Where did haplogroup E1b1b in Europeans come from?

[Bobby Martnen]

Apparently the E haplogroup originated in North Africa but this specific subclade is found mostly in Southern Europeans. Does anyone know how it got there, and why only this subclade?

(I think some male ancestors on my mother's side may have had it)

[Kouros]

Came from Somalis that took refuge in the balkans

[Freeroostah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu4OzKKlU9o

[Norka]

Balkaniggers

[Danaan]

Maybe it has something to do with Cardial Neolithic because there is one ~7500 years old sample of E1b1b1a1b1 from Croatia (along with C1a2, though C1a2 certainly existed in Europe since the Paleolithic).
Currenty, it isn't certain.

[Kelmendasi]

E-V13 and possibly a few other clades arrived via late Neolithic farmers whilst some clades like E-M81 came with later Roman, Moorish etc input

[Cristiano viejo]

e1b1 is AFRICAN.

[kingjohn]

e1b1 is AFRICAN.

and whats wrong with that ...... ;)

[Proto-Shaman]

Proto-Turkic sea peoples.

[Cristiano viejo]

and whats wrong with that ...... ;)

Moor.

[Ülev]

e1b1 is AFRICAN.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0d/2010_FIFA_World_Cup.svg/200px-2010_FIFA_World_Cup.svg.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup


https://youtu.be/QC6Uh3c27WE

basically CV is a football fan, so

[kingjohn]

and yet i look much better than many of you r1 gooks ;)

[Cristiano viejo]

and yet i look much better than many of you r1 gooks ;)

You wish.

[kingjohn]

i don't need to wish .... ;)

i look like a man show your face pussy :)

[Cristiano viejo]

i don't need to wish .... ;)

i look like a man show your face pussy :)

You would need seven lifes to pick tha amount of chicks I have picked in my 20s, Jew :mocking:

[kingjohn]

and yet you don't have balls to show your face ..... you hiding behaind the cross
fucking loser ....

[Cristiano viejo]

and yet you don't have balls to show your face ..... you hiding behaind the cross
fucking loser ....

What for, to that a Jew sees my face? :rolleyes: no thanks.

[kingjohn]

excuses
you are not a man
you are a woman and a little shy one .....;)

[Cristiano viejo]

excuses
you are not a man
you are a woman and a little shy one .....;)

Better a woman than an African e1b1 like you :p

[kingjohn]

Better a woman than an African e1b1 like you :p

no......
this african e1b1b at the moment as more balls than you show your face
be a man ....

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Iberians bullying the Jews once again, just like in the 15th century.

[kingjohn]

viriatho let your friend deal with me on his own
stay out of this .....

[Mingle]

E-V13 and possibly a few other clades arrived via late Neolithic farmers whilst some clades like E-M81 came with later Roman, Moorish etc input

Do you know why it has two names: E-V13 and E1b1b?

[Kelmendasi]

Do you know why it has two names: E-V13 and E1b1b?
What do you mean? E-V13 is a subclade of E1b1b, I just decided to break it down as V13 is the only major E1b1b clade in Europe

[Mingle]

What do you mean? E-V13 is a subclade of E1b1b, I just decided to break it down as V13 is the only major E1b1b clade in Europe

Okay, I didn't know it was a subclade xD The two are just used interchangeably so it confused me.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

What we know for certainty is that E1b1b carriers are very prone to criminal activities and Islam: Somalis, Albanians, Kosovars, North-Africans, etc. They are usually very ectomorph too for some reason.

[Ylla]

What we know for certainty is that E1b1b are very prone to criminal activities and Islam: Somalis, Albanians, Kosovars, North-Africans, etc. They are usually very ectomorph too for some reason.
What a stupid thing to say.
Ectomorphs are mostly in iberia mostly gracile meds, not a bad thing though.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

What a stupid thing to say.
Ectomorphs are mostly in iberia mostly gracile meds.

Wrong, Iberians are usually mesomorph and endomorph. Somalis and Kosovars usually look like walking skeletons and have difficulty in putting up some muscle. They are usually very bad at any type of sports unlike Iberians who tend to be quite successful.

[Kelmendasi]

Wrong, Iberians are usually mesomorph and endomorph. Somalis and Kosovars usually look like walking skeletons and have difficulty in putting up some muscle. They are usually very bad at any type of sports unlike Iberians who tend to be quite successful.
Albanians or Dinarids aren't described as ectomorph lol, also Albanians seem to be naturally good at combat sports

[kingjohn]

What a stupid thing to say.
Ectomorphs are mostly in iberia mostly gracile meds, not a bad thing though.

bulshit i am mesomorth
a true e1b1b1 here ...... ;)

[Kelmendasi]

What we know for certainty is that E1b1b carriers are very prone to criminal activities and Islam: Somalis, Albanians, Kosovars, North-Africans, etc. They are usually very ectomorph too for some reason.
What about Serbs, Montenegrins and Greeks? They are high in E-V13 just like Albanians

[Ylla]

Wrong, Iberians are usually mesomorph and endomorph. Somalis and Kosovars usually look like walking skeletons and have difficulty in putting up some muscle. They are usually very bad at any type of sports unlike Iberians who tend to be quite successful.

Iberians are the greatest blah blah. Always the same from you
Ok based on what data? Last time i checked most iberians are gracile med.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

What about Serbs, Montenegrins and Greeks? They are high in E-V13 just like Albanians

Not in the same amounts.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Iberians are the greatest blah blah. Always the same from you
Ok based on what data? Last time i checked most iberians are gracile med.

Based on the same data you used to say that Iberians are Gracile-Med: general perception. Albanians\Kosovars are overwhelmingly skinny-ass dudes.

[Kelmendasi]

Not in the same amounts.
Greeks are around 21% although certain regions such as central Greece are 29% E-V13, Montenegrins are 27%, Serbians are around 20% whilst Albanians are around 27-30% so in general the numbers are similar

[Ylla]

Based on the same data you used to say that Iberians are Gracile-Med: general perception. Albanians\Kosovars are overwhelmingly skinny-ass dudes.

What I said is common knowledge though. You dont look anything special or robust compared to average kosovar guy.

[kingjohn]

Based on the same data you used to say that Iberians are Gracile-Med: general perception. Albanians\Kosovars are overwhelmingly skinny-ass dudes.

there we go again another thread turn into an albanian vs portuguase fight well done :picard2:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

By the way, I've only noticed now who you really are xD Hi Ylla.

[Kelmendasi]

Based on the same data you used to say that Iberians are Gracile-Med: general perception. Albanians\Kosovars are overwhelmingly skinny-ass dudes.
K :rolleyes:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

What I said is common knowledge though. You dont look anything special or robust compared to average kosovar guy.

What I look like or not doesn't necessarily change the fact that Kosovars can't go out on windy days. I have body proportions at least and don't look like a walking broom with a coat hanger on the top of it :laugh:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

K :rolleyes:

I would bet 100 bucks that you are a skinny dude :laugh: Like most Kosovars.

[Kelmendasi]

I would bet 100 bucks that you are a skinny dude :laugh: Like most Kosovars.
K, I'm not a Kosovar Albanian btw

[Cristiano viejo]

no......
this african e1b1b at the moment as more balls than you show your face
be a man ....
Jews are not known for having balls, Natufian boy. Showing the face in internet is everything but showing balls.


What we know for certainty is that E1b1b carriers are very prone to criminal activities and Islam: Somalis, Albanians, Kosovars, North-Africans, etc. They are usually very ectomorph too for some reason.
Dont forget Jews.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

K, I'm not a Kosovar Albanian btw

What's your weight and height? Be honest.

[kingjohn]

Jews are not known for having balls, Natufian boy. Showing the face in internet is everything but showing balls.


Dont forget Jews.

but i am not a pure jew my dear
i am 1/4 bulgarian and believe me that if i met in you in real life
it wouldn't be nice ......

p.s
still excuses show your face looser ;)

[Ylla]

What I look like or not doesn't necessarily change the fact that Kosovars can't go out on windy days. I have body proportions at least and don't look like a walking broom with a coat hanger on the top of it :laugh:

Well not just you personally but any Iberians. We have all types but meso is the most common body type among Albanian males. I dont know about Somalians lol

[Cristiano viejo]

but i am not a pure jew my dear
i am 1/4 bulgarian and believe me that if i met in you in real life
it wouldn't be nice ......
Oh, did I touch your kike nerves? seriously? damn, it was very easy :icon_lol:


p.s
still excuses show your face looser ;)
Not for you Jew :mocking:

[kingjohn]

you didn't touch anything i am just telling you who i am
know your enemy lol
but first show your photo and stop hiding behaind the cross.

p.s

excuses as usual fucking looser ...

[Freeroostah]

What we know for certainty is that E1b1b carriers are very prone to criminal activities and Islam: Somalis, Albanians, Kosovars, North-Africans, etc. They are usually very ectomorph too for some reason.

You can’t be an E1b Balkanigga and an ectomorph at the same time. That’s oxymoron haha

If you wanna see real ectomorphs go to the Med islands. It’s full of J2 Gracile midgets


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Cristiano viejo]

you didn't touch anything i am just telling you who i am
know your enemy lol
but first show your photo and stop hiding behaind the cross.

p.s

excuses as usual fucking looser ...

Are you gay? I insist too much to see the photos of other men... do you do the same in real life, Jew?

[kingjohn]

no i am not , i see you are obsesed with jews like rethel
who the fuck are you to tell me what to write on the islam in germany thread
you motherfucker .....

[Cristiano viejo]

no i am not , i see you are obsesed with jews like rethel
who the fuck are you to tell me what to write on the islam in germany thread
you motherfucker .....

Did not you call me antisemite? wow xD

[kingjohn]

Did not you call me antisemite? wow xD

i don't care what the fuck you are
think for yourself
now to the topic :
you gave a list of muslims in each country in europe
and i replayed that for the germans whch are 78 milion there is no problem to handle those immigrants
and than you say to shut up jew what is the conection not relevant at all . :picard1:

[Drawing-slim]

Jesus was E1b1b, for sure.

[GiCa]

Jews are more successful people than average Spanish is

In just few day as they are the master of banks and market they could put your Spain country in misery through the virtual economy.

You don t know with whom you are speaking.

BTW Cristiano Viejo is way darker than you. I ve seen his Pic. If this idiotic light and dark ears matter but it does matter in the mind of Cristiano Viejo. So yes you are lighter than him.

Don t play attention to theese people. They are not even dign of a spit in the face

[Cristiano viejo]

i don't care what the fuck you are
think for yourself
now to the topic :
you gave a list of muslims in each country in europe
and i replayed that for the germans whch are 78 milion there is no problem to handle those immigrants
and than you say to shut up jew what is the conection not relevant at all . :picard1:

I replied you because your answer was extremely anti-German. Typical Jewish.

[kingjohn]

I replied you because your answer was extremely anti-German. Typical Jewish.

so now you defend germany bravo :clap2:
like they fucking need you the little spaniard ..... :rotfl:

p.s
gica afcorse i am lighter than him because i am 1/4 bulgarian and they have slavic blood
slavs are light ....
my grandmother was blond blue eyed so some genes pass .. :)

[GiCa]

so now you defend germany bravo :clap2:
like they fucking need you the little spaniard ..... :rotfl:

p.s
gica afcorse i am lighter than him because i am 1/4 bulgarian and they have slavic blood
slavs are light ....
my grandmother was blond blue eyed so some genes pass .. :)

You are way lighter than him. Trust me. ;)

I find disgusting all this hate speech with 0 reasons.

Israel is the most advanced country in the Middle East. Meaning that they had the courage and the ball to built a super technological country in a land previously inhabited by culturally barbarian people and desertic even.

[kingjohn]

You are way lighter than him. Trust me. ;)

I find disgusting all this hate speech with 0 reasons.

Israel is the most advanced country in the Middle East. Meaning that they had the courage and the ball to built a super technological country in a land previously inhabited by culturally barbarian people and desertic even.

afcorse it is disgusting but in this forum there are disgusting people who
hate with no reson
but you need to remember that this site is damn racist
after stormfront and skadi it is not far behind .
they pay in this forum to much attention to racial classification
like it is the 20th centery nazi germany schools
when in reality the focus should be on dna instead .....

[GiCa]

Nobel prizes in all fields

Spanish near to nil.

People of hebraic culture : long infinite list.

[GiCa]

afcorse it is disgusting but in this forum there are disgusting people who
hate with no reson
but you need to remember that this site is damn racist
after stormfront and skadi it is not far behind .
they pay in this forum to much attention to racial classification
like it is the 20th centery nazi germany schools
when in reality the focus should be on dna instead .....

Thing is that someone can be genuine curious like me on human adaption and genotype. But yes to a good bunch
of people here they should close the account.

On Germany thing I think that I. I gratin on great number can be harmful because in short time integration is difficult and I think that most Muslims, at least those who come in europe have a not integrale cultural background.

I have no Muslim friends for example, apart some good cultured Iranians that I just know. Not because I Don t want but because it s impissible

[kingjohn]

Nobel prizes in all fields

Spanish near to nil.

People of hebraic culture : long infinite list.

they are good in sports :)
but when it come to brain i will put longbow in the field :)

[Cristiano viejo]

Jews are more successful people than average Spanish is
No, they are not. They even did not have an own country until few decades ago :thumb001:
They are so succesuful that they were expelled and massacred in all the European countries :rolleyes: such succes..


BTW Cristiano Viejo is way darker than you. I ve seen his Pic. If this idiotic light and dark ears matter but it does matter in the mind of Cristiano Viejo. So yes you are lighter than him.
No, he is not lighter than me nor you have seen my pictures, feel free to post it. It is you who is dark and with a hooked nose (you look MENA really).


so now you defend germany bravo :clap2:
like they fucking need you the little spaniard ..... :rotfl:

p.s
gica afcorse i am lighter than him because i am 1/4 bulgarian and they have slavic blood
slavs are light ....
my grandmother was blond blue eyed so some genes pass .. :)
jajajajjajajajajajaj

[GiCa]

they are good in sports :)
but when it come to brain i will put longbow in the field :)

There are some sport in wich they had a great tradition. Like basket or sailing judging by the medals.

But on scientific fields they almost never contributed to the human progress.

While people of hebraic culture yes

[GiCa]

No, they are not. They even did not have an own country until few decades ago :thumb001:
They are so succesuful that they were expelled and massacred in all the European countries :rolleyes: such succes..


No, he is not lighter than me nor you have seen my pictures, feel free to post it. It is you who is dark and with a hooked nose (you look MENA really).


jajajajjajajajajajaj

They are so successful that they own almost all the world banks. While you not.

[Teucer]

Are you gay? I insist too much to see the photos of other men... do you do the same in real life, Jew?

Why are you so unapologetically antisemitic?

[kingjohn]

so post your picture mr ubermench lets see :runs:

we were masscared because of jelous assholes like you
in america jews succed more than spaniards gica is right
i am not saying all jews are smart but some are and very gifted and gave a lot to this world
while you left mexico with dead bodies well done :clap:

[GiCa]

Why are you so unapologetically antisemitic?

It seems a characteristic of Hispanic people

I know because I worked with tourists in a multinational who assumed also foreign people, and I had a Spanish college that was super racist. Indeed they fired out her.

Also spending times on this forum and having contact also with the two tourism work I did I know well the imperceptible mentalities of many ethnicities

[Cristiano viejo]

They are so successful that they own almost all the world banks. While you not.
Sure :rolleyes:

Now post my picture, you hooked nose spaguetti, come on.


Why are you so unapologetically antisemitic?
I am not :)


so post your picture mr ubermench lets see :runs:

we were masscared because of jelous assholes like you
in america jews succed more than spaniards gica is right
i am not saying all jews are smart but some are and very gifted and gave a lot to this world
while you left mexico with dead bodies well done :clap:
Cool story, Jew :thumb001:

[kingjohn]

he is brave behind the keyboard
you act like a true pusy
not showing your face what is there to hide
i want to see that if i will go to spain to where should i go first before going to barcelona or madrid :machine gun:

[GiCa]

I never understood the aggressive behavior of some formers here on Jewish. They ate not the one who are making terrorists attack in europe like a certain subculture of a religion of the middle east.

Plus they always never broken the balls to Christians trying to convert them. They with reason do their own without disturbing you.

[StonyArabia]

Ethiopians and Somalis

[kingjohn]

I never understood the aggressive behavior of some formers here on Jewish. They ate not the one who are making terrorists attack in europe like a certain subculture of a religion of the middle east.

Plus they always never broken the balls to Christians trying to convert them. They with reason do their own without disturbing you.

i also don't
know it is a relgious thing first you can see that both he and rethel { probably damn relgious catholic}
are very extreme anti- jewish maybe there i.q is very low i don't know .... :)

[Cristiano viejo]

he is brave behind the keyboard
you act like a true pusy
not showing your face what is there to hide
i want to see that if i will go to spain to where should i go first before going to barcelona or madrid :machine gun:

What??? to Spain??? :lol: you dont have balls to come to Spain to search a fight, you Jew :thumb001:

[kingjohn]

why not :)
again i am 1/4 bulgarian and bel;ieve me if i saw you in
real life i would fucking kill you but i dont know how you look like
again you are a pussy spaniard :)

[GiCa]

i also don't
know it is a relgious thing first you can see that both he and rethel { probably damn relgious catholic}
are very extreme anti- jewish maybe there i.q is very low i don't know .... :)

It s not religion but like always the history has teached us: Envy of economic success

[Cristiano viejo]

why not :)
again i am 1/4 bulgarian and bel;ieve me if i saw you in
real life i would fucking kill you but i dont know how you look like
again you are a pussy spaniard :)
Last time Jews were in Spain they were not as brave as you, internet warrior :laugh:

[kingjohn]

It s not religion but like always the history has teached us: Envy of economic success

but i didn't do nothing personaly to christano
so it must be relgious thing ......
and i am also not a bank manager infact i am poor .....

[GiCa]

but i didn't do nothing personaly to christano
so it must be relgious thing ......
and i am also not a bank manager infact i am poor .....

He s just envious of the general Economic Success of ebraic culture

[Cristiano viejo]

He s just envious of the general Economic Success of ebraic culture

Super envious :lol:

Post my picture, hooked nose spaguetti :p

[GiCa]

Super envious :lol:

Post my picture, hooked nose spaguetti :p

Your pictures is that of a shit.
Her s your face
https://oscarferrari.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/merda1.jpg

[kingjohn]

Your pictures is that of a shit.
Her s your face
https://oscarferrari.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/merda1.jpg

he talled me that i need 7 life cicles for the woman he have been in his 20's
but if he look like that i doubt it :coffee:

[StonyArabia]

https://s33.postimg.org/jstssal7z/d-arab-watches-d-movie-eating-popcorn-render-wearing-glasses-559.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ma5jzk54b/)

[GiCa]

I Don t like to offend. And somewhat a slightly only slightly feel horrible to having offended him. As it's not my being offending freely people.

But I feel disgusted by many of his posts wrote by him all along this forum

[kingjohn]

https://s33.postimg.org/jstssal7z/d-arab-watches-d-movie-eating-popcorn-render-wearing-glasses-559.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ma5jzk54b/)

i am glad you having fun sit back my dear ;)
make sure the popcorn is next to you

[kingjohn]

Last time Jews were in Spain they were not as brave as you, internet warrior :laugh:

i don't care what was before in 1500 spain believe me that with good adrenalin
your mother wouldn't even recognize you
but pleas lets make the fight only you and me
don't call viriatho your friend to help you one on one ...... ;)

[Kelmendasi]

Jesus was E1b1b, for sure.
Maybe J1 or J2 as well

[Principe Azzurro]

What??? to Spain??? :lol: you dont have balls to come to Spain to search a fight, you Jew :thumb001:

Bro your a bitch, stop talking shit, your a loser

[Principe Azzurro]

For in E in Europe it really depends the clade, same came through North African, some through the Levant and some possibly came through Turkey during Chalco/Bronze Age

[Principe Azzurro]

Last time Jews were in Spain they were not as brave as you, internet warrior :laugh:

Garbage piece of shit, how can you be proud of the INQUistion fucking bitch

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Albanians, Jews and GiCa all in one thread :D This looks promising.

[Longobarda]

Last time Jews were in Spain they were not as brave as you, internet warrior :laugh:

They are still there. Mixed with you all. All of you have jew blood

[Longobarda]

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-M81.gif

E-M81 is found at an average frequency of 45% in the Maghreb and Libya, with peaks at over 60% in Tunisia as well as central and southern Morocco. It is especially common among Berber populations all over Northwest Africa, including the Tuaregs. Frequencies of over 75% have been reported among the Tuaregs of Burkina Faso and Mali.
In Europe, M81 is most common in Portugal (8%), Spain (7%), as well as in France (0-6%) and Italy (0-4%), where strong regional variations are observed. M81 is especially common in western Iberia, notably Extremadura (15.5%), Andalusia (13.5%), southern Portugal (11%), the Canary Islands (11%), north-west Castille (10%) and Galicia (10%). The highest percentage of E-M81 in Europe is found among the Pasiegos (30%, n=101), an isolated community living in the mountains of Cantabria.
Note the resemblance between the distribution of E-M81 and the African admixture from the Dodecad project.
Origins & History

Nowadays E-M81 is the dominant paternal lineage among Northwest Africans, and particularly Tuaregs, Mountain Moroccans, Tunisians and Libyans. Outside North Africa, M81 is far more frequent in parts of Iberia than anywhere else in Europe or the Near East

[Longobarda]

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-M123.gif

The highest frequencies of E-M123 are observed in Jordan (31% near the Dead Sea), Ethiopia (5-20%), Israel/Palestine (10-12% among the Palestinians and the Jews), among the Bedouins (8%), in Lebanon (5%), in North Africa (3-5%), Anatolia (3-6%) and southern Europe, particularly Italy (1 to 8%), in the Spanish region of Extremadura (7%), and the Balearic islands of Ibiza and Minorca (average 10%).

[Longobarda]

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

Assimilation of Neolithic European E-V13 by the Indo-Europeans

For many years the vast majority of academics have assumed that E-V13 and other E1b1b lineages came to the Balkans from the southern Levant via Anatolia during the Neolithic, and that the high frequency of E-V13 was caused by a founder effect among the colonisers. This theory has it that E1b1b people were associated with the development of Neolithic lifestyle and the advent of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent and its earliest diffusion to Southeast Europe (Thessalian Neolithic) and Mediterranean Europe (Cardium Pottery culture). The testing of ancient DNA from the Natufian culture (Mesolithic Levant) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic Levant confirmed a high incidence of haplogroup E1b1b in that region.

Nowadays E-V13 is the only Mediterranean haplogroup consistently found throughout Europe, even in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Baltic countries, which are conspicuous by the absence of other Neolithic haplogroups like G2a (bar the Indo-European G2a-Z1815), J1 and T (except in Estonia).

In fact, it has been calculated that E-V13 emerged from E-M78 some 7,800 years ago, when Neolithic farmers were advancing into the Balkans and the Danubian basin. Furthermore, all the modern members of E-V13 descend from a common ancestor who lived approximately 5,500 years ago, and all of them also descend from a later common ancestor who carried the CTS5856 mutation. That ancestor would have lived about 4,100 years ago, during the Bronze Age.

In just a few centuries, that very minor E-V13 lineage had started an expansion process that would turn it into one of Europe's most widespread paternal lineages and reach far beyond the borders of Europe itself, also spreading to the eastern edge of the Mediterranean, the Caucasus, Kurdistan, Iran, and even Siberia.

This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe.

What is surprising with E-V13 is that it is as common in R1a-dominant as in R1b-dominant countries. R1a Indo-European tribes are associated with the Corded Ware culture, which spanned across Northeast Europe, Scandinavia and the northern half of Central Europe. R1b tribes invaded the Balkans, the southern half of Central Europe, and joined up with Corded Ware people in what is now Germany, the Czech Republic and western Poland.

The eastern advance of the Corded Ware culture eventually gave rise to the Sintashta culture in the Ural region, which is the ancestral culture of the Indo-Iranian branch of Indo-Europeans. E-V13's presence in this culture would explain why modern Iranians and Kurds possess E-V13, in addition to R1a-Z93 and R1b-Z2103. E-V13 has been found as far away as central Siberia, near the Altai, a region also known to have been settled by Bronze Age Indo-Europeans.

Due to the scarcity of full genomic sequences available from the Balkans, it is not yet clear when E-V13 expanded in that region. The Indo-European migrations would certainly have brought some E-V13 early on, from circa 2500 BCE. But the history of the region is so complex that there might be many separate branches of E-V13 that each came with a different invasion (e.g. Iranic tribes, La Tène Celts, Romans, Goths, Slavs). The first Indo-European migration to Greece was that of the Mycenaeans from c. 1650 BCE. The Dorians from Central Europe followed from c. 1200 BCE. Both could have brought different subclades of E-V13, and a founder effect or the phenomenon of elite dominance among the ruling invaders might have caused a fast growth of E-V13 lineage in Late Bronze Age and Iron Age Greece.

There are at least three distinct sources of E-V13 in Italy. The first would be the Bronze Age Italic tribes from Central Europe, who in all logic would have possessed at least some E-V13 lineages before they invaded the Italian peninsula. Proto-Italics would have been a predominantly R1b-U152 tribe, but also carried a minority of E-V13, G2a-L140 (L13, L1264 and Z1816 subclades) and J2a1-L70 (PF5456 and Z2177 subclades).

The second would be the ancient Greeks, who heavily colonized southern Italy from the 9th century BCE until the Roman conquest in the 3rd century BCE.

The third are the Goths. As a Germanic tribe they might have carried a small percentage of E-V13. But that percentage very certainly increased after spending several centuries in Central and Southeast Europe and assimilating Proto-Slavs and Balkanic people before invading Italy. The Goths settled over all the Italian peninsula. They would have brought typically Germanic lineages like I1 and R1b-U106, but also the Proto-Slavic R1a-CTS1211.

An Indo-European dispersal of V13 subclades would not only explain why E-V13 is present in places like Finland, northwest Russia or Siberia, where Neolithic farmers had a negligible impact, but also why E-V13 is so conspicuously lacking from the Basque country and (central) Sardinia, the two regions of Europe with the highest Neolithic ancestry.

The small presence of E-V13 in the Near East could be better explained by the extremely long Greek presence in the eastern Mediterranean from the time of Alexander the Great until the end of the Byzantine domination over the region during the Middle Ages. It would be unthinkable that over 1,500 years of Hellenisation and Byzantine rule in Anatolia and the Levant didn't leave any genetic trace. In Anatolia, E-V13 is found mostly in the western third of the country, the region that used to belong to ancient Greece

[GiCa]

Lol.. Now Cristiano Viejo would seriously shit that shit in his pant.

Very hilarious for someone like him that doesn't t like that hapligroup

[Longobarda]

Lol.. Now Cristiano Viejo would seriously shit that shit in his pant.

Very hilarious for someone like him that doesn't t like that hapligroup

He perfectly knows already. But he thinks that if nobody posts these charts he will convince everybody that it is not true.....

[GiCa]

Is there something more stupid than hating an hapligroup?

It s very Drama-Comic

[GiCa]

E-M81 peack in Maghreb is very curiously confirmating.. Well if hapligroups can explain ancient migrations without founder effects maybe

But anyway Curiously it s proved that West Mediterranean Genes are trans Ibero-Maghrebian as they peak in Basques, (Sardinians too) but also in Maghreb where people there have more than 20% west med genes. This is shown in all those k15, k10,... Kx tests from dienekes and eurogenes

So yes, what the Men's Sarda, Cristiano Viejo and all that self-elected special gang claims of pure European looks is bullshits as those west mediterranean Genes are not European but trans euro-maghrebi

[Cristiano viejo]

They are still there. Mixed with you all. All of you have jew blood

We are not Italians, the Semitic "European" people.

Not surprise why Italians cluster with Jews.

[Cristiano viejo]

Garbage piece of shit, how can you be proud of the INQUistion fucking bitch

Silence, Jew. You are luckily that you dont live some centuries ago :laugh:

[Sikeliot]

Iberians have the Berber subclades. South Italians typically have the Balkan one.

[Drawing-slim]

I never understood the aggressive behavior of some formers here on Jewish. They ate not the one who are making terrorists attack in europe like a certain subculture of a religion of the middle east.

Plus they always never broken the balls to Christians trying to convert them. They with reason do their own without disturbing you.
Are you for real? You better be joking I say.
Jews are solely responsible for what we call today clash of civilizations. It’s the greatest revenge in history where Jews have orchestrated and executed to an mastery level. Getting Europeans and Arabs in an all out deadly war.
personally if I was a Jew I would feel arrogantly superior, “sitting back laughing @ what a spectacular revenge I pullled off”.

[kingjohn]

you all give to the jews much more power than what they
have if any at all.:picard2:

[Drawing-slim]

you all give to the jews much more power than what they
have if any at all.:picard2:

Listen, during WW2 Jews suffered in the hands of Christians Europeans and Muslims. This was very recently in historical terms, Jews now have achieved their master plan of revenge, weakening and destroying two evil rivals without fighting a war with them while Jews become more stable under their strict rules.

[kingjohn]

Listen, during WW2 Jews suffered in the hands of Christians Europeans and Muslims. This was very recently in historical terms, Jews now have achieved their master plan of revenge, weakening and destroying two evil rivals without fighting a war with them while Jews become more stable under their strict rules.

indid but the revenge will not be here it will be in the next life :wink
your theory that we manipulate between christian and muslims like what are you calim
that we stand in the side while they butcher one another ?
agian you do understand that there was never a jewish prisedent in usa land of the free but there is a limit

from where are all those conspiracies that jews rule the world and all this shit no base at all
give me proofs :?

[GiCa]

We are in the fantascientific field. How can someone belive in such complot theories?

[Longobarda]

We are not Italians, the Semitic "European" people.

Not surprise why Italians cluster with Jews.

Hahahha you wish. Yours sephardic jews were not all expelled from Spain. As you PERFECTLY KNOW, many converted or pretended to convert to christianism in order to keep their goods. Many kept their original surnames, many others adopted "christian" surnames. Maybe you are one of them and you don't know.
Still TODAY, Israel calls Spain SEPHARAD.

[kingjohn]

We are in the fantascientific field. How can someone belive in such complot theories?

1}if you are a jelous asshole you can ......
2}if you are with weak Character that brainwashed very easily
3}and the most importent if you are simply a loser who didn't reach nothing in life and you look for hairy goat

[Longobarda]

Haplogroup J in Northern Italy.

Number of people examined: 699. J-M267: 2; J-M172: 20 Total northern Italy people with haplogroup J: 22 on 699

This is why you always call me "semithic"?
And don't forget that we never threw out the sephardic people coming from Spain. Neither the popes did!!
TRUE SPANISH CITIZENS DISCRIMINATED AND PERSECUTED BY NAZI-CATHOLIC KINGS OF SPAIN.
They still live in some determined cities like Ferrara (Northern Italy), Venice (Northern Italy), Livorno (central Italy) and Palermo (Sicily).

Cretino viejo one day will discover that his ancestors were some Abrabanel or Bejarano or Almunia and will hide himself underground

[Cristiano viejo]

Iberians have the Berber subclades. South Italians typically have the Balkan one.


Hahahha you wish. Yours sephardic jews were not all expelled from Spain. As you PERFECTLY KNOW, many converted or pretended to convert to christianism in order to keep their goods. Many kept their original surnames, many others adopted "christian" surnames. Maybe you are one of them and you don't know.
Still TODAY, Israel calls Spain SEPHARAD.

When Sephardis were expelled many of them finished in Italy. Jews of Bologna were and are famous.

I insist, it is not coincidence that Jews cluster with Italians.

[Longobarda]

When Sephardis were expelled many of them finished in Italy. Jews of Bologna were and are famous.

I insist, it is not coincidence that Jews cluster with Italians.

Jews of Bologna are famous for what? Sephardis ended everywere, in Morocco, in Turkey (the illuminated Soliman the magnificent understood that they were cult, clever and rich), in Greece (Thessaloníki), in Israel, in Portugal (then expelled as well), in Italy (cities that I've already mentioned before), in Holland, in France, In Poland, in Germany, in Switzerland, in Hungary, in England, in Russia..... etc. etc. not only in Italy. BUT MANY OF THEM REMAINED IN SPAIN with surnames taken by the "christians" (christians like you, that means ZERO christians).

STOP CALLING YOUR KINGS ISABEL AND FERNANDO "CATHOLIC". THEY WERE NEITHER CATHOLIC NOR HUMAN BEING.

EVEN THE POPES DID NOT EXPEL THE JEWS!!!!!

p.s. the "italian" haplo J is NEOLITHIC, not jew. Of course, if you go and tale samples from people of Ferrara or Livorno, the probability that you find "jew" haplogroup is high, those were cities historically hosting the sephardic jews of Spain.

[GiCa]

When Sephardis were expelled many of them finished in Italy. Jews of Bologna were and are famous.

I insist, it is not coincidence that Jews cluster with Italians.

we are happy that some of the greatest italian geniouses on scientific field were italian-jewish


it s you who are fucked up and inferior

[Drawing-slim]

indid but the revenge will not be here it will be in the next life :wink
your theory that we manipulate between christian and muslims like what are you calim
that we stand in the side while they butcher one another ?
agian you do understand that there was never a jewish prisedent in usa land of the free but there is a limit

from where are all those conspiracies that jews rule the world and all this shit no base at all
give me proofs :?

Nobody singlehandedly rules the world but the power is shared. Jews are overly represented in the power throne.
Who rules the world? US China Russia Saudi Arabia isreal. Who rules US more or less? Jews. So who rules the world?
As I said, if I was Jewish I would feel arrogantly superior at this time in history.

[Cristiano viejo]

Jews of Bologna are famous for what? Sephardis ended everywere, in Morocco, in Turkey (the illuminated Soliman the magnificent understood that they were cult, clever and rich), in Greece (Thessaloníki), in Israel, in Portugal (then expelled as well), in Italy (cities that I've already mentioned before), in Holland, in France, In Poland, in Germany, in Switzerland, in Hungary, in England, in Russia..... etc. etc. not only in Italy. BUT MANY OF THEM REMAINED IN SPAIN with surnames taken by the "christians" (christians like you, that means ZERO christians).

STOP CALLING YOUR KINGS ISABEL AND FERNANDO "CATHOLIC". THEY WERE NEITHER CATHOLIC NOR HUMAN BEING.

EVEN THE POPES DID NOT EXPEL THE JEWS!!!!!

p.s. the "italian" haplo J is NEOLITHIC, not jew. Of course, if you go and tale samples from people of Ferrara or Livorno, the probability that you find "jew" haplogroup is high, those were cities historically hosting the sephardic jews of Spain.

This is not what genetic and history say, Terrona :thumb001:

Cities historically hostil to Jews? you are truly ignorant. Learn a bit about the historical Sephardi Jewish community of Bologna :thumb001:

The only cities historically hostil to Jews... were those where Spaniards ruled, analphabet :lol:

[GiCa]

This is not what genetic and history say, Terrona :thumb001:

Cities historically hostil to Jews? you are truly ignorant. Learn a bit about the historical Sephardi Jewish community of Bologna :thumb001:

The only cities historically hostil to Jews... were those where Spaniards ruled, analphabet :lol:

it s very annoying that a foreigner like you, use the term "Terrona". wich you use impropely and don t know the meaning.

very Analfabet indeed

[kingjohn]

Nobody singlehandedly rules the world but the power is shared. Jews are overly represented in the power throne.
Who rules the world? US China Russia Saudi Arabia isreal. Who rules US more or less? Jews. So who rules the world?
As I said, if I was Jewish I would feel arrogantly superior at this time in history.

Jews not rule the usa it is a lie the fact you going to tell it few more time
doesn't make it correct
Jews maybe control Hollywood that's it there was never a jewish president to the usa it is a fact you can't ignore
i said it before like many other think the Jews have much more power than what they actuality have .


p.s
and christiano
Jews cluster with sicilian and calabrians not with Tuscan or north Italians
the ethnicity of longbarda and gica ...... :picard2:

[Leto]

Nobody singlehandedly rules the world but the power is shared. Jews are overly represented in the power throne.
Who rules the world? US China Russia Saudi Arabia isreal. Who rules US more or less? Jews. So who rules the world?
As I said, if I was Jewish I would feel arrogantly superior at this time in history.
I was quite biased towards Dr. David Duke, but after watching this interview with Alex Jones (who himself rejects the Jewish conspiracy and disagrees with Duke) I had a feeling that Duke sounded more convincing than Jones. And I still don't think it's only them to blame. But they have certainly been involved in the liberal/cultural Marxist movement pretty actively.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPa1wLvCovE&t=3729s

[Leto]

Back to the topic: I think the haplogroup is mainly Neolithic, but in the southernmost places it might as well be of medieval Arab origin.

[Drawing-slim]

Jews not rule the usa it is a lie the fact you going to tell it few more time
doesn't make it correct
Jews maybe control Hollywood that's it there was never a jewish president to the usa it is a fact you can't ignore
i said it before like many other think the Jews have much more power than what they actuality have .
There no American president that will be sworn in office without sworn loyalty to isreal first.
Isreali prime minister held meeting and speech in congress without Obama’s approval nor invitation, which is unprecedented in history of any country. So who owns the US?
It Germany not Britain, not Italy, no other country in the world has more power and influence on US like isreal does.

[GiCa]

Jews not rule the usa it is a lie the fact you going to tell it few more time
doesn't make it correct
Jews maybe control Hollywood that's it there was never a jewish president to the usa it is a fact you can't ignore
i said it before like many other think the Jews have much more power than what they actuality have .


p.s
and christiano
Jews cluster with sicilian and calabrians not with Tuscan or north Italians
the ethnicity of longbarda and gica ...... :picard2:

even if they clustered with more northern italians i don t see where is the problem.

[kingjohn]

Back to the topic: I think the haplogroup is mainly Neolithic, but in the southernmost places it might as well be of medieval Arab origin.

agree e-v13 neolithic in europe a
and e-m81 moorish in iberia
and e-m123 arab/ roman jews

[kingjohn]

e-v68 the ancestor of e-m78 and also e-v13 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68 :)

e-z827 the ancestor of both e-z830 and e-L19
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-Z827 :)

[DarknessWin]

Sea Peoples and maybe Thracians

sons of Goliath

[DarknessWin]

Ethiopians and Somalis

Ethiopians and Somalis never came to Europe ,
the only african genes in Europe found in south Spain and south italy and
they have not EV13 (the only one exist in Europe).

EV13 can found mostly in Balkans and have 0% African genes ,
Eupedia write that is came with indoeuropeans

[Principe Azzurro]

Silence, Jew. You are luckily that you dont live some centuries ago :laugh:

Stfu bitch, learn how to read

[DarknessWin]

Balkaniggers
Russian R1a Left vs Balkanigga EV13 right

https://tallguysfree.com/upload/2017/06/05/20170605141912-c9fe4647.jpg

[Norka]

Russian R1a Left vs Balkanigga EV13 right

https://tallguysfree.com/upload/2017/06/05/20170605141912-c9fe4647.jpg

Are you trying to offend me you stupid monkey I'm E-V13

[GiCa]

^ lol

[kingjohn]

Sea Peoples and maybe Thracians

sons of Goliath

indid
you know what funny the ramses the guy that actuley won them in egypt is e1b1a { some in the net claim he was e-v22 though}
small world .....
e-v13 is european
e-m81 is moorish and e-m123 my clade is jew/arab thats how it goes these are the rules :)

[Taizhou]

Hahahha you wish. Yours sephardic jews were not all expelled from Spain. As you PERFECTLY KNOW, many converted or pretended to convert to christianism in order to keep their goods. Many kept their original surnames, many others adopted "christian" surnames. Maybe you are one of them and you don't know.
Still TODAY, Israel calls Spain SEPHARAD.

Oh wow, you're quite informative!

[kingjohn]

just did k25 test in gene plazza i score 0% iberian
that explain everything and why i don't get very well with the iberians in this
forum it is genetic :rotfl:

[Longobarda]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Longobarda https://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4810100#post4810100) Jews of Bologna are famous for what? Sephardis ended everywere, in Morocco, in Turkey (the illuminated Soliman the magnificent understood that they were cult, clever and rich), in Greece (Thessaloníki), in Israel, in Portugal (then expelled as well), in Italy (cities that I've already mentioned before), in Holland, in France, In Poland, in Germany, in Switzerland, in Hungary, in England, in Russia..... etc. etc. not only in Italy. BUT MANY OF THEM REMAINED IN SPAIN with surnames taken by the "christians" (christians like you, that means ZERO christians).

STOP CALLING YOUR KINGS ISABEL AND FERNANDO "CATHOLIC". THEY WERE NEITHER CATHOLIC NOR HUMAN BEING.

EVEN THE POPES DID NOT EXPEL THE JEWS!!!!!

p.s. the "italian" haplo J is NEOLITHIC, not jew. Of course, if you go and tale samples from people of Ferrara or Livorno, the probability that you find "jew" haplogroup is high, those were cities historically hosting the sephardic jews of Spain



This is not what genetic and history say, Terrona :thumb001:

Cities historically hostil to Jews? you are truly ignorant. Learn a bit about the historical Sephardi Jewish community of Bologna :thumb001:

The only cities historically l hostil to Jews... were those where Spaniards ruled, analphabet :lol:

This so DUMB guy calls me ANALPHABET when the only ANALPHABET here is him!! Start learning english stupid chorizo!! TO HOST means have somebody as guest and not to be HOSTILE.

Cristiano viejo is a chorizo viejo y podrido

[Longobarda]

There no American president that will be sworn in office without sworn loyalty to isreal first.
Isreali prime minister held meeting and speech in congress without Obama’s approval nor invitation, which is unprecedented in history of any country. So who owns the US?
It Germany not Britain, not Italy, no other country in the world has more power and influence on US like isreal does.

in my debate with Cristiano Viejo we were not talking about present days Israel, which is not defensible on their behaviour to palestinians, we were talking about medioeval jews in Spain (then partially expelled) who were those who translated greek texts of the most famous philosophers, people with a great culture that could cohabit peacefully with christians and muslims in many cities of Spain, but specially in Toledo. That era was brilliant from a cultural point of view but Cristiano Viejo who is racist hates both arabs and jews because he thinks that spaniards are a superior race. Which is not true at all.

[GiCa]

you may be wrong i think he meant Hostile.. and not to host


but yes, he understood wrongly

he understood that you wrote host as hostile


btw it seems worst christian fanatism in the world was in spain. no one reached the level of inquisition except them

[Longobarda]

you may be wrong i think he meant Hostile.. and not to host


but yes, he understood wrongly

he understood that you wrote host as hostile


btw it seems worst christian fanatism in the world was in spain. no one reached the level of inquisition except them

He does not know english. That's it. HOSTED is not HOSTILE. The first is a verb "TO HOST" in past tense third plural person. The second is an adjective!!
But he is such an arrogant person that he calls me "analphabet" ....... very negative guy

[kingjohn]

http://community.haplozone.net/

http://www.haplozone.net/e3b/project

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/e-3b/activity-feed :)

[Linebacker]

https://youtu.be/pRpeEdMmmQ0

[kingjohn]

https://youtu.be/pRpeEdMmmQ0


common :thumb001:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMPjkfCGz2k

we were in the levant from the beginning of time you are confusing with e1b1a dude

Ancient DNA
According to the genetic analyses done on six Natufian remains from Northern Israel, the Natufians carried the Y-DNA haplogroup E-Z830, a slightly upwind clade of E-M123 (and therefore ancestral to it).[1] The Natufians were one of the first settled peoples in the world and may have contributed to the domestication of certain crops, and thus the advent of agriculture. The discovery of E-Z830 (without other clades) suggests an indigenous presence in Canaan and Israel that predates all other clades, which are not known to have existed in the region at the time (10,000 years before present). E-M123 is thought to have a MRCA about 4,750 years ago,[2] 5-6,000 years after the Natufian (possibly ancestral) remains are from, suggesting a South Levantine origin for M123 and subclades like M34 and M136. :thumb001:

[Kriptc06]

Where did haplogroup E1b1b in Europeans come from?

They came from North Africa and Middle East, as it originated there (E1b1b). The key point is that some of them came a long fucking time ago..

[Excel]

E1b1b is a sub-Saharan closely related to the E1b1a. It must have ended up in Europe via expansion tens of thousands of years ago.


https://www.somalispot.com/attachments/3498/

[Kriptc06]

E1b1b is a sub-Saharan closely related to the E1b1a. It must have ended up in Europe via expansion tens of thousands of years ago.

I'm Ethiopian yo

[Hadouken]

23andme points it to somewhere around Kenya . at least in my case

maybe I interpreted it wrong

[ButlerKing]

E1b1b is a sub-Saharan closely related to the E1b1a. It must have ended up in Europe via expansion tens of thousands of years ago.


https://www.somalispot.com/attachments/3498/

It's not Sub-Saharan. Eb1b only reaches highest frequencies in Afro-Asiatic people like North Africa and east Africa. South Europe, Balkan. There's a Berber tribe where E1b1b reachest 90%.

The East Africans are not Sub-Saharan, they are linguistically like the Arabs and North Africans. By DNA they are also mix a of west Eurasian and Sub-Saharan.

[MercifulServant]

Neolithic farmers

[Cristiano viejo]

Black Neolithic farmers

Fixed.

[MercifulServant]

Fixed.

lol

[Tauromachos]

It was brought by Slavs who came from Egypt.

Slavs at that time had darker tan and spoke a Slavic language that sounded more Middle Eastern.

After the moved to Europe and the Steppes they became more blond and their language also changed"due to the milder climate"

[Kouros]

It was brought by Slavs who came from Egypt.

Slavs at that time had darker tan and spoke a Slavic language that sounded more Middle Eastern.

After the moved to Europe and the Steppes they became more blond and their language also changed"due to the milder climate"

:lmao

[Brutus]

E1b1b was born at Ethiopia/Sudan region around 42,000 years ago, and it has expanded to Egypt around 30,000 years ago and from there to Northwest Africa, West Asia and Europe.

[Wrong]

The builders of Atlantis carried this.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?268495-Atlantis-Real-Location

[Rocinante]

Neolithic.

[Nassbean]

Neolithic.

It's more complex for iberia and italy

[Rocinante]

It's more complex for iberia and italy

Well, there was an E1b (M78) found in the chalcolithic period:


Chalcolithic:

https://indoeuropeo.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/iberia-y-dna-map-chalcolithic.png

[Halgurd]

Either it came directly from N. Africa (not widely accepted) or it came from Anatolia (widely accepted).

[Nassbean]

Well, there was an E1b (M78) found in the chalcolithic period:

and so ? Most e1b1b subclades in iberia are much more recent and were introduced directly by north african settlers

[Nassbean]

Either it came directly from N. Africa (not widely accepted) or it came from Anatolia (widely accepted).

it came from both especially in the case of iberia and italy

[Halgurd]

Problem is that the modern distribution of E-M78 clades is widely centred in West Asia. Populations such as the Druze have very high amounts of E-V13.

The Druze are one of the most ancient communities in West Asia.

but this doesn't seem to match up with aDNA.

[Cristiano viejo]

and so ? Most e1b1b subclades in iberia are much more recent and were introduced directly by north african settlers

You wish.

[Rocinante]

and so ? Most e1b1b subclades in iberia are much more recent and were introduced directly by north african settlers

Here we go, my stubborn brother.

Of the 9% of E1b1 in Iberia, only 4% are M81, this, indeed, were introduced by berbers or by punics/carthagians that had a decent north african admixture.

1 sample of E-M78 in the chalcolithic is more than enough to justify the 4% of E-M78 in Iberia.

[Halgurd]

it came from both especially in the case of iberia and italy

No doubt that is true. My bad I was talking about E-V13 specifically.

[Nassbean]

Here we go, my stubborn brother.

Of the 9% of E1b1 in Iberia, only 4% are M81, this, indeed, were introduced by berbers or by punics/carthagians that had a decent north african admixture.

1 sample of E-M78 in the chalcolithic is more than enough to justify the 4% of E-M78 in Iberia.

here we go let's just pretend the stats are false and that north africans never settled in Iberia ...e1b1b are all from neolithic farmers even though none of the copper age samples had this haplogroup.

[Cristiano viejo]

Here we go, my stubborn brother.

Of the 9% of E1b1 in Iberia, only 4% are M81, this, indeed, were introduced by berbers or by punics/carthagians that had a decent north african admixture.

1 sample of E-M78 in the chalcolithic is more than enough to justify the 4% of E-M78 in Iberia.
Cantabrian Pasiegos are m81 and they have fuxkingly nothing to do with North Africans.

[Nassbean]

Cantabrian Pasiegos are m81 and they have fuxkingly nothing to do with North Africans.

haplogroups have nothing to do with autosomal composition. After 10 years on this site you still know nothing about genetics It tells us a lot about your mental capacities.

[Arch Hades]

Most Europeans who carry E1b1b are E-V13. E-V13 probably expanded from the Balkans.

My guess is E-V13 has been in Europe since at least the Late Bronze age. But it only grew dominant in Hellenistic, Roman and post Roman medieval times.

I think even.in Southeastern Europe it will be quite rare in the Bronze or Iron age. I don't think the Myceneans or Minoans carried much if it.

E-M81 meanwhile is mostly of North African origin. Though I think Hannibal and Hastrubal's armies could have spread it a little long before Islam was invented.

[Cristiano viejo]

haplogroups have nothing to do with autosomal composition. After 10 years on this site you still know nothing about genetics It tells us a lot about your mental capacities.

You are butthurt because Pasiegos break all your brown agenda :thumb001:

[Nassbean]

You are butthurt because Pasiegos break all your brown agenda :thumb001:

ask any spanish member here and you'll see what it means to have e-m81 as haplogroup :thumb001:

[Cristiano viejo]

ask any spanish member here and you'll see what it means to have e-m81 as haplogroup :thumb001:

I don't need to ask, I know it perfectly. Pasiegos are m81 and for your disgrace have nothing to do with your people, they are a super isolated population and never had even contact with Muslim invasors, what invalidates your wannabe claims that haplogroup in Spain comes from you. You wish.

[Adamm]

I don't need to ask, I know it perfectly. Pasiegos are m81 and for your disgrace have nothing to do with your people, they are a super isolated population and never had even contact with Muslim invasors, what invalidates your wannabe claims that haplogroup in Spain comes from you. You wish.

E-M81 (E-M183) is the most typical North-African berber marker you can get, I believe in entered into Spain through 3 periods:

- Phoenician expansion
- Roman expansion
- Muslim expansion

[Nassbean]

I don't need to ask, I know it perfectly. Pasiegos are m81 and for your disgrace have nothing to do with your people, they are a super isolated population and never had even contact with Muslim invasors, what invalidates your wannabe claims that haplogroup in Spain comes from you. You wish.

who says it's linked with the muslim era ? It could be even older than that many berber soldiers settled in their region during ancient times but what should I expect from you ? You don't even know your own history.

[Arch Hades]

What explains E-V13's current distribution? It peaks in Albanians and is common in Northwestern Greeks. Maybe Pyrrhus of Epirus helped spread it in Southern Italy. It then became frequent in Italy and Roman armies and Byzantine civilization could explain the rest.

https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

[Cristiano viejo]

who says it's linked with the muslim era ? It could be even older than that many berber soldiers settled in their region during ancient times but what should I expect from you ? You don't even know your own history.

Well, it is what I am saying, did not come during the Muslim era. You claimed some posts above it is recent. No it is not recent.

Your fantasies about Berber soldiers settling in cantabria, better leave it for your children when you count a tale sleeping them.

Pasiegos look nothing like Berbers, for start with.

[Daos777]

What explains E-V13's current distribution? It peaks in Albanians and is common in Northwestern Greeks. Maybe Pyrrhus of Epirus helped spread it in Southern Italy. It then became frequent in Italy and Roman armies and Byzantine civilization could explain the rest.

https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif

Byzantine explains how it’s found in Tajikistan and Siberia Lol?


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[Faklon]

Alphalla

[Arch Hades]

Byzantium explains how it’s found in Tajikistan? Lol


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I just meant the Byzantines would have helped spread it. Not that wherever it's found is soley due to them.

[Arch Hades]

Well, it is what I am saying, did not come during the Muslim era. You claimed some posts above it is recent. No it is not recent.

Your fantasies about Berber soldiers settling in cantabria, better leave it for your children when you count a tale sleeping them.

Pasiegos look nothing like Berbers, for start with.

What about Numidian kingdom? They were a major factor in the 2nd Punic war.

[Nassbean]

What about Numidian kingdom? They were a major factor in the 2nd Punic war.

you're asking too much for him. He doesn't even know the history of his own region lol

[Daos777]

That's a straw man. I just said the Byzantines would have helped spread it. Not that wherever it's found is soley due to them.

Strawman or not,

your entire premise is wrong. I don’t get why you think that it could only spread with extremely young civilizations like Greeks or Romans. E-V13 and especially it’s predecessor E-M78 is old as fuck. The most logical theory for its distribution is assimilation of this Haplo from neolithics in Europe by Indo-Europeans spreading it with them, that explains why it’s equally found in R1b and R1a dominant countries. And a founder effect in the Balkans making it more common there.

As for how it came into Europe. The Neolithic farmer theory doesn’t hold much water anymore due to an almost complete lack of E1b in Neolithic farmers. E-M78 or not. Which makes sense because Natufians were the only E people to have contact with AHG and ANF but they left no more than around 10 percent of their DNA which means the contact with Natufians was minimal.

Some people say it could have been Cardial ware culture, but their origin in the Levant in large part from Natufians they almost certainly had to have a good chunk of lineages that are downstream E-Z827 but that wasn’t found among them? So it sounds like bullshit to me.

So far the only logical conclusion to E-V13 ancestor in Europe is directly from North Africa from the Capsian culture in the Mesolithic. There have even been some archeological sites in Balkans where those Mesolithic people had close connections to North African Mesolithic culture.

But who the fuck knows for sure. We need more samples.


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[Cristiano viejo]

What about Numidian kingdom? They were a major factor in the 2nd Punic war.

I think yes, Pasiegos are Numidians :lol:

https://static3.eldiariomontanes.es/www/multimedia/201908/15/media/cortadas/valvanuz-dani%20(3)-kBRB-U80991636715jLG-624x385@Diario%20Montanes.jpg

https://img2.rtve.es/v/3304904?w=1600&preview=1443553563024.jpg

https://www.trajetipico.com/uploads/trajes/129-traje-tipico-campurriano.jpg

Seriously, stop searching hilarious stories to justify the North African agenda. It sucks.

[Nassbean]

I think yes, Pasiegos are Numidians :lol:





Seriously, stop searching hilarious stories to justify the North African agenda. It sucks.

what does phenotype has to do with this ? You can be black with a west european haplogroup...Their north african ancestors are from ancient times since then they had all the time to mix with local iberians that's what you can't understand

[Arch Hades]

Strawman or not,

your entire premise is wrong. I don’t get why you think that it could only spread with extremely young civilizations like Greeks or Romans. E-V13 and especially it’s predecessor E-M78 is old as fuck. The most logical theory for its distribution is assimilation of this Haplo from neolithics in Europe by Indo-Europeans spreading it with them, that explains why it’s equally found in R1b and R1a dominant countries. And a founder effect in the Balkans making it more common there.

As for how it came into Europe. The Neolithic farmer theory doesn’t hold much water anymore due to an almost complete lack of E1b in Neolithic farmers. E-M78 or not. Which makes sense because Natufians were the only E people to have contact with AHG and ANF but they left no more than around 10 percent of their DNA which means the contact with Natufians was minimal.

Some people say it could have been Cardial ware culture, but their origin in the Levant in large part from Natufians they almost certainly had to have a good chunk of lineages that are downstream E-Z827 but that wasn’t found among them? So it sounds like bullshit to me.

So far the only logical conclusion to E-V13 ancestor in Europe is directly from North Africa from the Capsian culture in the Mesolithic. There have even been some archeological sites in Balkans where those Mesolithic people had close connections to North African Mesolithic culture.

But who the fuck knows for sure. We need more samples.


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And Where and When do you think this founder effect happened? It obviously happened far after the Neolithic. I'd say the modern distribution favors a Balkan origin too.

[Arch Hades]

I think yes, Pasiegos are Numidians :lol:

https://static3.eldiariomontanes.es/www/multimedia/201908/15/media/cortadas/valvanuz-dani%20(3)-kBRB-U80991636715jLG-624x385@Diario%20Montanes.jpg

https://img2.rtve.es/v/3304904?w=1600&preview=1443553563024.jpg

https://www.trajetipico.com/uploads/trajes/129-traje-tipico-campurriano.jpg

Seriously, stop searching hilarious stories to justify the North African agenda. It sucks.

You do realize there are Isolated and mountainous Berber groups who look just as White as them, right? Who else do you think the ancient Egyptians stereotyped as pasty white with red hair in their art? Secondly, people who are just as White as them can have even a Black ancestor somewhere in the woodpile so having an off White ancestor from Numidia would be nothing.

Lastly didn't you read that paper on Iberia that came out about a year ago? The Bronze age Iberians all came out R1b. So id say most E-M81 in Iberia at least post dates the Bronze age

[Daos777]

And Where and When do you think this founder effect happened. It obviously happened far after the Neolithic. I'd say the modern distribution favors a Balkan origin too

To my best knowledge. Bronze Age. E-V13 in Sweden for example is a completely different subclade than the one in Balkans, it does not come from the Balkans(earlier than Bronze Age)


https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#V13_subclades


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[Arch Hades]

To my best knowledge. Bronze Age. E-V13 in Sweden for example is a completely different subclade than the one in Balkans, it does not come from the Balkans(earlier than Bronze Age)


https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml#V13_subclades


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So there's been an Ancient DNA study where a sample in Sweden carried E1B1B-V13?

[Cristiano viejo]

You do realize there are Isolated and mountainous Berber groups who look just as White as them, right?e
Hahahahahahahahahha

Some Pasiegos more
https://imagenes.20minutos.es/files/article_amp/uploads/2020/02/22/el-gobierno-renueva-la-pasarela-peatonal-sobre-el-rio-pas-en-puente-viesgo.jpeg

https://static3.eldiariomontanes.es/www/multimedia/201906/15/media/cortadas/cayon%20(2)-kbPE-U80522041413ScG-1248x770@Diario%20Montanes.jpeg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/1u4WFanSXZ2QGuzt16O8uutsuLMoBsSRdVnYA5I5bqLDE0LjhB LI1CKFyV_iEI-oMUpgz2MtJDevFidg00mENLceCn8LZ46e0B3bnDzV1oTJyZIbB GElj3VHF_mcDQzQKAADQE4GeqOaNnbxR5HEHH68XZ1Xj42ALhp AfgmmVm3uq_rOxgwI5pV8lA

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sUQv2xFkhKA/XBwT31p0ZyI/AAAAAAAAJdo/DMwZ1vVuCh0XwBY2Ipe1Yi0edsqXxgRKQCLcBGAs/s1600/presidente_valles_pasiegos.jpg

Pasiegos look nothing like North Africans, and have nothing to do with them, nor culturally nor linguistically nor anything :p

[Daos777]

So there's been an Ancient DNA study where a sample in Sweden carried E1B1B-V13?

We just know by the different subclades and their estimated ages, that northern E-V13 don’t come directly from Balkans in the time period and the cultures you’re suggesting it came from. Northern E-V13 is not from Greeks or Romans. As is the case with Siberian and Tajik E-V13.

[Arch Hades]

Hahahahahahahahahha

Some Pasiegos more
https://imagenes.20minutos.es/files/article_amp/uploads/2020/02/22/el-gobierno-renueva-la-pasarela-peatonal-sobre-el-rio-pas-en-puente-viesgo.jpeg

https://static3.eldiariomontanes.es/www/multimedia/201906/15/media/cortadas/cayon%20(2)-kbPE-U80522041413ScG-1248x770@Diario%20Montanes.jpeg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/1u4WFanSXZ2QGuzt16O8uutsuLMoBsSRdVnYA5I5bqLDE0LjhB LI1CKFyV_iEI-oMUpgz2MtJDevFidg00mENLceCn8LZ46e0B3bnDzV1oTJyZIbB GElj3VHF_mcDQzQKAADQE4GeqOaNnbxR5HEHH68XZ1Xj42ALhp AfgmmVm3uq_rOxgwI5pV8lA

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sUQv2xFkhKA/XBwT31p0ZyI/AAAAAAAAJdo/DMwZ1vVuCh0XwBY2Ipe1Yi0edsqXxgRKQCLcBGAs/s1600/presidente_valles_pasiegos.jpg

Pasiegos look nothing like North Africans, and have nothing to do with them, nor culturally nor linguistically nor anything :p

And what's the frequency of E-M81 in them?

[Arch Hades]

We just know by the different subclades and their estimated ages, that northern E-V13 don’t come directly from Balkans in the time period and the cultures you’re suggesting it came from. Northern E-V13 is not from Greeks or Romans. As is the case with Siberian and Tajik E-V13.

Well until ancient DNA validates that id remain skeptical. Anyway regarding Sweden it's a very trivial lineage in Swedes. My original post you responded to is talking about it's major expansion and in areas it actually became dominant in. Like the Balkans and Southern Italy. In Neolithic times it wasnt dominant in those areas..we know this via ancient DNA.

Btw. The E-V13 in Austria and Southern Germany? Is it the Northern one or Balkan one?

[Cristiano viejo]

And what's the frequency of E-M81 in them?

Around 40% of Pasiegos are m81.

[Daos777]

Well until ancient DNA validates that id remain skeptical. Anyway regarding Sweden it's a very trivial lineage in Swedes. My original post you responded to is talking about it's major expansion and in areas it actually became dominant in. Like the Balkans and Southern Italy. In Neolithic times it wasnt dominant in those areas..we know this via ancient DNA.

Btw. The E-V13 in Austria and Southern Germany? Is it the Northern one or Balkan one?

Depends on the clade.

But for the most part those clades are "Northern" by which I mean they separated from the ancestor of the Balkan branch a long time ago. Balkan people such as Illyrians, Greeks, Thracians were not the people who brought it there. It was an earlier culture. If the majority of E-V13 subclades in the North were balkan ones what you're saying would make sense.

[Arch Hades]

Around 40% of Pasiegos are m81.
Well overall theyre not even remotely 40% North African. So obviously just some founder effect going on.



Btw read this study. In the Bronze age "nearly 100%" of Iberian samples had steppe R1 lineages. So my guess is most E-M81 in Iberia comes after the Bronze age.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6432/1230


I don't see why you give much of a shit about possibly having a few drops of Berber ancestry. The Numidians were great cavalrymen and played a major role in destroying some of Rome's biggest armies under Hannibal. Also the later Moors had an advanced culture. These weren't 75 IQ people living in mud huts. Nor would they have even looked all that different from Celts and Iberians.

[Arch Hades]

Depends on the clade.

But for the most part those clades are "Northern" by which I mean they separated from the ancestor of the Balkan branch a long time ago. Balkan people such as Illyrians, Greeks, Thracians were not the people who brought it there. It was an earlier culture. If the majority of E-V13 subclades in the North were balkan ones what you're saying would make sense.

Well.The Romans never made it to Sweden. They did what is now Bavaria and Austria though.

[Cristiano viejo]

Well overall theyre not even remotely 40% North African. So obviously just some founder effect going on.



Btw read this study. In the Bronze age Iberian samples "nearly 100%" of Iberian samples had steppe R1 lineages. So my guess is most E-M81 in Iberia comes after the Bronze age.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6432/1230


I don't see why you give much of a shit about possibly having a few drops of Berber ancestry. The Numidians were great calverymen and played a major role in destroying some of Rome's biggest armies under Hannibal. Also the later Moors had an advanced culture. These weren't 75 IQ people living in mud huts. Nor would they have even looked all that different from Celts and Iberians.
The later moors were as retarded as any moor That You could imagine. It is a myth that they were advanced. If they were it, why were thy defeated, to start? :rolleyes:

If they were it, why and How did such advances disappear? A Benjamin button racial case maybe? :laugh:

[Arch Hades]

The later moors were as retarded as any moor That You could imagine. It is a myth that they were advanced. If they were it, why were thy defeated, to start? :rolleyes:

If they were it, why and How did such advances disappear? A Benjamin button racial case maybe? :laugh:

The same as what happened to the Spanish empire. Spain had the 4th biggest empire in world history now they just have Spain. How did Spanish military might dissapear?

[Tauromachos]

Well.The Romans never made it to Sweden. They did what is now Bavaria and Austria though.

Mycanaean Greeks did excursions to Sweden though

I don't know if you have heard about that but there have been found Ancient Inscriptions in Mycanaean in Sweden

[Rocinante]

Cantabrian Pasiegos are m81 and they have fuxkingly nothing to do with North Africans.

I know... 22% of galicians have J2 and a decent bunch in Lugo (where my last name comes) have R1b-L21, guess what they have in common with greeks and limeys: Nothing.

The curious thing is how the fuck that happend, even the case of the pasiegos are more curious, being like an hybrid of basques and burgalese castillians genetically.


here we go let's just pretend the stats are false and that north africans never settled in Iberia ...e1b1b are all from neolithic farmers even though none of the copper age samples had this haplogroup.

I4246, Bell Beaker, 2473-2030 cal BCE
mtDNA: E1b1b1a(xE1b1b1a1)

Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras (14) in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans, can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans and Early Neolithic Europeans.

Waaaaaaaaay old E1b... Before the arrive of the Bell-Beakers (R1b-DF27) and the Celts (R1b-DF27 & R1b-U152). This people (E1b) mixed with EEF and the WHG, and there is our small iberomaurusian (or a big part of it) explained. Of course the celts made it smaller, and that´s it.

[Arch Hades]

I know... 22% of galicians have J2 and a decent bunch in Lugo (where my last name comes) have R1b-L21, guess what they have in common with greeks and limeys: Nothing.

The curious thing is how the fuck that happend, even the case of the pasiegos are more curious, being like an hybrid of basques and burgalese castillians genetically.



I4246, Bell Beaker, 2473-2030 cal BCE
mtDNA: E1b1b1a(xE1b1b1a1)

Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras (14) in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans, can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans and Early Neolithic Europeans.

Waaaaaaaaay old E1b... Before the arrive of the Bell-Beakers (R1b-DF27) and the Celts (R1b-DF27 & R1b-U152). This people (E1b) mixed with EEF and the WHG, and there is our small iberomaurusian (or a big part of it) explained. Of course the celts made it smaller, and that´s it.

On PCA in genome wide affinity he clusters with Late Neolithic Morrocans. They aren't really in the European zone genetically. These aren't the same as the Sardinian like farmers who settled Europe.

Anyway, this guy precedes the Steppe incursion into Iberia. And lastly E1b1b1a is not E1b1b-M81.

[Rocinante]

On PCA in genome wide affinity he clusters with Late Neolithic Morrocans. They aren't really in the European zone genetically. These aren't the same as the Sardinian like farmers who settled Europe.

Anyway, this guy precedes the Steppe incursion into Iberia. And lastly E1b1b1a is not E1b1b-M81.

How were Late Neolithic Moroccans? Let's see how it was:

Target: MAR_LN:KEB.4
Distance: 2.9750% / 0.02975041
65.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.0 MAR_Taforalt
5.8 Levant_Natufian
1.4 ITA_Villabruna

Nothing less tham 67% european according my ancient components model. This E-M78 was technically an EEF with strong iberomaurisian ancestry, and surprisingly, levantine farmer.

[Nassbean]

I know... 22% of galicians have J2 and a decent bunch in Lugo (where my last name comes) have R1b-L21, guess what they have in common with greeks and limeys: Nothing.

The curious thing is how the fuck that happend, even the case of the pasiegos are more curious, being like an hybrid of basques and burgalese castillians genetically.



I4246, Bell Beaker, 2473-2030 cal BCE
mtDNA: E1b1b1a(xE1b1b1a1)

Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras (14) in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans, can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans and Early Neolithic Europeans.

Waaaaaaaaay old E1b... Before the arrive of the Bell-Beakers (R1b-DF27) and the Celts (R1b-DF27 & R1b-U152). This people (E1b) mixed with EEF and the WHG, and there is our small iberomaurusian (or a big part of it) explained. Of course the celts made it smaller, and that´s it.

you're dishonest this individual was unique among the other samples from the same era simply because he was north african not a local iberian. So again try to find a copper or bronze age sample with e1b1b good luck

[Nassbean]

How were Late Neolithic Moroccans? Let's see how it was:

Target: MAR_LN:KEB.4
Distance: 2.9750% / 0.02975041
65.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.0 MAR_Taforalt
5.8 Levant_Natufian
1.4 ITA_Villabruna

Nothing less tham 67% european according my ancient components model. This E-M78 was technically an EEF with strong iberomaurisian ancestry, and surprisingly, levantine farmer.

He clusters with both modern and late neolithic moroccans

as you can see he's very close to me :

Distance to: Nassbean_scaled
0.07035651 Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246

Very similar :

https://i.imgur.com/lHubB1v.png



if this haplogroup was mainly brought by EEF we would have at least found the same amount of it all over southern europe but that's not the case there is a big contrast between iberia and other parts of Europe and no copper or bronze samples had this haplogroup + EEF themselves rarely had this Haplogroup. So as I said most of it came directly from north africa during ancient and medieval times ( Punic, roman and moorish presence).

[Rocinante]

He clusters with both modern and late neolithic moroccans

as you can see he's very close to me :

Distance to: Nassbean_scaled
0.07035651 Iberia_Central_CA_Afr:I4246

Very similar :

https://i.imgur.com/lHubB1v.png



if this haplogroup was mainly brought by EEF we would have at least found the same amount of it all over southern europe but that's not the case there is a big contrast between iberia and other parts of Europe and no copper or bronze samples had this haplogroup + EEF themselves rarely had this Haplogroup. So as I said most of it came directly from north africa during ancient and medieval times ( Punic, roman and moorish presence).

But EEF had this haplogroup. You can find them in the aDNA samples around the balkans.


you're dishonest this individual was unique among the other samples from the same era simply because he was north african not a local iberian. So again try to find a copper or bronze age sample with e1b1b good luck

Indeed he could came from North Africa, but wasn't exactly like modern north africans, this guy was overwhemly Farmer and Iberomaurusian, i don't know how Moors from the islamic period were genetically. The thing is that this guy had a Farmer paternal line, IMHO, this because the E-M78 is indeed common in Farmer cultures around Europe.

Don't know why calling me dishonest, where i'm lying?

[Cristiano viejo]

The same as what happened to the Spanish empire. Spain had the 4th biggest empire in world history now they just have Spain. How did Spanish military might dissapear?

Spanish empire was broke due criollos freemasons, i.e. It was broke by ourselves.

[Nassbean]

But EEF had this haplogroup. You can find them in the aDNA samples around the balkans.



Indeed he could came from North Africa, but wasn't exactly like modern north africans, this guy was overwhemly Farmer and Iberomaurusian, i don't know how Moors from the islamic period were genetically. The thing is that this guy had a Farmer paternal line, IMHO, this because the E-M78 is indeed common in Farmer cultures around Europe.

Don't know why calling me dishonest, where i'm lying?

No as I showed you he was similar to me and had the same amount of EEF than me you confuse him with KEB which is something else. And I said dishonest because we're talking about iberians and you brought a north african migrant as an example of e1b1b.

[Chris596]

I think it's possible, on every major calculator I score between 0.5-1% SSA (like Bantu or something), on another I get 1.09 South-African. My question is, how did I, as a Hungarian get SSA admixture?

Everyone who is E-V13 gets this much SSA or more? (serious question) Even in my description, you can see that on Vahaduo Eurogenes K13 I get 0.6 San (San people), while I have more East-Asian and Siberian that's why I get Tatar, Korean, Han Chinese, etc.

Other members told me that 0.3/0.4/0.5 SSA is probably just noise but I'm not sure anymore.

[Halgurd]

I think it's possible, on every major calculator I score between 0.5-1% SSA (like Bantu or something), on another I get 1.09 South-African. My question is, how did I, as a Hungarian get SSA admixture?

Everyone who is E-V13 gets this much SSA or more? (serious question) Even in my description, you can see that on Vahaduo Eurogenes K13 I get 0.6 San (San people), while I have more East-Asian and Siberian that's why I get Tatar, Korean, Han Chinese, etc.

Other members told me that 0.3/0.4/0.5 SSA is probably just noise but I'm not sure anymore.

I don't score any African component in any calculator.
Anything less than 1% is usually noise. Either that or it could be some ancient ancestry for you but that's highly unlikely.

[Rocinante]

No as I showed you he was similar to me and had the same amount of EEF than me you confuse him with KEB which is something else. And I said dishonest because we're talking about iberians and you brought a north african migrant as an example of e1b1b.

No wait. The other user told me about LN moroccans, and i modeled the only LN moroccan than is availeable in G25. You have same amount of EEF compared to who? Also, you are more near to that beaker sample, but still you are far enough. The thing is that man is not a pure north african, see how much Farmer scores and the clade he is.

[Chris596]

I don't score any African component in any calculator.
Anything less than 1% is usually noise. Either that or it could be some ancient ancestry for you but that's highly unlikely.

You're probably right, thanks. What's really interesting that there is a calculator in Admixture Studio (LM Genetics Global K5). Most Europeans don't get any SSA, or between 0.01% or 0.10%, but even there I score 0.36% Negroid. And in another calculator I get Equatorial Africa as a result while nobody else got that, again. (I don't remember the name of that calc)

[Daos777]

You're probably right, thanks. What's really interesting that there is a calculator in Admixture Studio (LM Genetics Global K5). Most Europeans don't get any SSA, or between 0.01% or 0.10%, but even there I score 0.36% Negroid. And in another calculator I get Equatorial Africa as a result while nobody else got that, again. (I don't remember the name of that calc)

Ancestor of E-V13 entered Europe a very long time ago and with a small sub Saharan admixture himself to begin with. So I doubt anything from that side could remain in you for like 8,000-10,000 years lol.


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[Halgurd]

Ancestor of E-V13 entered Europe a very long time ago and with a small sub Saharan admixture himself to begin with. So I doubt anything from that side could remain in you for like 8,000-10,000 years lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How do you know he had SSA admixture?

[Rocinante]

How do you know he had SSA admixture?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Haplogrupo_E-ADN-Y.GIF

[Halgurd]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Haplogrupo_E-ADN-Y.GIF

That doesn't prove anything. Europe autosomally was much different 10,000 years ago to today. Same goes for every other region on this planet.

Plus the mutation of E-V13 didn't occur in Africa.

[Daos777]

How do you know he had SSA admixture?

If we are to believe that ancestor of all E-M78 clades came from Iberomaurusians then:


“A two-way admixture scenario using Natufian and modern sub-Saharan samples (including West Africans and the Tanzanian Hadza) as reference populations inferred that the seven Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities)”

But it most likely wouldn’t have come directly from Iberomaurusians into Europe(possible though) it most likely came from Capsian culture in the Mesolithic and if they are directly descendants of iberomaurusians they would of still had some of that 36.5 sub-Saharan.


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[Daos777]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Haplogrupo_E-ADN-Y.GIF

Dude don’t be jealous that E men got all the big jungle booty to themselves and you guys stayed in Eurasia with the pancake booty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rocinante]

That doesn't prove anything. Europe autosomally was much different 10,000 years ago to today. Same goes for every other region on this planet.

Plus the mutation of E-V13 didn't occur in Africa.

I'm trolling my friend. I just though i was still funny.

[Halgurd]

If we are to believe that ancestor of all E-M78 clades came from Iberomaurusians then:


“A two-way admixture scenario using Natufian and modern sub-Saharan samples (including West Africans and the Tanzanian Hadza) as reference populations inferred that the seven Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities)”

But it most likely wouldn’t have come directly from Iberomaurusians into Europe(possible though) it most likely came from Capsian culture in the Mesolithic and if they are directly descendants of iberomaurusians they would of still had some of that 36.5 sub-Saharan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But do you think E-V13 actually had SSA admixture? By the time the V13 mutation happened 2 previous mutations had already occurred. It's a bit of stretch imo but it's not entirely impossible.

I don't know, do we know the genetic makeup of early E-V13 samples? Surely that would give us an indication.

[Rocinante]

Dude don’t be jealous that E men got all the big jungle booty to themselves and you guys stayed in Eurasia with the pancake booty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have to admit, best asses are the daughters of the E1b. This is true my friend.

But hey... Some of us didn't actually stay in Eurasia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Haplogrupos_ADN-Y_%C3%81frica.PNG

Best butties are in Central Africa and we got them :cool:

[Nassbean]

No wait. The other user told me about LN moroccans, and i modeled the only LN moroccan than is availeable in G25. You have same amount of EEF compared to who? Also, you are more near to that beaker sample, but still you are far enough. The thing is that man is not a pure north african, see how much Farmer scores and the clade he is.

You misunderstood him he was talking about the male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras and said that he clusters with late neolithic moroccans. But as I showed you this male from camino was very similar to me that's why the authors of the study concluded that he was probably a north african migrant and not a local individual.

So again you have no evidence that Most e1b1b clades in iberia came with EEF that's a ridiculous statement

[Nassbean]

If we are to believe that ancestor of all E-M78 clades came from Iberomaurusians then:


“A two-way admixture scenario using Natufian and modern sub-Saharan samples (including West Africans and the Tanzanian Hadza) as reference populations inferred that the seven Taforalt individuals are best modeled genetically as of 63.5% Natufian-related and 36.5% sub-Saharan ancestry (with the latter having both West African-like and Hadza-like affinities)”

But it most likely wouldn’t have come directly from Iberomaurusians into Europe(possible though) it most likely came from Capsian culture in the Mesolithic and if they are directly descendants of iberomaurusians they would of still had some of that 36.5 sub-Saharan.


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that's outdated :


Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt-related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source11; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans23. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full

[Daos777]

But do you think E-V13 actually had SSA admixture? By the time the V13 mutation happened 2 previous mutations had already occurred. It's a bit of stretch imo but it's not entirely impossible.

I don't know, do we know the genetic makeup of early E-V13 samples? Surely that would give us an indication.

Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place.


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[Daos777]

that's outdated :



https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423079v1.full

Yeah I know that it is iberomaurusians who brought that into Sub Saharan Africans not the reverse, but without isolating this side those alleles would still show up as SSA on genetic tests and calculators.


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[Chris596]

Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

[Halgurd]

Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations



Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek



And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:



Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon



EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas

[Rocinante]

This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

0.6% of SSA is having 0% of SSA. Just noise. Also I'm kidding about the E1b1, don't think that having that haplo means negroid, most if you are V13.

Try G25.

[Nassbean]

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations



Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek



And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:



Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon



EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66


be careful with those calculators Taforalt had ANA but no SSA

[Halgurd]

be careful with those calculators Taforalt had ANA but no SSA

Yeah it’s probably not a good idea to use these ancients on modern components but yeah it gives us an idea.

[Daos777]

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations



Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek



And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:



Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon



EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas


Yeah, that sample is mostly Neolithic farmer(Barcin) which is no surprise given the age and location it was found. That area in that time has been mixing with Neolithics for quite a while and whatever was there before would only show up weakly in the dominant Neolithic+ WHG genes. There is significant Morocco late neolithic admixture in one of the Cardial samples though. As in some of the Cucuteni-Tryppilian samples, where E-V13 was also found. I made this table:

https://imgur.com/3etnFsH

Don't think it means much but other neolithic farmers in Europe don't score such a high score.

[Ion Basescul]

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations



Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek



And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:



Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon



EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas


Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?


<tbody>
Distance to:
scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp


6.87866266
Albanian_north_Albania


7.29365478
Vlach_Central-Macedonia


7.64342855
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East


7.69003251
Albanian_Kosovo


7.71172484
Albanian_Albania


7.80235862
Albanian


7.81294439
Greek_Eastern-Macedonia


8.14415128
Albanian_central_Albania


8.32019831
Tuscany


8.68545336
Albanian_Macedonia


8.75502142
Romagna


8.80964490
Kosovo_Albanian


9.07295983
Albanian_south_Albania


9.07667340
Greek_Western-Thrace


9.21926244
Vlach_North-Macedonia


9.23403487
FrenchCorsica


9.39195933
Albanian_Montenegro


9.45345440
Emilia


9.46202410
Tuscan


9.54204381
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central


9.55164384
Greek_Thessaly


9.60281729
Greek_Central-Macedonia


9.68273722
Lazio


9.99962999
Umbria


10.20947599
Marche


</tbody>

[Daos777]

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?


<tbody>
Distance to:
scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp


6.87866266
Albanian_north_Albania


7.29365478
Vlach_Central-Macedonia


7.64342855
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East


7.69003251
Albanian_Kosovo


7.71172484
Albanian_Albania


7.80235862
Albanian


7.81294439
Greek_Eastern-Macedonia


8.14415128
Albanian_central_Albania


8.32019831
Tuscany


8.68545336
Albanian_Macedonia


8.75502142
Romagna


8.80964490
Kosovo_Albanian


9.07295983
Albanian_south_Albania


9.07667340
Greek_Western-Thrace


9.21926244
Vlach_North-Macedonia


9.23403487
FrenchCorsica


9.39195933
Albanian_Montenegro


9.45345440
Emilia


9.46202410
Tuscan


9.54204381
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central


9.55164384
Greek_Thessaly


9.60281729
Greek_Central-Macedonia


9.68273722
Lazio


9.99962999
Umbria


10.20947599
Marche


</tbody>

Yeah that E-V13 sample is just one of the many that Indo-Europeans assimilated from Cucuteni-Trypillian. I


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

Yeah, that sample is mostly Neolithic farmer(Barcin) which is no surprise given the age and location it was found. That area in that time has been mixing with Neolithics for quite a while and whatever was there before would only show up weakly in the dominant Neolithic+ WHG genes. There is significant Morocco late neolithic admixture in one of the Cardial samples though. As in some of the Cucuteni-Tryppilian samples, where E-V13 was also found. I made this table:

https://imgur.com/3etnFsH

Don't think it means much but other neolithic farmers in Europe don't score such a high score.

All E-V13 to date according to haplogroup.info
We don't have the Global 25 data for 3 E-V13 Hungarian Conquerors, a viking from Denmark, a medieval from Germany and a medieval from Sardinia.

https://i.imgur.com/fQgM2i6.png

[Jana]

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?


<tbody>
Distance to:
scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp


6.87866266
Albanian_north_Albania


7.29365478
Vlach_Central-Macedonia


7.64342855
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East


7.69003251
Albanian_Kosovo


7.71172484
Albanian_Albania


7.80235862
Albanian


7.81294439
Greek_Eastern-Macedonia


8.14415128
Albanian_central_Albania


8.32019831
Tuscany


8.68545336
Albanian_Macedonia


8.75502142
Romagna


8.80964490
Kosovo_Albanian


9.07295983
Albanian_south_Albania


9.07667340
Greek_Western-Thrace


9.21926244
Vlach_North-Macedonia


9.23403487
FrenchCorsica


9.39195933
Albanian_Montenegro


9.45345440
Emilia


9.46202410
Tuscan


9.54204381
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central


9.55164384
Greek_Thessaly


9.60281729
Greek_Central-Macedonia


9.68273722
Lazio


9.99962999
Umbria


10.20947599
Marche


</tbody>

Daco-Getae sample? That would be my guess.

[Ion Basescul]

Yeah that E-V13 sample is just one of the many that Indo-Europeans assimilated from Cucuteni-Trypillian. I


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only Trypillian E is Z830, which sits on a different branch.

https://yfull.com/tree/E-Z830/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/

[Daos777]

Daco-Getae sample? That would be my guess.

Too old for that. He was culturally not Dacian or Getae but Scythian like. His results make complete sense and are inline with similar Cimmerian results who also had very high Neolithic farmer input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

Daco-Getae sample? That would be my guess.

Yep, I'd bet on that.

[Jana]

Too old for that. He was culturally not Dacian or Getae but Scythian like. His results make complete sense and are inline with similar Cimmerian results who also had very high Neolithic farmer input.

Too old? Paleo Balkanites appeared exactly in iron age. He could be culturally Scythian, but genetically obviously not.

[Ion Basescul]

Too old for that. He was culturally not Dacian or Getae but Scythian like. His results make complete sense and are inline with similar Cimmerian results who also had very high Neolithic farmer input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are identical to scy300 and scy305 genetically, which are dated to 300BCE.

https://vol-vlad.livejournal.com/1430.html

[Daos777]

Too old? Paleo Balkanites appeared exactly in iron age. He could be culturally Scythian, but genetically obviously not.

So what? His mix would make him similar to Paleo-Balkanites not one of them let alone Getae or Dacian. Doesn't mean he or his ancestors directly participated in the ethnogensis of Dacians/Thracians/Getae. If we claim him for Dacian why not all those Cimmerian samples who are also high neolithic?

[Ion Basescul]

So what? His mix would make him similar to Paleo-Balkanites not one of them let alone Getae or Dacian. Doesn't mean he or his ancestors directly participated in the ethnogensis of Dacians/Thracians/Getae. If we claim him for Dacian why not all those Cimmerian samples who are also high neolithic?

If you can read Russian, the answer from a local Eastern Euro archeologist who specialises in local ancient pops is here: https://vol-vlad.livejournal.com/1430.html

[Halgurd]

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?


<tbody>
Distance to:
scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp


6.87866266
Albanian_north_Albania


7.29365478
Vlach_Central-Macedonia


7.64342855
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East


7.69003251
Albanian_Kosovo


7.71172484
Albanian_Albania


7.80235862
Albanian


7.81294439
Greek_Eastern-Macedonia


8.14415128
Albanian_central_Albania


8.32019831
Tuscany


8.68545336
Albanian_Macedonia


8.75502142
Romagna


8.80964490
Kosovo_Albanian


9.07295983
Albanian_south_Albania


9.07667340
Greek_Western-Thrace


9.21926244
Vlach_North-Macedonia


9.23403487
FrenchCorsica


9.39195933
Albanian_Montenegro


9.45345440
Emilia


9.46202410
Tuscan


9.54204381
Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central


9.55164384
Greek_Thessaly


9.60281729
Greek_Central-Macedonia


9.68273722
Lazio


9.99962999
Umbria


10.20947599
Marche


</tbody>

Yes i'm aware but there's 2 different scy197's not sure which one it was. cant be this one tho because e-v13 moldovan was older than 1650ybp

The Moldovan one is dated 4885-4632 ybp

[TheMaestro]

This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

Nah, I have 0% ssa and in all calculators I have on of least components out of many users here, which is a very homogenous trait.

[Daos777]

If you can read Russian, the answer from a local Eastern Euro archeologist who specialises in local ancient pops is here: https://vol-vlad.livejournal.com/1430.html

Does it basically say the same thing as this paper but in Russian?

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

[Ion Basescul]

Does it basically say the same thing as this paper but in Russian?

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

Of course not, it's a critique on how Westerners have no idea on how to differentiate between Scythians and local cultures or even Huns.

[Halgurd]

Of course not, it's a critique on how Westerners have no idea on how to differentiate between Scythians and local cultures or even Huns.

Yes that’s true. The Moldovan E-V13 lived thousands of years before the Scythians according to the date. It was most likely associated with the western Yamna culture.

[Daos777]

Of course not, it's a critique on how Westerners have no idea on how to differentiate between Scythians and local cultures or even Huns.

I'll read it when I have the time. But I'm specifically talking about that Moldovan E-V13 sample that they attributed to the Scythian culture even though it predates the Scythian or Daco-Getae culture unless they got the dating wrong. That sample has nothing to do directly with Dacians or Getae unless his descendants were the direct ancestors of Dacians. And attributing the other Scythians who had high neolithic admixture that gives them similarities to paleo-balkanites to Dacians based on their autosmal dna can also be wrong. They could have been direct descendants of yamnaya + neolithics and just happened to have higher neolithic admxiture but had no direct cultural ties to Dacians. That's all I'm saying. But I haven't read up much about this specific subject so I could be wrong.

[Ion Basescul]

I'll read it when I have the time. But I'm specifically talking about that Moldovan E-V13 sample that they attributed to the Scythian culture even though it predates the Scythian or Daco-Getae culture unless they got the dating wrong. That sample has nothing to do directly with Dacians or Getae unless his descendants where the direct ancestors of Dacians. And attributing the other Scythians who had high neolithic admixture that gives them similarities to paleo-balkanites to Dacians based on their autosmal dna can also be wrong. They could have been direct descendants of yamnaya + neolithics and just happened to have higher neolithic admxiture but had no direct cultural ties to Dacians. That's all I'm saying. But I haven't read up much about this specific subject so I could be wrong.

He predates them, but he's identical genetically to scy300 and scy305, who were identified as Geto-Thracians. It could be a coincidence or maybe he is their ancestor.

[VikLevaPatel]

What we know for certainty is that E1b1b carriers are very prone to criminal activities and Islam: Somalis, Albanians, Kosovars, North-Africans, etc. They are usually very ectomorph too for some reason.

Apparently Che Guevara belonged to haplogroup R1b (https://archive.is/UbSkc/4d7949f274ae59883171ff851c5a8eacbbaf5539.jpg). And he wasn't exactly a fairy-tale Prince of Peace.

111908

"Yes, my father killed – but revolutions are almost always violent," Guevara's daughter, who lives in Cuba, said (https://archive.is/bv4Tk) in a speech in England.

Che: An assassin or a revolutionary? (https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/10/9/che-an-assassin-or-a-revolutionary)


My paternal haplogroup was reported as ‘R1b1a1a2a1a1c2a1’ which I was impressed to discover was easy to research online, and I quickly found my position on several Y DNA phylogenetic trees. My paternal migratory path with top-line info is shown below: https://archive.is/VgiNZ#selection-1499.0-1499.252


Che Guevara, from Communist Firebrand to Capitalist Brand ... making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine.

https://archive.is/PIvc4

[E1b1b]

Origin of E-M35 lineages explained:

Ancestral North African, ANA(separated from OOA before basal Eurasians did)> Mushabian culture in North Africa, Eastern Africa>Mushabians migrating west (E-M78) forming the Iberomaurusians, Mushabians that migrated east into Levant mixed with local Kebaran culture to form natufians(E-Z827)> Cardialware culture that was found through Levant and North Africa > E-M78 Europe, or E-M78 could have entered Europe in the Mesolithic from Gibraltar.

[Gallop]

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V22/


The E-V22 and all its subclades look at all the European flags, there are more every day, look at the TMRCA dates.

A new user has just put England in first place. formed 8100 ybp, TMRCA 6200 ybp

[Leto]

Apparently Che Guevara belonged to haplogroup R1b (https://archive.is/UbSkc/4d7949f274ae59883171ff851c5a8eacbbaf5539.jpg). And he wasn't exactly a fairy-tale Prince of Peace.

111908

"Yes, my father killed – but revolutions are almost always violent," Guevara's daughter, who lives in Cuba, said (https://archive.is/bv4Tk) in a speech in England.

Che: An assassin or a revolutionary? (https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/10/9/che-an-assassin-or-a-revolutionary)

https://archive.is/VgiNZ#selection-1499.0-1499.252



https://archive.is/PIvc4
You are not E1b1b if FTDNA determined otherwise. Yet you trust some obscure-ass Australian company (I'm surprised it's not an Indian company, lol).

[Germaniac]

E-M81 is somewhat recent in Northwest Africa, having migrated from the Middle East/Northeast Africa. The Iberomaurusians being E-M78. The fact that the oldest E-L618 was found in Spain points to an entry through Gibraltar. It then mutated into E-V13 and spread east, and then it went through two huge bottlenecks in Central Europe and spread again from there. From then on it seems to be explained here well enough.

Furthermore, most recent studies point to DE, and then E*, having originated somewhere in the Middle East in a Proto-Caucasian population, and then entering Africa. The Saharan branches having stayed Caucasian, and the Subsaharan branches having conquered and mixed with original pigmy like Subsaharan A and B populations. Therefore, all this talk about E* or E1b1 being originally non-Caucasian is BS, mainly propagated to make Europeans feel less white and be more hospitable to non white migrants.

[reboun]

Natufians