Urnfield Culture migrations that occurred in 1100 BC. One of those people were the Dorians!
In other words, we are closer to the ancient Celtic Tribes than the Slavic ones

Precisely, I can also post some more material on that
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 03:03 PM
I mean compared to say, Calabria. Not compared to Tuscany or to "regular" Southern Europeans.

Ok,this is more likely to have some truth
Gangrel
08-09-2017, 03:18 PM
SIKELIOT LOOK AT THIS I AM A NIGHTCLUBBER !!!!

71.7% Iranians (Behar) + 28.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.9
72.3% Iranians (Behar) + 27.7% S_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.2
74.5% Iranians (Behar) + 25.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.3
73.3% Iranians (Behar) + 26.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.3
78.6% Iranian + 21.4% Italian_South @ 3.68
76.3% Iranian_Shirazi + 23.7% Greek @ 4.07

lmao
Freeroostah
08-09-2017, 03:34 PM
[/B]
Precisely, I can also post some more material on that

Well the fact that Mainland Greeks score in Tuscany rather than Ukraine is a strong evidence that we are getting shifted towards the North West and specifically in Central Europe.
This is our Doric component!
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 09:06 PM
Well the fact that Mainland Greeks score in Tuscany rather than Ukraine is a strong evidence that we are getting shifted towards the North West and specifically in Central Europe.
This is our Doric component!

Not all of them do. Some of them (mostly Macedonian, Thessalian, and even some northern Peloponnesians) score Bulgarian before Tuscan. But it depends. Some seem to shift northwest, others northeast. Peloponnese are the more "western" shifted ones.
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 09:20 PM
Well the fact that Mainland Greeks score in Tuscany rather than Ukraine is a strong evidence that we are getting shifted towards the North West and specifically in Central Europe.
This is our Doric component!

Nope Dude ,Dorians didn't came from Central Europe ,they were basicly Greeks,and belonged to the same family of people like the other Greek tribes and Romans.
Tuscana has to do with Etruskans who also belong to the Greco-Roman family.

This only proofs that Greeks are mostly related to Italians which is the most logical "Greco-Romans"
neither Central European nor Slavic nor Levantine.

Alot of ancient Greeks in Sicily where Dorians as well
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 09:45 PM
Alot of ancient Greeks in Sicily where Dorians as well

This is why SE Sicily which had the most Doric colonies is the most northward genetically on the island, while parts of Palermo and Messina which had no Greek input are more outlying.
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 09:46 PM
This is why SE Sicily which had the most Doric colonies is the most northward genetically on the island, while parts of Palermo and Messina which had no Greek input are more outlying.

And what means northward?
Germanic or Scandinavian?
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 09:49 PM
And what means northward?
Germanic or Scandinavian?

Shifted toward Eastern and Central Europe.
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 09:50 PM
Shifted toward Eastern and Central Europe.


???
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 09:51 PM
???

What was so difficult to understand about that? These Sicilians come up close to Peloponnesians and only slightly MENA like compared to them, and have higher North Euro input.
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 09:51 PM
???

Central Europe?
You mean Southern France?

Eastern Europe?
You mean Southern Russia and Caucasus?
Sikeliot
08-09-2017, 09:52 PM
???

Central Europe?
You mean Southern France?

Eastern Europe?
You mean Southern Russia and Caucasus?


Russia.
Tauromachos
08-09-2017, 09:58 PM
What was so difficult to understand about that? These Sicilians come up close to Peloponnesians and only slightly MENA like compared to them, and have higher North Euro input.

Do you have to be Mena to be not Northern shifted or native Med?
I doubt that

Seems in your world or in Gedmatch's world ,there exist only 2 things :Menas and Northern shifted people Germanics,Slavs e.c.t.
Nothing else except of this:rolleyes:
Freeroostah
08-10-2017, 02:59 AM
???

Central Europe?
You mean Southern France?

Eastern Europe?
You mean Southern Russia and Caucasus?

Central Europe as Hungary, Austria, Bavaria, and Switzerland
I personally score 60% similarity with the 1200BC Hungary on the Eurogenes calculators, which was during the Urnfield Culture.
Guess what happened in 1100 BC: A large migration of people from Central Europe moving south towards the Western Balkans and eventually Greece. One of those groups were the Dorians.
Between 1100 BC and 800BC Greece was in the Dark Ages(Γεωμετρικη Περιοδος) which was caused by the Central European invasions (Doric tribe for us).

Ancient Athenians were always referring to the Doric tribes (Spartans,Macedonians,Epirotes) as barbarian invaders and there was a reason for it
Freeroostah
08-10-2017, 03:02 AM
Not all of them do. Some of them (mostly Macedonian, Thessalian, and even some northern Peloponnesians) score Bulgarian before Tuscan. But it depends. Some seem to shift northwest, others northeast. Peloponnese are the more "western" shifted ones.

Macedonians and Thessalians might be shifted to the NE since they do have a significant amount of R1a but I think Epirotes look more NW, both genetically and phenotypically.
Sikeliot
08-10-2017, 04:30 AM
Macedonians and Thessalians might be shifted to the NE since they do have a significant amount of R1a but I think Epirotes look more NW, both genetically and phenotypically.

Epirotes are probably closer to Tuscans.
brennus dux gallorum
08-10-2017, 08:29 AM
Not all of them do. Some of them (mostly Macedonian, Thessalian, and even some northern Peloponnesians) score Bulgarian before Tuscan. But it depends. Some seem to shift northwest, others northeast. Peloponnese are the more "western" shifted ones.

The majority of thessalians I have seen score parts of Greece and central Italy before Bulgaria, meanwhile I have not seen northern peloponnesian scoring Bulgaria in the first 5 positions, unlike both Greece and South-central Italy. For sure there are thessalians that score Bulgaria first, but still minority

I am not familiar with Macedonian results, but the most "Balkan Macedonian" score I have seen was one who had a grandpa from fyrom, which makes sense

*notice that I say central Italy, as sometimes it's not Tuscany but abruzzo
Tauromachos
08-10-2017, 01:49 PM
Ancient Athenians were always referring to the Doric tribes (Spartans,Macedonians,Epirotes) as barbarian invaders and there was a reason for it

No they didn't,
Dorians where never considered Non Greek by Athenians.
Spartans and Laconians have more to do with Crete than with Epiros.
Macedonians where sometimes called barbarians by Athenians,because they had different customs.
For example they drank their wine without water,which Athenians considered Barbarian.

Its simple,Dorus'Dorians',Aeolus'Aeolians',Xuthus'Ioni ans,Acheans' where brothers in Greek mythology, sons of Hellen.
Sikeliot
08-10-2017, 03:36 PM
The majority of thessalians I have seen score parts of Greece and central Italy before Bulgaria, meanwhile I have not seen northern peloponnesian scoring Bulgaria in the first 5 positions, unlike both Greece and South-central Italy. For sure there are thessalians that score Bulgaria first, but still minority

I am not familiar with Macedonian results, but the most "Balkan Macedonian" score I have seen was one who had a grandpa from fyrom, which makes sense

*notice that I say central Italy, as sometimes it's not Tuscany but abruzzo

Thessalian are closer to Bulgaria than to Sicily. Not sure where Abruzzo fits into it but they plot south of Thessalian.
brennus dux gallorum
08-10-2017, 08:02 PM
Thessalian are closer to Bulgaria than to Sicily. Not sure where Abruzzo fits into it but they plot south of Thessalian.

But still closer to other regions of Italy than to Bulgaria
Ujku
08-10-2017, 08:14 PM
Macedonians and Thessalians might be shifted to the NE since they do have a significant amount of R1a but I think Epirotes look more NW, both genetically and phenotypically.

Isnt ev13 Albanian?
catgeorge
08-10-2017, 08:26 PM
Isnt ev13 Albanian?

first appearance of E-V13 (according to Lacan 2011) was dated to 5000BC and found in the Avellaner Cave in Spain. Can be found in England and Germany in decent percentages.

It's neolithic/south european
nightrider+
08-10-2017, 08:34 PM
German comes up before Russian in most of the results you post, yet somehow you always focus on the latter.

East Germans are Slavic shifted anyway.
Ujku
08-10-2017, 08:41 PM
first appearance of E-V13 (according to Lacan 2011) was dated to 5000BC and found in the Avellaner Cave in Spain. Can be found in England and Germany in decent percentages.

It's neolithic/south european

Isnt it more common among Albanians?
Tauromachos
08-10-2017, 08:47 PM
German comes up before Russian in most of the results you post, yet somehow you always focus on the latter.

East Germans are Slavic shifted anyway.

Still,Germans are also more far away from Greeks than Italians are.

At first place,closest to Greeks come Italians and all others there after
catgeorge
08-10-2017, 08:53 PM
Isnt it more common among Albanians?

In percentages yes - in absolute numbers no
Ujku
08-10-2017, 09:00 PM
In percentages yes - in absolute numbers no

So its possible that free is hellenized Albanian... He also looks Albanian...
catgeorge
08-10-2017, 09:04 PM
Still Germans are also more far away from Greeks than Italians are.

At first place,closest to Greeks come Italians and all others there after

It depends which part of Germany. Stuttgart get Oracle results that match this that scores high neolithic - Greeks is ranked 3 to 4

#PopulationPercent
1WEST_MED45.92
2EAST_MED28.45
3ATLANTIC11.1
4NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO8.46
5MIDDLE_EASTERN6.06

K11 scores Greek around 6-7

1 Neolthic_Anatolian_Farmer 57.63
2 WHG 24.71
3 Caucuses_Hunter_Gatherer 12.98
4 E_African 4.69

These calculators are bullshit anyway as it is configured to a bias.

This is due to Proto Linear Pottery culture which is due to this.

http://i.imgur.com/Xtl7C60.png
catgeorge
08-10-2017, 09:05 PM
So its possible that free is hellenized Albanian... He also looks Albanian...

Sure if you can show me where albanians where in 1200 AD in written texts.
Laberia
08-10-2017, 09:17 PM
Sure if you can show me where albanians where in 1200 AD in written texts.
Of course, very easy:

Ok. let`s quote a greek author, Kostas Giakoumis:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233673710_Fourteenth-century_Albanian_migration_and_the_%27relative_aut ochthony%27_of_the_Albanians_in_Epeiros_The_case_o f_Gjirokaster
I don`t share his point of view, but opinions are one things and facts and documents another thing. I am quoting this greek scholar:


The presence of Albanians in the Epeirote lands from the beginning
of the thirteenth century is also attested by two documentary sources:
the first is a Venetian document of 1210, which states that the continent
facing the island of Corfu is inhabited by Albanians;(20) and the second
is letters of the Metropolitan of Naupaktos John Apokaukos to a
certain George Dysipati, who was considered to be an ancestor of
the famous Shpata family.(21) Furthermore, I suggest that names that
appear in two acts of the Angevins of Naples dated 1304 (22) using the
forms, Albos, Spatos, Catarucos, Bischesini, Aranitos, Lecenis,
Turbaceos, Marchaseos, Scuras, Zeneuias, Bucceseos, Logoresc and
Mateseos are either well-known, less-known or totally unknown names
of Albanian clan leaders at that time.



(20.) G. Tafel - G. Tomas (1856), 122.
(21). N. Bees - E. Seferli, 'Unedierte Schriftstiicke aus der Kanzlei des Johannes
Apokaukos', BN] 21 (1974), doc. 62. For views on this name as being ancestral to
the name 'Shpata', see P. Xhufi (1994), 47 and note 132.
(22). L. Thalloczy - K. Jirecek - M. Sufflay (1913), 166a, doc. 563 and 167-168,
doc. 569.

According to Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epirus
Ἤπειρος, Ḗpeiros (Doric: Ἄπειρος, Ápeiros), meaning "mainland" or terra firma.[3] It is thought to come from an Indo-European root *apero- 'coast',[4] and was originally applied to the mainland opposite Corfu and the Ionian islands.[5]
So according to Venetians in year 1210, so not centuries later but at the beginning of the XIII century the continent facing the island of Corfu, la terra firma was inhabited by Albanians. I don`t see a slavic sea, i don`t see greeks in Epir, i don`t see vlacs, only Albanias. And when you are in Corfu and you look in the east, you see at your left number 7, Laberia and to your right number 8 Chameria. This is what also saw this Venetian official, when he prepared this document. And this albanians did not arrived during the night in year 1210. This Albanians were there, because the Albanians are autochthonous in Epirus or South Albania.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj82/bledikorcari/imagecgi.jpg
catgeorge
08-10-2017, 09:19 PM
Of course, very easy:

Whats interesting with that no one in Byzantine knows any Albanians but named everyone else.
Laberia
08-10-2017, 09:21 PM
Whats interesting with that no one in Byzantine knows any Albanians but named everyone else.

You asked for a source ? You got it.
catgeorge
08-10-2017, 09:26 PM
You asked for a source ? You got it.

Thats not a source - a source is where it has come from. Like texts written between 10-11th century preferably from a Byzantine scholar.
Laberia
08-10-2017, 09:28 PM
Thats not a source - a source is where it has come from. Like texts written between 10-11th century preferably from a Byzantine scholar.

Gataki, you asked for an information and i fulfilled your curiosity. Now keep talking about greeks. This thread is not about Albanians.
Tauromachos
08-10-2017, 09:30 PM
It depends which part of Germany. Stuttgart get Oracle results that match this that scores high neolithic - Greeks is ranked 3 to 4

#PopulationPercent
1WEST_MED45.92
2EAST_MED28.45
3ATLANTIC11.1
4NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO8.46
5MIDDLE_EASTERN6.06

K11 scores Greek around 6-7

1 Neolthic_Anatolian_Farmer 57.63
2 WHG 24.71
3 Caucuses_Hunter_Gatherer 12.98
4 E_African 4.69

These calculators are bullshit anyway as it is configured to a bias.

This is due to Proto Linear Pottery culture which is due to this.

http://i.imgur.com/Xtl7C60.png

This would rather proof that Germans have some Greek ancestry.

I'm not an expert on Germans,but when i was in Stuttgart i noticed that compared to other places in Germany they had much more brunette or even dark haired people and i mean the native Germans there,yes i can distinguish them from newcomers.

They still looked German mostly,but alot of them where dark and some would pass as Italian or Southern European.

Germany has also native Med types.

This guy is a known German footballer and clearly is Med or Alpine Med.
Despite that still looks German'German Med type,yes it exists',but is well passable in Portugal or Greece,even in Crete
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-of8mYb1llzo/T3YhgQoJfoI/AAAAAAAAE6w/qZaAgvk6v1k/s1600/MULLER_GERD+BIOGRAPHY.jpg
brennus dux gallorum
08-10-2017, 09:35 PM
Isnt ev13 Albanian?

there is no haplogroup being referred as "albanian" in any source, it's a neolithic HP common in Europe as a whole, and hell, can't you see that one post of you was enough to ruin the thread? (see catgeorge-laberia dialogue)
Laberia
08-10-2017, 09:38 PM
there is no haplogroup being referred as "albanian" in any source, it's a neolithic HP common in Europe as a whole, and hell, can't you see that one post of you was enough to ruin the thread? (see catgeorge-laberia dialogue)

I didn`t ruined your thread. Someone asked an information and i gave it. That`s all. Stop behaving like a.......
brennus dux gallorum
08-10-2017, 09:46 PM
I didn`t ruined your thread. Someone asked an information and i gave it. That`s all. Stop behaving like a.......

I said ujku ruined the thread, to begin with
Freeroostah
08-11-2017, 02:39 AM
Isnt ev13 Albanian?

No, its Balkan Neolithic. South Italy and South Spain have also a huge proportion of it
Freeroostah
08-11-2017, 02:48 AM
So its possible that free is hellenized Albanian... He also looks Albanian...

EV13 is the highest haplogroup in Greece (J2 follows)
Same with FYROM.
Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania have also a significant amount of EV13

Not gonna lie, in many calculators I plot in Albania and even Kosovo but then again, many Greeks do.
Sikeliot
08-11-2017, 03:01 AM
EV13 is the highest haplogroup in Greece (J2 follows)
Same with FYROM.
Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania have also a significant amount of EV13

Not gonna lie, in many calculators I plot in Albania and even Kosovo but then again, many Greeks do.

E-V13 is the Balkan specific subclade. It only spread outside of the Balkans by Greek input.