Balkan Cultural/Genetic Divisions

[CommonSense]

I do find it odd how shortly after the battle of Kosovo and their defeat, they still cooperated and received some sense of control over the vilayet. Definitely blew the Sultan to retain power. Even handed the Serbian princess over in marriage.

He would have annexed the entire state if they didn't. There was no stopping them.

[Laberia]

Why should any of us open a thread when you are going to derail it by copy pasting articles you found on the Internet. And anything we say you will openly dismiss because it doesn't match with your conception. You would only be satisfied if we claimed that we came from Asia and that are genes are Turkish because that's the only thing you are able to believe.

You are a troll like the rest of the other your compatriots.

[The Illyrian Warrior]

I do find it odd how shortly after the battle of Kosovo and their defeat, they still cooperated and received some sense of control over the vilayet. Definitely blew the Sultan to retain power. Even handed the Serbian princess over in marriage.

There's no surprise, if you look the chronology from beginning until the end of Ottomans you find that serbs have been one of most trustworthy vassal state of Ottomans, they have been awarded with benefit in exchange of women.

[CommonSense]

You are a troll like the rest of the other your compatriots.

No, this is real trolling:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?208796-Are-Romanians-slavs-or-Latin

[Dibran]

There's no surprise, if you look the chronology from beginning until the end of Ottomans you find that serbs have been one of most trustworthy vassal state of Ottomans, they have been awarded with benefit in exchange of women.

From what I read this does seem the case. I mean in the grand scheme of things it was probably smart for sense of survival. However, Idk why they deny this fact. Just recently they welcomed Turkey like subjects welcome a King, upon their arrival for political talks.

Albanians(whether it was a smart move or not) were the most rebellious of Ottoman rule. Sure you had some who cooperated. Far less so in our case.

[CommonSense]

From what I read this does seem the case. I mean in the grand scheme of things it was probably smart for sense of survival. However, Idk why they deny this fact. Just recently they welcomed Turkey like subjects welcome a King, upon their arrival for political talks.

Albanians(whether it was a smart move or not) were the most rebellious of Ottoman rule. Sure you had some who cooperated. Far less so in our case.
True, but your territory was smaller in size and you had the most people who converted to islam.

[Laberia]

No, this is real trolling:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?208796-Are-Romanians-slavs-or-Latin
No. it`s not trolling.
You see this:
Are Albanians Illyrian or Not? (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?219174-Are-Albanians-Illyrian-or-Not&highlight=Simic)
It`s a thread started by one of your compatriots, an Chetnik-Titoist teeneager from Canada. I answered to his question and i proved that we are descendants of the Illyrian. You know how? In a very original way. Quoting the elite of your country, a Montenegrin Prince, the king of servia, exactly the king who invaded Kosova and the comunist elite of Yugoslavia. And you Makeridov, finding yourself without arguments said that your king was an imbecile. Do you remember?
This:


About the autocthonus, was your compatriot, CommonSense who started to talk about Slavs autocthonus in Balkans in Novi Pazar style.
It's a shame that you servs don't talk about the ethnogenesis and history of your people. There is not a single thread in this forum where we can read about this topic. And you want to discuss about Kosova. lol. You can not discuss about your history first of all.
Second, exactly about Kosova. I asked by this member CommonSense to elaborate his point of view about this region. Of course, i am not waiting from him a personal theory. You have your scholars and they have wrote extensively about this topic. What are you waiting for?
I have an friendly advice for you, stop being clowns in the front of the forum.

[CabOOM]

True, but your territory was smaller in size and you had the most people who converted to islam.

50% of Albanians converted in the 1800's. During this same time, Serbian, Greek, and Bulgarian churches were heavily trying to assimilate their constituents. It is very possible that Islamization was a lesser of the two evils.

[Dibran]

True, but your territory was smaller in size and you had the most people who converted to islam.

Most Albanian muslims are non denominational. I know a few families who always celebrated catholic festivities despite being "Muslim". Alot of it had to do with taxes. But, it was also pivotal to our survival. Orthodox Christians were the easiest target of assimilation for Greeks and Serbs. Converting to Islam and Catholicism was instrumental in preserving us from assimilation. What amount of land you assume Albanians occupied at that time is irrelevant. Their clans were already mentioned in Kosova(however minimal compared to today). Some of the clans came from Herzegovina. Per YDNA there doesnt seem to be many Slavs that branch from these clans Y-DNA. My own friends clans also have legend of migration from Herzegovina to Montenegro. Honestly the Balkans need a separation of church and state, and an implementation of a Western justice system for domestic purposes. Thats the only way to have the region develop and bring a sense of stability. Macedonia has the right idea with the approval of the language bill. If they honor it, it would prove to be a first step of cooperation. I don;t judge all Serbs, but there is no doubt that their decisions during the war led to the breakup of Yugoslavia. By acting on fear, the regime made that fear a reality. Absent another round of Genocide by your nation, theres absolutely no way those lands will revert back to Serbs. Honestly, any genocide by any nation is detestable. People have to eventually ask themselves whats right and wrong. Not whats right and wrong for my ethnicity.

[CommonSense]

Most Albanian muslims are non denominational. I know a few families who always celebrated catholic festivities despite being "Muslim". Alot of it had to do with taxes. But, it was also pivotal to our survival. Orthodox Christians were the easiest target of assimilation for Greeks and Serbs. Converting to Islam and Catholicism was instrumental in preserving us from assimilation. What amount of land you assume Albanians occupied at that time is irrelevant. Their clans were already mentioned in Kosova(however minimal compared to today). Some of the clans came from Herzegovina. Per YDNA there doesnt seem to be many Slavs that branch from these clans Y-DNA. My own friends clans also have legend of migration from Herzegovina to Montenegro. Honestly the Balkans need a separation of church and state, and an implementation of a Western justice system for domestic purposes. Thats the only way to have the region develop and bring a sense of stability. Macedonia has the right idea with the approval of the language bill. If they honor it, it would prove to be a first step of cooperation. I don;t judge all Serbs, but there is no doubt that their decisions during the war led to the breakup of Yugoslavia. By acting on fear, the regime made that fear a reality. Absent another round of Genocide by your nation, theres absolutely no way those lands will revert back to Serbs. Honestly, any genocide by any nation is detestable. People have to eventually ask themselves whats right and wrong. Not whats right and wrong for my ethnicity.
Thank you for this insightful and sincere comment. Yes, the regime acted on fear and all the Balkan regimes are still feeding fear to their citizens even today because it's a typical populistic way of gaining approval. Sadly, I don't think anything is going to change. I fear the new generation of politicians will be just like the current one.

[Laberia]

True, but your territory was smaller in size and you had the most people who converted to islam.

I can make an entire thread with your shameful submission and collaboration with Ottomans. But i have chosen for you a small and significant thing in order to illustrate how the nature of the things never change:

June 15, 1910, sultan Mehmet V was welcomed by Serbian Orthodox Seminary, serenading him with Turkish songs, vice-consul Rakic gathered a large contingent of serbs, while Albanians boycotted the event (Rakic ‘Konzulska pisma’ 245-50)

Almost 100 years later we followed the belly dance of Dacic for the new sulltan erdogan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP-Nt6H7G84
I forgot the title of the song. How it is, Ottoman again?
The defenders of christianity.

[CabOOM]

I can make an entire thread with your shameful submission and collaboration with Ottomans. But i have chosen for you a small and significant thing in order to illustrate how the nature of the things never change:

June 15, 1910, sultan Mehmet V was welcomed by Serbian Orthodox Seminary, serenading him with Turkish songs, vice-consul Rakic gathered a large contingent of serbs, while Albanians boycotted the event (Rakic ‘Konzulska pisma’ 245-50)

Almost 100 years later we followed the belly dance of Dacic for the new sulltan erdogan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP-Nt6H7G84
I forgot the title of the song. How it is, Ottoman again?
The defenders of christianity.


This Two Face politics of the Serbs, is laughable.


Betrayed Christian Europe - today claiming to defend Christian Europe

Ass kissed their entire history to Ottomans - now claiming they suffered from Ottomans




Honestly though, I don't know why our politicians aren't kissing some more Turkish ass. Loll

[Laberia]

This Two Face politics of the Serbs, is laughable.


Betrayed Christian Europe - today claiming to defend Christian Europe

Ass kissed their entire history to Ottomans - now claiming they suffered from Ottomans




Honestly though, I don't know why our politicians aren't kissing some more Turkish ass. Loll

1910, Isa Boletini and Idriz Seferi tried to halt westward advance of Ottoman troops, but they were outflanked by the army (which had been given the assistance of local Serbs and school teachers to guide them through mountains (N.Malcolm ‘Kosovo a short history’ 241)

Serbian policy was directed quite actively against the Albanians, to the point of giving direct support to the Young Turk regime (N.Malcolm ‘Kosovo a short history’ 243)

1910, Orthodox Metropol of Skopje signed a decree for the suppression of this alien script, joining Young Turks campaign against use of Albanian latin alphabet (N.Malcolm ‘Kosovo a short history’ 243)

[CommonSense]

You know how? In a very original way. Quoting the elite of your country, a Montenegrin Prince, the king of servia, exactly the king who invaded Kosova and the comunist elite of Yugoslavia

I found your comment. Big deal, the speach was supposed to be inspirational and demagogic. Are Serbs supposed be an ancient people because Netanyahu said Serbs and Jews were friends since the days of the Roman republic?

June 15, 1910, sultan Mehmet V was welcomed by Serbian Orthodox Seminary, serenading him with Turkish songs, vice-consul Rakic gathered a large contingent of serbs, while Albanians boycotted the event (Rakic ‘Konzulska pisma’ 245-50)

This is what you get from copy-pasting. Rakic didn't say they boycotted the event. He said that they expected hundreds of thousands of Albanians, while only around 30 000 turned up (he also said they didnt like his attitude, because the sultan was not someone who should go around showing himself to common people and delivering them gifts - it was against tradition). Makes sense, since the Ottomanisation polices of the Young Turks were quite detrimantal for Albanians. It was a time when you stage several revolts because of that.
And regarding Dacic, just lol. He would sing to anyone if he knew the appropriate song.

[Dibran]

Thank you for this insightful and sincere comment. Yes, the regime acted on fear and all the Balkan regimes are still feeding fear to their citizens even today because it's a typical populistic way of gaining approval. Sadly, I don't think anything is going to change. I fear the new generation of politicians will be just like the current one.

Its obvious why. When a nation becomes too poor and too weak, it feeds nationalist fervor, in order to inch closer towards war, which is business. If the general Balkan peoples decided on cooperation, they can all have the peace and stability they want. But, I feel this would make the Balkans self sufficient. Something neither Russia nor America wants. The Balkans has always been a strategic point for competing powers. I remember reading an article where in Macedonia, school teachers from Albanian and Macedonian schools decided to come up with a cross center exercise where Albanian and Macedonian kids would have play dates arranged, to improve relations. The opposition sadly came from both sides(the parents). But, they still did it. May not seem like much now but its a step. With the language bill, bridging communication will help people deal more intimately with each other. These are all good things. Sadly this means dealing with backlash from extremist groups. I even read an article where Albanian Macedonian and Bulgarian military forces will supposedly conduct exercises in the event of unrest war etc. I can;t say I honestly saw that coming. Which is another good thing. Sadly there will always be detractors, and they need to be ignored for the sustainability of the rights of all peoples in that part of the world.

[CommonSense]

Its obvious why. When a nation becomes too poor and too weak, it feeds nationalist fervor, in order to inch closer towards war, which is business. If the general Balkan peoples decided on cooperation, they can all have the peace and stability they want. But, I feel this would make the Balkans self sufficient. Something neither Russia nor America wants. The Balkans has always been a strategic point for competing powers. I remember reading an article where in Macedonia, school teachers from Albanian and Macedonian schools decided to come up with a cross center exercise where Albanian and Macedonian kids would have play dates arranged, to improve relations. The opposition sadly came from both sides(the parents). But, they still did it. May not seem like much now but its a step. With the language bill, bridging communication will help people deal more intimately with each other. These are all good things. Sadly this means dealing with backlash from extremist groups. I even read an article where Albanian Macedonian and Bulgarian military forces will supposedly conduct exercises in the event of unrest war etc. I can;t say I honestly saw that coming. Which is another good thing. Sadly there will always be detractors, and they need to be ignored for the sustainability of the rights of all peoples in that part of the world.

Something will definitely have to change on the global scale for this vision of yours to come true. As long as this region remains important in a geo-strategical sense, the superpowers will never stop meddling in our affairs. And it's true what you said, they promote peace, unity and dialogue, yet they back all the criminal and nationalist politicians like Vucic, Thaci, Milo, Kolinda, etc. Americans would actually prefer for another war to break out, because it would increase their military and political presence even further..which is the only thing that matters to them. They did absolutely nothing to help the people.

[CabOOM]

Something will definitely have to change on the global scale for this vision of yours to come true. As long as this region remains important in a geo-strategical sense, the superpowers will never stop meddling in our affairs. And it's true what you said, they promote peace, unity and dialogue, yet they back all the criminal and nationalist politicians like Vucic, Thaci, Milo, Kolinda, etc. Americans would actually prefer for another war to break out, because it would increase their military and political presence even further..which is the only thing that matters to them. They did absolutely nothing to help the people.
Oh please. America is only pursuing peace for the region. Americans do not want any war, anywhere. It is the ideas of expansionism and the countries feeding their people these ideas that cause long term problems.

It is in fact Russia creating problems in the region. Not only it suits their traditional ally, Serbia with their expansionism, but also deflects from their own expansionism in Ukraine and Georgia. Not to mention the horrid abused currently inflicted on groups of people in Russia. Plenty of examples of Russian interference in the Balkans today.

[CommonSense]

Oh please. America is only pursuing peace for the region. Americans do not want any war, anywhere. It is the ideas of expansionism and the countries feeding their people these ideas that cause long term problems.

It is in fact Russia creating problems in the region. Not only it suits their traditional ally, Serbia with their expansionism, but also deflects from their won expansionism in Ukraine and Georgia. Not to mention the horrid abused currently inflicted on groups of people in Russia. Plenty of examples of Russian interference in the Balkans today.

America's recklessness helped create Bin Laden, the taliban, ISIS. The entire refugee crisis is America's fault.

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52a1c37869bedd476f5aaefd-800-/independent-1993%20(1)-1.jpeg

[CabOOM]

America's recklessness helped create Bin Laden, the taliban, ISIS. The entire refugee crisis is America's fault.

This going into another pseudo-history, which I don't agree with.

Do you agree or disagree that Russian interference is so it can deflect from its own expansionism?

[CommonSense]

This going into another pseudo-history, which I don't agree with.

Do you agree or disagree that Russian interference is so it can deflect from its own expansionism?

Russia is expansionistic, but it does not interfere in the affairs of every country across the globe. The taliban and ISIS were funded by the US, so was Osama.
Also, Vucic and all the other Balkan leaders are western puppets who wouldn't be in power if it werent for US support.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/serbian-president-met-alexander-soros-amidst-anti-soros-campaign-11-20-2017

[CabOOM]

Russia is expansionistic, but it does not interfere in the affairs of every country across the globe. The taliban and ISIS were funded by the US, so was Osama.
Also, Vucic and all the other Balkan leaders are western puppets who wouldn't be in power if it werent for US support.
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/serbian-president-met-alexander-soros-amidst-anti-soros-campaign-11-20-2017

Those are far too strong claims. To believe such things without evidence, even with limited evidence, is only because of wishful thinking.

[alnortedelsur]

That site is not convincing to me. You cannot, for example, review the most common phenotypes prevailing today in North and south American countries, based on their current racial make up, because it only shows the phenotypes of the natives from these countries, when in most of these countries most of the Amerindian blood is mixed with other races, and full natives are far from being the majority of the population, or even extinct.

And when it goes to Spaniards being only Mediterranean, that's a complete joke.

[CommonSense]

Those are far too strong claims. To believe such things without evidence, even with limited evidence, is only because of wishful thinking.

Worse things have happened.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol44no5/html/v44i5a03p.htm

[Joso]

very wrong

[Tauromachos]

very wrong

No they are not wrong

They are very true

[Joso]

No they are not wrong

They are very true

Which are the physical differences between greeks and albanians

[Tauromachos]

Which are the physical differences between greeks and albanians

They look different in general

[Joso]

They look different in general

ok