WHY exactly are Greek islanders closer to southern Italians?

[Sikeliot]

It's established by professional peer reviewed studies that Greek islanders are genetically very similar to southern Italians, and much closer to them than to mainland Greeks. This mostly applies to Crete and the Dodecanese.

But the question is, why?

It cannot be that the islands retained more Mycenaean ancestry, because Mycenaeans had different components to any modern day Italian or Greek despite overlapping with both.

My guess is that the Aegean islands, like Sicily for instance, received an additional wave of Middle Eastern admixture and didn't absorb so many Balkan migrations, and as such ended up close to southern Italians.

[Tauromachos]

Because Southern Italians come mostly from Greek people.

[Sikeliot]

Because Southern Italians come mostly from Greek people.

That explains Apulia. They are basically Greeks in Italy.

But it doesn't explain why Sicilians and Calabrese are close to people in Rhodes but not to those in Thessaly.

[Tauromachos]

That explains Apulia. They are basically Greeks in Italy.

But it doesn't explain why Sicilians and Calabrese are close to people in Rhodes but not to those in Thessaly.

It does explain that too.

Since the Sicilian and Calabrese and the Rhodians both come from a basic Greek stock with extra Levantine input which is absent in other Greeks
and Apulians this is the reason why they are similar and it blends in into the bigger picture and to what i have previously said.

[Sikeliot]

It does explain that too.

Since the Sicilian and Calabrese and the Rhodians both come from a basic Greek stock with extra Levantine input which is absent in other Greeks
and Apulians this is the reason why they are similar and it blends in into the bigger picture and to what i have previously said.


So you think that Sicilians and Rhodians are like Greeks mixed with Levantine rather than Greeks being like Sicilians mixed with Slavic.

It should also not be a coincidence that BaltoSlavic admixture is higher in Apulia than in Sicily.

[Tauromachos]

So you think that Sicilians and Rhodians are like Greeks mixed with Levantine rather than Greeks being like Sicilians mixed with Slavic.


Exactly this

[Cornaro]

Exactly this


I think so too. Sicilians have a little mixed with the Moors conqueror or levantines and Mainland Greeks have take a little from north or northeast europe so also Apulia. On the greek islands is the northeast european much less.

[Cornaro]

So you think that Sicilians and Rhodians are like Greeks mixed with Levantine rather than Greeks being like Sicilians mixed with Slavic.


Greeks are not Sicilians Greeks are Greeks with a smaller mix of North or Northeast Europe. By the way i think i remember that there was no significant greek colonization in eastern Sicily.

[Tauromachos]

Greeks are not Sicilians Greeks are Greeks with a smaller mix of North or Northeast Europe. By the way i think i remember that there was no Greek colonization in eastern Sicily at all. :picard1:

No comment!

[Cornaro]

:picard1:

No comment!

No significant colonization in ancient times in eastern sicily.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-de.svg/440px-Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-de.svg.png

[Cornaro]

But Carthaginian Colonization in ancient times and later the Moors.

http://s2.thingpic.com/images/vs/XjcErt3J6eWjUGnhR2Tb6bpa.png

[Tauromachos]

No significant colonization in ancient times in eastern sicily.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-de.svg/440px-Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-de.svg.png

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2: Are you are you serious Troll?

What do all these names like Herakleia Minoa,Naxos,Himera,Syrakuse,Lokroi,Kallipolis,Seli nunta,Poseidonia,Neopolis,Metapontion,Kroton,Herak leia,Skylletian mean?????????


Here is another map of Sicily it shows exactly what Greek people founded what Colonies in Sicily it show alos the colonies founded by Non Greek people
"Phoenicians" in the West of Sicily.
Its from a Non Greek site"Explore the Med" which gives a brief overview over Sicily and its history.
http://explorethemed.com/Images/Maps/ClassicSic936.jpg

[Cornaro]

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2: Are you are you serious Troll?

What do all these names like Herakleia Minoa,Naxos,Himera,Syrakuse,Lokroi,Kallipolis,Seli nunta,Poseidonia,Neopolis,Metapontion,Kroton,Herak leia,Skylletian mean?????????


Here is another map of Sicily it shows exactly what Greek people founded what Colonies in Sicily it show alos the colonies founded by Non Greek people
"Phoenicians" in the West of Sicily.
Its from a Non Greek site"Explore the Med" which gives a brief overview over Sicily and its history.
http://explorethemed.com/Images/Maps/ClassicSic936.jpg

Nice picture it underlines my comment correctly :coffee::lol: Phoenician or Carthaginian Colonization in east and North east Sicily (there were is today Palermo) and greek Colonization in north, south and west sicily

[Tauromachos]

But Carthaginian Colonization in ancient times and later the Moors.

http://s2.thingpic.com/images/vs/XjcErt3J6eWjUGnhR2Tb6bpa.png

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::pica rd2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2:

Look at my previous post "post 12" and the map i have posted

[Tauromachos]

:coffee::lol: Phoenician or Carthaginian Colonization in east and North east Sicily (there were is today Palermo) and greek Colonization in north, south and west sicily

Yeah East...:lol: :lol: :lol:


What are you?

An Albanian living in Germany?


Nice picture it underlines my comment correctly

It doesn't do anything like that :lol:

[kleenex]

Not sure that the admixture in Greek Islanders is Levantine. Certainly Italy had Arabic influence but not sure that is the case with Aegean Islanders. Greek mainlanders may have received slight Slavic input (6th c on) but I think that overall the mainland indigenous population is linked to other non-slavic Balkan populations by older (ancient) input which has nothing to do with Slavs or Levantines.

[Cornaro]

:picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::pica rd2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2::picard2:

Look at my previous post "post 12" and the map i have posted

Yes your card is almost the same that my card is. What is you problem? i say "Phoenician or Carthaginian Colonization in east and North east Sicily (there were is today Palermo) and greek Colonization in north, south and west sicily"


That is Correct there are NOT greek colonization there were i say.

[Tauromachos]

Not sure that the admixture in Greek Islanders is Levantine. Certainly Italy had Arabic influence but not sure that is the case with Aegean Islanders. Greek mainlanders may have received slight Slavic input (6th c on) but I think that overall the mainland indigenous population is linked to other non-slavic Balkan populations by older (ancient) input which has nothing to do with Slavs or Levantines.

Its linked to other Greek populations first of all

[Tauromachos]

Yes your card is almost the same that my card is. What is you problem? i say "Phoenician or Carthaginian Colonization in east and North east Sicily (there were is today Palermo) and greek Colonization in north, south and west sicily"


That is Correct there are NOT greek colonization there were i say.

Show me any colonies in East Sicily that are Phoenician in my card.

Name explicitly that colonies that are Phoenician

Otherwise shut up


Hint"It says in the legend of that map what each colony is"

[kleenex]

Its linked to other Greek populations first of all

First and foremost.

[Cornaro]

Show me any colonies in East Sicily that are Phoenician in my card.

Name explicitly that colonies that are Phoenician

Otherwise shut up


Hint"It says in the legend of that map what each colony is"

Hey man are you an idiot?? you can not read your own card??


Here is one example that is in your Card also under "phoenician influence" .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motya


Motya

The foundation of the city probably dates from the eighth century BC, about a century after the foundation of Carthage in Tunisia. It was originally a colony of the Phoenicians

WTF is wrong with you?

[Sikeliot]

Phoenician and Carthaginian settlement was in the west and center of the island, not the east. Just wanted to clarify this. The Phoenicians settled along the northwest coast, but then when the island was taken over by the Carthaginians, they expanded westward and inland. But not to the east coast.

[Tauromachos]

Hey man are you an idiot?? you can not read your own card??


Here is one example that is in your Card also under "phoenician influence" .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motya


WTF is wrong with you?

You are an Idiot or you have a problem with orientation...

Are you lefthanded or what?

[catgeorge]

You are an Idiot or you have a problem with orientation...

Are you lefthanded or what?

Why are you getting so triggered he is right.

Sicily has Phoenecian influence as well - it was our greatest competitor

[Tauromachos]

Why are you getting so triggered he is right.

Sicily has Phoenecian influence as well - it was our greatest competitor

I don't care if there is some Phoenician in Sicily.

I already explained my point of view on Sicily and Greeks in the first posts in this thread.

If you realy care read them all and read also what this Troll posted before and why i said it was Nonesense.

It was not about the Phoenician influence but about what he claimed and how he described it which is total nonensense

[catgeorge]

I don't care if there is some Phoenician in Sicily.

I already explained my point of view on Sicily and Greeks in the first posts in this thread.

If you realy care read them all and read also what this Troll posted before and why i said it was Nonesense.

It was not about the Phoenician influence but about what he claimed and how he described it which is total nonensense

Nope - you are overly sensitive. He was supplying his thoughts not trolling as far as I can tell he is right - Sicily has Phoenecian influence it's not all Greek

https://mapcollection.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/greek-phoenician-colonies.jpg

[Tauromachos]

Nope - you are overly sensitive. He was supplying his thoughts not trolling as far as I can tell he is right - Sicily has Phoenecian influence it's not all Greek



You don't understand you didn't read his posts and what he claimed
Simply read them

[DarknessWin]

The slavic influence came in whole of Greece included islands and Crete

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-M458.png

I can see why Cypriots are closer to sicilians from MENA influence but i cant see the same for Greek islands:

https://i.imgur.com/KW2nX3B.png

So both (slavic+mena) are wrong
The only connection between south italy and greek islands are the colonization of South Italy from them

https://i.imgur.com/515C4wL.jpg

[brennus dux gallorum]

Mainland received more Slavic influence than most of the islands, meanwhile the islands received some levantine influence common in many parts of coastal south and central mainland too

Arvanites do not count, as 90% of the inhabitants of the country have not even contacted them. They represent the 3% of the population, but they live in homogeneous places

[brennus dux gallorum]

The slavic influence came in whole of Greece included islands and Crete

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-M458.png

I can see why Cypriots are closer to sicilians from MENA influence but i cant see the same for Greek islands:

https://i.imgur.com/KW2nX3B.png

So both (slavic+mena) are wrong
The only connection between south italy and greek islands are the colonization of South Italy from them

https://i.imgur.com/515C4wL.jpg

Many islands have neither recorded Slavic invasions nor Slavic toponyms, but even the islands which have, have less toponyms and recorded invasions than average mainland. Crete for example had Slavic colonies, but dodecanese and some north Aegean didn't.

Add to this that from this aspect mainland is also not homogenous, as from region to region Slavic impact is different

[Teucer]

I agree with most of what you are saying (sensible people). What I can't pin down though is the heightened 'MENA' influence in the Dodecanese. I can't think of any historical event that would have seen Levantine migration to those islands.

Are we sure the 'MENA' in Greek islands aren't Anatolian rather than Levantine?

Maybe what ties Sicilians, Islands and Cypriots together is their higher Caucuses ancestry in comparison to mainlanders?

[brennus dux gallorum]

I agree with most of what you are saying (sensible people). What I can't pin down though is the heightened 'MENA' influence in the Dodecanese. I can't think of any historical event that would have seen Levantine migration to those islands.

Are we sure the 'MENA' in Greek islands aren't Anatolian rather than Levantine?

Maybe what ties Sicilians, Islands and Cypriots together is their higher Caucuses ancestry in comparison to mainlanders?

before syaing anything, let's make clear that at least 3 Cretan results that i recall, have central Greece closer than South Italy/Sicily. And you have to consider that most of Cyclades and other islands are even closer to the mainland

but yes, higher caucasus ancestry is important in all of these cases

[Teucer]

before syaing anything, let's make clear that at least 3 Cretan results that i recall, have central Greece closer than South Italy/Sicily. And you have to consider that most of Cyclades and other islands are even closer to the mainland

but yes, higher caucasus ancestry is important in all of these cases

Yes, of course. I meant only the Dodecanese.

[Sikeliot]

Mainland received more Slavic influence than most of the islands, meanwhile the islands received some levantine influence common in many parts of coastal south and central mainland too



No, the mainland has no Levantine influence, you only are saying this so as to keep the mainland and islands close but genetically the gap exists and it is not small.

Cyclades and some North Aegean islands are somewhat closer to the mainland but I am referring to the Dodecanese.

[Tauromachos]

Are we sure the 'MENA' in Greek islands aren't Anatolian rather than Levantine?

Maybe what ties Sicilians, Islands and Cypriots together is their higher Caucuses ancestry in comparison to mainlanders?

This is what i think actualy in particular as for Cypriots and Dodecanese and the parts of Calabria that are on par with them.

[Lavrentis]

Sikeliot always says that the MENA in Crete is Levantine, however it is Armenian. As I have said, exotic Cretans look like they're from Caucasus area, not Levant (brachycephaly is common among exotic Cretans, while most Cretans are dolicocecphalic). The Byzantines brought Armenians here to settle deserted places after kicking out the Arabs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brennus dux gallorum]

No, the mainland has no Levantine influence, you only are saying this so as to keep the mainland and islands close but genetically the gap exists and it is not small.

Cyclades and some North Aegean islands are somewhat closer to the mainland but I am referring to the Dodecanese.

Mainland has obviously no levantine admixture, except for the fact that neolithic dna represents the biggest part of its dna

And of course I keep mainland and the islands close, as they both belong to the Greek genetic continuum

There will always be particular regions or islands filling this gap, so that it doesn't exist. For example, there is no gap between central Greece and Crete, as it is filled by cyclades and North Aegean

[Cornaro]

I don't care if there is some Phoenician in Sicily.

I already explained my point of view on Sicily and Greeks in the first posts in this thread.

If you realy care read them all and read also what this Troll posted before and why i said it was Nonesense.

It was not about the Phoenician influence but about what he claimed and how he described it which is total nonensense

yes I have confused east with west.. my english is not so good. I meant west and north-west Sicily was back then Phoenician influence and South , North and East Sicily was Greek influence. You could have just pointed me to the mistake and not me all the time insult.

[Mingle]

That explains Apulia. They are basically Greeks in Italy.

Are you sure? What if it's ancient common Southern European DNA? After all, Albanians (the other people in SE Europe with the least Slavic influence) are also genetically Southern European (they get Tuscans and Greeks in their matches).

[Tauromachos]

yes I have confused east with west.. my english is not so good. I meant west and north-west Sicily was back then Phoenician influence and South , North and East Sicily was Greek influence. You could have just pointed me to the mistake and not me all the time insult.

Yes i apologize.
I just misunderstood you because some parts of your posts at the beginning seemed wierd and contradictory to me, i thought you wanted to troll me or ridicule what i have said.
But now when looked at it again it seems actualy the opposite

Sorry!

[Alessio]

Perhaps because the Greek colonizers that came to southern Italy were the same (genetically alike) people these Greek islanders are made of, i.e. derrived from the same populations, thus having the same genetic ancestors. This seems most likely, instead of postulating these weird theories about the possible combinations of several ancestries that together would magically make up these striking genetic similarities. Perhaps the estimated amount of Greeks coming to ancient southern Italy and Sicily has been heavily underestimated. They managed to densely populate all these islands stretching to Cyprus and not to mention western Anatolia, so why not southern Italy? It's part of their legacy is it not?
Also the earlier inhabitants of the south were similar to Greeks, so these populations together would give similar results.

[JQP4545]

Why do you ask questions with obvious answers?

[brennus dux gallorum]

So far what Sikeliot claims as Cretan overlap with Sicilians, is Palermo scoring closer to 10 different populations than to Crete, and crete closer to two Greek samples and 1 jewish before East sicily (let alone west Sicily)

Anyway, cretan population is European (Greek) with some more prehistoric mena admixture, sicilians on contrary are a population intermediate to Europe and near east, neither more European nor more near eastern

[Alessio]

So far what Sikeliot claims as Cretan overlap with Sicilians, is Palermo scoring closer to 10 different populations than to Crete, and crete closer to two Greek samples and 1 jewish before East sicily (let alone west Sicily)

Anyway, cretan population is European (Greek) with some more prehistoric mena admixture, sicilians on contrary are a population intermediate to Europe and near east, neither more European nor more near eastern

I can not see why the fixation with Sicilians. Within Sicily there is variation with Palermitans being very similar to coastal Campanians and others closer to Calabrians from the Sicilian speaking area's. Still they're all very close compared to the rest of Italy, with some regional and local variation here and there. I think Sicilians are being overly exoticized over other regions in the Mezzogiorno even while there is significant variation within Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

I can not see why the fixation with Sicilians. Within Sicily there is variation with Palermitans being very similar to coastal Campanians and others closer to Calabrians from the Sicilian speaking area's. Still they're all very close compared to the rest of Italy, with some regional and local variation here and there. I think Sicilians are being overly exoticized over other regions in the Mezzogiorno even while there is significant variation within Sicily.


The real difference in Sicily is the southeast (which is closer genetically to Apulia) and Trapani (which is an outlier all around).

[Sasuke]

Greeks and Italians are only Indo-European in language, but genetically they're a mixture of Mongols+Semites.

[Alessio]

The real difference in Sicily is the southeast (which is closer genetically to Apulia) and Trapani (which is an outlier all around).

So it seems yes.

[Alessio]

Greeks and Italians are only Indo-European in language, but genetically they're a mixture of Mongols+Semites.

Anything better than being a Pygmy like you.

[Sasuke]

Anything better than being a Pygmie like you.

I can't be a Pygmy for two reasons:

1. I'm 1.73m.
2. I'm not even predominantly African but predominantly European with either 1/4 or 1/8 of African blood (I'm still not sure if I'm a quadroon or an octoroon, but I know I'm not even 1/2, let alone being a Pygmy). But even if I were a Pygmy I'd have no problem with that because I'm not a racist, unlike you.

[Alessio]

I can't be a Pygmy for two reasons:

1. I'm 1.73m.
2. I'm not even predominantly African but predominantly European with either 1/4 or 1/8 of African blood (I'm still not sure if I'm a quadroon or an octoroon, but I know I'm not even 1/2, let alone being a Pygmy). But even if I were a Pygmy I'd have no problem with that because I'm not a racist, unlike you.
Calling us a mixture of Mongols and Semites, is considered racist my friend. I therefore declare you being a mixture of Bonobo apes, (less than 1/2) and humans.

[catgeorge]

The Greeks in Australia majority are islanders (~60%) - Lesvos, Ikaria, Kerkyra, Cyclades etc. and they have not much in common with Italians here.


Suburb of Australia where Greek islanders live
https://theworldlovesmelbourne.com/images/Restaurants15/VanillaUpstairs/VanillaLounge-4.jpg

Suburb of Australia where North Greeks live
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4b/51/3f/4b513ff2c19cef4ae04156d0f73ad0f6.jpg


...and we all love this

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/f271b85e3b3b86e1a51397dd115cb867?width=650

[GiCa]

Honestly south Italians don t look to me like Greeks.

And Apulians too don t look like greeks

[GiCa]

Those Greeks above expecially women in first pic really look more like Albanians than italians

They really look Albanian.

[catgeorge]

Those Greeks above expecially women in first pic really look more like Albanians than italians

They really look Albanian.

Albanian females do overlap with our girls.... males are different story though.

[GiCa]

Albanian females do overlap with our girls.... males are different story though.

I Don t know.. It s just that those women really look albanian.

[catgeorge]

I Don t know.. It s just that those women really look albanian.

Maybe only problem here is there are no Albanians in Australia - so they are definitely Greek.

Personally speaking to me, they look very Greek.

[GiCa]

Maybe only problem here is there are no Albanians in Australia - so they are definitely Greek.

Personally speaking to me, they look very Greek.

To my eyes, as I m very used to see Albanians they really look similar to albanians

[catgeorge]

More photos where Greek islanders live in Australia

https://media1.agfg.com.au/images/listing/39994/gallery//vanilla-lounge-oakleigh-restaurants-1.jpg

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/21984532_477775452601333_973526557513482240_n.jpg

https://i1.wp.com/theplusones.com/melbourne//wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/05/2-Owners-Arther-and-Helen-Spanos.jpg?resize=960%2C638&ssl=1

https://foodfromhomeblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/dsc03012.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Honestly south Italians don t look to me like Greeks.

And Apulians too don t look like greeks


Apulians do look like Greeks to me. But I think Sicilians/Calabrese have a Near Eastern influence.

[GiCa]

Apulians do look like Greeks to me. But I think Sicilians/Calabrese have a Near Eastern influence.

They Don t look like greeks.

I ve been in both places.

Genetic is really mysterious.

Apulians don t look like greeks

[brennus dux gallorum]

To my eyes, as I m very used to see Albanians they really look similar to albanians

Then you have to fix your eyes, because apart from having more Albanian immigrants than you do and see nothing in common with them, the same goes for anthropologists who estimated Greeks as 70% Mediterranean and albanians as 75% dinaric, not only two completely different things, but actually there are more people in Italy who could pass in Albania than Greeks who could pass in Albania