Why do people deny South Italy and Aegean islands are close phenotypically/genetically to West Asia?

[Sikeliot]

I honestly do not see how this can continue to be denied. It should be considered scientific anthropological fact.

As far as the phenotypes go, do you really expect these people to look more French, German, British or even Spanish than like Lebanese, Cypriots, or Armenians? It is entirely counterintuitive and defies common sense. It does not even make sense to believe they will look exactly like all other Italians and all other Greeks, either.

And in my opinion, people are simply denying the truth.

1. Peer reviewed genetic studies have demonstrated elevated Near Eastern input in the two areas when compared to mainland Greece, Albania, etc.

Sarno et al 2017:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4

"Our results reveal a shared Mediterranean genetic continuity, extending from Sicily to Cyprus, where Southern Italian populations appear genetically closer to Greek-speaking islands than to continental Greece. Besides a predominant Neolithic background, we identify traces of Post-Neolithic Levantine- and Caucasus-related ancestries, compatible with maritime Bronze-Age migrations."

http://i64.tinypic.com/2nk1lj6.jpg


Lazaridis et al 2013:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259441354_Ancient_human_genomes_suggest_three_ance stral_populations_for_present-day_Europeans

""While our three-way mixture model fits the data for most European populations, two sets of populations are poor fits. First, Sicilians, Maltese, and Ashkenazi Jews have EEF estimates beyond the 0-100% interval (SI13) and they cannot be jointly fit with other Europeans in the (SI12). These populations may have more Near Eastern ancestry than can be explained via EEF admixture (SI13), an inference that is also suggested by the fact that they fall in the gap between European and Near Eastern populations in the PCA of Fig. 1B.""

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3803/33016272762_2f3e139a15_b.jpg


Paschou et al:
http://www.pnas.org/content/111/25/9211.abstract

According to this study, Sicilians from Syracuse bridge the gap between southern Peloponnesians and Crete, and all of these are noted to have additional ancestry from the Near East. It is a continuum from Dodecanese to Crete/Sicily/Laconia and then onto mainland Greeks and Italians.

"The resulting networks clearly indicate a path from the Near East populations (Palestinian, Druze) to Anatolia (Cappadocia), and from there to the islands of Dodecanese, and Crete. The connections between Crete and the rest of Greece (South East-Laconia → Peloponnese → Macedonia) as well as the populations of Sicily and Italy are evident. Analyses were performed by using the top three to seven PCs and results were robust regardless of the number of principal components used. The geographic proximity and partial overlap in the PCA of Crete and Sicily is also compatible with gene flow from Crete to Italy and to Southern Europe through population movements along the Southern Mediterranean coast."

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ai3tcg.jpg


2. PCA plots demonstrate that these regions are closer to West Asians than to Western, Northeastern, Central Europeans, and equidistant to Iberians.

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/377578ejhg2015233x8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png
https://s15.postimg.org/t41sxxr8r/Jy7_Ih_A94_Grhdfk_BBji_PIhvp_Su_SD3l_Ge_Jnyv-3so4c4w_w118.png
https://i.imgur.com/1Yi89bu.png



3. GEDmatch makes it very clear who they are closer to.

This is my cousin from Palermo:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.08
2 West_Med 17.11
3 West_Asian 14.11
4 Atlantic 13.41
5 North_Sea 11.12
6 Red_Sea 7.27
7 Baltic 2.83
8 Northeast_African 1.33
9 Eastern_Euro 0.95
10 Sub-Saharan 0.73
11 Oceanian 0.59
12 Southeast_Asian 0.3
13 Siberian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.4
2 East_Sicilian 4.53
3 Italian_Jewish 4.84
4 Central_Greek 5.96
5 Sephardic_Jewish 6.52
6 Italian_Abruzzo 6.76
7 West_Sicilian 6.78
8 Ashkenazi 6.88
9 Algerian_Jewish 7.45
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.49
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.58
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.83
13 Tuscan 11.85
14 Greek 12.11
15 Cyprian 13.66
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.58
17 Syrian 17.22
18 North_Italian 18.37
19 Turkish 18.87
20 Bulgarian 19.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 36.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.14
2 59.8% Italian_Jewish + 40.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.26
3 54.5% Lebanese_Christian + 45.5% Portuguese @ 2.5
4 64.3% Tuscan + 35.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.66
5 52.5% East_Sicilian + 47.5% Italian_Jewish @ 2.72
6 53.3% North_Italian + 46.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.74
7 65.7% Cyprian + 34.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.79
8 56.1% Lebanese_Christian + 43.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.83
9 65% Cyprian + 35% Portuguese @ 2.86
10 57.2% Italian_Jewish + 42.8% Central_Greek @ 2.86
11 89.2% Italian_Jewish + 10.8% West_German @ 2.87
12 55.2% Lebanese_Christian + 44.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.87
13 91.2% Italian_Jewish + 8.8% Orcadian @ 2.88
14 91.1% Italian_Jewish + 8.9% North_Dutch @ 2.93
15 90.6% Italian_Jewish + 9.4% North_German @ 2.95
16 90.6% Italian_Jewish + 9.4% Southwest_English @ 2.95
17 55.9% Lebanese_Christian + 44.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.97
18 91.7% Italian_Jewish + 8.3% West_Norwegian @ 2.98
19 91.2% Italian_Jewish + 8.8% Irish @ 2.99
20 89.5% Italian_Jewish + 10.5% South_Dutch @ 2.99


This is someone from three towns in Reggio Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.35
2 West_Med 19.34
3 West_Asian 15.69
4 Atlantic 13.22
5 Red_Sea 10.9
6 North_Sea 4.61
7 Baltic 3.18
8 Eastern_Euro 1.54
9 Northeast_African 0.73
10 Oceanian 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 4.98
2 Italian_Jewish 6.26
3 South_Italian 6.78
4 Algerian_Jewish 6.94
5 East_Sicilian 7.53
6 Central_Greek 8.81
7 Tunisian_Jewish 8.87
8 Ashkenazi 9.29
9 West_Sicilian 10.04
10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.59
11 Cyprian 11.26
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.01
13 Greek 14.05
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.98
15 Syrian 15.25
16 Greek_Thessaly 15.25
17 Tuscan 15.33
18 Samaritan 16.96
19 Turkish 18.36
20 Jordanian 18.48

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.6% Sardinian @ 4.2
2 72.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 27.7% East_Sicilian @ 4.39
3 77% Sephardic_Jewish + 23% Central_Greek @ 4.42
4 70.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 29.8% South_Italian @ 4.48
5 94.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.1% Balkar @ 4.56
6 74.3% Cyprian + 25.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.57
7 75.7% Cyprian + 24.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.58
8 95.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.8% Ossetian @ 4.59
9 95.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.6% North_Ossetian @ 4.59
10 95.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.9% Kabardin @ 4.61
11 95.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.5% Chechen @ 4.62
12 75.4% Cyprian + 24.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.62
13 95.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.8% Adygei @ 4.62
14 95.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.2% Abhkasian @ 4.63
15 95.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.6% Georgian @ 4.64
16 72.8% Cyprian + 27.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.64
17 89.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.65
18 86.2% South_Italian + 13.8% Saudi @ 4.66
19 72.8% Cyprian + 27.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.67
20 89.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.5% Tuscan @ 4.67


And most results are similar to this.

This is someone from Kalymnos in the Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.14
2 West_Asian 18.61
3 West_Med 14.7
4 Atlantic 13.86
5 North_Sea 6.35
6 Baltic 5.6
7 Red_Sea 4.37
8 Eastern_Euro 1.93
9 South_Asian 1.76
10 Northeast_African 0.61
11 Siberian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.41
2 Central_Greek 6.93
3 East_Sicilian 7.39
4 Sephardic_Jewish 7.72
5 Italian_Jewish 8.58
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.96
7 Ashkenazi 9.16
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.78
9 West_Sicilian 10.16
10 Cyprian 10.73
11 Tunisian_Jewish 11.02
12 Greek 11.86
13 Lebanese_Muslim 13.54
14 Greek_Thessaly 13.75
15 Turkish 14.24
16 Libyan_Jewish 14.32
17 Syrian 15.45
18 Tuscan 15.63
19 Assyrian 18.08
20 Samaritan 18.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.9% South_Italian + 18.1% Kurdish @ 2.73
2 80.6% South_Italian + 19.4% Azeri @ 3.06
3 83.6% South_Italian + 16.4% Iranian @ 3.08
4 80.1% South_Italian + 19.9% Assyrian @ 3.11
5 64.8% West_Sicilian + 35.2% Assyrian @ 3.13
6 81.7% South_Italian + 18.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.17
7 81.5% South_Italian + 18.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.17
8 76.2% South_Italian + 23.8% Turkish @ 3.26
9 82.5% South_Italian + 17.5% Armenian @ 3.39
10 82.6% South_Italian + 17.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.51
11 67.2% West_Sicilian + 32.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.53
12 67.7% West_Sicilian + 32.3% Armenian @ 3.64
13 55.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 44.8% Cyprian @ 3.64
14 76.9% South_Italian + 23.1% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.75
15 70.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.7% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.82
16 67.2% West_Sicilian + 32.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.92
17 77.2% Central_Greek + 22.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.99
18 55.9% Tuscan + 44.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.02
19 70.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.06
20 84.2% South_Italian + 15.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.07

[Hadouken]

you think a poulation distance of 13-18 is "close" ?

[Sikeliot]

you think a poulation distance of 13-18 is "close" ?

Yes, considering they are 'European' people yet are much, MUCH further to other Europeans than 13-18%.

[JMack]

you think a poulation distance of 13-18 is "close" ?

Of course. He have an agenda and wants to be be buttfucked by Lebanese.
This is clearly a case of a stupid faggot/homosexual/jew trying to elevate his personal obsessions to fact.

Clementina/Portuguese Princess/Tranny should kill herself.

[Sikeliot]

Of course. He have an agenda and wants to be be buttfucked by Lebanese.
This is clearly a case of a stupid faggot/homosexual/jew trying to elevate his personal obsessions to fact.

Clementina/Portuguese Princess/Tranny should kill herself.

I have tolerated your attacks against me for so long, but this is crossing the line. Your opinions aside being different from mine is one thing, but telling me I should kill myself is grounds to be banned.

Let's see some evidence to the contrary of my points above rather than attacks.

[Hadouken]

Of course. He have an agenda and wants to be be buttfucked by Lebanese.
This is clearly a case of a stupid faggot/homosexual/jew trying to elevate his personal obsessions to fact.

Clementina/Portuguese Princess/Tranny should kill herself.

no he should not kill himself . dont say such things (serious)

[Antimage]

:bored:

[Sikeliot]

no he should not kill himself . dont say such things (serious)

Oh no, he can continue to say it, but if he does he will be banned. This is crossing the line.

I'd ike to see actual EVIDENCE refuting what I have said rather than people's attacks and emotional responses.

[JMack]

...

I have no will to stay in this Jewish controlled forum anyway.

[Sikeliot]

I have no will to stay in this Jewish controlled forum anyway.

Then leave.

[Hadouken]

Oh no, he can continue to say it, but if he does he will be banned. This is crossing the line.

dont let it get to you mate . these topics are not important anyway

and when I "criticize" you I dont mean it in a hostile way . just to let you know ;)

but you do have an agenda I have to be honest with you . but maybe you just dont realize it

[Sikeliot]

dont let it get to you mate . these topics are not important anyway

and when I "criticize" you I dont mean it in a hostile way . just to let you know ;)

but you do have an agenda I have to be honest with you . but maybe you just dont realize it

How is it an agenda when it is backed up by empirical evidence, studies, and facts? Why is it not accepted as fact? How much more evidence is needed before people will stop denying it?

[Hadouken]

How is it an agenda when it is backed up by empirical evidence, studies, and facts? Why is it not accepted as fact? How much more evidence is needed before people will stop denying it?

what exactly is a "fact" though . they have a west asian shift yes . more so than other europans yes . some of them look/fit west asian yes

but you make it seem as if they are a bunch of misplaced armenians/lebanese dancing the boogie in da club and eat spaghetti from mama afterwards

[Cristiano viejo]

Only Italians deny it, not "people" as if that meant "everybody".

[Sikeliot]

what exactly is a "fact" though . they have a west asian shift yes . more so than other europans yes . some of them look/fit west asian yes

but you make it seem as if they are a bunch of misplaced armenians/lebanese dancing the boogie in da club and eat spaghetti from mama afterwards

Obviously they are culturally European. Greece and Italy are definitely in Europe, culturally similar to their European neighbors and so on. But from a GENETIC point of view, how can we say the Aegean islands or southern Italy are European when they are closer to many West Asian groups than to other Europeans?

Here is another Sicilian on Eurasia K9 ASI. Their top 20 consists of, other than Sicily, 6 European groups and the rest West Asians.

# Population Percent
1 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 29.9
2 SW_Asian 21.73
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 21.22
4 WHG 18.7
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 5.18
6 W_African 3.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.99
2 Maltese 5.17
3 Greek 9.04
4 Albanian 11.36
5 Tuscan 11.95
6 Cypriot 13.19
7 Turkish 13.86
8 Bulgarian 17.24
9 Lebanese 17.45
10 Druze 18.84
11 Syrian 19.24
12 Jordanian 19.65
13 Armenian 19.93
14 Kumyk 19.93
15 Adygei 20.24
16 Georgian_Jew 21.36
17 Azeri 21.74
18 Spanish 22.21
19 Iraqi_Jew 22.23
20 Chechen 22.26

[Myanthropologies]

Of course. He have an agenda and wants to be be buttfucked by Lebanese.
This is clearly a case of a stupid faggot/homosexual/jew trying to elevate his personal obsessions to fact.

Clementina/Portuguese Princess/Tranny should kill herself.

Seriously dude? I usually think highly of you, but telling someone to kill themselves is a pretty low thing to do. TheApricity has actually had a member committ suicide before, so that is a very sensitive issue here, especially to the members that have been here since that incident occurred and knew the member.

Sikeliot does have a point. Sicilians are closer to Greeks, Albanians, Tuscany, etc than to any West Asian, but like Ashkenazi Jews, they are in between North Italians and Levantines, and one can argue if they are European by genetics or not if they wanted to.

I see this all as arbitrary anyways.

[Hadouken]

Obviously they are culturally European. Greece and Italy are definitely in Europe, culturally similar to their European neighbors and so on. But from a GENETIC point of view, how can we say the Aegean islands or southern Italy are European when they are closer to many West Asian groups than to other Europeans?

Here is another Sicilian on Eurasia K9 ASI. Their top 20 consists of, other than Sicily, 6 European groups and the rest West Asians.

# Population Percent
1 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 29.9
2 SW_Asian 21.73
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 21.22
4 WHG 18.7
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 5.18
6 W_African 3.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.99
2 Maltese 5.17
3 Greek 9.04
4 Albanian 11.36
5 Tuscan 11.95
6 Cypriot 13.19
7 Turkish 13.86
8 Bulgarian 17.24
9 Lebanese 17.45
10 Druze 18.84
11 Syrian 19.24
12 Jordanian 19.65
13 Armenian 19.93
14 Kumyk 19.93
15 Adygei 20.24
16 Georgian_Jew 21.36
17 Azeri 21.74
18 Spanish 22.21
19 Iraqi_Jew 22.23
20 Chechen 22.26

yes I see your point but the first 5 populations are european still . you always act/argue as if the whole list is west asian :D

[Babak]

Obviously they are culturally European. Greece and Italy are definitely in Europe, culturally similar to their European neighbors and so on. But from a GENETIC point of view, how can we say the Aegean islands or southern Italy are European when they are closer to many West Asian groups than to other Europeans?

Here is another Sicilian on Eurasia K9 ASI. Their top 20 consists of, other than Sicily, 6 European groups and the rest West Asians.

# Population Percent
1 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 29.9
2 SW_Asian 21.73
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 21.22
4 WHG 18.7
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 5.18
6 W_African 3.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.99
2 Maltese 5.17
3 Greek 9.04
4 Albanian 11.36
5 Tuscan 11.95
6 Cypriot 13.19
7 Turkish 13.86
8 Bulgarian 17.24
9 Lebanese 17.45
10 Druze 18.84
11 Syrian 19.24
12 Jordanian 19.65
13 Armenian 19.93
14 Kumyk 19.93
15 Adygei 20.24
16 Georgian_Jew 21.36
17 Azeri 21.74
18 Spanish 22.21
19 Iraqi_Jew 22.23
20 Chechen 22.26

They're closer to euro groups before west asian groups bro.

[Sikeliot]

yes I see your point but the first 5 populations are european still . you always act/argue as if the whole list is west asian :D

They are only close to people in their nation and the southernmost Balkan populations. I don't see this as being proof of them being very close to 90% of Europe.

[Teucer]

The only way is to compare all the populations to the dna of their ancient counter parts. That way we will know if they have recently changed or have more or less stayed the same.

Unfortunately I don't think there is much research released on ancient dna.

[wvwvw]

Of course. He have an agenda and wants to be be buttfucked by Lebanese.

:lol: I laughed hard at this

[Tauromachos]

Obviously they are culturally European. Greece and Italy are definitely in Europe, culturally similar to their European neighbors and so on. But from a GENETIC point of view, how can we say the Aegean islands or southern Italy are European when they are closer to many West Asian groups than to other Europeans?

Here is another Sicilian on Eurasia K9 ASI. Their top 20 consists of, other than Sicily, 6 European groups and the rest West Asians.

# Population Percent
1 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 29.9
2 SW_Asian 21.73
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 21.22
4 WHG 18.7
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 5.18
6 W_African 3.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.99
2 Maltese 5.17
3 Greek 9.04
4 Albanian 11.36
5 Tuscan 11.95
6 Cypriot 13.19
7 Turkish 13.86
8 Bulgarian 17.24
9 Lebanese 17.45
10 Druze 18.84
11 Syrian 19.24
12 Jordanian 19.65
13 Armenian 19.93
14 Kumyk 19.93
15 Adygei 20.24
16 Georgian_Jew 21.36
17 Azeri 21.74
18 Spanish 22.21
19 Iraqi_Jew 22.23
20 Chechen 22.26

What Aegean Islands exactly?
All?

You are a real asshole for exotifyng the Aegean Islands so much from the rest of Greece.


Aegean Islands grouped together as whole have even less Mena than Crete.

[Lavrentis]

0,5/4 (my personal estimations) of Crete, parts of Eastern Crete in particular, were settled by Armenians because these areas were deserted after the Arabs were kicked out. There was even a Pontian village in Eastern Crete, Trapezounta I think (the name is taken from the big big Black Sea city of Trapezounta in Pontus).

When half a quarter of an island gets settled by West Asians, you are going to have a genetic drift.

There is even an Armenian toponym in Western Crete. I actually think there's more. These villages usually have names such as Armenoi, Armeniakos etc.

Other Greek islands were settled by West Asian people during Byzantine rule I guess.

Another example- in Rhodes, there are some 2 (I think) villages that speak with a Cypriot dialect, different to the rest of the island. Where did these people came from?

Still, that's some affinity to West Asian populations due to some particular reasons. Most of the people are still Southern European genetically.

That's about Greece. The story about Italy is something that I don't know.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sikeliot]

What Aegean Islands exactly?
All?

You are a real asshole for exotifyng the Aegean Islands so much from the rest of Greece.


Aegean Islands grouped together as whole have even less Mena than Crete.


Dodecanese mostly. Cyclades and North Aegean less so but still more than the mainland. Crete varies.

[Tauromachos]

0,5/4 (my personal estimations) of Crete, parts of Eastern Crete, were settled by Armenians because these areas were deserted after the Arabs were kicked out. There was even a Pontian village in Eastern Crete, Trapezounta I think (the name is taken from the big big Black Sea city of Trapezounta in Pontus).

When half a quarter of an island gets settled by West Asians, you are going to have a genetic drift.

There is even an Armenian toponym in Western Crete. I actually think there's more. These villages usually have names such as Armenoi, Armeniakos etc.

Other Greek islands were settled by West Asian people during Byzantine rule I guess.

Another example- in Rhodes, there are some 2 (I think) villages that speak with a Cypriot dialect, different to the rest of the island. Where did these people came from?

Still, that's some affinity to West Asian populations due to some particular reasons. Most of the people are still Southern European genetically.

That's about Greece. The story about Italy is something that I don't know.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The thing is this Idiot always wants to drive the Aegean Islands away from Greece when it is not true and not confirmed by science.
Thats the real problem not if Greeks have some West Asian or not.

Aegean Islands are Greek and will always be

End!

[wvwvw]

0,5/4 (my personal estimations) of Crete, parts of Eastern Crete, were settled by Armenians because these areas were deserted after the Arabs were kicked out. There was even a Pontian village in Eastern Crete, Trapezounta I think (the name is taken from the big big Black Sea city of Trapezounta in Pontus).

When half a quarter of an island gets settled by West Asians, you are going to have a genetic drift.

There is even an Armenian toponym in Western Crete. I actually think there's more. These villages usually have names such as Armenoi, Armeniakos etc.

Other Greek islands were settled by West Asian people during Byzantine rule I guess.

Another example- in Rhodes, there are some 2 (I think) villages that speak with a Cypriot dialect, different to the rest of the island. Where did these people came from?

Still, that's some affinity to West Asian populations due to some particular reasons. Most of the people are still Southern European genetically.

That's about Greece. The story about Italy is something that I don't know.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Crete was never settled by Armenians, that's something you made up. If there's any Pontian village here and there it doesn't make it Armenian.

[Tauromachos]

Dodecanese mostly. Cyclades and North Aegean less so but still more than the mainland. Crete varies.

And more than Mainland doesn't mean that they are so different.

The only real outliers in that sense are possibly Dodecanese and Cyprus.

[Sikeliot]

Again, "they are South European genetically" or "you have an agenda" but where is your proof? Prove me wrong. No one has done so, they can't.

[Lavrentis]

Crete was never settled by Armenians, that's something you made up. If there's any Pontian village here and there it doesn't make it Armenian.

Crete was settled by Armenians to an extent. I can give you many sources, but start with this: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/armenians-heraklion-crete-greece-kevork-halladjian


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[Myanthropologies]

I think this topic is sensitive because ethnicity isn't solely defined by genetics alone. As an anthropology major, I can tell you that ethnicity and kinship comes from a multitude of things. Language, tradition, religion. Why do you think we have Greeks from pontus, Cyprus, etc who still all identify as Greek? Afghan Tajiks still identify as Persian even though their origins are Eastern Iranian like the Pashtuns. Thus, Sicilians are truly ethnically European, because of their geography, language, culture, and food. I don't think sicilians deny their mixed heritage, nor are they ashamed of it. Southern Italians love tanning and don't care about being darker. And the ones I've talked to always say what makes them unique is that they are a blend of many different people. They don't deny their past and history, they love their past and history. I'd even go as far as saying most sicilians I've met definitely do feel close to other mediterranean people, be it European mediterranean or not, than to Germans, Irish, Swedes, and so on. However, they still identify as Europeans because they share a lot with Greeks, Albanians, Spaniards, etc.

[Babak]

I think this topic is sensitive because ethnicity isn't solely defined by genetics alone. As an anthropology major, I can tell you that ethnicity and kinship comes from a multitude of things. Language, tradition, religion. Why do you think we have Greeks from pontus, Cyprus, etc who still all identify as Greek? Afghan Tajiks still identify as Persian even though their origins are Eastern Iranian like the Pashtuns. Thus, Sicilians are truly ethnically European, because of their geography, language, culture, and food. I don't think sicilians deny their mixed heritage, nor are they ashamed of it. Southern Italians love tanning and don't care about being darker. And the ones I've talked to always say what makes them unique is that they are a blend of many different people. They don't deny their past and history, they love their past and history. I'd even go as far as saying most sicilians I've met definitely do feel close to other mediterranean people, be it European mediterranean or not, than to Germans, Irish, Swedes, and so on. However, they still identify as Europeans because they share a lot with Greeks, Albanians, Spaniards, etc.


Lol

[Sikeliot]

I think this topic is sensitive because ethnicity isn't solely defined by genetics alone. As an anthropology major, I can tell you that ethnicity and kinship comes from a multitude of things. Language, tradition, religion. Why do you think we have Greeks from pontus, Cyprus, etc who still all identify as Greek? Afghan Tajiks still identify as Persian even though their origins are Eastern Iranian like the Pashtuns. Thus, Sicilians are truly ethnically European, because their geography, language, culture, and food. I don't think sicilians deny their mixed heritage, nor are they ashamed of it. Southern Italians love tanning and don't care about being darker. And the ones I've talked to always say what makes them unique is that they are a blend of many different people. They don't deny their past and history, they love their past and history. I'd even go as far as saying most sicilians I've met definitely do feel close to other mediterranean people, be it European mediterranean or not, than to Germans, Irish, Swedes, and so on. However, they still identify as Europeans because they share a lot with Greeks, Albanians, Spaniards, etc.

I agree with this. Italians and Greeks are European. In real life I would think it was strange if anyone denied this and I would correct them. Yet, from the perspective of genetics, which is never discussed in person like on these forums, it is different.

A close parallel to me would be Dominicans being culturally "Hispanic" but that doesn't change they are largely African by DNA. Their identity may not be African but their roots are.

[Teucer]

But has this shift to West-Asia popped up recently or has it been there since ancient times? That is the fundamental question.

[Lavrentis]

But has this shift to West-Asia popped up recently or has it been there since ancient times? That is the fundamental question.

In Greece it's 'recent', from the Middle Ages imo.


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[JMack]

Again, "they are South European genetically" or "you have an agenda" but where is your proof? Prove me wrong. No one has done so, they can't.

Well, if the 5 first populations in their cluster are Southern European they are Southern European, not West Asian. If you were saying they are closer to West Asians than to Norwegians no one would chimp out.

But you are saying they are close to West Asians than to anyone else. It's false and show your agenda. Look at the title of your thread. You do have an agenda.
You even manipulate words using the term ''South Italy'' to refer only to Sicily and Calabria when the region also include Apulia, Molise, Abruzzo and Basilicata. Your tactic is to divide these populations and use the most outlier ones to prove they aren't what people think they are. You act as if Cretans and other islanders aren't Greeks to do the same thing.

South Italy is a place with a lot of internal variations but for some reasons you always include only the outliers as standard.

Now that I debunked your first claim I will go to the second:

In which peer-review study the specialists are saying they are close phenotypically to West Asians?

I would like to see, but there's none. It's all your individual impressions based on some recent and few studied aspects of genetics.

[Myanthropologies]

I agree with this. Italians and Greeks are European. In real life I would think it was strange if anyone denied this and I would correct them. Yet, from the perspective of genetics, which is never discussed in person like on these forums, it is different.

A close parallel to me would be Dominicans being culturally "Hispanic" but that doesn't change they are largely African by DNA. Their identity may not be African but their roots are.

Every southern italian I know acknowledges they may very well have ancestry that isn't European.

[Teucer]

In Greece it's 'recent', from the Middle Ages imo.


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I think it may be even earlier than that.

After the splitting of Alexander's empire, Greece became open to all of West Asia and Egypt for the first time. It may very well go as far back as 200 BC

[Lavrentis]

I think it may be even earlier than that.

After the splitting of Alexander's empire, Greece became open to all of West Asia and Egypt for the first time. It may very well go as far back as 200 BC

But are there sources of West Asian migrations to ancient Greece? Because we have sources that West Asian people were settled to some parts of Greece at some point during the Middle Ages, for example Armenians in Crete


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[Sikeliot]

Well, if the 5 first populations in their cluster are Southern European they are Southern European, not West Asian. If you were saying they are closer to West Asians than to Norwegians no one would chimp out.

They are southeastern European. They are closer to a host of West Asian populations than to Iberians, Sardinians, or French (southwest Europeans) so if we want to get technical they are close to southeast Europeans first, then West Asians, then southwest Europeans, then everyone else.


But you are saying they are close to West Asians than to anyone else. It's false and show your agenda. Look at the title of your thread. You do have an agenda.

I didn't say they are closer to them than to everyone else. I explicitly stated they are closer to West Asians EXCEPT to other Italians and Greeks, Albanians, and Bulgarians. Though some outlying ones are indeed closer to Levantines than to northern Greeks. You are misquoting me to make people respond negatively to my post based on a misunderstanding.


You even manipulate words using the term ''South Italy'' to refer only to Sicily and Calabria when the region also include Apulia, Molise, Abruzzo and Basilicata. Your tactic is to divide these populations and use the most outlier ones to prove they aren't what people think they are. You act as if Cretans and other islanders aren't Greeks to do the same thing.

There is variation. Sicily, Calabria, and Campania have more of a Near Eastern shift, while Apulia, Molise, Abruzzo and Lucania have a smaller one. I have said this multiple times. How are you not understanding me?


South Italy is a place with a lot of internal variations but for some reasons you always include only the outliers as standard.

You are the one denying this. You mocked me for saying Palermo and Syracuse differ, but they do.


Now that I debunked your first claim I will go to the second:

You didn't. You argued semantics and misquoted me.


In which peer-review study the specialists are saying they are close phenotypically to West Asians?

I would like to see, but there's none. It's all your individual impressions based on some recent and few studied aspects of genetics.

None, because no studies produced today have quantified phenotypical trends. But why would you expect people genetically closer to Levantines than to French or even Spaniards, to look much more like the latter?

[Tauromachos]

http://www.newsrescue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/saudi-bush-presstv.jpg

[Sikeliot]

I think it may be even earlier than that.

After the splitting of Alexander's empire, Greece became open to all of West Asia and Egypt for the first time. It may very well go as far back as 200 BC


The extra West Asian only exists on the islands though, except for the Pontians on the mainland.

[Teucer]

But are there sources of West Asian migrations to ancient Greece? Because we have sources that West Asian people were settled to some parts of Greece at some point during the Middle Ages, for example Armenians in Crete


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No, but it stands to reason. The amount of trade that would have happened during that period, let alone the pax Romana later on, would have encouraged migrations from all over Southern Europe and West Asia, and in both directions.

[wvwvw]

But are there sources of West Asian migrations to ancient Greece? Because we have sources that West Asian people were settled to some parts of Greece at some point during the Middle Ages, for example Armenians in Crete
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You stupidly keep bringing up the toponym Armeni in Crete, but that is only a toponym. Its inhabitants are not Armenians nor have armenian ancestry. Do you have any idea how many Greek toponyms exist as far as America. That doesn't make these places Greek.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4118/4817272945_14e701e8d1_b.jpg
The Armeni Village, Crete

[wvwvw]

Well, if the 5 first populations in their cluster are Southern European they are Southern European, not West Asian. If you were saying they are closer to West Asians than to Norwegians no one would chimp out.

But you are saying they are close to West Asians than to anyone else. It's false and show your agenda. Look at the title of your thread. You do have an agenda.
You even manipulate words using the term ''South Italy'' to refer only to Sicily and Calabria when the region also include Apulia, Molise, Abruzzo and Basilicata. Your tactic is to divide these populations and use the most outlier ones to prove they aren't what people think they are. You act as if Cretans and other islanders aren't Greeks to do the same thing.

South Italy is a place with a lot of internal variations but for some reasons you always include only the outliers as standard.

Now that I debunked your first claim I will go to the second:

In which peer-review study the specialists are saying they are close phenotypically to West Asians?

I would like to see, but there's none. It's all your individual impressions based on some recent and few studied aspects of genetics.

Sikeliot will never give up unless S.Italy and the Greek islands adopt the lebanese dialect of Arabic :D

[Lavrentis]

Sikeliot loves comparing other southern Europeans to Sardinians, but to me, it doesn't make sense because Sardinians are an isolated population since the Neolithic period.

But are Sardinians phenotypically distinguishable from other Italians? I think not.

And I'm pretty sure that most south Italians are genetically closer to Greece than to MENA regions.



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[Tauromachos]

No, but it stands to reason. The amount of trade that would have happened during that period, let alone the pax Romana later on, would have encouraged migrations from all over Southern Europe and West Asia, and in both directions.

And what do you think?

How much Hellenic influence got West Asia at that time?

Shoudln't we allowed to ask this question also?

[JMack]

They are southeastern European. They are closer to a host of West Asian populations than to Iberians, Sardinians, or French (southwest Europeans) so if we want to get technical they are close to southeast Europeans first, then West Asians, then southwest Europeans, then everyone else.

I didn't say they are closer to them than to everyone else. I explicitly stated they are closer to West Asians EXCEPT to other Italians and Greeks, Albanians, and Bulgarians. Though some outlying ones are indeed closer to Levantines than to northern Greeks. You are misquoting me to make people respond negatively to my post based on a misunderstanding.

There is variation. Sicily, Calabria, and Campania have more of a Near Eastern shift, while Apulia, Molise, Abruzzo and Lucania have a smaller one. I have said this multiple times. How are you not understanding me?

You are the one denying this. You mocked me for saying Palermo and Syracuse differ, but they do.

You didn't. You argued semantics and misquoted me.

None, because no studies produced today have quantified phenotypical trends. But why would you expect people genetically closer to Levantines than to French or even Spaniards, to look much more like the latter?

1- Agreed.

2- No, I'm not misquoting you. This is your claim:

''As far as the phenotypes go, do you really expect these people to look more French, German, British or even Spanish than like Lebanese, Cypriots, or Armenians? It is entirely counterintuitive and defies common sense. It does not even make sense to believe they will look exactly like all other Italians and all other Greeks, either. ''

You are implying people in Abruzzo or Apulia will look more similar to Lebanese than to other Italians and Greeks. If they are different even from Greeks and Italians, to whom they will look closer? It's a question of deductive logic. You're trying to imply they look West Asian (it's a false statament anyway). Even Cretans look closer to mainland Greeks than to Lebanese, any photo set can prove it. Calabrese and Sicilians still look mostly mainstream Southern European, with a minority of outlier phenotypes.

3- You didn't said this in the thread. You are implying all regions of Southern Italy are like outlier regions from Sicily. That's what you want people to believe.

4- I'm talking about genetics, not phenotypes.

5- I did. Your trolling is exposed.

6- Agreed.

[Sikeliot]

Sikeliot loves comparing other southern Europeans to Sardinians, but to me, it doesn't make sense because Sardinians are an isolated population since the Neolithic period.

But are Sardinians phenotypically distinguishable from other Italians? I think not.

And I'm pretty sure that most south Italians are genetically closer to Greece than to MENA regions.


I think Sardinians can pass everywhere in South Europe since their DNA is foundational to southern Europeans (all of them), but other southern Europeans have other components and admixture events, too.

[Sikeliot]

2- No, I'm not misquoting you. This is your claim:

''As far as the phenotypes go, do you really expect these people to look more French, German, British or even Spanish than like Lebanese, Cypriots, or Armenians? It is entirely counterintuitive and defies common sense. It does not even make sense to believe they will look exactly like all other Italians and all other Greeks, either. ''

You are implying people in Abruzzo or Apulia will look more similar to Lebanese than to other Italians and Greeks. If they are different even from Greeks and Italians, to whom they will look closer? It's a question of deductive logic. You're trying to imply they look West Asian (it's a false statament anyway). Even Cretans look closer to mainland Greeks than to Lebanese, any photo set can prove it. Calabrese and Sicilians still look mostly mainstream Southern European, with a minority of outlier phenotypes.

I definitely think Apulia and Abruzzo look LESS West Asian influenced than Sicilians and Calabrese and are indeed closer to the Italian and Greek norm, but I think more of them fit in West Asia than in Germany, the UK, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, etc. I also do not think they look Spanish either.

Cretans are closer to mainland Greeks than to Lebanese, but they have more West Asian input than mainland Greeks. Now if you asked me if Cretans look more Russian, Polish, Swedish, etc. or Lebanese, obviously Lebanese.


3- You didn't said this in the thread. You are implying all regions of Southern Italy are like outlier regions from Sicily. That's what you want people to believe.


No, I do not believe this nor do I want others to do the same. Why do you think this?

[Tauromachos]

yes I see your point but the first 5 populations are european still . you always act/argue as if the whole list is west asian :D

Exactly this^

[wvwvw]

No, but it stands to reason. The amount of trade that would have happened during that period, let alone the pax Romana later on, would have encouraged migrations from all over Southern Europe and West Asia, and in both directions.

There were Greek immigrations from antiquity, but all those immigrations, throughout history, have been between Greeks from Greek regions. Foreigners never settled or have ever been invited to settle in Greece. Even Pontians would not accept any migrations outside their regions. When Romans tried to settle some colonists in Pontos there was an uproar and they were massacred.

[Mingle]

Cretans are closer to mainland Greeks than to Lebanese, but they have more West Asian input than mainland Greeks. Now if you asked me if Cretans look more Russian, Polish, Swedish, etc. or Lebanese, obviously Lebanese.

Are Cretans closer to Cypriots or to Mainland Greeks?

[JMack]

I definitely think Apulia and Abruzzo look LESS West Asian influenced than Sicilians and Calabrese and are indeed closer to the Italian and Greek norm, but I think more of them fit in West Asia than in Germany, the UK, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, etc. I also do not think they look Spanish either.

Cretans are closer to mainland Greeks than to Lebanese, but they have more West Asian input than mainland Greeks. Now if you asked me if Cretans look more Russian, Polish, Swedish, etc. or Lebanese, obviously Lebanese.

No, I do not believe this nor do I want others to do the same. Why do you think this?

I don't think someone would disagree that Cretans look more similar to Lebanese than to Poles, it's obvious. But they still look closer to other Southern European populations than to Lebanese as a whole. The only reason these parts of Greece and South Italy overlap genetically with Lebanese is due to shared mediterranean ancestry, not because they are especially close. Even your sources attest this.


No, I do not believe this nor do I want others to do the same. Why do you think this?

Because you always use the term South Italy in an indiscriminated form without saying this.

[Tauromachos]

Are Cretans closer to Cypriots or to Mainland Greeks?

Halfway in between

[wvwvw]

I definitely think Apulia and Abruzzo look LESS West Asian influenced than Sicilians and Calabrese and are indeed closer to the Italian and Greek norm, but I think more of them fit in West Asia than in Germany, the UK, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, etc. I also do not think they look Spanish either.

Cretans are closer to mainland Greeks than to Lebanese, but they have more West Asian input than mainland Greeks. Now if you asked me if Cretans look more Russian, Polish, Swedish, etc. or Lebanese, obviously Lebanese.



No, I do not believe this nor do I want others to do the same. Why do you think this?

There was no contact between the Europeans of the Mediterranean coast and Germanics or Slavs for millenia. Their first contact with Germanics was in 200BC and with Slavs in 600BC.

[Sikeliot]

Are Cretans closer to Cypriots or to Mainland Greeks?

Mainland Greeks but only slightly. Dodecanese are slightly closer to Cypriots. Both groups are similar to Sicilians and Calabrese more than to either mainland Greeks or Cypriots.

[Lavrentis]

Halfway in between

We don't know about that. From what I see on GEDmatch, Cretans usually get other Greeks (not Cypriots) and south Italians as their top 5 matches.


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[Mingle]

Mainland Greeks but only slightly. Dodecanese are slightly closer to Cypriots. Both groups are similar to Sicilians and Calabrese more than to either mainland Greeks or Cypriots.


Halfway in between

I'm guessing they'd be halfway between Cypriots and Peloponnesians but closer to Cypriots than to Thessalians?

[Voskos]

Are Cretans closer to Cypriots or to Mainland Greeks?

equidistant to both,maybe slightly closer to the mainland due to some slavic admixture.

[Tauromachos]

We don't know about that. From what I see on GEDmatch, Cretans usually get other Greeks (not Cypriots) and south Italians as their top 5 matches.


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Well in this case i think its what Sikeliot said

They are slightly closer to Mainland Greeks

But Crete is the bridge between Mainland Greece and Cyprus

[Tauromachos]

equidistant to both,maybe slightly closer to the mainland due to some slavic admixture.

I don't think they need Slavic to be slightly closer to Mainland Greece

[Voskos]

sure but slavic does pull them even closer than they already are. cypriots are probably very close to southern asia minor Greeks.

[Sikeliot]

Well in this case i think its what Sikeliot said

They are slightly closer to Mainland Greeks

But Crete is the bridge between Mainland Greece and Cyprus


This is how it usually works from most "European" to most "West Asian"

North Greece > South Greece > Cyclades > Abruzzo/Apulia/Lucania/some Sicilians > North Aegean > Crete/most of Sicily/Campania > Dodecanese/Calabria/exotic parts of Sicily > Cyprus

[Sikeliot]

I don't think they need Slavic to be slightly closer to Mainland Greece


Parts of Crete do have additional northern admixture but I am unsure when it got there. Some Cretans end up close to Laconians and away from the main Crete/Sicily cluster.

[Tauromachos]

Parts of Crete do have additional northern admixture but I am unsure when it got there. Some Cretans end up close to Laconians and away from the main Crete/Sicily cluster.

And Laconians are so far away from this cluster?

[Lavrentis]

Parts of Crete do have additional northern admixture but I am unsure when it got there.

With proto Indo-Europeans/Dorians.


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[wvwvw]

I think it may be even earlier than that.

After the splitting of Alexander's empire, Greece became open to all of West Asia and Egypt for the first time. It may very well go as far back as 200 BC

Greece was never colonised by anyone. And the Greek Ethnicity and national consciousness existed long before the time of Alexander, in the form of Hellenic Alliances and Unions.

[Sikeliot]

And Laconians are so far away from this cluster?

Laconians are intermediate between that cluster and the rest of the mainland.

[Tauromachos]

Laconians are intermediate between that cluster and the rest of the mainland.

Ok once and for all no matter which of these Greek and Italian groups is the most Northern let us make
one thing clear.

Even Mainland Greece still shifts South from Bulgaria and Albania?

Yes or No?

[Teucer]

And what do you think?

How much Hellenic influence got West Asia at that time?

Shoudln't we allowed to ask this question also?

There has to be some. It is incredibly naive to think people never moved around.

[Sikeliot]

Ok once and for all no matter which of these Greek and Italian groups is the most Northern let us make
one thing clear.

Even Mainland Greece still shifts South from Bulgaria and Albania?

Yes or No?

Bulgaria, yes. Albania, some regions of Greece shift north of them. See "GRE_N" (North Greece).

https://i.imgur.com/FznoCTu.png

[wvwvw]

With proto Indo-Europeans/Dorians.

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In about 1380 BC, Tectemus the son of Dorus settled in Crete with a colony of Aeolians and Pelasgians.

Which is why Homer wrote in Odyssey:


"There is a fair and fruitful island in mid-ocean called Crete; it is thickly peopled and there are nine cities in it: the people speak many different languages which overlap one another, for there are Achaeans, brave Eteocretans, Dorians of three-fold race, and noble Pelasgi."

Note also how he says that they spoke Greek related dialects and that the language of Eteocretans overlapped with the languages of the Achaeans, Dorians and Pelasgains. The only way this could be possible is if the Eteocretan language was descended from proto-Greek and most likely to be have been a dialect of proto-Aeolic or proto-Mycenaean.

P.S Can your remove your Iphone signature, it is very annoying.

[Lavrentis]

In about 1380 BC, Tectemus the son of Dorus settled in Crete with a colony of Aeolians and Pelasgians.

Which is why Homer wrote in Odyssey:

""There is a fair and fruitful island in mid-ocean called Crete; it is thickly peopled and there are nine cities in it: the people speak many different languages which overlap one another, for there are Achaeans, brave Eteocretans, Dorians of three-fold race, and noble Pelasgi."

Note also how he says that they spoke Greek related dialects and that the language of Eteocretans overlapped with the languages of the Achaeans, Dorians and Pelasgains. The only way this could be possible is if the Eteocretans were indo-Europeans and their language was descended from proto-Greek and most likely to be have been a dialect of proto-Aeolic or proto-Mycenaean.

P.S Can your remove your Iphone signature, it is very annoying.

When the proto Indo-Europeans went somewhere, they imposed their language on the majority. This happened in most of Europe, not only Greece.

Greeks are predominantly descended from the pre Indo-European people of Greece anyway.


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[Tauromachos]

Bulgaria, yes. Albania, some regions of Greece shift north of them. See "GRE_N" (North Greece).

https://i.imgur.com/FznoCTu.png

So when even some Northern Greek regions shift North from Albania then Albania also shifts clearly South from all other
Balkan counties?

Yes or No?

[Sikeliot]

So when even some Northern Greek regions shift North from Albania then Albania also shifts clearly South from all other
Balkan counties?

Yes or No?

Northern Greeks are north of Albanians due to the Slavic ancestry. The other Greek regions appear close to Albania with a tiny but of Afroasiatic. The islanders are closer to the Sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

So when even some Northern Greek regions shift North from Albania then Albania also shifts clearly South from all other
Balkan counties?

Yes or No?

Northern Greeks are north of Albanians due to the Slavic ancestry. The other Greek regions appear close to Albania with a tiny but of Afroasiatic. The islanders are closer to the Sicilians.

[wvwvw]

When the proto Indo-Europeans went somewhere, they imposed their language on the majority. This happened in most of Europe, not only Greece.

Greeks are predominantly descended from the pre Indo-European people of Greece anyway.


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That's nonsense. The Greek language evolved in Greece from Neolithic Greeks.

If there was an Indo-European language it was spread through trade and through writing.PIE evolved mostly from Minoan Greek because Greek was the dominant civilizationa at the time. Greek was a written language before all other European languages. There was no proto-Indo-European tribe. Language spread from Greece to the rest of Europe and India through trade whereby the inventors of new technology and the breeders of new farm animals gave them names which everyone else they traded with used and these trades invented the common number system. Everything else came from Greek poetry and philosophy and from the Greek bible which as has already been shown was transliterated almost word for word into Gothic and the corrupted orally through the process of consonantal shift.

The European language evolved among people from the J2 DNA lineage and who combined with members of the Ev13 DNA linage. The root language was Greco-Hittite or proto-Anatolian. This stands to reason since these were the people who brought Agriculture to Europe and hence the only source for the Agriculture terminology which would have made up over 70% of the original language.

The only other main European linage and most predominant is R1 and since this is the linage of 99% of Basques this would mean that this linage would have originally spoken Basque which is not an Indo-European language. The Spaniards up to Roman times did not speak an IE language.

Thus only the J2 and Ev13 linages could have been responsible for the common European language since these were the linages of the Minoans Greeks, the Hittites and the Indo Iranians.

Greek, Hittite, Persian and Sanskrit which are the oldest known Indo-Europeans languages ALL have ther root in J2 and Ev13 populations. The younger language such as Italo-Celtic, Germanic and Slavic are all derivatives of this J2/Ev13 root language.

Italo-Celtic evolved from Greek in about 2500 BC and Germanic evolved in about 1500 BC from Mycenean Greek. The Skythian conquest of the Balkans is what force the Myceaneans into souther Greece.

Slavic is a derivative of Germanic which evolved in around 200 AD -600 AD when the Slavs and Germanics made contact in the Ukraine and in the Balkans.

The PIE theory is just wishfull thinking. In reality FOUR common European languages began simultaneously among 4 separate tribal groups. The Greco-Phoenican-Hittite-Indo-Iranians where by far the greatest contributors to the language over 70%. The Iberian-Italo-Celts contributed almost nothing and lost their original language Basque altogether. The Germanics contributed 20% of the language and the Slavs about 10%. This analysis is based on the differences and similarities between Ancient Greek and Modern Greek which was influenced by the Germanic and Slavic invasions of the Balkans.

[Tauromachos]

The other Greek regions appear close to Albania with a tiny but of Afroasiatic. The islanders are closer to the Sicilians.

Thats wrong they are not closer to Albanians than to Greek Islanders.

But thats not what i want to discuss.
My point is when Albanians shift South from all other Balkan countries then Albanians themselfes are hardly average proper Balkan but
rather intermediate between Balkan and Greece,Crete/Sicily?

Yes or No?

[Smitty]

It's a question of borders, to my view. Just because a border European population is more similar to a border Middle Eastern population than to a European population on the opposite side of the continent doesn't mean that border is incorrectly drawn - even genetically. The European and Mideastern clusters match history and culture very well.

[Sikeliot]

Thats wrong they are not closer to Albanians than to Greek Islanders.

But thats not what i want to discuss.
My point is when Albanians shift South from all other Balkan countries then Albanians themselfes are hardly average proper Balkan but
rather intermediate between Balkan and Greece,Crete/Sicily?

Yes or No?

Yes, they are. If you look at the bar chart, the mainlanders are all closer to Albanians than to the Sicilians or Cretans there.

And yes, mainland Greeks and Albanians are in between South Slavs and Sicilians/Cretans.

[Cristiano viejo]

P.S Can your remove your Iphone signature, it is very annoying.
Thumb up for you.

[Tauromachos]

Yes, they are. If you look at the bar chart, the mainlanders are all closer to Albanians than to the Sicilians or Cretans there.
.

Stop grouping Albanians and Mainland Greeks before Non Mainland together asshole lier.

And its settled no matter what you think Albanians themselfes aren't even realy proper Balkan.

[Sikeliot]

Stop grouping Albanians and Mainland Greeks before Non Mainland together asshole lier.

And its settled no matter what you think Albanians themselfes aren't even realy proper Balkan.

LOOK AT THE CHART and tell me which one the mainland Greeks are closer to. I am not saying it, the study is. And I can show you in the study where it explicitly says Albanians and mainland Greeks are closer, while the islanders and southern Italians are closer. Don't attack me. If you dislike the result of the study email the person who wrote it.

[Tauromachos]

LOOK AT THE CHART and tell me which one the mainland Greeks are closer to. I am not saying it, the study is. And I can show you in the study where it explicitly says Albanians and mainland Greeks are closer, while the islanders and southern Italians are closer. Don't attack me. If you dislike the result of the study email the person who wrote it.

No i don't look at your charts.

Even in your calculators which are frauds i have seen Mainland Greeks results that get Sicilian things before anything Albanian.

I will give you the adress of Triandafilidis at some point and you can straight post at him and explain to him that
Greek Islanders are more different from Mainlanders than Albanians are from Mainlanders.
Because thats what you claim.

You are an asshole and a racist against Greek people you have often been acting hostile towards Greeks much more than against any other group.

[Wrong]

Stop grouping Albanians and Mainland Greeks before Non Mainland together asshole lier.

And its settled no matter what you think Albanians themselfes aren't even realy proper Balkan.
Many mainland Greeks tend to plot closer to Albanians than they do to islander Greeks. It's no rocket science, but logic.

[Dorian]

These fetishes are beyond paranoic,I can't find a word to describe this ,every day the same old bs,let'ts but this into this box,this into that,what the fuck is this autism maybe?I don't know and I don't mean to insult anyone.I haven't even read the posts and I don't care about what is being said but this is just paranoia,repeating and repeating the same things,let these fucking scientists do their thing.

[Tauromachos]

Mainland Greeks tend to plot closer to Albanians than they do to islander Greeks. It's no rocket science, but logic.

Nope its not only here on TA

Mainland Greece is not Albania
Greek Islands is not Turkey deal with it!

[Wrong]

Nope its not only here on TA

Mainland Greece is not Albania
Greek Islands is not Turkey deal with it!
Where did I say this? Don't act immature.

[Teucer]

There were Greek immigrations from antiquity, but all those immigrations, throughout history, have been between Greeks from Greek regions. Foreigners never settled or have ever been invited to settle in Greece. Even Pontians would not accept any migrations outside their regions. When Romans tried to settle some colonists in Pontos there was an uproar and they were massacred.

Just because in certain regions colonists were killed doesn't mean that is uniform in other areas. I think this is more relevant to the Greek and Roman policies though. I can't think of any Near East civilisations that actively colonised except for the Phoenicians.

And even in terms of trade, you need to be realistic. The idea that a merchant from Syria, for example, traded in Greece somewhere during the Hellenistic period and it was impossible for him to settle down there and have a family, even with a native Greek, is ridiculous. He may have never been a citizen of a polis but he would have that middle-status I can't remember the word for.

History also tells us, especially during Roman times, of inter-marriages between Southern Europeans and West Asians. It happened. The idea of 'purity' is absolute nonsense. Greece and Rome where civilisations that crossed three continents. You don't honestly think that people just stayed where they were from, do you?

[Tauromachos]

These fetishes are beyond paranoic,I can't find a word to describe this ,every day the same old bs,let'ts but this into this box,this into that,what the fuck is this autism maybe?I don't know and I don't mean to insult anyone.I haven't even read the posts and I don't care about what is being said but this is just paranoia,repeating and repeating the same things,let these fucking scientists do their thing.

Yes and who is the main instigator behind all this?

It has to be said once and for all openly

[Sikeliot]

Many mainland Greeks tend to plot closer to Albanians than they do to islander Greeks. It's no rocket science, but logic.

He seems intent on denying it.

[Hamlet]

I honestly do not see how this can continue to be denied. It should be considered scientific anthropological fact.

As far as the phenotypes go, do you really expect these people to look more French, German, British or even Spanish than like Lebanese, Cypriots, or Armenians? It is entirely counterintuitive and defies common sense. It does not even make sense to believe they will look exactly like all other Italians and all other Greeks, either.

And in my opinion, people are simply denying the truth.

1. Peer reviewed genetic studies have demonstrated elevated Near Eastern input in the two areas when compared to mainland Greece, Albania, etc.

Sarno et al 2017:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-01802-4

"Our results reveal a shared Mediterranean genetic continuity, extending from Sicily to Cyprus, where Southern Italian populations appear genetically closer to Greek-speaking islands than to continental Greece. Besides a predominant Neolithic background, we identify traces of Post-Neolithic Levantine- and Caucasus-related ancestries, compatible with maritime Bronze-Age migrations."

http://i64.tinypic.com/2nk1lj6.jpg


Lazaridis et al 2013:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259441354_Ancient_human_genomes_suggest_three_ance stral_populations_for_present-day_Europeans

""While our three-way mixture model fits the data for most European populations, two sets of populations are poor fits. First, Sicilians, Maltese, and Ashkenazi Jews have EEF estimates beyond the 0-100% interval (SI13) and they cannot be jointly fit with other Europeans in the (SI12). These populations may have more Near Eastern ancestry than can be explained via EEF admixture (SI13), an inference that is also suggested by the fact that they fall in the gap between European and Near Eastern populations in the PCA of Fig. 1B.""

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3803/33016272762_2f3e139a15_b.jpg


Paschou et al:
http://www.pnas.org/content/111/25/9211.abstract

According to this study, Sicilians from Syracuse bridge the gap between southern Peloponnesians and Crete, and all of these are noted to have additional ancestry from the Near East. It is a continuum from Dodecanese to Crete/Sicily/Laconia and then onto mainland Greeks and Italians.

"The resulting networks clearly indicate a path from the Near East populations (Palestinian, Druze) to Anatolia (Cappadocia), and from there to the islands of Dodecanese, and Crete. The connections between Crete and the rest of Greece (South East-Laconia → Peloponnese → Macedonia) as well as the populations of Sicily and Italy are evident. Analyses were performed by using the top three to seven PCs and results were robust regardless of the number of principal components used. The geographic proximity and partial overlap in the PCA of Crete and Sicily is also compatible with gene flow from Crete to Italy and to Southern Europe through population movements along the Southern Mediterranean coast."

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2ai3tcg.jpg


2. PCA plots demonstrate that these regions are closer to West Asians than to Western, Northeastern, Central Europeans, and equidistant to Iberians.

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/377578ejhg2015233x8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5jbkEdu.png
https://s15.postimg.org/t41sxxr8r/Jy7_Ih_A94_Grhdfk_BBji_PIhvp_Su_SD3l_Ge_Jnyv-3so4c4w_w118.png
https://i.imgur.com/1Yi89bu.png



3. GEDmatch makes it very clear who they are closer to.

This is my cousin from Palermo:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.08
2 West_Med 17.11
3 West_Asian 14.11
4 Atlantic 13.41
5 North_Sea 11.12
6 Red_Sea 7.27
7 Baltic 2.83
8 Northeast_African 1.33
9 Eastern_Euro 0.95
10 Sub-Saharan 0.73
11 Oceanian 0.59
12 Southeast_Asian 0.3
13 Siberian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.4
2 East_Sicilian 4.53
3 Italian_Jewish 4.84
4 Central_Greek 5.96
5 Sephardic_Jewish 6.52
6 Italian_Abruzzo 6.76
7 West_Sicilian 6.78
8 Ashkenazi 6.88
9 Algerian_Jewish 7.45
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.49
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.58
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.83
13 Tuscan 11.85
14 Greek 12.11
15 Cyprian 13.66
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.58
17 Syrian 17.22
18 North_Italian 18.37
19 Turkish 18.87
20 Bulgarian 19.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 36.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.14
2 59.8% Italian_Jewish + 40.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.26
3 54.5% Lebanese_Christian + 45.5% Portuguese @ 2.5
4 64.3% Tuscan + 35.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.66
5 52.5% East_Sicilian + 47.5% Italian_Jewish @ 2.72
6 53.3% North_Italian + 46.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.74
7 65.7% Cyprian + 34.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.79
8 56.1% Lebanese_Christian + 43.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.83
9 65% Cyprian + 35% Portuguese @ 2.86
10 57.2% Italian_Jewish + 42.8% Central_Greek @ 2.86
11 89.2% Italian_Jewish + 10.8% West_German @ 2.87
12 55.2% Lebanese_Christian + 44.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.87
13 91.2% Italian_Jewish + 8.8% Orcadian @ 2.88
14 91.1% Italian_Jewish + 8.9% North_Dutch @ 2.93
15 90.6% Italian_Jewish + 9.4% North_German @ 2.95
16 90.6% Italian_Jewish + 9.4% Southwest_English @ 2.95
17 55.9% Lebanese_Christian + 44.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.97
18 91.7% Italian_Jewish + 8.3% West_Norwegian @ 2.98
19 91.2% Italian_Jewish + 8.8% Irish @ 2.99
20 89.5% Italian_Jewish + 10.5% South_Dutch @ 2.99


This is someone from three towns in Reggio Calabria:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.35
2 West_Med 19.34
3 West_Asian 15.69
4 Atlantic 13.22
5 Red_Sea 10.9
6 North_Sea 4.61
7 Baltic 3.18
8 Eastern_Euro 1.54
9 Northeast_African 0.73
10 Oceanian 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jewish 4.98
2 Italian_Jewish 6.26
3 South_Italian 6.78
4 Algerian_Jewish 6.94
5 East_Sicilian 7.53
6 Central_Greek 8.81
7 Tunisian_Jewish 8.87
8 Ashkenazi 9.29
9 West_Sicilian 10.04
10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.59
11 Cyprian 11.26
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.01
13 Greek 14.05
14 Lebanese_Muslim 14.98
15 Syrian 15.25
16 Greek_Thessaly 15.25
17 Tuscan 15.33
18 Samaritan 16.96
19 Turkish 18.36
20 Jordanian 18.48

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 92.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.6% Sardinian @ 4.2
2 72.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 27.7% East_Sicilian @ 4.39
3 77% Sephardic_Jewish + 23% Central_Greek @ 4.42
4 70.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 29.8% South_Italian @ 4.48
5 94.9% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.1% Balkar @ 4.56
6 74.3% Cyprian + 25.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 4.57
7 75.7% Cyprian + 24.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.58
8 95.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.8% Ossetian @ 4.59
9 95.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.6% North_Ossetian @ 4.59
10 95.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.9% Kabardin @ 4.61
11 95.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.5% Chechen @ 4.62
12 75.4% Cyprian + 24.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.62
13 95.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.8% Adygei @ 4.62
14 95.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.2% Abhkasian @ 4.63
15 95.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.6% Georgian @ 4.64
16 72.8% Cyprian + 27.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.64
17 89.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.65
18 86.2% South_Italian + 13.8% Saudi @ 4.66
19 72.8% Cyprian + 27.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.67
20 89.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 10.5% Tuscan @ 4.67


And most results are similar to this.

This is someone from Kalymnos in the Dodecanese:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.14
2 West_Asian 18.61
3 West_Med 14.7
4 Atlantic 13.86
5 North_Sea 6.35
6 Baltic 5.6
7 Red_Sea 4.37
8 Eastern_Euro 1.93
9 South_Asian 1.76
10 Northeast_African 0.61
11 Siberian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 5.41
2 Central_Greek 6.93
3 East_Sicilian 7.39
4 Sephardic_Jewish 7.72
5 Italian_Jewish 8.58
6 Italian_Abruzzo 8.96
7 Ashkenazi 9.16
8 Algerian_Jewish 9.78
9 West_Sicilian 10.16
10 Cyprian 10.73
11 Tunisian_Jewish 11.02
12 Greek 11.86
13 Lebanese_Muslim 13.54
14 Greek_Thessaly 13.75
15 Turkish 14.24
16 Libyan_Jewish 14.32
17 Syrian 15.45
18 Tuscan 15.63
19 Assyrian 18.08
20 Samaritan 18.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.9% South_Italian + 18.1% Kurdish @ 2.73
2 80.6% South_Italian + 19.4% Azeri @ 3.06
3 83.6% South_Italian + 16.4% Iranian @ 3.08
4 80.1% South_Italian + 19.9% Assyrian @ 3.11
5 64.8% West_Sicilian + 35.2% Assyrian @ 3.13
6 81.7% South_Italian + 18.3% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.17
7 81.5% South_Italian + 18.5% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.17
8 76.2% South_Italian + 23.8% Turkish @ 3.26
9 82.5% South_Italian + 17.5% Armenian @ 3.39
10 82.6% South_Italian + 17.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 3.51
11 67.2% West_Sicilian + 32.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.53
12 67.7% West_Sicilian + 32.3% Armenian @ 3.64
13 55.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 44.8% Cyprian @ 3.64
14 76.9% South_Italian + 23.1% Lebanese_Muslim @ 3.75
15 70.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.7% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.82
16 67.2% West_Sicilian + 32.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.92
17 77.2% Central_Greek + 22.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 3.99
18 55.9% Tuscan + 44.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 4.02
19 70.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.06
20 84.2% South_Italian + 15.8% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.07

Great thread topic, take this bump

[Hamlet]

When the proto Indo-Europeans went somewhere, they imposed their language on the majority. This happened in most of Europe, not only Greece.

Greeks are predominantly descended from the pre Indo-European people of Greece anyway.


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What about Spain? And the known, fully accepted, documented Steppe migrations into the Balkans? Where there were high farmer populations, it's pretty damn hard to replace an entire population.

[Tauromachos]

He seems intent on denying it.

You have intent

You hate Greeks

[Lavrentis]

What about Spain? And the known, fully accepted, documented Steppe migrations into the Balkans? Where there were high farmer populations, it's pretty damn hard to replace an entire population.

I'm not saying that they replied an entire population, I'm saying that they linguistically assimilated the entire population.


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[Wrong]

What about Spain? And the known, fully accepted, documented Steppe migrations into the Balkans? Where there were high farmer populations, it's pretty damn hard to replace an entire population.
And steppe people also carried EEF across Europe, along with their Yamnaya/EHG-Caucas components.

[Hamlet]

In Greece it's 'recent', from the Middle Ages imo.


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Why do you think that, out of interest?

[Kelmendasi]

Stop grouping Albanians and Mainland Greeks before Non Mainland together asshole lier.

And its settled no matter what you think Albanians themselfes aren't even realy proper Balkan.
And how are Albanians not Balkan proper? Mainland Greeks do plot with some Albanians on PCA afaik

[Lavrentis]

Why do you think that, out of interest?

Because of some sources and also because the Byzantines had a tactic to settle deserted areas with people from all over the empire, mostly from West Asia.


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[Hamlet]

When the proto Indo-Europeans went somewhere, they imposed their language on the majority. This happened in most of Europe, not only Greece.

Greeks are predominantly descended from the pre Indo-European people of Greece anyway.


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I was dumb and didnt read this, ignore prev. quote of this post

[Teucer]

The relatedness of mainland Greeks to Albanians, Dodecanese to Sicilians, etc., means very little with regard to continuity if we don't know the ancestry of ancient populations.

[Tauromachos]

And how are Albanians not Balkan proper? Mainland Greeks do plot with some Albanians on PCA afaik

Albanians plot South from all other Balkanites afaik.

Albanians are in between Balkan and Greece+Italy this.

Greeks are not Balkanites in the common sense.
They never were

[Lavrentis]

The Arvanite element in Greece and possibly the Greek element in south Albania is a reason that some Greeks plot close to Albanians.


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[Tauromachos]

The Arvanite element in Greece and possibly the Greek element in south Albania is a reason that some Greeks plot close to Albanians.


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The main reason is exactly this^

[Wrong]

Albanians plot South from all other Balkanites afaik.

Albanians are in between Balkan and Greece+Italy this.

Greeks are not Balkanites in the common sense.
They never were
Most South Slavs are modeled as roughly 60% Albanian, 40% North-East Euro. That makes Albanians the proper Paleo-Balkanites by default.

Deal with it.

[wvwvw]

Just because in certain regions colonists were killed doesn't mean that is uniform in other areas. I think this is more relevant to the Greek and Roman policies though. I can't think of any Near East civilisations that actively colonised except for the Phoenicians.

And even in terms of trade, you need to be realistic. The idea that a merchant from Syria, for example, traded in Greece somewhere during the Hellenistic period and it was impossible for him to settle down there and have a family, even with a native Greek, is ridiculous. He may have never been a citizen of a polis but he would have that middle-status I can't remember the word for.

History also tells us, especially during Roman times, of inter-marriages between Southern Europeans and West Asians. It happened. The idea of 'purity' is absolute nonsense. Greece and Rome where civilisations that crossed three continents. You don't honestly think that people just stayed where they were from, do you?

What is bullshit is your ahistorical nonsense. To be Greek has always been defined as: «όμοαιμον, ομόγλωσσον, ομόθρησκον, ομότροπον» (omemon – same blood, omoglosson – same language, omotropon same ways, religion and culture")

Greeks married each other and every marriage was made to a Greek under the Rules of the Greek Religion, and customs not the religion of the foreign people who worshipped their own Gods and married within themselves.

Romans too would strictly not marry foreigners. And to be be allowed to serve in any Greek army you had to have a legitimate son who was at least 10 years old. Therefore all Greek soldiers were married to Greek women. If they were going to live in Syria or Egypt permanently then they were naturally going to bring their wives and children along with them.

[Hamlet]

What is bullshit is your ahistorical nonsense. To be Greek has always been defined as: «όμοαιμον, ομόγλωσσον, ομόθρησκον, ομότροπον» (omemon – same blood, omoglosson – same language, omotropon same ways, religion and culture")

Greeks married each other and every marriage was made to a Greek under the Rules of the Greek Religion, and customs not the religion of the foreign people who worshipped their own Gods and married within themselves.

Romans too would strictly not marry foreigners. And to be be allowed to serve in any Greek army you had to have a legitimate son who was at least 10 years old. Therefore all Greek soldiers were married to Greek women. If they were going to live in Syria or Egypt permanently then they were naturally going to bring their wives and children along with them.

You're delusional, retarded, or both.

[Mingle]

What is bullshit is your ahistorical nonsense. To be Greek has always been defined as: «όμοαιμον, ομόγλωσσον, ομόθρησκον, ομότροπον» (omemon – same blood, omoglosson – same language, omotropon same ways, religion and culture")

Greeks married each other and every marriage was made to a Greek under the Rules of the Greek Religion, and customs not the religion of the foreign people who worshipped their own Gods and married within themselves.

Romans too would strictly not marry foreigners. And to be be allowed to serve in any Greek army you had to have a legitimate son who was at least 10 years old. Therefore all Greek soldiers were married to Greek women. If they were going to live in Syria or Egypt permanently then they were naturally going to bring their wives and children along with them.

Then how do you explain the fact that Pontic Greeks are genetically closer to Georgians, Armenians, and Anatolian Turks than they are to Greeks from Greece?

[Wrong]

Just because in certain regions colonists were killed doesn't mean that is uniform in other areas. I think this is more relevant to the Greek and Roman policies though. I can't think of any Near East civilisations that actively colonised except for the Phoenicians.

And even in terms of trade, you need to be realistic. The idea that a merchant from Syria, for example, traded in Greece somewhere during the Hellenistic period and it was impossible for him to settle down there and have a family, even with a native Greek, is ridiculous. He may have never been a citizen of a polis but he would have that middle-status I can't remember the word for.

History also tells us, especially during Roman times, of inter-marriages between Southern Europeans and West Asians. It happened. The idea of 'purity' is absolute nonsense. Greece and Rome where civilisations that crossed three continents. You don't honestly think that people just stayed where they were from, do you?
This is the most logical post on topic.

[Longobarda]

let's post some very MENA sicilians (probably never entered in the collection of Sicily DNA to be examined). Sikeliot where do they would plot? In Damasco? In Baghdad? Or in Cartago?

Myriam Leone (actress)

http://www.giornalettismo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/miriam-leone-quanti-anni-ha.jpg

Stefania Prestigiacomo (politician, ex minister)

http://siciliainformazioni.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/stefania-prestigiacomo.jpg

Sergio Mattarella (President of the Italian Republic)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Presidente_Sergio_Mattarella.jpg

Eva Riccobono (model)

https://isaac.guidasicilia.it/foto/news/personaggi/eva_riccobono_N.jpg

Armando Avellino (participant to a TV reality show)

https://static.fanpage.it/gossipfanpage/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ARMANDO-AVELLINO-638x425.jpg

Mario (?) (participant to a TV reality show)

http://worldofbigbrother.com/BB/Ita/12/hms/Mario1.jpg

Valentina Palmeri (politician)

http://www.sicilia5stelle.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/valentina-palmeri-e1351673340440.jpg

Primo Lillo Firetto (mayor of Agrigento)

http://www.comune.agrigento.it/images/stories/foto_sindaco/il%20sindaco%20calogero%20firetto.jpg

Giusy Buscemi (Miss Italy 2012)

http://www.woonko.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/giusy-buscemi-miss-italia-2012-9.jpg

Giulia Arena (Miss Italy 2014)

http://www.siciliainrosa.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/giulia_arena_ph_saggese3.jpg

unknown girl in an historical manifestation

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-92p4cPklMXE/WSiqX699nsI/AAAAAAABoRE/K0Tc5VszZ8QlUijiK_PPBUqIC3aDMEXfwCLcB/s1600/30568523.jpg

Ornella Laneri (CEO on behalf of SAC, Catania airport)

https://albaretna.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/wp-1469452376863.jpeg

Nino Grisalfi (actor)

http://static-www.agrigentooggi.it/wp-content/2017/04/listener-1-30.jpg

[wvwvw]

Then how do you explain the fact that Pontic Greeks are genetically closer to Georgians, Armenians, and Anatolian Turks than they are to Greeks from Greece?

Because Pontians were not affected by the Steppe like ancestry that came to Greece. Just like the Cypriots, Pontians contributed to the Greek genome (J2 and Ev13 linages) but the R1 Steppe like ancestry did not affect them.

R1 affected also a bit the Greek language while the languages of Anatolia remained unaffected by these 'invasion', which is why the Greco-Hittite or Greco-Anatolian root language that was spoken throughout Balkans, Greece and Anatolia, split.

Ancient Greeks were of at least three linages, which had arrived to Greece 30-50,000 ago (J2s and Ursula mtdna) Ev13 (and its female linage J) which arrived some 10,000 years ago and the Steppe like linage which arrived to Greece some 5,000 years ago.

[Tauromachos]

Here is one from Sikeliot's own threads muuhahahahaah :rotfl:
http://www.affaritaliani.it/static/upl/lor/loredana-jolie.jpg

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?88866-Classify-hot-blonde-Sicilian-woman-and-where-she-fits





(https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?88866-Classify-hot-blonde-Sicilian-woman-and-where-she-fits)

[Longobarda]

You're delusional, retarded, or both.

why? You as a jew should know that jews do the same: they marry between themselves and a jew has the right to be so only if his MOTHER is jew

[Lavrentis]

Because Pontians were not affected by the Steppe like ancestry that came to Greece. Just like the Cypriots, Pontians contributed to the Greek genome (J2 and Ev13 linages) but the R1 Steppe like ancestry did not affect them.

R1 affected also a bit the Greek language while the languages of Anatolia remained unaffected by these invasions, which is why the Greco-Hittite or Greco-Anatolian root language that was spoken throughout Balkans, Greece and Anatolia, split.

Ancient Greeks were of at least three linages, which had arrived to Greece 30-50,000 ago (J2s and Ursula mtdna) Ev13 (and its female linage J) which arrived some 10,000 years ago and the Steppe like linage which arrived to Greece some 5,000 years ago.

Your theories aren't supported by anyone. Pontians and Cypriots are Hellenized populations, whether you like or not. The Greek identity was created back when the Indo-Europeans arrived to Greece and assimilated the local majority. Neither Pontians nor Cypriots were Greek back then.

Before you start this "but Cretans are Hellenized too according to your logic", Cretans/Minoans, were already similar to the pre Indo-European population of Greece. They just received the IE language a little bit later.


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[Hamlet]

why? You as a jew should know that jews do the same: they marry between themselves and a jew has the right to be so only if his MOTHER is jew

Yes, yet there seems to be less than 10% foreign genetic admixture on the paternal side, at least for Ashkenazim.

Also, Jews basically prohibit intermarriage (not officially, but back then, it would be an unspoken rule) - is the same true for Italians and Greeks?

[Tauromachos]

Yes, yet there seems to be less than 10% foreign genetic admixture on the paternal side, at least for Ashkenazim.

Also, Jews basically prohibit intermarriage (not officially, but back then, it would be an unspoken rule) - is the same true for Italians and Greeks?

Did you ever heard about the theory of the 13th tribe?

[wvwvw]

Your theories aren't supported by anyone. Pontians and Cypriots are Hellenized populations, whether you like or not. The Greek identity was created back when the Indo-Europeans arrived to Greece and assimilated the local majority. Neither Pontians nor Cypriots were Greek back then.

Before you start this "but Cretans are Hellenized too according to your logic", Cretans/Minoans, were already similar to the pre Indo-European population of Greece. They just received the IE language a little bit later.

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Cypriots colonized Greece 10,000 ago and the Greek language was evolved from the language they spoke. The closest dialect was Arcado-Cypriot from which Mycenean Greek derives. Then Greece re-colonized Cyprus. Cypriot DNA is in fact evident in over a dozen populations. They have markers in their dna that makes them uniquely Cypriot. Cypriots dna spread as far as Hungary and Yemen since they beought agriculture to Europe, and thereafter Greeks spread it to Europe.

New Survey Says Greeks, Cypriots Taught Agriculture to Neolithic Scandinavians
http://eu.greekreporter.com/2012/05/01/new-survey-says-greeks-taught-agriculture-to-neolithic-scandinavians/

Using this ‘Cypriot DNA’ pattern, the researchers were able to determine, for instance, that Hungarian people, although their DNA contains a majority of Polish and Lithuanian markers, it also contains a substantial amount of Cypriot DNA – almost 20 per cent – in those scanned.

Similarly, Romanian DNA contains mostly Lithuanian DNA, but almost equal amounts of Greek DNA and Cypriot DNA. The Turkish test subjects were found to have 6.2 per cent Cypriot dna. Other populations where Cypriot markers were found included Armenian 4.8 per cent, Bedouin 7.4 per cent, Belorussian 1.4 per cent, Bulgarian – over 12 per cent – Druze, 11.3 per cent, Egyptian 6.5 per cent, French 6.4 per cent, Iranian 6.3 per cent, Jordanian 9.9 per cent, Syrian 8.8 per cent, Tunisian 5.9 per cent, Italian 7.7 per cent and Yemeni 4.8 per cent. Armenians were found to have predominantly Iranian, followed by Cypriot and Syrian markers.

[Tauromachos]

Crete was invaded by Cypriots :cool:

[Kelmendasi]

Cypriots colonized Greece 10,000 ago and the Greek language was evolved from the language they spoke. The closest dialect was Arcado-Cypriot from which Mycenean Greek derives. Then Greece re-colonized Cyprus. Cypriot DNA is in fact evident in over a dozen populations. They have markers in their dna that makes them uniquely Cypriot. Cypriots dna spread as far as Hungary and Yemen since they beought agriculture to Europe, and thereafter Greeks to Europe.

Using this ‘Cypriot DNA’ pattern, the researchers were able to determine, for instance, that Hungarian people, although their DNA contains a majority of Polish and Lithuanian markers, it also contains a substantial amount of Cypriot DNA – almost 20 per cent – in those scanned.

Similarly, Romanian DNA contains mostly Lithuanian DNA, but almost equal amounts of Greek DNA and Cypriot DNA. The Turkish test subjects were found to have 6.2 per cent Cypriot dna. Other populations where Cypriot markers were found included Armenian 4.8 per cent, Bedouin 7.4 per cent, Belorussian 1.4 per cent, Bulgarian – over 12 per cent – Druze, 11.3 per cent, Egyptian 6.5 per cent, French 6.4 per cent, Iranian 6.3 per cent, Jordanian 9.9 per cent, Syrian 8.8 per cent, Tunisian 5.9 per cent, Italian 7.7 per cent and Yemeni 4.8 per cent. Armenians were found to have predominantly Iranian, followed by Cypriot and Syrian markers.
The first language in Cyprus was called "Eteocypriot" and has some similarities to NW Semetic languages

[Stears]

Using this ‘Cypriot DNA’ pattern, the researchers were able to determine, for instance, that Hungarian people, although their DNA contains a majority of Polish and Lithuanian markers, it also contains a substantial amount of Cypriot DNA – almost 20 per cent – in those scanned.

What the hell ???

[Leto]

I have no will to stay in this Jewish controlled forum anyway.
This forum needs to be purged, yes. Make TA Eurocentric again. I only read about genetic stuff, 'cause the rest is mostly crap.

[Lavrentis]

Cypriots colonized Greece 10,000 ago and the Greek language was evolved from the language they spoke. The closest dialect was Arcado-Cypriot from which Mycenean Greek derives. Then Greece re-colonized Cyprus. Cypriot DNA is in fact evident in over a dozen populations. They have markers in their dna that makes them uniquely Cypriot. Cypriots dna spread as far as Hungary and Yemen since they beought agriculture to Europe, and thereafter Greeks to Europe.

Using this ‘Cypriot DNA’ pattern, the researchers were able to determine, for instance, that Hungarian people, although their DNA contains a majority of Polish and Lithuanian markers, it also contains a substantial amount of Cypriot DNA – almost 20 per cent – in those scanned.

Similarly, Romanian DNA contains mostly Lithuanian DNA, but almost equal amounts of Greek DNA and Cypriot DNA. The Turkish test subjects were found to have 6.2 per cent Cypriot dna. Other populations where Cypriot markers were found included Armenian 4.8 per cent, Bedouin 7.4 per cent, Belorussian 1.4 per cent, Bulgarian – over 12 per cent – Druze, 11.3 per cent, Egyptian 6.5 per cent, French 6.4 per cent, Iranian 6.3 per cent, Jordanian 9.9 per cent, Syrian 8.8 per cent, Tunisian 5.9 per cent, Italian 7.7 per cent and Yemeni 4.8 per cent. Armenians were found to have predominantly Iranian, followed by Cypriot and Syrian markers.

Maybe it's true that you are a Cypriot yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tauromachos]

The first language in Cyprus was called "Eteocypriot" and has some similarities to NW Semetic languages

Nope

Perhabs some people claim that


Other people claim it was Indo European

[Kelmendasi]

Nope

Perhabs some people claim that


Other people claim it was Indo European
Afaik it's pre-IE. And is believed to be related to either Etruscan, Lemnian or NW Semitic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eteocypriot_language

[Tauromachos]

Afaik it's pre-IE. And is believed to be related to either Etruscan, Lemnian or NW Semitic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eteocypriot_language

What means Pre-IE?

Etruscan is also claimed Indo European by some

[Kelmendasi]

What means Pre-IE?

Etruscan is also claimed Indo European by some
Pre-IE languages are languages that were around before Indo-European and are not Indo-European. Etruscan definitely isn't Indo-European

[wvwvw]

What the hell ???

The Neolithic you score on various calculators is Cypriot. In fact the Cypriots had domesticate the cat some 5000 years before the Egyptians:
Oldest Known Pet Cat? 9,500-Year-Old Burial Found on Cyprus
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0408_040408_oldestpetcat.html

Cypriots were among the first to spread the cultivation of wine
The oldest wine in the world?
The wine of kings... – Commandaria wine from Cyprus is recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records as the oldest named wine in the world. According to legend, King Richard the Lionheart of England was so taken with commandaria that at his wedding in 1191 he pronounced it "the wine of kings and the king of wines".
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/13/business/commandaria-the-oldest-wine-world/index.html

On the fun side The Maya also showed traces of Irish DNA, and the Irish people scanned had significant Greek DNA markers, although their make-up was predominantly Scottish and Norwegian (Celtic and Viking).

[Tauromachos]

Pre-IE languages are languages that were around before Indo-European and are not Indo-European. Etruscan definitely isn't Indo-European

From where do you know what was Indo European and what not?


Is there only Pre-Indoeuropean or also Pre-Semitic?

[Stears]

The Neolithic you score on various calculators is Cypriot.

On the fun side The Maya also showed traces of Irish DNA, and the Irish people scanned had significant Greek DNA markers, although their make-up was predominantly Scottish and Norwegian (Celtic and Viking).

Cypriot people never lived in Hungary. It just the general mediterrano admixture...

[Wrong]

:laugh:

[Kelmendasi]

From where do you know what was Indo European and what not?


Is there only Pre-Indoeuropean or also Pre-Semitic?
I know because linguists have recorded Etruscan as a pre-IE language as it doesn't have the characteristics of an IE language. There is also pre-Semitic such as Sumerian

[Tauromachos]

Cypriot people never lived in Hungary. It just the general mediterrano admixture...

AHAHAHAHAA :bump2:

[Lavrentis]

Edit

[Stears]

AHAHAHAHAA :bump2:

?

[Teucer]

Cypriot people never lived in Hungary. It just the general mediterrano admixture...

Nope. We wuz kangs

[Lavrentis]

Coming up on Raine/wvwvw news: Cypriots discovered the moon through Zoroastrianism which was originally a Cypriot religion


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[wvwvw]

Cypriot people never lived in Hungary. It just the general mediterrano admixture...

Neolithic people did live in Hungary though

[Wrong]

?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Tintin_-_Thomson_%26_Thompson.png

[Stears]

Nope. We wuz kangs

There were some Greek populations in Budapest (the 19th century traders and the communist refugees from the Greek civil war), but their ancestry don't exist outside of the capital in the general Hungarian population.

[Tauromachos]

I know because linguists have recorded Etruscan as a pre-IE language as it doesn't have the characteristics of an IE language. There is also pre-Semitic such as Sumerian

As i said some people claim it as Pre-Indoeuropean others don't and say it was Indo European.
What they agree so far that it was related to Luwian.
See for yourself

here

https://nexusnewsfeed.com/article/ancient-mysteries/exploring-an-ancient-and-undeciphered-language-eteocypriot-and-the-amathus-bilingual-inscription/


As the evidence suggests, the language spoken by the Eteocypriots during the Iron Age, which may have also been the same language spoken by the Cypriot natives in the Bronze Age, was of an Indo-European subset, closely related to Luwian; an ancient language spoken predominantly on the mainland of Southern and Western Anatolia. It isn’t too difficult to imagine the ancient migration patterns of an Indo-European stock from the mainland, moving southward to the island of Cyprus. Also, at the height of the Hittite empire, Cyprus was under the dominion and influence of the Hittites. With this knowledge in place, we are more likely to achieve full decipherment of the limited Eteocypriot corpus.

[Teucer]

There were some Greek populations in Budapest (the 19th century traders and the communist refugees from the Greek civil war), but their ancestry don't exist outside of the capital in the general Hungarian population.

I wasn't being serious, don't worry aha

[Tauromachos]

There were some Greek populations in Budapest (the 19th century traders and the communist refugees from the Greek civil war), but their ancestry don't exist outside of the capital in the general Hungarian population.

You could still shift towards Sicily and Cyprus due to Hungarian Jews :cool:

[Kelmendasi]

As i said some people claim it as Pre-Indoeuropean others don't and say it was Indo European.
What they agree so far that it was related to Luwian.
See for yourself

here

https://nexusnewsfeed.com/article/ancient-mysteries/exploring-an-ancient-and-undeciphered-language-eteocypriot-and-the-amathus-bilingual-inscription/
It's possible, but so far there still isn't a clear picture on what it actually was like

[Stears]

You could still shift towards Sicily and Cyprus due to Hungarian Jews :cool:

I'm not Jewish ancestry, and my shift eastern, not southern on the genetic maps.

[GiCa]

Of course. He have an agenda and wants to be be buttfucked by Lebanese.
This is clearly a case of a stupid faggot/homosexual/jew trying to elevate his personal obsessions to fact.

Clementina/Portuguese Princess/Tranny should kill herself.

Offences on Sexual Preferences are really Bad.

What if people offend you for your Sexual preferences? Think on reverse and you would get offended too

[Tauromachos]

It's possible, but so far there still isn't a clear picture on what it actually was like

Exactly

[Tauromachos]

I'm not Jewish ancestry, and my shift eastern, not southern on the genetic maps.

Middle Eastern?

[wvwvw]

Coming up on Raine/wvwvw news: Cypriots discovered the moon through Zoroastrianism which was originally a Cypriot religion


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The Cypriot-like Cretans spread agriculture to Europe. The Cretans were masters of the sea long before the Egyptian Dynastic period even began. Their Thalassocracy extended from the pillars of Hercules to Thyrrenia in Northern Italy to Egypt in the south. The had a sea Empire and they travelled far and wide. Why do you think there have been found Minoan colonies in Northern Europe. Cretans and later the Myceneans, were the only advanced civilization capable of spreading agriculture, agricultural terms, which would have made the majority of words in the PIE language. Pie language spread through writting and trade.

[Stears]

Middle Eastern?

no, the more conqueror ancestry :))))))

[Teucer]

Why do you think there have been found Minoan colonies in Northern Europe.

What?

[Longobarda]

Yes, yet there seems to be less than 10% foreign genetic admixture on the paternal side, at least for Ashkenazim.

Also, Jews basically prohibit intermarriage (not officially, but back then, it would be an unspoken rule) - is the same true for Italians and Greeks?

Not today!! www was referring to ANCIENT greeks and not to modern greeks

[Tauromachos]

no, the more conqueror ancestry :))))))

North Eastern
No?

[wvwvw]

Pre-IE languages are languages that were around before Indo-European and are not Indo-European. Etruscan definitely isn't Indo-European

That's because Etruria was a geographical term not a single tribe. Dozen of different tribes lived there. The Tyrsenoi and Tuscans both lived in Etruria for example, but they had nothing to do with the other. The Tuscans were Italo-celtic natives whiereas the Tyrsenoi came from Lydia and were related to Phrygians.

[Stears]

North Eastern
No?

Finnish and the North Caucasian, all of which were present in the conqueror tribes.

[Tauromachos]

.. There is also pre-Semitic such as Sumerian

:thumb001:

[Tauromachos]

Finnish and the North Caucasian, all of which were present in the conqueror tribes.

No Slavic??

[Kelmendasi]

That's because Etruria was a geographical term not a single tribe. Dozen of different tribes lived there. The Tyrsenoi and Tuscans both lived in Etruria for example, but they had nothing to do with the other. The Tuscans were Italo-celtic natives whiereas the Tyrsenoi came from Lydia and were related to Phrygians.
Etruscans have nothing to do with Celts and Tyrrhenian is a term used to denote a non-Greek although some theories believe it to be a language group to which Etruscan, Raetian and Lemnian belong to

[wvwvw]

The first language in Cyprus was called "Eteocypriot" and has some similarities to NW Semetic languages

Eteocretans were the original inhabitants of Crete. (The Cretans never called themselves Minoan actually)

Homer in his Odyssey lists the Eteocretan language among the Greek dialects. He said their language overlapped with that of Dorians, Pelasgians etc.

They probably originally spoke Proto-Greek or the root language that was spoken theoughout the Balkans, Greece and Asia Minor: Greco-Anatolian which would have been very similar to proto-Greek.

[Kelmendasi]

Eteocretans were the original inhabitants of Crete. (The Cretans never called themselves Minoan actually)

Homer in his Odyssey lists the Eteocretan language among the Greek dialects. He said their language overlapped with that of Dorians, Pelasgians etc.

They probably originally spoke Proto-Greek or the root language that was spoken theoughout the Balkans, Greece and Asia Minor: Greco-Anatolian which would have been very similar to proto-Greek.
Ummm Greek is IE whilst Minoan languages were not

[Stears]

No Slavic??

Slavic admixture was not present among the conqueror tribes. But we have some Panonnian-Slavic admixture, and I'm 1/8 Slavic by the ancestry.

[Lavrentis]

Ummm Greek is IE whilst Minoan languages were not

She can't understand that Greek is IE because some thousands of years ago, Indo-European people settled in Greece and imposed their language, like in most of Europe. But still, Greeks are descended from the pre-IE people of Greece, rather than the IE invaders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kelmendasi]

She can't understand that Greek is IE because some thousands of years ago, Indo-European people settled in Greece and imposed their language, like in most of Europe. But still, Greeks are descended from the pre-IE people of Greece, rather than the IE invaders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes genetically Greece and other countries in SE Europe like Albania are mainly pre-IE but our languages are IE

[wvwvw]

Etruscans have nothing to do with Celts and Tyrrhenian is a term used to denote a non-Greek although some theories believe it to be a language group to which Etruscan, Raetian and Lemnian belong to

You're making things up. Pelasgians from Thessaly also lived in Etruria, above the Tyrrhenians at Creston.

The Romans used Tyrrhenia as a Geographic term and not to refer to a specific tribe. The Etruscans are a mixture of lots of different tribes.

[wvwvw]

Yes genetically Greece and other countries in SE Europe like Albania are mainly pre-IE but our languages are IE

The Steppe people did not speak IE languages until they came in contact with the Mediterranean non-Steppe people who did speak what would later be called Indo-European.

Steppe people's languages only contributed some 20-30% to PIE, biggest constribution came from proto-Greek which contributed over 70% of words to pie.

[Kelmendasi]

You're making things up. Pelasgians from Thessaly also lived in Etruria, above the Tyrrhenians at Creston.

The Romans used Tyrrhenia as a Geographic term and not to refer to a specific tribe. The Etruscans are a mixture of lots of different tribes.
No i'm not, just search it up.

[Kelmendasi]

The Steppe people did not speak IE languages until they came in contact with the Mediterranean non-Steppe people who did speak what would later be called Indo-European.
Steppe people did speak IE this is confirmed fact as shown by the Yamna. Med people didn't speak IE before those Steppe people invaded apart from some in Anatolia whom had arrived from the Steppe earlier

[Tauromachos]

Yes genetically Greece and other countries in SE Europe like Albania are mainly pre-IE but our languages are IE

Its still not clear how and when Indoeuropean languages were introduced into these regions and what exactly was pre-IE and what not

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40791188



But the much more minor influx of Steppe people into Greece compared with northern Europe has led some to conclude that this migration could not have effected a change in language. This might imply that progenitors of Greek - and perhaps other Indo-European languages - were already established in the Aegean by the time the Steppe people arrived.


While the Mycenaeans are known to have spoken an early form of Greek, the earliest recorded language spoken by the Minoan people on Crete - known as Linear A - can be read but not translated. This implies that it belonged either to a distinct branch of Indo-European or to an entirely different language family.

[Kelmendasi]

Its still not clear how and when Indoeuropean languages were introduced into these regions and what exactly was pre-IE and what not

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40791188
Steppe people arrived during the Bronze Age after Neolithic peoples had arrived afaik

[Sikeliot]

I still want to know how anyone with eyes can see THIS chart and think the mainland Greeks are not closer to the Albanians than to the Cretans and Sicilians.

https://i.imgur.com/WCpWGOX.png

[Tauromachos]

Steppe people arrived during the Bronze Age after Neolithic peoples had arrived afaik

Still isn't clear if Indo European was already brought by the Farmers or only later by the Steppe people

[Kelmendasi]

Still isn't clear if Indo European was already brought by the Farmers or only later by the Steppe people
It's extremely unlikely for Neolithic peoples to have carried Indo-European languages as they pre-date any sign of IE in the area and Indo-Europeans seem to be genetically distinct from Farmers

[Tauromachos]

It's extremely unlikely for Neolithic peoples to have carried Indo-European languages as they pre-date any sign of IE in the area and Indo-Europeans seem to be genetically distinct from Farmers

Ok let me repeat the quote from the link i have posted with some additional text i left
previously out

But how and when Indo-European speech spread across Europe remains a subject of debate. Some scholars believe the languages were introduced by the first farmers migrating from the Near East.
Other researchers believe they were spread later, during the Bronze Age, by the herders who migrated west from the Steppe.
But the much more minor influx of Steppe people into Greece compared with northern Europe has led some to conclude that this migration could not have effected a change in language. This might imply that progenitors of Greek - and perhaps other Indo-European languages - were already established in the Aegean by the time the Steppe people arrived.
While the Mycenaeans are known to have spoken an early form of Greek, the earliest recorded language spoken by the Minoan people on Crete - known as Linear A - can be read but not translated. This implies that it belonged either to a distinct branch of Indo-European or to an entirely different language family.



Here is the link again http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40791188

[Kelmendasi]

Ok let me repeat the quote from the link i have posted with some additional text i left
previously out


Here is the link again http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40791188
The fact that SE Europe has less IE admixture doesn't mean that IE was already established there it can just mean that most retained their farmer admix by just adopting the language. Still it can be possible that some IE migrated into Europe from Anatolia although I would say it's still derived from the Steppes

[Tauromachos]

The fact that SE Europe has less IE admixture doesn't mean that IE was already established there it can just mean that most retained their farmer admix by just adopting the language. Still it can be possible that some IE migrated into Europe from Anatolia although I would say it's still derived from the Steppes

It can it can not...

[Longobarda]

The Neolithic you score on various calculators is Cypriot. In fact the Cypriots had domesticate the cat some 5000 years before the Egyptians:
Oldest Known Pet Cat? 9,500-Year-Old Burial Found on Cyprus
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0408_040408_oldestpetcat.html

Cypriots were among the first to spread the cultivation of wine
The oldest wine in the world?
The wine of kings... – Commandaria wine from Cyprus is recognized by the Guinness Book of World Records as the oldest named wine in the world. According to legend, King Richard the Lionheart of England was so taken with commandaria that at his wedding in 1191 he pronounced it "the wine of kings and the king of wines".
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/13/business/commandaria-the-oldest-wine-world/index.html

On the fun side The Maya also showed traces of Irish DNA, and the Irish people scanned had significant Greek DNA markers, although their make-up was predominantly Scottish and Norwegian (Celtic and Viking).

Do you know SEA PEOPLE? Their history is varied and complicated but all of them ended in Cyprus before going back home (various homes, from Southern Mediterranean to northern Europe).
Moreover in Cyprus there is an ancient seventh and Sixth century BC votive figurines in terracotta from the Agia Irini shrine which was worshipped by all the populations of the mediterranean sea, black sea, middle east, steppes..... you can see the votive statuettes of the visitors representing their phenotypes. It is astonishing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqcU65oCUAAI5W0.jpg
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/a894fbbfcd884eeeacc52a421fff3ba0/dedicatory-terracotta-figurines-from-the-sanctuary-of-agia-irini-eirini-j4kbfh.jpg
https://ancientarchives.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/clay-sculptures-from-an-ancient-cult-centre-at-cyprus-called-aija-irini1.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Arheologicheski-Terracotta_figurines_from_Ayia_Irini%2C_NW_Cyprus. JPG
http://img.masterpieces.asemus.museum/masterpieces/11522/detail/thumb_540x420_A.I.%202328%202340%202373_AI2328b.jp g
http://www.heiditrautmann.com/pictures/Akdeniz%202_w500.jpg
http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/e917a3aa28874b569b9c6d22cf7848bc/statue-of-a-men-500-bc-terracotta-from-mersinaki-cyprus-museum-of-h4yj4t.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/7a/93/e1/7a93e135d0f38c2e2079da9497803b8b--ancient-artifacts-ancient-greece.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0c/e5/56/0ce556fdd3d997a741181b94b106a053--cyprus-ancient-art.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqcU6mpCUAAQYZO.jpg
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3548049877_88799c7904_b.jpg
http://www.hermesairports.com/assets/image/imageBlogLarge/terracotta%20statues.jpg

[Incal]

I haven't met a person who denies, agrees or even cares about that matter.

[kleenex]

But has this shift to West-Asia popped up recently or has it been there since ancient times? That is the fundamental question.

If were talking Caucasus (in most cases) then Neolithic. If were talking population exchanges or resettlements (but I think that's pretty isolated) maybe more recent.

[wvwvw]

She can't understand that Greek is IE because some thousands of years ago, Indo-European people settled in Greece and imposed their language, like in most of Europe. But still, Greeks are descended from the pre-IE people of Greece, rather than the IE invaders.

So Fantom Indo-European people came from the Steppes, and imposed their language on the majority of the population of Greece, who according to your logic they were moot before these Steppe people arrive and did not speak their own language. Never mind that the Greek language has over 6 million words, or the fact that Neolithic Greeks had developed an older, much more advanced civilization than anything the people in steppes were capable of during the same period.

Foreign languages cannot be imposed on subjugated people unless they are written down and speared through literature. This is how Assyrian replaced Hittite in Anatolia and how Greek was spread throughout Europe. The Greeks were the bringers of writing, agriculture, science, and philosophy to Europe and thus all the terms pertaining to these derived from Greek.

By contrast hunter gatherers had a limited vocabulary of only about 60 words since they were nomadic hunter gatherers who not civilised and 60 words is all they needed. The Steppe tribes had no need for a complex langue since they had no idea of what to express in it.

Everythig else was adopted from the transfer of Greek words that were commonly used in agriculture. If someone did not have a name for a Goat they adopted the Greek word because the Greeks had them first. That is what is shown by archaeology which has discovered Greek ships and trade with the whole of the Mediterranean region and Asia dating from at 3000 BC if not 8000 BC when the first cats were domesticated in Cyprus, and since Cyprus was the first place to domesticate Cats the Greek word Gata entered the language of every place they were exported to and the same with the names of other domestic beast and commodities traded by the Greeks. The words of the Indo-European languages entered these langue through trade. When something new was invented the inventor gave it a name and that name was transmitted to all the people who used that invention.

[wvwvw]

Neolithic Greeks spoke proto-Greek or you may call it a Greco-Anatolian root language, like I said this language must have been very close to Greek, and would have been spoken throughout the Balkans, Greece, Anatolia and the Levant.

The arrival of Steppe people probably enriched the already formed proto-Greek neolithic language and Archaic Greek was born. The languages of Anatolia became unaffected by this Steppe influence and so they split from Greek.

I would say Neolithic proto-Greek contributed by far the most to Greek language and Steppe language had much less influence to the evolution of Greek.

[Longobarda]

SEA PEOPLE

http://www.artsales.com/images_legacy/home/Invasion_Routes.jpg

http://www.searchingthescriptures.net/images/maps/034.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QRpOnVpNDAQ/SNqfuNNTdpI/AAAAAAAAAVA/xX6FpAZ4lfE/s400/Europa_Labirinti.gif

[Longobarda]

http://www.terraiblea.it/images/colonie-greche-in-sicilia_05.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-af.svg/510px-Magna_Graecia_ancient_colonies_and_dialects-af.svg.png

[GiCa]

Yes. But the mentality is totally different

Sicilians could marry into a Georgian or an Armenian.. But a marriage with a Lebanese or other Muslims is very difficult and almost impossible

We are more compatible with East Asians, South Americans, or African blacks than with a Lebanese

Deal with it: Italians are 0 compatible with Lebaneses.

So your Lebanese-sicilian dream is impossible

Better and more realistic an Italian-Philipino or Italian-Chinese love if you want to look at extra europeans

Any marriage with a middle eastern that is not Jewish is really hard and not convenient

[wvwvw]

Yes. But the mentality is totally different

Sicilians could marry into a Georgian or an Armenian.. But a marriage with a Lebanese or other Muslims is very difficult and almost impossible

We are more compatible with East Asians, South Americans, or African blacks than with a Lebanese

Deal with it: Italians are 0 compatible with Lebaneses.

So your Lebanese-sicilian dream is impossible

Better and more realistic an Italian-Philipino or Italian-Chinese love if you want to look at extra europeans

Any marriage with a middle eastern that is not Jewish is really hard and not convenient

You are hurting Sikeliot's feelings with your cruel words

[GiCa]

You are hurting Sikeliot's feelings with your cruel words

He is in America, probably there the middle east immigrants behave differently, are integrated and are tolerant.. A thing that cannot be generally said for those in europe with the great proof evidence of terrorist attacks of people from those culture in the European cities.

Few rare couple are good with them. Most end in a tragedy.

When we connect with somebody else is usually with European immigrants or east asian immigrants.

With the other there are evident problems. They Don t go out with us. Or at least their females Don t go out with us.. As a response as it s not fair trade we Don t let go out with us even the males.

So all this Sicilian Lebanese connection is pure bullshit and nominally some fuking prehistoric genes nobody care because we are not compatible.

There are some exception like some Iranians who are culturally more ocidentalized.

This is said in general statistic therms. There are individual exception of Italy culture loving and tolerant middle easterns.

But statistics are important, so we have a greater connection with the well being open democratic, rich and ocidentalized societies of North east Asia.

[MagnusAurelius]

Of course. He have an agenda and wants to be be buttfucked by Lebanese.
This is clearly a case of a stupid faggot/homosexual/jew trying to elevate his personal obsessions to fact.

Clementina/Portuguese Princess/Tranny should kill herself.

This is actually true? He is mentally ill if hes trans-sexual. Degenerate Liberals, would expect nothing less.

[GiCa]

This is actually true? He is mentally ill if hes trans-sexual. Degenerate Liberals, would expect nothing less.

No it s you the retrograde degenerate

[wvwvw]

Why do people deny South Italy and Aegean islands are close phenotypically/genetically to West Asia?
I honestly do not see how this can continue to be denied. It should be considered scientific anthropological fact.


Because you are generalizing. Not all of Siciilians or islanders are phenotypically similar to West Asians.

I can use the same argument and ask: Why people deny that Lebanese are phenotypically close to Saudi Arabia?

Why are Turks phenotypically close to Turkmens? etc.

[Mingle]

Yes. But the mentality is totally different

Sicilians could marry into a Georgian or an Armenian.. But a marriage with a Lebanese or other Muslims is very difficult and almost impossible

We are more compatible with East Asians, South Americans, or African blacks than with a Lebanese

Deal with it: Italians are 0 compatible with Lebaneses.

So your Lebanese-sicilian dream is impossible

Better and more realistic an Italian-Philipino or Italian-Chinese love if you want to look at extra europeans

Any marriage with a middle eastern that is not Jewish is really hard and not convenient

Lebanon is 40% Christian. If you include the diaspora, then there are more Lebanese Christians than there are Muslims. Either way, this thread was solely about phenotype/genotype, not culture.

[GiCa]

Lebanon is 40% Christian. If you include the diaspora, then there are more Lebanese Christians than there are Muslims. Either way, this thread was solely about phenotype/genotype, not culture.

Ok

Regardless of genotype wich nobody in real life care at all there is 0 connection between Sicilian and majority of people from the Levant as the religion and more over culture is oposite

In italy you don t find Lebanese christians

You can only find north Africans, Pakis, Bengals. With those ethnicity marriages or cultural exchanges are near to 0.

You find East europeans, chineses, Philippinos, Peruvians in italy; with these ethnicities the marriages and cultural curiosity friendship can be great.

[wvwvw]

SEA PEOPLE

http://www.artsales.com/images_legacy/home/Invasion_Routes.jpg


The map is wrong. The Welesh were not Welsh and the Danaans were not Danubians. How come their kings had Greek names and their inscriptions used Greek words if they weren't Greek?

The Sea people all have Greek tribal names.Their confederation was the Peleset, Tjeker, Skekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh, lands united.

In the eighth year of his reign Ramesses III wrote:


"The foreign countries made a conspiracy in their islands. All at once the lands were removed and scattered in the fray. No land could stand before their arms, from Hatti, Kode, Carchemish, Arzawa, and Alishiya on, being cut off. A camp was set up in one place AMURRU. They desolated its people, and its land was like that which had never come into being. They were coming forward toward Egypt, while the flame was prepared before them. Their confederation was the Peleset, Tjeker, Skekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh, lands united.They laid their hands upon the land as far as the circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting: "Our plans will succeed"...

Before the Greeks adopt the ethnonym Hellenes, they were known by their tribal names.

Look at the Egyptian murals and read their names. Denyen = Danaioi, Sped = Spatans, Peleset = Pelasgians, Tjeker = Teukrians led by Teucer, Weshesh = Ahhiwesha = Akhaiwoi = Achaeans led be Meneleus, Alishiya = Karpasia in Cyprus.

Not only do the names match but the dates match up with the attack of Menelaus on Egypt and Syria and Cyprus joined by Teucer 8 years after the Trojan War which according to both the Greek and Egyptian accounts he lost.

The Peleset were Pelasgians. Pelasgians were the original inhabitants of Arkadia who were named after their king Pelasgos who built the first cities there. Some of them migrated to Thessaly after the Deukalion flood and from there they migrated to where Herodotus says he found them.

Pelasgian was a dialect of Greek related to Mycenaean Arcado-Cypriot.

After the Trojan War Agapenor the king of the Arkadian Pelasgians migrated to Cyprus and it is his Pelasgians that are referred to by Ramses III.

The Danaioi are referred to in inscriptions by Djehutymes III (Aegyptus) and Amenhotop III by that name and artefacts belonging to the latter king have been found at Mycenae including a room in the palace with his name written on the door frame.

The Teukrians are Trojens or "Tjehenu" in the inscription of Merneptah. The inscription of Ramses III referring to 1175 BC names Teucer the son of Telamon "Tjeker" (Teukrian on his mothers side) and also mentions the Spartans or "Sped" in referring to events in 1178 BC.

The Sherden were Sardinians and a Greek colony founded by Aristaeus to son-in-law of Cadmus in 1420 BC which was recolonised by the Athenians under Iolaus in about 1220 BC which intermarried with some Trojan refugees blown of course after the Trojan War in 1183 BC. (Pausanius.10.17.1-7)

[MagnusAurelius]

No it s you the retrograde degenerate

You glorify degeneracy in your profile. LGBT pride, letting homosexuals have so much rights degrades society, to have their pride parades.

https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/gay-pride-2017.jpg

Your Political views are a living contradiction, how can you have national pride/identity with in combination with Social Justice Warrior ideologies like anti-racism and anti-discrimination. Gonna cling to "National pride" when Italians are a minority in their own homeland. Brainwashed by Leftist fantasies.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?204320-Germany-wtf-Germans-got-cucked-like-Japs-after-WW2&p=4799194&viewfull=1#post4799194 It all goes back to this after all. You are scum.

[wvwvw]

You glorify degeneracy in your profile. LGBT pride, letting homosexuals have so much rights degrades society, to have their pride parades.

https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/gay-pride-2017.jpg

Your Political views are a living contradiction, how can you have national pride/identity with in combination with Social Justice Warrior ideologies like anti-racism and anti-discrimination. Gonna cling to "National pride" when Italians are a minority in their own homeland. Brainwashed by Leftist fantasies.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?204320-Germany-wtf-Germans-got-cucked-like-Japs-after-WW2&p=4799194&viewfull=1#post4799194 It all goes back to this after all. You are scum.

There are things more degenarate to worry about

[Sikeliot]

Yes. But the mentality is totally different

Sicilians could marry into a Georgian or an Armenian.. But a marriage with a Lebanese or other Muslims is very difficult and almost impossible

We are more compatible with East Asians, South Americans, or African blacks than with a Lebanese

Deal with it: Italians are 0 compatible with Lebaneses.

So your Lebanese-sicilian dream is impossible

Better and more realistic an Italian-Philipino or Italian-Chinese love if you want to look at extra europeans

Any marriage with a middle eastern that is not Jewish is really hard and not convenient


All this proves is religion is the ultimate dividing factor in society and I have long stated this myself, though it is unfortunate that this is the case. But I know a lot more Levantine Christians than Muslims so that is where my perspective is from.

Also for those who said otherwise, I am NOT transgender. I do not believe in the concept of gender.

[Kamal900]

Lol, people here are so butthurt.

[GiCa]

All this proves is religion is the ultimate dividing factor in society and I have long stated this myself, though it is unfortunate that this is the case. But I know a lot more Levantine Christians than Muslims so that is where my perspective is from.

Also for those who said otherwise, I am NOT transgender. I do not believe in the concept of gender.

In italy they don't t exist. From middle ear and north Africa we only have mostly retrograde Muslim migrations


Take in mind that regarding sex orientation open mindness they are the worst. In their country there is even death penalty for homosexuals.
So if you do turismo here take in mind that they may be aggressive with you.

As I said they are not integrale as we Don t go out with them, more over because they Don t let their women go out with us, so as a fair thing we Don t let the men go out with us too

[GiCa]

They send the worst scum to our coyntry

Probably the more culturally advanced people remain in their countries

[Longobarda]

They send the worst scum to our coyntry

Probably the more culturally advanced people remain in their countries

GiCa, an anti-racist is anti-racist with everybody, not only with the populations you like

[Mortimer]

because of political reasons, they want to unite europeans and make us vs. them. they dont accept non-europeans. i mean white nationalists and people with similar mindset, they are quiete active on such forums.

[GiCa]

GiCa, an anti-racist is anti-racist with everybody, not only with the populations you like

I m a political i son t consider myself leftist. I just consider myself as just myself with my own ideas

I m not racist. How being against a culture that does harm you you with terrorism is being racist? I Don hate how they look. But I hate their mainstream culture or at least what they are doing in europe. There are exception and you know it. Those exceptions as noted in our politics like souad sbai and magdi allam speak 0 and venom on mainstream Muslim cultures

[Dimitri159]

I don’t deny that personally. But I do deny the idea that Greek islanders look entirely different from most mainland Greeks. I do think islanders have some degree of West Asian influence in their phenotype, but not any more than mainland Greeks. It is about equal. The only exception being native Macedonian Greeks. They look white af for Greeks.

[catgeorge]

I don’t deny that personally. But I do deny the idea that Greek islanders look entirely different from most mainland Greeks. I do think islanders have some degree of West Asian influence in their phenotype, but not any more than mainland Greeks. It is about equal. The only exception being native Macedonian Greeks. They look white af for Greeks.

You must be one of the dumbest people on this forum but I will give you some leeway as your brains are still developing.

K15 genetic autosmals of Greek Macedonians

Distance to: Greek_Macedonia
4.48575523 Greek_Peloponese
5.11134033 Greek
5.59221781 Greek_Thessaly
6.51286419 Albanian-North
6.60276457 Gagauz
6.75727016 Bulgarian_Thracian
6.84924083 Kosovo_Albanian
6.90474475 Albanian-South
7.10360472 Albanian-Macedonia
7.45538731 Macedonian_2
8.33688191 Albanian-Kosovo
9.05545140 Central_Greek
9.16707151 Bulgarian
9.82077899 Ashkenazi
9.84279432 Italy_Abruzzo
10.07809506 Italy_Apulia
10.76418134 Romania_South
10.95033789 Macedonian
10.98103820 Greek_Crete
11.74367489 Sicily_Ragusa
12.04942737 Romanian
12.11021883 Sicily_Syracuse
12.36417405 Italy_Marche
12.36757858 Italy_Lazio
12.46158096 Sicily_Trapani

Peloponnesians

Distance to: Greek_Peloponese
3.24333162 Greek
4.48575523 Greek_Macedonia
5.00602637 Albanian-South
5.90766451 Greek_Thessaly
5.96565168 Albanian-Macedonia
6.08586888 Albanian-North
6.42569841 Central_Greek
6.45540859 Kosovo_Albanian
6.65039848 Italy_Abruzzo
6.70097008 Italy_Apulia
7.17956127 Bulgarian_Thracian
7.73125475 Ashkenazi
8.13454363 Albanian-Kosovo
8.54462404 Sicily_Syracuse
8.76053651 Macedonian_2
8.76159232 Sicily_Ragusa
9.21253494 Sicily_Trapani
9.27139687 Greek_Crete
9.49387171 Sicily_Caltanisetta
9.51412634 Italy_Lazio
9.53762025 Sicily_Palermo
9.54509298 Italy_Marche
9.61856018 Italy_Campania
9.62701927 Gagauz
10.05176601 Italy_Central_Sicily

Distance to: Italy_Apulia
2.31149302 Central_Greek
2.47240773 Italy_Abruzzo
3.18957677 Sicily_Syracuse
3.21112130 Italy_Campania
3.27123830 Sicily_Palermo
3.37668476 Sicily_Caltanisetta
3.82179277 Sicily_Ragusa
3.95385887 Italy_Central_Sicily
4.19075172 Sicily_Trapani
4.29765052 Italy_West_Sicily
4.51954644 Sicily_Catania
4.61690372 Sicily_Agrigento
5.04127960 Sicily_Enna
5.21804561 Italy_East_Sicily
5.35768607 Sicily_Messina
5.62702408 Greek_Crete
5.78426313 Italy_Calabria
6.70097008 Greek_Peloponese
6.82995608 Ashkenazi
8.15242909 Albanian-South
8.15552573 Greek
8.83145515 Italy_Marche
9.14640913 Italy_Lazio
9.77762241 Italian_Jewish
9.80308625 Greek_Thessaly

Distance to: Italy_Abruzzo
2.47240773 Italy_Apulia
2.71624741 Central_Greek
3.63161121 Sicily_Syracuse
4.03062030 Sicily_Ragusa
4.53819347 Sicily_Caltanisetta
4.55460207 Sicily_Palermo
4.60608293 Sicily_Trapani
4.78442264 Italy_Campania
5.12922996 Italy_Central_Sicily
5.55719354 Italy_West_Sicily
5.90212674 Sicily_Catania
6.05456852 Sicily_Agrigento
6.52223888 Italy_East_Sicily
6.52711268 Greek_Crete
6.65039848 Greek_Peloponese
6.66324996 Sicily_Enna
6.74988889 Sicily_Messina
6.79850719 Ashkenazi
7.04965957 Italy_Calabria
7.79301610 Albanian-South
8.00274953 Italy_Marche
8.72251111 Greek
8.77447434 Italy_Lazio
9.29781157 Greek_Thessaly
9.38153506 Albanian-North

Nothing West Asian nor Jewish in these genetic results

[kingmob]

All Greeks, not just the islands, show such "drift", for lack of a better word, towards the East, some show a lot others less so.

The exception is some full blown Baltic looking cases from the northern parts.

Crete:



https://youtu.be/18Wq3MlNR-k


Pelopponesos:


https://youtu.be/lTKhlgfnVa4


Thrace:


https://youtu.be/z9Eo2YOhfNE

[Tongio]

This question needs to be asked in Eupedia, Angela will explain to you how anatolian farmers introduced blondism in europe, and all of eurogenes , except gedmatch projects for some reason, is anti italian nordic conspiracy.

[Dimitri159]

You must be one of the dumbest people on this forum but I will give you some leeway as your brains are still developing.

K15 genetic autosmals of Greek Macedonians

Distance to: Greek_Macedonia
4.48575523 Greek_Peloponese
5.11134033 Greek
5.59221781 Greek_Thessaly
6.51286419 Albanian-North
6.60276457 Gagauz
6.75727016 Bulgarian_Thracian
6.84924083 Kosovo_Albanian
6.90474475 Albanian-South
7.10360472 Albanian-Macedonia
7.45538731 Macedonian_2
8.33688191 Albanian-Kosovo
9.05545140 Central_Greek
9.16707151 Bulgarian
9.82077899 Ashkenazi
9.84279432 Italy_Abruzzo
10.07809506 Italy_Apulia
10.76418134 Romania_South
10.95033789 Macedonian
10.98103820 Greek_Crete
11.74367489 Sicily_Ragusa
12.04942737 Romanian
12.11021883 Sicily_Syracuse
12.36417405 Italy_Marche
12.36757858 Italy_Lazio
12.46158096 Sicily_Trapani

Peloponnesians

Distance to: Greek_Peloponese
3.24333162 Greek
4.48575523 Greek_Macedonia
5.00602637 Albanian-South
5.90766451 Greek_Thessaly
5.96565168 Albanian-Macedonia
6.08586888 Albanian-North
6.42569841 Central_Greek
6.45540859 Kosovo_Albanian
6.65039848 Italy_Abruzzo
6.70097008 Italy_Apulia
7.17956127 Bulgarian_Thracian
7.73125475 Ashkenazi
8.13454363 Albanian-Kosovo
8.54462404 Sicily_Syracuse
8.76053651 Macedonian_2
8.76159232 Sicily_Ragusa
9.21253494 Sicily_Trapani
9.27139687 Greek_Crete
9.49387171 Sicily_Caltanisetta
9.51412634 Italy_Lazio
9.53762025 Sicily_Palermo
9.54509298 Italy_Marche
9.61856018 Italy_Campania
9.62701927 Gagauz
10.05176601 Italy_Central_Sicily

Distance to: Italy_Apulia
2.31149302 Central_Greek
2.47240773 Italy_Abruzzo
3.18957677 Sicily_Syracuse
3.21112130 Italy_Campania
3.27123830 Sicily_Palermo
3.37668476 Sicily_Caltanisetta
3.82179277 Sicily_Ragusa
3.95385887 Italy_Central_Sicily
4.19075172 Sicily_Trapani
4.29765052 Italy_West_Sicily
4.51954644 Sicily_Catania
4.61690372 Sicily_Agrigento
5.04127960 Sicily_Enna
5.21804561 Italy_East_Sicily
5.35768607 Sicily_Messina
5.62702408 Greek_Crete
5.78426313 Italy_Calabria
6.70097008 Greek_Peloponese
6.82995608 Ashkenazi
8.15242909 Albanian-South
8.15552573 Greek
8.83145515 Italy_Marche
9.14640913 Italy_Lazio
9.77762241 Italian_Jewish
9.80308625 Greek_Thessaly

Distance to: Italy_Abruzzo
2.47240773 Italy_Apulia
2.71624741 Central_Greek
3.63161121 Sicily_Syracuse
4.03062030 Sicily_Ragusa
4.53819347 Sicily_Caltanisetta
4.55460207 Sicily_Palermo
4.60608293 Sicily_Trapani
4.78442264 Italy_Campania
5.12922996 Italy_Central_Sicily
5.55719354 Italy_West_Sicily
5.90212674 Sicily_Catania
6.05456852 Sicily_Agrigento
6.52223888 Italy_East_Sicily
6.52711268 Greek_Crete
6.65039848 Greek_Peloponese
6.66324996 Sicily_Enna
6.74988889 Sicily_Messina
6.79850719 Ashkenazi
7.04965957 Italy_Calabria
7.79301610 Albanian-South
8.00274953 Italy_Marche
8.72251111 Greek
8.77447434 Italy_Lazio
9.29781157 Greek_Thessaly
9.38153506 Albanian-North

Nothing West Asian nor Jewish in these genetic results

I highlighted the instances above. Furthermore, South Italians, Southern Greeks and Jewish groups are relatively close to the West Asian cluster on PCA maps. They are somehere in between the European and West Asian cluster.

https://preview.redd.it/znoo7h92o0l51.jpg?auto=webp&cc6f1487

https://preview.redd.it/znoo7h92o0l51.jpg?auto=webp&cc6f1487

[Dimitri159]

All Greeks, not just the islands, show such "drift", for lack of a better word, towards the East, some show a lot others less so.

The exception is some full blown Baltic looking cases from the northern parts.

Crete:



https://youtu.be/18Wq3MlNR-k


Pelopponesos:


https://youtu.be/lTKhlgfnVa4


Thrace:


https://youtu.be/z9Eo2YOhfNE

I agree with this 100%.

[Dimitri159]

This question needs to be asked in Eupedia, Angela will explain to you how anatolian farmers introduced blondism in europe, and all of eurogenes , except gedmatch projects for some reason, is anti italian nordic conspiracy.

Then why are more Germans blonde than Greeks or Sardinians who have a substantial amount more of Anatolian Farmer ancestry as opposed to Germans with more Steppe and WHG? I’m sorry, but this does not add up accurately.
Anatolian Farmer genetics are also shown to be closer to the modern Near East than to a majority of Europe.

[Tongio]

Then why are more Germans blonde than Greeks or Sardinians who have a substantial amount more of Anatolian Farmer ancestry as opposed to Germans with more Steppe and WHG? I’m sorry, but this does not add up accurately.
Anatolian Farmer genetics are also shown to be closer to the modern Near East than to a majority of Europe.

Can i bê more clearly ironic? Its pretty clear i dont agree with those complexed terroni.

[Dimitri159]

Can i bê more clearly ironic? Its pretty clear i dont agree with those complexed terroni.

Oops. Ngl I am guilty of stopping at the mention of eurogenes, so I missed the irony part.