Turul Karom GEDmatch & DNA Results

[Deniz]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 48.52
2 West_Asian 23.77
3 Southern 21
4 Siberian 3.63
5 East_Asian 1.94
6 South_Asian 1.04
7 African 0.1

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 47.28
2 West_Asian 23.81
3 Southern 22.12
4 Siberian 4.23
5 East_Asian 1.53
6 South_Asian 0.87
7 African 0.16

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 45.18
2 West_Asian 25.74
3 Southern 22.16
4 Siberian 5.97
5 East_Asian 0.68
6 African 0.24
7 South_Asian 0.03

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Baltic 45.36
2 West_Asian 25.53
3 Southern 22.91
4 Siberian 5.61
5 South_Asian 0.43
6 African 0.15

Some more Dodecad K7b results for Turan.:lol:

[Kaspias]

Change title to "White Turks Thread"

[mutabor]

Lol, the whole idea behind the Altaic language family was that Turkic and Uralic languages are closely together. It got discredited specifically because they were found to not be closely related.

At the same time Uralic and Altaic languages share similar grammatical structure. And Uralic most common haplogroup N is of Siberian origin. There is a clear connection between these two linguistic groups. But linguists can't connect two groups due to different vocabularies.

Another example. Linguists can't connect Korean and Japanese languages despite surprisingly identical grammar and that haplogroups' migration points that Japanese Yayoi ( more dominant group than local Jomons/Ainu) came from Northern China and Korea. It is obvious that settlers in Japan were Korean language speakers who mixed with local Jomons hence Japanese language slightly changed its sound.

[Blondie]

If anyone says hungarians are turkic then

1. He have never been in Hungary
2. He know nothing about us or hungarian identity
3. He know nothing about the genetic sources, because steppe hungarians and modern hungarians are two very different thing

According to Attila Türk and the latest archeogenetic results, genetically steppe hungarians have nothing to do with turks or finno ugrics, but early hungarians were very close to other iranian nomads like scythians or alans.
https://www.zalamedia.hu/vezeto-hirek/egyszervolt/ami-biztos-az-a-honfoglalas

Árpád, Béla and the other hungarian leaders had r1a genetic which is indo-european, iranian:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMVZQiccNaQ

The hungarians and eastern indo europeans, iranians originated from same place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

Neparáczki says the asian admixture in the early hungarian genetic mostly came from Mongolia from Xiongnu/Huns not from Turks:
http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Hundreds of loan words adopted from Old Turkic languages prove we were closely connected to turkic peoples, but it does not mean we are turks, thats nonsense.

The old magyar genetic was indo european, iranian (not turkic, not finno ugric) with east asian admixture from the Huns, the language is finno ugric.

By the way the hungarian settlers were not numerous only 40000-60000 people and the population of Carpathian Basin was 1 million. The modern hungarian population is descedants of those 50000 nomad, the 1 million local peoples (slavs, germans) thats why we have no genetic connection with them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDDoP6Ml-M

If someone think they are turkic in Hungary, thats really clinical status.

[steppenwolf]

Who is this stupid LoLeL? He thumbed me down for 5 times in a row, LOL.

Come out, motherfucker!

LMAO this poor troll has nothing to say and the only thing he can do is thumbing down people.

[Impaler]

LMAO this poor troll has nothing to say and the only thing he can do is thumbing down people.

A kid with no life, definitely, hahahah.

[Kaspias]

If anyone says hungarians are turkic then

1. He have never been in Hungary
2. He know nothing about us or hungarian identity
3. He know nothing about the genetic sources, because steppe hungarians and modern hungarians are two very different thing

According to Attila Türk and the latest archeogenetic results, genetically steppe hungarians have nothing to do with turks or finno ugrics, but early hungarians were very close to other iranian nomads like scythians or alans.
https://www.zalamedia.hu/vezeto-hirek/egyszervolt/ami-biztos-az-a-honfoglalas

Árpád, Béla and the other hungarian leaders had r1a genetic which is indo-european, iranian:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMVZQiccNaQ

The hungarians and eastern indo europeans, iranians originated from same place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

Neparáczki says the asian admixture in the early hungarian genetic mostly came from Mongolia from Xiongnu/Huns not from Turks:
http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

Hundreds of loan words adopted from Old Turkic languages prove we were closely connected to turkic peoples, but it does not mean we are turks, thats nonsense.

The old magyar genetic was indo european, iranian (not turkic, not finno ugric) with east asian admixture from the Huns, the language is finno ugric.

By the way the hungarian settlers were not numerous only 40000-60000 people and the population of Carpathian Basin was 1 million. The modern hungarian population is descedants of those 50000 nomad, the 1 million local peoples (slavs, germans) thats why we have no genetic connection with them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlDDoP6Ml-M

If someone think they are turkic in Hungary, thats really clinical status.

We are not talking about iron-metal age scythians, or neolithic Hungarians. Your words points out that period. According to this sense, Turkey Turks are true Aryans. But it is totally wrong.

Magyar Tribe originated between 400~900 A.D. and they were ancestors of today's Hungarians, but obviously they are mostly assimilated by Central and East Europeans.

Hungary is not Turkic, but their ancestors were Turkic. And some of them still carry small amount of this heritage.

[Token]

Yes, the next DNA test and the last one will be FTDNA. I want to see if GEDmatch would be different or not.

Buy G25, your raw data will change minimally from company to company.

[Blondie]

"Magyar Tribe originated between 400~900 A.D. and they were ancestors of today's Hungarians"

No, modern hungarians have nothing to do with old hungarians. We have 0 genetic connection. Ancient pannonians, west slavs and germans are our genetic ancestors.

"Hungary is not Turkic, but their ancestors were Turkic. "

No, old magyars were very close to iranians not to turks, the genetic results prove it. The asian markers originated from the mongoloic populations not from turks. The hungarian language was also not turkic...

[Marmara]

"Magyar Tribe originated between 400~900 A.D. and they were ancestors of today's Hungarians"

No, modern hungarians have nothing to do with old hungarians. We have 0 genetic connection. Ancient pannonians, west slavs and germans are our genetic ancestors.

"Hungary is not Turkic, but their ancestors were Turkic. "

No, old magyars were very close to iranians not to turks, the genetic results prove it. The asian markers originated from the mongoloic populations not from turks. The hungarian language was also not turkic...

I want to contest to one part.

Xiognu and Huns were Turkic peoples, Huns were spesifically Western Turkic (Oghur) Mongolians didn't invade westwards untill Genghis Khan.

[Jana]

I have a feeling Stears North Caucasus admixture and his father Iranid/Caspian med/Pamirid shifted look are due to this Iranic ancestry, which seem present in Szekely but not in Hungarian Hungarians.

[mutabor]

No, old magyars were very close to iranians not to turks, the genetic results prove it. The asian markers originated from the mongoloic populations not from turks. The hungarian language was also not turkic...

The problem is that mongoloid markers of Uralics and Altaic Turkics overlap.

The funny thing is that the most pure carriers of "Finno-Ugric" haplogroup N are Turkic speaking Yakuts. Though there is an opinion that Yakuts are Turkified Tungusic speakers.

[Marmara]

The problem is that mongoloid markers of Uralics and Altaic Turkics overlap.

Real Uralic marker is N1c and it doesn't overlap with Turks. R1a-z93 however does. R1a-z93 was originally Iranic/Scythian but was absorbed by Turks. Actually this Y-DNA is still common among existing Indo-Iranians.

People claim Ottoman dynasty is R1a-z93, might be true.

[Blondie]

I want to contest to one part.

Xiognu and Huns were Turkic peoples, Huns were spesifically Western Turkic (Oghur) Mongolians didn't invade westwards untill Genghis Khan.

Nooo :DD Xiongnu and Huns were mongoloic, they migrated into Europe in 4. century, 150-200 years earlier than the old turks. Xiongnu had mongoloic names not turkic, the Xiongnu tribal names were also mongoloic. Sun and moon symbol of Xiongnu that discovered by archaeologists is similar to Mongolian Soyombo symbol. Their native hoeland was in Mongolia:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Hsiung-nu-Empire.png

Xiongnu, Huns = mongoloic

[mutabor]

Real Uralic marker is N1c and it doesn't overlap with Turks.

N1c is highest in Yakuts. If Yakuts were Turkified Tungusic speakers then it shows that Uralic languages and Tungusic have common origin which linguists seem to deny.

[Kaspias]

I want to contest to one part.

Xiognu and Huns were Turkic peoples, Huns were spesifically Western Turkic (Oghur) Mongolians didn't invade westwards untill Genghis Khan.

+1

Also "old Magyars" were Turkic, but old "Hungarians" were not.

[Blondie]

The problem is that mongoloid markers of Uralics and Altaic Turkics overlap.

The funny thing is that the most pure carriers of "Finno-Ugric" haplogroup N are Turkic speaking Yakuts. Though there is an opinion that Yakuts are Turkified Tungusic speakers.

No, the uralic Nganassan peoples have 93% N marker, Yakuts have 75%, nenets 75%, finns 60%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N-M231

[Jana]

In case if Armenian Highland origin of PIE shows to be true, which seem more and more likely by going days, than there is great chance entire R1a lineage might have been Indo-Europeanised Indo-Uralic branch, as well as Andronovo culture.

[Kaspias]

Nooo :DD Xiongnu and Huns were mongoloic, they migrated into Europe in 4. century, 150-200 years earlier than the old turks. Xiongnu had mongoloic names not turkic, the Xiongnu tribal names were also mongoloic. Sun and moon symbol of Xiongnu that discovered by archaeologists is similar to Mongolian Soyombo symbol. Their native hoeland was in Mongolia:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Hsiung-nu-Empire.png

Xiongnu, Huns = mongoloic

No need to tell anything after this post XD

She literally made great-huns Mongol. Claiming "Magyars were iranic" is another interesting topic lol

[mutabor]

Nooo :DD Xiongnu and Huns were mongoloic, they migrated into Europe in 4. century, 150-200 years earlier than the old turks. Xiongnu had mongoloic names not turkic, the Xiongnu tribal names were also mongoloic. Sun and moon symbol of Xiongnu that discovered by archaeologists is similar to Mongolian Soyombo symbol. Their native hoeland was in Mongolia:


What does "mongoloic" mean? Mongolian?

[Blondie]

+1

Also "old Magyars" were Turkic, but old "Hungarians" were not.

What? Magyar = hungarians and old magyars = old hungarians :D If old magyars were turkic, why their language and genetic were not turkic? :D

[Blondie]

What does "mongoloic" mean? Mongolian?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolic_languages

[Blondie]

No need to tell anything after this post XD

She literally made great-huns Mongol. Claiming "Magyars were iranic" is another interesting topic lol

Yes huns were mongoloic and genetically the early magyars were iranic. They had mostly r1a and T marker, not turkic.

[Marmara]

Nooo :DD Xiongnu and Huns were mongoloic, they migrated into Europe in 4. century, 150-200 years earlier than the old turks. Xiongnu had mongoloic names not turkic, the Xiongnu tribal names were also mongoloic. Sun and moon symbol of Xiongnu that discovered by archaeologists is similar to Mongolian Soyombo symbol. Their native hoeland was in Mongolia:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Hsiung-nu-Empire.png

Xiongnu, Huns = mongoloic

:picard1:

Turkic homeland is also in Mongolia, West Mongolia. All historians agree Huns were most likely to be Turkic. There was no Mongolic presence in West of Mongolia untill Genghis Khan, meanwhile people like Sabirs (who are certainly Turkic) inhabited coasts of Black Sea even before Göktürk expansion.

[Blondie]

:picard1:

Turkic homeland is also in Mongolia, West Mongolia. All historians agree Huns were most likely to be Turkic. There was no Mongolic presence in West of Mongolia untill Genghis Khan, meanwhile people like Sabirs (who are certainly Turkic) inhabited coasts of Black Sea even before Göktürk expansion.

No, the old turkic homeland was in East Central Asia, West Altay not Mongolia which is a homeplace of mongols.

[Ryuk]

I noticed. Steppe Aryans (Indo-Iranics) tought underdeveloped Turks everything too, all Turkic titles including name ''Turan'' come from Iranics, so they just transmitted knowledge from them to Slavs


no,Jana.

The people of the PBT reached the agro-pastoralist Bronze Age level long before the arrival of the Indo aryans.

It is true that the names of nobility(Kagan=King,katuun=Queen,Tarkan=general etc) come from Iranian languages,but these terms have passed only to old oghuz,then from there words passed to other turkic languages ,especially kipchak.

The term Turan was used until the modern era for Central Asia,but later became an ethnic designation by Turkish nationalists

[Marmara]

No, the old turkic homeland was in East Central Asia, West Altay not Mongolia which is a homeplace of mongols.

Why do you even contest? Western Mongolia even today is inhabited by Kazakhs. Orkhon Inscriptions (oldest recorded Turkic language) is located in Mongolia.

[Ryuk]

No, the old turkic homeland was in East Central Asia, West Altay not Mongolia which is a homeplace of mongols.

Urheimat of Proto bulgaro turkic people was baraba forest steppe.Later,at 800-500 BC Proto common turkic began their expansion to Altay and arter that their expansion progress to more eastern regions.

[mutabor]

In case if Armenian Highland origin of PIE shows to be true, which seem more and more likely by going days, than there is great chance entire R1a lineage might have been Indo-Europeanised Indo-Uralic branch, as well as Andronovo culture.

Haplogroup R1a in India, Pakistan and Central Asia is the only connection of this region with European speakers. If only I didn't miss that R1b has high proportion in that region?

R1a distribution

http://bosnjackidnk.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Geographic-distribution-of-haplogroup-R1a1a-frequency-Spatial-frequency-map-was-obtained.jpg

Let's compare with R1b distribution

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Haplogroup_R1b_World.jpg

[Ryuk]

https://archive.is/Kt533/8111dc8eff1c78293c2121c0dd0c8bb2c391fcef.jpg

https://archive.is/Kt533/d8ef4ea0b201d644c9b4484278bcd4d88559ae1a.jpg

https://archive.is/Kt533/64f85e2f29cb0dc78803b2b195884ebbfc678de9.jpg

[Jana]

Haplogroup R1a in India, Pakistan and Central Asia is the only connection of this region with European speakers. If only I didn't miss that R1b has high proportion in that region?

R1a distribution


You didn't understand the point. Obviously R1a arrived in India as IE speaker, but there is great chance it was Indo-Europeanised in Andronovo culture.
Btw J2a is another connection of all these regions, these two seem to have traveled togheder at same stage.

[Blondie]

No need to tell anything after this post XD

She literally made great-huns Mongol. Claiming "Magyars were iranic" is another interesting topic lol

Genetic origin of the steppe hungarian females: 38% or more germanic, 6% caucasian, 2% slavic, 6% other european, 37% asian (mongol, siberian)
Genetic origin of the steppe hungarian males: the 3 dominant y haplogroup: R1a and T haplogroup which is iranic and r1b which is germanic

Source:
http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/1/Neparaczki_PhD.pdf

There were no turkic markers.

[Blondie]

Why do you even contest? Western Mongolia even today is inhabited by Kazakhs. Orkhon Inscriptions (oldest recorded Turkic language) is located in Mongolia.

Eastern Khazaks have 100% mongol genetic.

[Marmara]

You didn't understand the point. Obviously R1a arrived in India as IE speaker, but there is great chance it was Indo-Europeanised in Andronovo culture.
Btw J2a is another connection of all these regions, these two seem to have traveled togheder at same stage.

What makes you say that? Other Indo-Europeans existed in Central Asia before Indo-Iranians, they were proto-Tocharians who have founded the Afanasievo culture, they were R1b if i remember correctly.

[Yaglakar]

Urheimat of Proto bulgaro turkic people was baraba forest steppe.Later,at 800-500 BC Proto common turkic began their expansion to Altay and arter that their expansion progress to more eastern regions.

Cut the bullshit already. Constantly squealing about some "paper" which has not even been published. :D

[Ryuk]

The funny thing is that the most pure carriers of "Finno-Ugric" haplogroup N are Turkic speaking Yakuts. Though there is an opinion that Yakuts are Turkified Tungusic speakers.

Main tungusic haplogroup is C3.The Evenk tribes who live only close to the yakuts carry a significant proportion of Y DNA N

The illusion that Yakutish contains intense Tungusic words is a very common misconception.


Borrowings and odd words in the Sakha vocabulary
Sakha contains lots of words which make one wonder where they could possibly have come from.
In fact, Sakha was described as a mixed tongue at least as earlier as Radlov (1908), who counted that out of 1750 words in a glossary, about 33% were Turkic, 26% Mongolic, and the rest were of unknown origin.
Presently, we believe that all these borrowings come from three main sources: (1) Middle Mongolian (or Middle Buryat, pronunciation: /boo-RAHT/), as it happens in most "Siberian" languages, with Buryat being particularly probable due to its geographical proximity to Kurykans; (2) Russian, again as in most "Siberian", with the number of loanwords in abstract and cultural lexis being exceedingly high; (3) an unknown early substrate, most likely of Yeniseian type.
Among Mongolic borrowings in the basic lexis, one could easily name the following words:
(1) Khakas sïray, Altay chïray, Tuvan shïray, Sakha sirey "face" probably from Mongolic, cf. Middle Mongolian chiray, Buryat sharay. Also, "beauty" in Kyrgyz and Kazakh;
(2) Altay mechirtke, Tuvan merzhergen, Sakha mekchirge "owl" from Mongolic *begchergen, Buryat begserge "barred owl";
(3) Sakha bey-em, Tuvan bod-um, Khakas poz-ïm, Altay boy-ïm "self", which is probably akin to the Mongolian bod and biye "body", though this is not necessarily a loanword;
(4) Tuvan iye, Sakha iye "mother", cf. Khalkha Mongolian ex "mother";
(5) Sakha kharba: "to swim", cf. Khalkha Mongolian khayiba, khaiva;
(6) Sakha khallan "sky", cf. Middle Mongolian e'ülen "cloud(s)";
(7) Sakha moGoy "snake", cf. Middle Mongolian moqai, Khalka mogoi;
(8) Sakha mas "tree", cf. Khalka mod, Middle Mongolian mod-un, Daur mo:d, etc., as well as Evenk mo:, Nanai mo:, Written Manchu mo:;
(9) Sakha ergilin "to turn", cf. Khalka ergeG "turn around";
(10) Sakha suruy "to write", suruk "letter, mail", cf. Written Mongolian zhiru-, Buryat zura- "to draw"

Russian words are often hard to recognize because they are modified in accordance with the Sakha phonology, cf. the following examples from Swadesh-215: Sakha chierbe, Russian cherv' "worm"; Sakha sieme, Russian semya "seed"; Sakha ba:lkï, Russian palka "a stick"; Sakha bï:l, Russian pïl' "dust"; Sakha muora, Russian mor'e "sea". This phonological discrepancy implies that other borrowings and archaisms may have become unrecognizable. For instance, the following Sakha words of Turkic origin are rather hard to spot at first glance:
Sakha tïmnï "cold", akin to Karakhanid tum, tumlïG "cold";
Sakha xaya "mountain" akin to kaya "rock" in most other TL's;
Sakha ürüN "white", akin to Orkhon, Old Uyghur, Karakhanid ürüN, Khalaj hirin "white" (a rare archaism);
Sakha buruo "smoke" akin to Old Turkic bur- "to boil, evaporate";

The presumable Yeniseian borrowings are particularly interesting.
Sakha kö "to fly", cf. Ket kï
Sakha kötör "bird", cf. Ket keNassel
Sakha kini "he, she, it", cf. Ket ki, kide [Note that kini is normally (probably, according to Ubryatova (1960-80's) explained as being akin to the Seljuk kendi "self", however herein we wonder about a different perspective.]
Sakha kuttan "to fear", cf. Ket koran, qoren', qoranai
Sakha söp, söptö:x "right, correct", cf. Ket sotdas'
Sakha sü:r "to flow", cf. Ket sennei
It should be noted that Proto-Sakha could not borrow from Ket, the only living representative of the Yeniseian family, but rather from an unknown extinct Yeniseian language. In any case, these presumable cognates are uncertain and are provided herein only as a matter of tentative conjecture.
Curiously, no clear-cut borrowings from Evenk(i) (Tungusic) were found, and the resemblance with some of them may either be coincidental or some of the presumable loanwords were in fact borrowed the other way around, that is, in some cases into Evenk:
Sakha mas "tree", cf. Evenk mo: (an Altaic root) (probably, from Tungusic to Sakha)
Sakha seri: "war", cf. Evenk kusi:n, buleme:chik, cherig, serI: (probably, from Sakha into Evenk)
Sakha örüs "river", cf. Evenk birag, ene, olus (dialectical), orus (dialectical) (apparently, from Sakha into Evenk).
We might conclude that Evenk played no significant role in the formation of Sakha. That is not so surprising considering that Sakha acted as a cultural superstratum to Evenk, whereas Evenk, being scattered over enormous territory, was apparently losing ground to Sakha in the course of the 15-20th centuries.

[Marmara]

Eastern Khazaks have 100% mongol genetic.

It's not even part of discussion, i say Huns were Turkic and your claims don't disprove it.

[Yaglakar]

No, the old turkic homeland was in East Central Asia, West Altay not Mongolia which is a homeplace of mongols.

Do you release that there is a difference between Mongolic and Mongol? Mongols are the people Ghengis Khan and they migrated from Amur region to plains of Mongolia between mid 11-12th centuries. Mongolic peoples were undoubtedly part of the Xiongnu confederation, however Xiongnu/Hunnu words in Han chronicles are of proto-Turkic origin.

[Blondie]

It's not even part of discussion, i say Huns were Turkic and your claims don't disprove it.

What? :D Are you blind? Xiongnu had mongol names, mongol symbols and mongol tribe names. Huns were early mongols not turks...

[mutabor]

Eastern Khazaks have 100% mongol genetic.

Yes, Turkic tribes and Mongols have common genetic and place of origin and their languages have similar grammar.

[Yaglakar]

By the way talking about basic haplogroups is useless. Only haplotypes and markers matter.

[Ryuk]

Cut the bullshit already. Constantly squealing about some "paper" which has not even been published.

What you call "nonsense" is the most detailed study of Turkic languages.The arguments of my theory is stronger than your outdated arguments,and I don't need to explain anything more to you.

If you are interested in published articles,you can go and read proto Basque-Chinese or proto dravid-altaic etymologic dictionaries wrote by people like Dybo, Stratostin etc.:D

[Blondie]

Do you release that there is a difference between Mongolic and Mongol? Mongols are the people Ghengis Khan and they migrated from Amur region to plains of Mongolia between mid 11-12th centuries. Mongolic peoples were undoubtedly part of the Xiongnu confederation, however Xiongnu/Hunnu words in Han chronicles are of proto-Turkic origin.

Nooo, the Xiungnu genetic was mongol:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17905712

[Jana]

What makes you say that? Other Indo-Europeans existed in Central Asia before Indo-Iranians, they were proto-Tocharians who have founded the Afanasievo culture, they were R1b if i remember correctly.

The fact that Maykop culture was mostly CHG and had no R1, and it was considerered predecesor of steppe Yamnanya who spreak PIE later.
Also because Mycenean Greeks had very low steppe and they were J2a. Perhaps IE language was first spoken among CHG mountain folk south of Caucasus and it spread trough cultural contanct to Yamnanya and later Andronovo.

Don't forget Yamnanya was half CHG, so IE language could have arrived trough female line which isn't unseen in history (Basque language and R1b).
Another thing is than Bronze Age Anatolians has almost no steppe/EHG, but they were IE speaking. They had CHG though.

[Marmara]

What? :D Are you blind? Xiongnu had mongol names, mongol symbols and mongol tribe names. Huns were early mongols not turks...

Huns and Xiognu aren't the same people. Although thought they could be related. One is in Mongolia between 3rd century BC to 1st century AD, other is in Eastern Europe between 4th and 6th century AD. Hunnic rulers had Turkic names.

That being said, Eurasian nomadic confederations were always multi-ethnic.

[Marmara]

Yes, Turkic tribes and Mongols have common genetic and place of origin and their languages have similar grammar.

No, it's mostly proven Turkic and Mongolic peoples have unrelated origins, they just happen to cross each other's way in ancient times.

[Yaglakar]

Nooo, the Xiungnu genetic was mongol:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17905712

Xiongnu were a multi-ethnic confederation composed of proto-Mongolic, Iranic and proto-Turkic peoples, but the dominant language was proto-Turkic based on Han chronicles. A similar picture was in the case of European Huns, but they have mixed with Europoids heavily absorbing those disorganized no names Scythians and Sarmatians.

[mutabor]

Another thing is than Bronze Age Anatolians has almost no steppe, but they were IE speaking.

In Caucasus languages there is pronunciation which is reminiscent to Arabic/Semitic with very heavy and almost guttural H sound. I think there was linguistic continuity between Anatolia and their Semitic neighbors. While European languages have absolutely different sounds on almost genetic level.

[Blondie]

Huns and Xiognu aren't the same people. Although thought they could be related. One is in Mongolia between 3rd century BC to 1st century AD, other is in Eastern Europe between 4th and 6th century AD. Hunnic rulers had Turkic names.

That being said, Eurasian nomadic confederations were always multi-ethnic.

Huns = Xiungnu = mongoloic peoples

[Ryuk]

The fact that Maykop culture was mostly CHG and had no R1, and it was considerered predecesor of steppe Yamnanya who spreak PIE later.
Also because Mycenean Greeks had very low steppe and they were J2a. Perhaps IE language was first spoken among CHG mountain folk south of Caucasus and it spread trough cultural contanct to Yamnanya and later Andronovo.


CHG lineage in Yamnaya is different from those in Iran and the Caucasus and diverse.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/11/big-deal-of-2018-yamnaya-not-related-to.html?m=1


Another thing is than Bronze Age Anatolians has almost no steppe, but they were IE speaking.


The remains analyzed in Anatolia comes from a plundered inner Anatolian settlement and this place had where the dense non-IE population(Hatti,assyrian) lives.So the results are probably not belonging to the Hittites(Neša)

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/07/how-relevant-is-arslantepe-to-pie-debate.html?m=1

[Blondie]

Xiongnu were a multi-ethnic confederation composed of proto-Mongolic, Iranic and proto-Turkic peoples, but the dominant language was proto-Turkic based on Han chronicles. A similar picture was in the case of European Huns, but they have mixed with Europoids heavily absorbing those disorganized no names Scythians and Sarmatians.

What han chronicles? Proof? And language doesnt matter, the hungairan language is finno ugric and we have nothing to do with them, 0 genetic connection.

[Jana]

I would not take Davidski as source, he is one of most biased people with agenda among genetic bloggers.

[Marmara]

The fact that Maykop culture was mostly CHG and had no R1, and it was considerered predecesor of steppe Yamnanya who spreak PIE later.
Also because Mycenean Greeks had very low steppe and they were J2a. Perhaps IE language was first spoken among CHG mountain folk south of Caucasus and it spread trough cultural contanct to Yamnanya and later Andronovo.

Don't forget Yamnanya was half CHG, so IE language could have arrived trough female line which isn't unseen in history (Basque language and R1b).
Another thing is than Bronze Age Anatolians has almost no steppe/EHG, but they were IE speaking. They had CHG though.

I have also thought about it before actually, but we can say that both Myceneans and IE Anatolians were mostly descended from chalcolithic farmers who were similar to CHG. J2 crossed to Greece from Anatolia and Minoans didn't speak Greek, and they were basically Ancient Greeks only lacking the steppe admixture.

[Yaglakar]

What you call "nonsense" is the most detailed study of Turkic languages.The arguments of my theory is stronger than your outdated arguments,and I don't need to explain anything more to you.

If you are interested in published articles,you can go and read proto Basque-Chinese or proto dravid-altaic etymologic dictionaries wrote by people like Dybo, Stratostin etc.:D

These are your dreams to make proto-Turks white. Based on linguistic evidence proto-Turkic homeland or point of origin is Gansu-Great Wall corridor close to Mongolic peoples and Chinese. Hence, numerous shared vocabulary with Mongols and numerous Chinese loanwords in proto-Turkic and hence modern Turkic languages.

Do you even know what proto-Oghuz means when you use it? Languages like Khakass, Uyghur, Tuvan, Uzbek are technically Oghuz languages even more "Oghuzic" than nominal Oghuz languages. But that is a quite a long story to explain for a brainwashed mind. :)

[Jana]

What han chronicles? Proof? And language doesnt matter, the hungairan language is finno ugric and we have nothing to do with them, 0 genetic connection.

Where do you think Stears Finnish components are from if not from Uralic ancestors ? :D

nMonte:

Austria_Tyrol 35.30
Romania_SW 30.75
Lithuanian 20.45
North_Dagestan 5.85
Finnish_East 4.05
Karelian_Tver 2.15
GR_Istanbul 0.95
GR_Cyclades 0.25
Sweden 0.10
GR_Thrace 0.05
IT_Tuscany 0.05

[mutabor]

Why would South Caucasus populations be Indo-European speakers while their surrounding genetic relatives ( Semitic and native Caucasus) are non-Indo-European speakers.

[Marmara]

What han chronicles? Proof? And language doesnt matter, the hungairan language is finno ugric and we have nothing to do with them, 0 genetic connection.

Yes you may have 0 connections with Huns, but it has no effect on the fact core of Huns were Turkic.

[Ryuk]

I would not take Davidski as source, he is one of most biased people with agenda among genetic bloggers.

Davidski's writings generally consist of the transfer of other scientific studies to his blog.This includes the articles I wrote to you.I mean, it's not what davidski made up.Now I'm getting cold to search for original articles,but there was nothing wrong with it.

[Blondie]

Why would South Caucasus populations be Indo-European speakers while their surrounding genetic relatives ( Semitic and native Caucasus) are non-Indo-European speakers.

Caucasus is a native homeland of indo europeans not the semitic peoples.

[Yaglakar]

What han chronicles? Proof? And language doesnt matter, the hungairan language is finno ugric and we have nothing to do with them, 0 genetic connection.

Language is legacy and hence the most important element to identify who was who historically. Language is far more binding than genetics. I am pretty sure that early proto-Turks had Mongol like genetics before mixing with Steppe Indo-Europeans.

[mutabor]

By the way it is a big mistake to think that only Eastern Kazakhs are "Mongols". Kazakhs in all regions have similar autosomal DNA.

[Blondie]

Yes you may have 0 connections with Huns, but it has no effect on the fact core of Huns were Turkic.

Huns were mongoloic not turkic :) and early magyars had lot of connection with them by female side. Because the strong steppe hungarian guys have f*cked lot of mongoloic hun woman :D thats called ancient WMAF couple :D

This is an asian hun face, clearly mongol:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/cc/79/9acc793ef636c9a65231ef1e73cbbd20.jpg

[Mingle]

Why do you even contest? Western Mongolia even today is inhabited by Kazakhs. Orkhon Inscriptions (oldest recorded Turkic language) is located in Mongolia.

Kazakhs in Mongolia are recent migrants that only came in the 19th century as refugees from Kazakhstan after Kazakhstan was invaded by Russia. Same applies to the Kazakhs living in Xinjiang (China).

[mutabor]

Caucasus is a native homeland of indo europeans not the semitic peoples.

Caucasus is G and J predominantly. And J1 are Semites.

[Marmara]

Huns were mongoloic not turkic :) and early magyars had lot of connection with them by female side. Because the strong steppe hungarian guys have f*cked lot of mongoloic hun woman :D thats called ancient WMAF couple :D

This is an asian hun face, clearly mongol:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/cc/79/9acc793ef636c9a65231ef1e73cbbd20.jpg

You are just repeating yourself, and Turkic peoples were also Mongoloid by appearance. I will give it to your age.

[mutabor]

Huns were mongoloic not turkic :)

This is an asian hun face, clearly mongol:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/cc/79/9acc793ef636c9a65231ef1e73cbbd20.jpg

Yes. She looks like Kazakh Turkic person.

[Ryuk]

These are your dreams to make proto-Turks white

PBT people not "white" they were ANE rich siberians,probably looked like samoyeds.


Based on linguistic evidence proto-Turkic homeland or point of origin is Gansu-Great Wall corridor close to Mongolic peoples and Chinese

No,full opposite.I've explained this a dozen times.


Do you even know what proto-Oghuz means when you use it? Languages like Khakass, Uyghur, Tuvan, Uzbek are technically Oghuz languages even more "Oghuzic" than nominal Oghuz languages. But that is a quite a long story to explain for a brainwashed mind.

The definition of the languages of Oguz covers Turkish,Azerbaijani,Turkmen,salar and argu.

No turkologist accepts the Turkic languages of Siberia or the Turkic languages kipchak belongs in the Oguz languages, whether they are Altaicist or otherwise.Sometimes uyghur and uzbek classified as with oghuzes because high oghuz influence in them.You'd know that if you did a superficial investigation.You seem to be completely ignorant about it.For simplest, read the classification of Talat Tekin.You will maybe learn some basic information

[Blondie]

Yes. She looks like Kazakh Turkic person.

No :DD She looks like a fully mongoloid mongol :D And Khazaks have mongol genetic...

[Leto]

Kazakhs in Mongolia are recent migrants that only came in the 19th century as refugees from Kazakhstan after Kazakhstan was invaded by Russia. Same applies to the Kazakhs living in Xinjiang (China).
Excuse me, but where did you pull that from?

[Ryuk]

Excuse me, but where did you pull that from?


The Kazakh Khanate was founded in 1456-1465 by Janybek (Zhany-bek) Khan and Kerey Khan in the Jety-Su area (that is in the southeastern part of the present-day Kazakhstan), following a successful rebellion against the Uzbek Ulus and its Khan Abu'l-Khayr Khan, a descendant of Genghis Khan [described by Mukhammed Khaydar in Tarih-i-Rashidi]. The early years of the Kazakh Khanate were marked by the struggle against the Uzbek leader Muhammad Shaybani, who was defeated in 1470.

Consequently, the Jeti-Su (Zhetysu) ("The Seven Waters") area to the north of Almaty and especially the area of the Chu river, can be regarded as Kazakh Urheimat, where the Kazakh Khanate was first founded and where the Kazakhs began their expansion to the Great Steppe in the north. On the other hand, the Chu River, that now runs along the Kazakh-Kyrgyz border from the present-day territory of Kyrgyzstan, is also often seen as a traditional Kyrgyz habitat. Actually, this is where Bishkek, the capital of Kyrgyzstan, is located. Almaty, the largest city of Kazakhstan, is only 200 km (120 miles) away from Bishkek across the Zaili (=Trans-Ilian) Alatau Ridge, so both settlements are situated at the foot of the Tian Shan Mountains, nearly in the same area. Consequently, the geographic and historical connection between the two ethnicities becomes quite evident

[Blondie]

You are just repeating yourself, and Turkic peoples were also Mongoloid by appearance. I will give it to your age.

Turks were turanids (mixed race) not mongoloids...

[mutabor]

No :DD She looks like a fully mongoloid mongol :D And Khazaks have mongol genetic...

What is mongol genetic? How can one ethnic group assign particular DNA? And Russians have Polish genetic?

[Marmara]

Turks were turanids (mixed race) not mongoloids...

That's the modern Turks, after expanding and mixing with Scythians. Original Turks were Mongoloid.

[Mingle]

Excuse me, but where did you pull that from?

This is for China, but it applies to Mongolia as well.

https://i.imgur.com/w4XcGqm.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/XsoU9Bp.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/qN4MG0Y.png

Wikipedia mentions this regarding the Kazakhs of Mongolia:


In the 19th century, the advance of the Russian Empire troops pushed Kazakhs to neighboring countries. In around 1860, part of the Middle Jüz Kazakhs came to Mongolia and were allowed to settle down in Bayan-Ölgii, Western Mongolia and for most of the 20th century they remained an isolated, tightly knit community. Ethnic Kazakhs (so-called Altaic Kazakhs or Altai-Kazakhs) live predominantly in Western Mongolia in Bayan-Ölgii Province (88.7% of the total population) and Khovd Province (11.5% of the total population, living primarily in Khovd city, Khovd sum and Buyant sum). In addition, a number of Kazakh communities can be found in various cities and towns spread throughout the country. Some of the major population centers with a significant Kazakh presence include Ulaanbaatar (90% in khoroo #4 of Nalaikh düüreg,[65] Töv and Selenge provinces, Erdenet, Darkhan, Bulgan, Sharyngol (17.1% of population total)[66] and Berkh cities.

[Yaglakar]

PBT people not "white" they were ANE rich siberians,probably looked like samoyeds.



No,full opposite.I've explained this a dozen times.



The definition of the languages of Oguz covers Turkish,Azerbaijani,Turkmen,salar and argu.

No turkologist accepts the Turkic languages of Siberia or the Turkic languages kipchak belongs in the Oguz languages, whether they are Altaic or otherwise.You'd know that if you did a superficial investigation.You seem to be completely ignorant about it.For simplest, read the classification of Talat Tekin.You will maybe learn some basic information

You don't need to explain anything. You are spamming your "PBT" like a lunatic. It is not even published anywhere, some merdiven work. Turkic language classifications are a modern contemporary allocation which simplify complex migration patterns, and linguists don't even agree where to place which language, this especially the case in the east. Linguists simply "took" "some" medieval Turkic tribes and named the groups after them. Proto-Oghuz is the language of Khaganates and modern closest derivatives are Tuvan, Yugur, Khakass. The medieval linguistic and cultural inheritor of that language was Uighur Buddhist state of Toquz Oghuz, Qocho.

[Leto]

This is for China, but it applies to Mongolia as well.

Wikipedia mentions this regarding the Kazakhs of Mongolia:
Well, a lot of their descendants also came back after 1991 as part of the official repatriation program. Kazakhs were never settled people anyway, they were roaming the steppes looking for pastures.

[Leto]

That's the modern Turks, after expanding and mixing with Scythians. Original Turks were Mongoloid.
Well, the two Göktürk samples were between 40 and 50% East Eurasia if I remember correctly. And already a lot of European-like DNA. There was a thread and I posted there a modern person similar to them (half Kalmyk half Russian).

[mutabor]

The closest languages to original Turkic in terms of pronunciation and peculiar sounds I hear in Chukchi and american Inuit languages. What makes Kazakh language distinct is explosive guttural K sound which is absent in Mongolian. This explosive K sound I found in Chukchi and Inuit Amerinidan languages and also in Siberian Ket langauge. Though Ket people live in proximity to Altai region.

Kazakh


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k9rVnKnzW0

Chukchi


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wzDs4S6nPA

Inuit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0lrGBaawsk&t

Ket


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCnWPOHc0YY

[Hadouken]

That's the modern Turks, after expanding and mixing with Scythians. Original Turks were Mongoloid.

who were the first turks from which all turks came ? göktürks right ?

[mutabor]

There are two reasons why Chukchi sounds like Kazakh. Main Kazakh haplogroup is C. If we look at migration of this haplogroup in the Far East then one branch went north towards Chukchi area.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png/800px-Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png

Another explanation is through migration of haplogroup Q if we presume that people with this haplogroup spoke with guttural K. Ket people carry such haplogorup and they spoke with guttural K.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-7Jr2F9QmiA/maxresdefault.jpg

[Marmara]

who were the first turks from which all turks came ? göktürks right ?

Turks existed prior to it obviously. Göktürks are actually just a group of Turkic peoples who conquered Central Asia and gave the name "Türk", before that Turkic peoples weren't called Turks.

[oszkar07]

We are not talking about iron-metal age scythians, or neolithic Hungarians. Your words points out that period. According to this sense, Turkey Turks are true Aryans. But it is totally wrong.

Magyar Tribe originated between 400~900 A.D. and they were ancestors of today's Hungarians, but obviously they are mostly assimilated by Central and East Europeans.

Hungary is not Turkic, but their ancestors were Turkic. And some of them still carry small amount of this heritage.




I believe there was to some degree Turkic admixture in the Hungarians or some % of the Hungarians.

I think its very debatable as to how Turkic Hungarians were genetically on the whole.
They certainly had period of time when they had lot of contact with Turkic people, but Hungarian language is only unique to Hungary , most Turkic people's can understand each other through their languages at least to certain point.
Hungarians and Turks cant understaand each other at all except a few words here and there, I know someone will post the sentences about the frogs and the apples now but believe me a Hungarian and a Turkic cannot have any form of conversation with each other when they speaking their own languages .

[Jana]

Davidski's writings generally consist of the transfer of other scientific studies to his blog.This includes the articles I wrote to you.I mean, it's not what davidski made up.Now I'm getting cold to search for original articles,but there was nothing wrong with it.

He claimed Schyntians were R1a Polish like people, and latest peper on that proved it false. He also claimed ancient Romans and Greeks were East European like people but Mycenaean paper proved it was very far from true :D Actually modern mainland Greeks are more East European genetically than their ancient ancestors. LOL

[Hadouken]

Turks existed prior to it obviously. Göktürks are actually just a group of Turkic peoples who conquered Central Asia and gave the name "Türk", before that Turkic peoples weren't called Turks.

so who are the first ones and how much mongoloid

[mutabor]

The area where haplogroup C3 turned West in the Far East is where Tungusic people live ( Evenki people). Tungusic people carry the highest percentages of haplogroup C3.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png/800px-Migration_of_the_Y_chromosome_haplogroup_C_in_East _Asia.png

I don't hear guttural K sound but still I hear resemblance to Turkic language in different departments.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxqYho59K7E&t=72s

In Nanai Tungusic language guttural K appears.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU-PdZ9hLvE

[Ryuk]

He claimed Schyntians were R1a Polish like people, and latest peper on that proved it false. He also claimed ancient Romans and Greeks were East European like people but Mycenaean paper proved it was very far from true :D Actually modern mainland Greeks are more East European genetically than their ancient ancestors. LOL

But davidsky shared the most recent Scythian paper in his blog and without hesitation he admitted that Scythians were R1b.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/10/cimmerians-scythians-and-sarmatians.html?m=1

He also acknowledged that the mycenes carried mostly Neolithic compounds as autosomally.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/08/steppe-admixture-in-mycenaeans.html?m=1

As I said,davidsky acts according to the results of previously published research,and I have read CHG studies independently of him, believe me, the CHG component in the Yamna is different from the Iranian and Caucasian peoples, and there is no genetic affinity in maykop and Yamna.The Maykop must be the ancestor of the Circassian peoples today.

The so-called Hittite samples were collected at arslantepe ruins,and even during the Hittite period, this region had dense Hurrian and Assyrian populations.It's unlikely these results belong to the Hittites.

[Karkurdu]

That's the modern Turks, after expanding and mixing with Scythians. Original Turks were Mongoloid.

Even the Okunevo Culture was not fully Mongoloid. Proto-Turkic speakers could be Europo-mongoloid thousands of years ago before the Scythians, Huns or Göktürks.

[Karkurdu]

Turks were turanids (mixed race) not mongoloids...

You sound so friggin familiar sweety.

[Jana]

But davidsky shared the most recent Scythian paper in his blog and without hesitation he admitted that Scythians were R1b.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/10/cimmerians-scythians-and-sarmatians.html?m=1

He also acknowledged that the mycenes carried mostly Neolithic compounds as autosomally.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/08/steppe-admixture-in-mycenaeans.html?m=1

As I said,davidsky acts according to the results of previously published research,and I have read CHG studies independently of him, believe me, the CHG component in the Yamna is different from the Iranian and Caucasian peoples, and there is no genetic affinity in maykop and Yamna.The Maykop must be the ancestor of the Circassian peoples today.

The so-called Hittite samples were collected at arslantepe ruins,and even during the Hittite period, this region had dense Hurrian and Assyrian populations.It's unlikely these results belong to the Hittites.

You convinced me :thumb001:

[mutabor]

Ornaments of Tungusic people ( Evenki, Nanai)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6y9Jo5DJ3is/hqdefault.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/ee/f5/94/eef594eeb6d5c313a4083b9f255d585a.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/564x/1d/b8/29/1db8290a74a831df40b9275d5fc21b89.jpg

Ornaments of Kazakhs

https://decormaster.kz/images/st/4.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/6e/72/3a/6e723a5318a1a27ba0e4ecbd249184bd.jpg

https://static-nur.akamaized.net/pogudx1shum73ebmvg.a33b2d5f.jpg

[Kaspias]

https://preview.ibb.co/fSMx8V/origin-karasuk-culture.png

Check autosomal PCA of XiongNu and Karasuk(which is known as including proto-turks (https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/35123983.pdf)). Look how connected they.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Slx8IFhVkrQ/Wy459pQa59I/AAAAAAAABqY/IM3g5lexA10-vPQyIuJoEfXxnWaGrr7UQCLcBGAs/s1600/PCA1-Xiong-nu.png

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-erYF4ammfDU/Wy45_rzh5DI/AAAAAAAABqc/lh6o0OF08xUrvTZsl0h02tZqfQiiHQ_CACLcBGAs/s1600/PCA1-Xiong-nu%2B%2528min.%2Bspan.png

Also haplogroups, yes.

The Xiongnu was a federation of mercenaries. The royal Hun line ruled the Xiongnu.
Note that it is not so simple to just equate the Xiongnu with the Huns, because the Xiongnu was a federation of mercenaries that was made up of different groups. Some of these groups the Huns conquered and subjugated, and then they made them a part of the Xiongnu. However, the key points to note are that the Huns created it, and it was ruled by the Luandi royal paternal Hun line. The Huns were also members of the Xiongnu, with the Hun khan (king) being the supreme ruler of it under the title of Shanyu. That is why one finds Q, C, R, and N haplogroups in the Xiongnu, but only the Q haplogroup in the Huns.



Over the past decade, Chinese archaeologists have published several reviews regarding the results of excavations in Xinjiang. They imply the Xiongnu's supreme ruling class. Particularly interesting are the tombs in the cemetery at Heigouliang, Xinjiang (the Black Gouliang cemetery, also known as the summer palace of the Xiongnu king), east of the Barkol basin, near the city of Hami. By typing results of DNA samples during the excavation of one of the tombs, it was determined that of the 12 men: 6 Q1a* (not Q1a1-M120, not Q1a1b-M25, not Q1a2-M3), 4 Q1b-M378, 2 Q1a.




DA354 Kurma_EBA DA354 Q-M1083 Q-L472 Q1a Q-BZ2199 (BZ2199, BZ2239, BZ2238, BZ2220, BZ2217) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ2199/

RISE662 Okunevo_EMBA RISE662 Q-L54 Q-L54 Q1a2a1 Q-L332 (YP761, YP767, YP765, BZ433) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L332/

RISE670 Okunevo_EMBA RISE670 Q-L940 Q-L940 Q1a2b Q-L940 (L940, SK1996, Y2635) // Q-L527 (Y2679, FGC6940)

RISE718 Okunevo_EMBA RISE718 Q-L330 Q-L330 Q1a2a1c R - Q-L332 (BZ433,YP763, YP765, YP773, YP774, YP778, YP781) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L332/

RISE719 Okunevo_EMBA RISE719 Q-L334 Q-L330 Q1a2a1c Q-BZ180 (BZ194, BZ365, BZ380, BZ177, BZ418, BZ180, BZ181, BZ185) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ180/

DA334 Shamanka_EBA DA334 Q-L55 Q-L53 Q1a2a Q-YP4004 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4004/
DA335 Shamanka_EBA DA335 Q-L53 Q-L53 Q1a2a Q-BZ2199 (BZ2199,BZ2238), Q-YP4004 (Y20259,) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ2199/
DA336 Shamanka_EBA DA336 Q-L53 Q-L53 Q1a2a Q-BZ2199 (BZ2245,BZ2238), Q-YP4004 (BZ577) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ2199/
DA338 Shamanka_EBA DA338 Q-L53 Q-L53 Q1a2a Q-YP4004
DA339 Shamanka_EBA DA339 Q-L334 Q-L330 Q1a2a1c Q-YP1102 (YP1102, Y11233, Y11236, Y11243, Y11938, Y11944) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP1102/

DA355 UstIda_LN DA355 Q-L892 Q-M346 Q1a2 Q-YP4004





137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes

Damgaard et al., 2018


DA105 Q-L715 Q1-M25 ERS2374357 Kurgan 1 / 4 (grav 4.), Uch-Kurbu, TianShanHun, 1769 BP Q-L715 (L715, Y9299, Y9301, Y9306, Y11671, YP809) Q-BZ1000 (BZ1000, BZ934)

DA127 Q-YP4500 Q2-Y1150 ERS2374370 Aktas, Issyk, Tian Shan, 1634 BP, OutTianShanHun два снипа уровня Q-YP4500 (YP4501, YP4497) и BY62065 (6899245 CT)

DA141 Q-YP771 Q1-L330 ERS2374377 Несветай II Кург.33-п.1 I в. (сарматы) 1933 BP Q-BZ180 (BZ180, BZ182/ZS3313, BZ184, BZ378, BZ382, BZ412)

DA161 Q-L330 Q1-L330 ERS2374384 катакомбники/аланы 7(6-8) век н.э. Архонский, 1500-1100 BP Y5261 (Q-L330), Y18330 (Q-L332)

DA162 Q-YP4000 Q1-YP4004 ERS2374385 катакомбники/аланы 3(2-4) век н.э. Бесланский, 1900-1500 BP BZ5214+ https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ5214/

DA221 Q-YP1695 Q-L332 ERS2374408 "Karagaly 1 burial site, grave 9, 2565 BP, Nomad_IA Tian Shan
" YP1695+ BZ425+ BZ438+ Z513+ BZ427- Y31277- BZ543- BZ431- (нужно дождаться анализа) YFull https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP1695/

DA343 Q-YP1102 Q1-L330 ERS2374419 Prehistoric Hunter-Gatherers of the Baikal Region, Siberia; 4597-3726 BP, Glazkovo near Irkutsk Q-YP1102 (Y11941,Y11237,Y11949) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP1102/

DA353 Q-YP4004 Q1-YP4004 ERS2374420 Prehistoric Hunter-Gatherers of the Baikal Region, Siberia; 4597-3726 BP, Glazkovo near Irkutsk Q-YP4004 (YP3951, YP3959, YP3976, YP4062...), BZ2202 https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4004/

DA356 Q-YP1102 Q1-L330 ERS2374421 Prehistoric Hunter-Gatherers of the Baikal Region, Siberia; 4597-3726 BP, Glazkovo near Irkutsk Q-YP1102 (Y11938,Y11241,Y11946,Y11948) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP1102/

DA361 Q-YP4004 Q1-YP4004 ERS2374422 Prehistoric Hunter-Gatherers of the Baikal Region, Siberia; 4597-3726 BP, Glazkovo near Irkutsk Q-BZ2199 (BZ2245, BZ2238, BZ2230, BZ2205, BZ2217, BZ2197) https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ2199/

DA47 Q-L330 Q1-L330 ERS2374317 "Kurgan nr. K9 (individ. nr. 1), Keden; 2065 BP, TianShanSaka
" Q-L330* (нужно дождаться анализа) YFull https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/

DA54 Q-L715 Q1-M25 ERS2374324 Kurgan nr. K70, Keden; 1595 BP, TianShanHun Q-L715 (BZ990)

DA74 Q-L713 Q1-M25 ERS2374339 Kurgan nr. 30 (child, buried together with another individual), Baskya 2; 1514 BP, TianShanHun Q-L715 (BZ990, Y9300, Y9305, Y9309, Y9311, YP811) Q-L713 (Y10786)

DA86 Q-L715 Q1-M25 ERS2374344 "Kurgan nr. 16 (human (warrior) buried together with horse), Boz-Adyr; 1468 BP, Turk Tian Shan
" Q-L715 (YP864, YP788, Y9304)

DA20 Q-YP771 Q1-L330 ERS2374303 Kurgan Sjiderti 17, Burial 1, Sjiderte, Pavlodar; 2233 BP, Nomad_Hun-Sarmatian (Q-BZ182) YP779, BZ182, BZ183, BZ259, BZ369, BZ380, 14031876/11911170GA


At last, my paternal surname points out a Turkic tribe that living around Danube, speaking different language from Oghuz Turks. According to Evliya Çelebi - Seyahatname.

And i'm here with Q-L330 Y-DNA(which is same with Hun ruling class) and Turk ethnicity. I really don't want to mention this iranic thing btw. I don't have time to explain. Basically some of Scythians were Iranic, but neither Huns nor Magyars were definitely not.

Have a good night.

[Turul Karom]

Wow, just came back to the screen to find 10 more pages. I'll read through and compose replies accordingly.

Glad the thread can facilitate so much talk about steppe Hungarian and other Turkic topics. Thanks for everyone's interest!


https://youtu.be/8lg4gP3d4vY

[mutabor]

Samoyedic Nenets language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI1kC5h3Dp8&t=369s

Khanty language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV2JoGqcFrU

[Joso]

That's the modern Turks, after expanding and mixing with Scythians. Original Turks were Mongoloid.

Were not original Turks proto-mongoloid( amerindian like)? I remember Gütelkin said that turanids have ANE, not modern East Asian neo-mongoloid

[mutabor]

Were not original Turks proto-mongoloid( amerindian like)?

I think they were a mixed population of neo-mongoloids ( haplogroup C) and paleo-Siberians ( haplogroup Q).

[Joso]

I think they were a mixed population of neo-mongoloids ( haplogroup C) and paleo-Siberians ( haplogroup Q).

Did not the neo-mongoloid influence came later? Maybe they were mostly Q originally?

[Yaglakar]

https://preview.ibb.co/fSMx8V/origin-karasuk-culture.png

Check autosomal PCA of XiongNu and Karasuk(which is known as including proto-turks (https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/35123983.pdf)). Look how connected they.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Slx8IFhVkrQ/Wy459pQa59I/AAAAAAAABqY/IM3g5lexA10-vPQyIuJoEfXxnWaGrr7UQCLcBGAs/s1600/PCA1-Xiong-nu.png

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-erYF4ammfDU/Wy45_rzh5DI/AAAAAAAABqc/lh6o0OF08xUrvTZsl0h02tZqfQiiHQ_CACLcBGAs/s1600/PCA1-Xiong-nu%2B%2528min.%2Bspan.png

Also haplogroups, yes.

The Xiongnu was a federation of mercenaries. The royal Hun line ruled the Xiongnu.
Note that it is not so simple to just equate the Xiongnu with the Huns, because the Xiongnu was a federation of mercenaries that was made up of different groups. Some of these groups the Huns conquered and subjugated, and then they made them a part of the Xiongnu. However, the key points to note are that the Huns created it, and it was ruled by the Luandi royal paternal Hun line. The Huns were also members of the Xiongnu, with the Hun khan (king) being the supreme ruler of it under the title of Shanyu. That is why one finds Q, C, R, and N haplogroups in the Xiongnu, but only the Q haplogroup in the Huns.



Over the past decade, Chinese archaeologists have published several reviews regarding the results of excavations in Xinjiang. They imply the Xiongnu's supreme ruling class. Particularly interesting are the tombs in the cemetery at Heigouliang, Xinjiang (the Black Gouliang cemetery, also known as the summer palace of the Xiongnu king), east of the Barkol basin, near the city of Hami. By typing results of DNA samples during the excavation of one of the tombs, it was determined that of the 12 men: 6 Q1a* (not Q1a1-M120, not Q1a1b-M25, not Q1a2-M3), 4 Q1b-M378, 2 Q1a.



At last, my paternal surname points out a Turkic tribe that living around Danube, speaking different language from Oghuz Turks. According to Evliya Çelebi - Seyahatname.

And i'm here with Q-L330 Y-DNA(which is same with Hun ruling class) and Turk ethnicity. I really don't want to mention this iranic thing btw. I don't have time to explain. Basically some of Scythians were Iranic, but neither Huns nor Magyars were definitely not.

Have a good night.

Yes, there you go. These are Qumulians from Qumul/Qamul/Hami. One of the most mongoloid subgroups of Uyghurs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayaV7izaR0c

[steppenwolf]

That's the modern Turks, after expanding and mixing with Scythians. Original Turks were Mongoloid.

Any source for it? I know that Asian Huns had mongoloid features but not sure about the rest since Khazars and White Huns for example were described as white race in many sources.

[Lehel]

Yawn.

[Chris596]

You are true Magyar my friend.

https://i.imgur.com/sClOgBv.jpg