Gagauz people admixture

[Leto]

Albanians and Bosniaks are ancestrally and geographically Europeans, that's a fact. You may not like Muslim immigration, but don't confuse them with indigenous European population.
No one denies that. Not me at least. Let's settle this argument.

[Marmara]

No one denies that. Not me at least. Let's settle this argument.

Okay

[Böri]

Nice discussions here in this thread.
-Russia should settle its Muzzie problem by returning to her ancestral Novgorod-Kiev-Moscow/Vladimir triangle.
-Russia started to develop with German effect,that means the westernization starting from Peter the Great. Russia reached its zenith under German female dictator (Catherina, the empress). Only USSR turned Russia into smth stronger. The Soviet Union experience and that most of modern Russians are still pro-USSR Communists are the result of eastern Slavic attempt to develop a strong civilization without European authority.
-Gagauz are Turkic people and there is absolutely no discussion about that. Their Orthodoxy doesn't change that.

[Bornoz]

You may not like the map, but the fact is that 97% of Turkey's territory is located in Asia. Also, you guys are Muslims, you speak a Central Asian language and frequently glorify the ancient Turks and Mongols. I've seen Turks whose names were Cengiz, Batuhan, Timurlenk (excuse me if the spelling is wrong) and stuff like that. And on this forum many Turks clearly identify with Eurasian nomads, not with Greeks, Albanians and South Slavs. So what is the problem?

1- 100% of Cyprus and Armenia, most of Georgia and Azerbaijan, more than half of Russia is Asia. Also that 3% is more crowded that many European countries and bigger than some of them. If geography is that important, why did you claim that Cyprus is part of Europe? And that ''geographic'' border is created randomly by random people so that's nonsense. Other than that not only Eastern Thrace and Istanbul, all Western Anatolia was part of Europe in history.

2- Even though I am not what if the most of Turks are Muslim? What does this have to do with religious belief? Do you think that Christianity is something better or more modern? If it is, why the Scandinavian countries where the vast majority of people are atheists and the Western European countries where the majority of people are irreligious are the most livable places on the earth. Despite that why Eastern European countries where the vast majority of people are religious are shithole? Even Southern European countries are shithole compared to Western and Northern countries. Please explain and stop fooling yourself. I am not pleased that my people are Muslims but I would not prefer them to be Christian either.

3- We are speaking a Turkic language because we are Turkic people just like Gagauzes, Tatar, Kazakhs, Chuvashes, Turkmens, Azeris, Uzbeks, Bashkorts... Finns, Estonians, Hungarians, Caucasians some Iberians don't speak Indo-European languages either. What does this have to do with the spoken language?

4- Yes, we don't reject our Turkic, Asiatic ancestors contrarily we proud of them so much. We also love other Turkic nations and countries just because of they are Turkic. Being Turkic does not prevent people to be European. We have been here for such a long time after all. Other than that many other European nations migrated there from Asia.

5- Who even mentioned Greeks, Albanians and South Slavs? :lol: You are creating elements from your *ss. Of course we are not identified with them. When the numbers of all Greeks, Albanians and South Slavs are added together, it equals half of Turkey's population. There is no need to identified with them. Turkish nation is bigger then all of them. So this is so irrevelant.

[Krampus]

Aren’t Gagauz the descendants of Bulgars? I remember reading that their language is a dead mix of Oghuric and Oghuz Turkic, and the Oghuz is influence from the Ottoman Empire. Wouldn’t really make sense for a barely-Turkic people to be descendants of Anatolian Turks while located in Moldova and completely Orthodox. If they were just Anatolian settlers and converts they probably would’ve assimilated.

[Böri]

Aren’t Gagauz the descendants of Bulgars? I remember reading that their language is a dead mix of Oghuric and Oghuz Turkic, and the Oghuz is influence from the Ottoman Empire. Wouldn’t really make sense for a barely-Turkic people to be descendants of Anatolian Turks while located in Moldova and completely Orthodox. If they were just Anatolian settlers and converts they probably would’ve assimilated.

No. Gagauz aren't related with Bulgarians and they have nothing to do with them. Their ethnic language is Oğuz. They are our Orthodox kin. A small group of people of some hundreds of thousands.

[Marmara]

Aren’t Gagauz the descendants of Bulgars? I remember reading that their language is a dead mix of Oghuric and Oghuz Turkic, and the Oghuz is influence from the Ottoman Empire. Wouldn’t really make sense for a barely-Turkic people to be descendants of Anatolian Turks while located in Moldova and completely Orthodox. If they were just Anatolian settlers and converts they probably would’ve assimilated.

Bulgarian Gagauzes claim they're descendants of Bulgars. Could be, maybe after Ottoman conquest they were linguistically Oghuzized, similar to Crimeans, but Bulgars were also Turkic, genetically more Mongoloid than Anatolian Turks. Their language can't be a mix of Oghuz and Bulgar, Bulgar and Turkish is as distinct as English and Russian. Gagauzes speak clear Oghuz Turkish with the same Arabic and Persian loanwords.

There are also Gajals, who are also called Gagauz and the word has the same root with Gagauz, but they are Sunni muslims.

[Böri]

Bulgarian Gagauzes claim they're descendants of Bulgars. Could be.

Nay it couldn't be. That's just brainwashing by Bulgarian religious bigots who seek for people to assimilate to their cult.

[Haider]

I don't argue over Turks rn. Bosniaks and Albanians are also originated in Europe, and Orthodox Christianity is the Eastern, Asiatic version of Christianity which has more in common with Armenians, Lebanese or Copts than West.

Armenians and Copts are Oriental Orthodox. But yes, Russians are in communion with Christian Arabs, who are also mostly Eastern Orthodox. Neither are culturally European.

[WillyWonka]

Karamalakoglu surname

That sounds so wrong! :D

[Haider]

Armenians and Copts are Oriental Orthodox. But yes, Russians are in communion with Christian Arabs, who are also mostly Eastern Orthodox. Neither are culturally European.

In before someone mentions the Eastern 'Catholic' churches in communion with Rome. Those are Catholic only in name, they are either Oriental Orthodox offshoot (eg. Maronites) or Eastern Orthodoxy offshoot itself (eg Melkites). Their customs and traditions are Oriental/Orthodox.

[War Chef]

Nay it couldn't be. That's just brainwashing by Bulgarian religious bigots who seek for people to assimilate to their cult.

We are descent of a Turkish pick-up-artist named Mehmet who could smooth talk his way into any Thraco-Slav girl. For this I am very proud.

[meisje]

Tolerant? Lol. Especially to Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians.
The Russian Empire usually didn't force Tatar to convert, otherwise there wouldn't be over 5 million of them present to this day. In fact, non-Russians had more freedom than many Russians, since non-Christians weren't subjected to serfdom and owned their lands. Western Russia was the most affected by serfdom.

I am talking about Classical Ottoman Empire, not nationalist Young Turks who ruled the Empire with Nationalistic Agenda btw. 1913-1918, 50% of the Istanbul was still Christian in 1914 with so many Christian Schools and Churches that most of them were opened in the Ottoman Rule, Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople was founded by Mehmet the Conqueror after the fall of Constantinople for example, Still old Armenian-Greek-Jewish Churches-Schools-Cemeteries exists and belongs to their foundations which were given them by Ottoman Sultans after 1453 as Waqf Lands, You know nothing about stuff but still care to talk.Armenian Deportations are related to their nationalistic agenda sneaking Turks from behind together with Russian Army, Young Turks just gave them their medicine, nothing religion about Armenian Deportations. Armenians turned it to propanganda that Christians were massacred by Turks by time for attention from other Christian Nations.

We do not call French War Crimes in Algeria in 1950's as Massacres of Muslims by French State



The Russian Empire usually didn't force Tatar to convert, otherwise there wouldn't be over 5 million of them present to this day.

Mishar Tartars are Christians and Russia tried to convert them to Christianity until 18.century but They gave up when they have been unsuccessfull

[Leto]

Mishar Tartars are Christians and Russia tried to convert them to Christianity until 18.century but They gave up when they have been unsuccessfull
They're not. They are (secular) Muslims.

[meisje]

It's because they are so mixed in ancestry and have various cultural influences too.

It's because of the Leto who calls Cypriots as Euros that match closely with Levantines in Oracles

Lebanese Oracle

Eurogenes K15

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 48.54
2 West_Asian 17.72
3 West_Med 12.68
4 Red_Sea 12.16
5 Atlantic 4.87
6 Eastern_Euro 1.2
7 Southeast_Asian 0.74
8 North_Sea 0.73
9 Oceanian 0.72
10 Northeast_African 0.45
11 Amerindian 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Christian 3.54
2 Samaritan 4.48
3 Lebanese_Druze 6.33
4 Palestinian 8.93
5 Cyprian 9.39
6 Lebanese_Muslim 9.62
7 Syrian 10.74
8 Jordanian 11.3
9 Kurdish_Jewish 11.69
10 Iranian_Jewish 13.11
11 Tunisian_Jewish 13.32
12 Libyan_Jewish 14.39
13 Assyrian 15.49
14 Bedouin 15.72
15 Sephardic_Jewish 16.27
16 Algerian_Jewish 17.01
17 Italian_Jewish 17.39
18 Georgian_Jewish 19.54
19 Egyptian 20.43
20 Yemenite_Jewish 21.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.7% Lebanese_Christian + 9.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.28
2 92.7% Lebanese_Christian + 7.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.28
3 64% Samaritan + 36% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.28
4 97.4% Lebanese_Christian + 2.6% Sardinian @ 3.3
5 72.9% Lebanese_Christian + 27.1% Samaritan @ 3.36
6 98.2% Lebanese_Christian + 1.8% French_Basque @ 3.37
7 93.7% Lebanese_Christian + 6.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.37
8 94.1% Lebanese_Christian + 5.9% Italian_Jewish @ 3.37
9 96.7% Lebanese_Christian + 3.3% Tunisian @ 3.39
10 98% Lebanese_Christian + 2% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.4
11 95.6% Lebanese_Christian + 4.4% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.4
12 98% Lebanese_Christian + 2% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.41
13 98% Lebanese_Christian + 2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.42
14 97.4% Lebanese_Christian + 2.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.42
15 98.1% Lebanese_Christian + 1.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.42
16 96.7% Lebanese_Christian + 3.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.43
17 98.1% Lebanese_Christian + 1.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.43
18 98.4% Lebanese_Christian + 1.6% Southwest_French @ 3.44
19 94.4% Lebanese_Christian + 5.6% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.44
20 98.4% Lebanese_Christian + 1.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.44

[Leto]

It's because of the Leto who calls Cypriots as Euros that match closely with Levantines in Oracles

No. I said culturally. Genetically Cypriots and Pontic Greeks are outside the South European cluster.

[TheForeigner]

It's not all about genetics. Ethnically and culturally, the Cypriots are Greeks, so they are European.

[Böri]

3 different states, 3 different ethnic groups hold territory in Cyprus. Turkish north, Greek center and south, British extreme south.
The only European part of Cyprus are Akrotiri and Dhekelia; sovereign British territories on the island where UK flag waves and where British laws apply.
Greeks are Christian, hence closer to Europe. But that is relative, I mean compared to the non-Christian Turks.
Greek Cypriots are Orthodox, oriental, Byzantine people. They aren't Catholic or Protestant. Thus in terms of civilizational and cultural background they arent European, even though being EU.

[TheForeigner]

3 different states, 3 different ethnic groups hold territory in Cyprus. Turkish north, Greek center and south, British extreme south.
The only European part of Cyprus are Akrotiri and Dhekelia; sovereign British territories on the island where UK flag waves and where British laws apply.
Greeks are Christian, hence closer to Europe. But that is relative, I mean compared to the non-Christian Turks.
Greek Cypriots are Orthodox, oriental, Byzantine people. They aren't Catholic or Protestant. Thus in terms of civilizational and cultural background they arent European, even though being EU.

Europe is not just the West, in the strictest sense. Europe is old Christendom and Turks have historically been enemies of all Christendom. Crusades were organized against both Seljuk and Ottoman Turks by Europeans, both Orthodox and Catholic.

[Böri]

Europe is not just the West, in the strictest sense. Europe is old Christendom and Turks have historically been enemies of all Christendom. Crusades were organized against both Seljuk and Ottoman Turks by Europeans, both Orthodox and Catholic.

That's right. However, there is also 4th Crusade against Orthodox Byzantines. And Constantinople wasn't first taken by Turks, it was first taken in 1204 by Crusaders during that 4th crusade (they brought a Danileonid Fleming king :) ). Turks were second to take it.
Homosexuality, socialism, feminism etc have been on the rise in Europe for 200 years and the Church lost its strong influence, so they 'decreased' the standards of Europeanness. When I talk, that's about the historical evolution and civilizational roots of Europe.

[TheForeigner]

That's right. However, there is also 4th Crusade against Orthodox Byzantines. And Constantinople wasn't first taken by Turks, it was first taken in 1204 by Crusaders during that 4th crusade (they brought a Danileonid Fleming king :) ). Turks were second to take it.
Homosexuality, socialism, feminism etc have been on the rise in Europe for 200 years and the Church lost its strong influence, so they 'decreased' the standards of Europeanness. When I talk, that's about the historical evolution and civilizational roots of Europe.

You also had wars of religion between Catholics and Protestants in the early modern age.And what is Europe without it's Greco-Roman roots, which were still embodied by the Byzantines in the middle ages?

[Leto]

Gagauz people are most likely language shifters. I'm pretty sure that even if Azerbaijanis are only 5-6% East Asian on average (and barely any of them is over 10% East Asian), then the Gagauz must be at approximately the same level if not lower. We need at least 2-3 GEDmatch samples of full Gagauz to make any conclusions though. But I'll be damned if they aren't 90+% West Eurasian.

[Böri]

You also had wars of religion between Catholics and Protestants in the early modern age.And what is Europe without it's Greco-Roman roots, which were still embodied by the Byzantines in the middle ages?


Protestant, Lutheran splitted from Catholic but after that turned into a civilization and those religious movements became a branch of that Western civilization. Orthodox and West broke like 1000 years ago. In fact Europe became Europe with 3 series of events: Crusades, Thirty Years Wars and World War I.

Anyway when they tell you 'Turks took the untakeable Constantinople' that's false. Byzantium had already lost it in 1204.

[TheForeigner]

Gagauz people are most likely language shifters. I'm pretty sure that even if Azerbaijanis are only 5-6% East Asian on average (and barely any of them is over 10% East Asian), then the Gagauz must be at approximately the same level if not lower. We need at least 2-3 GEDmatch samples of full Gagauz to make any conclusions though. But I'll be damned if they aren't 90+% West Eurasian.

I'm sure they are significantly less Mongoloid admixed than the Azerbaijanis. Btw, Iranian Azerbaijanis are at same level of Mongoloid admixture as those from Azerbaijan? Azeris must be a mix of indigenous Caucasic and Iranian peoples with Oghuz Turks.

[Leto]

I'm sure they are significantly less Mongoloid admixed than the Azerbaijanis. Btw, Iranian Azerbaijanis are at same level of Mongoloid admixture as those from Azerbaijan? Azeris must be a mix of indigenous Caucasic and Iranian peoples with Oghuz Turks.
I think they are roughly the same. 4-8% Mongoloid, judging by what I've seen. Yes, Azeris are mostly indigenous (West Asian).

[Jana]

I think they are roughly the same. 4-8% Mongoloid, judging by what I've seen. Yes, Azeris are mostly indigenous (West Asian).
They are not. I already posted their spreadsheet averages, they don't differ from Romanians and Bulgarians at all...

[Leto]

A typical Azeri. I think from Iranian Azerbaijan

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.67
2 Gedrosia 21.54
3 Southwest_Asian 11.55
4 Atlantic_Med 10.05
5 North_European 9.33
6 South_Asian 3.88
7 East_Asian 3.63
8 Siberian 1.5
9 Southeast_Asian 1.13
10 Northwest_African 0.64

Only 6.26% East Asian. And the biggest components are basically Caucasus HG, Iran Chacolithic and Near Eastern.

[Leto]

They are not. I already posted their spreadsheet averages, they don't differ from Romanians and Bulgarians at all...
You got me wrong. I mean Azerbaijanis, not Gagauz. The Gagauz are probably 3-5% mong on average (my wild guess).

[Böri]

A typical Azeri. I think from Iranian Azerbaijan

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.67
2 Gedrosia 21.54
3 Southwest_Asian 11.55
4 Atlantic_Med 10.05
5 North_European 9.33
6 South_Asian 3.88
7 East_Asian 3.63
8 Siberian 1.5
9 Southeast_Asian 1.13
10 Northwest_African 0.64

Only 6.26% East Asian. And the biggest components are basically Caucasus HG, Iran Chacolithic and Near Eastern.

That must be someone from Iranian Azerbaijan. Republic of Azerbaijan should be different.

[Leto]

That must be someone from Iranian Azerbaijan. Republic of Azerbaijan should be different.
Not really. Why should they be? They are mostly native by ancestry. From the republic:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 42.69
2 Gedrosia 20.23
3 Southwest_Asian 12.53
4 North_European 8.01
5 Atlantic_Med 7.77
6 East_Asian 2.91
7 Siberian 2.16
8 Southeast_Asian 1.55
9 South_Asian 1.55
10 Northwest_African 0.6

Roughly the same.

[gültekin]

A typical Azeri. I think from Iranian Azerbaijan

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.67
2 Gedrosia 21.54
3 Southwest_Asian 11.55
4 Atlantic_Med 10.05
5 North_European 9.33
6 South_Asian 3.88
7 East_Asian 3.63
8 Siberian 1.5
9 Southeast_Asian 1.13
10 Northwest_African 0.64

Only 6.26% East Asian. And the biggest components are basically Caucasus HG, Iran Chacolithic and Near Eastern.
why you ignore
4 Atlantic_Med 10.05
5 North_European 9.33
they aren't indigenous as well

[Leto]

why you ignore
4 Atlantic_Med 10.05
5 North_European 9.33
Because here I emphasize the West Asian predominance. That European input is IE/Aryan anyway. Kurds and Persians have the same thing. Ask Hadouken and Pahli to post their results.

[Leto]

A Yazidi from Iraq:

Kit T663867

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 40.03
2 Gedrosia 25.32
3 Southwest_Asian 12.76
4 Atlantic_Med 9.49
5 North_European 4.81
6 South_Asian 2.48
7 Southeast_Asian 1.72
8 East_African 1.04
9 East_Asian 0.79
10 Siberian 0.77
11 Northwest_African 0.48
12 Sub_Saharan 0.32

[gültekin]

Because here I emphasize the West Asian predominance. That European input is IE/Aryan anyway. Kurds and Persians have the same thing. Ask Hadouken and Pahli to post their results.
no, is not anyway. that contribute came clearly with Turkic expansion. check out the iranian average for compare. (which is actualy just supposed to be north iranian average btw. )

[Leto]

no, is not anyway. that contribute came clearly with Turkic expansion. check out the iranian average for compare. (which is actualy just north iranian average btw. )
It is. Anyway, The Turks have it from the Aryans as well.

Another Yazidi:

Kit T857736

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.62
2 Gedrosia 26.3
3 Southwest_Asian 12.35
4 North_European 8.17
5 Atlantic_Med 7.8
6 South_Asian 3.61
7 Siberian 1.22
8 Sub_Saharan 0.72
9 East_Asian 0.21

Why is it so difficult to accept that Azerbaijanis are predominantly West Asian? They even look much closer to Kurds and Persians than to Kazakhs and Uzbeks.

[TheForeigner]

no, is not anyway. that contribute came clearly with Turkic expansion. check out the iranian average for compare. (which is actualy just north iranian average btw. )

More likely it's from both sources.

[Leto]

These guys are the definition of West Asian, lol
http://en.thegreatmiddleeast.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/04/ilhamandmehribanaliyeva.jpg

[gültekin]

Iranians Dodecad K12b:
Atlantic_Med 5.90
North_European 4.20
Southwest_Asian 14.20

[Leto]

Iranians Dodecad K12b:
Atlantic_Med 5.90
North_European 4.20
Southwest_Asian 14.20
Okay, a couple of percentages more or less. Does that change the bigger picture? Still the largest components are Caucasus, Gedrosia and SW Asia. Case closed.

[Hadouken]

Leto we look different from persians as a whole . of course there is overlap but I dont agree with lumping us always together as if we are twins. There are big differnces especially with us turkiah kurds

[meisje]

It is pathetic that someone's who call Georgians-Cypriots-Greeks as Euro,Do not accept Gagauz and Azeris as Turk

[meisje]

Renaissance-Enlightment-Industralisation are main key Stones of Western Civilization, not Christianity,That's why East-Euro countries are still poor and backward in that they are still lack of them

[gültekin]

Okay, a couple of percentages more or less. Does that change the bigger picture? Still the largest components are Caucasus, Gedrosia and SW Asia. Case closed.
i still don't see any noteworthy african admixture also in azerbaijan Turks which is significant in persians. the same percent of SW score Balkan-Greece also(9-10%)
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/8068483/1/#post3089820

[Leto]

Leto we look different from persians as a whole . of course there is overlap but I dont agree with lumping us always together as if we are twins. There are big differnces especially with us turkiah kurds
I didn't say you looked the same. I meant generally Azeris are more like Kurds and Iranians than Kazakhs or say Bashkirs. That's not debatable. Ilham Aliyev is kinda similar to you actually. Southern Iranians are more distant, I agree.

[Leto]

i still don't see any noteworthy african admixture also in azerbaijan Turks which is significant in persians
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/8068483/1/#post3089820
Bro, apparently you fail to understand my point or you are a blind Turanist supremacist. I never said they were THE SAME. I said one simple thing - Azerbaijanis are PREDOMINANTLY West Asian and less than 10% Mongoloid. More like 5-6% on average. You simply cannot disprove it. And what the hell does African have to do with that? It's not indigenous in Iran either.

[Hadouken]

I didn't say you looked the same. I meant generally Azeris are more like Kurds and Iranians than Kazakhs or say Bashkirs. That's not debatable. Ilham Aliyev is kinda similar to you actually. Southern Iranians are more distant, I agree.

No he isnt

the nose alone is very different ( I have a Roman nose mostly) and he is highly alpinized . I am surprised sometimes how some members seem to see me xD

[TheForeigner]

Off topic, but is it true that Cumans and some other Turkic tribes were noted for high incidence of light hair and light eyes? I've seen it claimed on the forum and on wikipedia. I find it hard to believe that Russians saw them as blond people. I mean all Turkic peoples are predominantly or even overwhelmingly brunet. I've even read that Yoruk Turcomans in the Balkans and Anatolia are often blond. Hard to believe.

[Böri]

They declared Byzantium to be European during the 20th century, when they took Greece in EU and to tell Orthodox folks of USSR and Iron curtain 'look guys you can also reach the kızıl elma'. It was a cold war propaganda policy.
Around the 19th century, the word 'Byzantine' was invented, I mean it did exist in history, but better said it was spread by German historians to underline the difference of the Orthodoxes and so that the word 'Roman' (present in the Holy Germanic Empire's name) isn't used for Orthodoxes.

Leto is a Belarussian Orthodox, he is certainly white as fuck in his phenotype but that he belongs to the eastern, Kievan Rus, Orthodox culture certainly pushes him to pretend things like the Hellenic-speaking Orthodox Arabs (aka Cypriots) are European. By the same logic, the Coptes from Egypt are also European.

[meisje]

It's not all about genetics. Ethnically and culturally, the Cypriots are Greeks, so they are European.

It is everything when it fits to your agenda according to non-existent average sheet of Stearsolina,Gagauzes are not Turk despite I show otherwise with Population Admixture Oracle, Now Leto try to prove that Azeris are not Turk also

[gültekin]

Bro, apparently you fail to understand my point or you are a blind Turanist supremacist. I never said they were THE SAME. I said one simple thing - Azerbaijanis are PREDOMINANTLY West Asian and less than 10% Mongoloid. More like 5-6% on average. You simply cannot disprove it. And what the hell does African have to do with that? It's not indigenous in Iran either.
you sayed:

Not really. Why should they be? They are mostly native by ancestry. From the republic:

you sayed this, and i am correcting you that you can't count only the e-asian admx. while other components also differ. and yes, if your claim were true, they should also score african just like their persian neighboors do. which Azerbaijanis don't.

[Leto]

Off topic, but is it true that Cumans and some other Turkic tribes were noted for high incidence of light hair and light eyes? I've seen it claimed on the forum and on wikipedia. I find it hard to believe that Russians saw them as blond people. I mean all Turkic peoples are predominantly or even overwhelmingly brunet. I've even read that Yoruk Turcomans in the Balkans and Anatolia are often blond. Hard to believe.
I think that pre-Mongol Turkic tribes of the Eurasian steppe may have had more Aryan blood than modern Turkic peoples outside the Volga region. We need ancient samples of Khazars, Cumans, Bulgars and Kipchaks.

This is a Kipchak (Polovets) facial reconstruction. Looks more on the Caucasoid side.
http://es-kiz.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/e8bcf8c959e93f310a1221872537fc3f.jpg

[meisje]

They are not. I already posted their spreadsheet averages, they don't differ from Romanians and Bulgarians at all...

To match with Bulgars do not make them Bulgars as much as to match with British does not make Spaniards British, You still do not show a full Oracle with Population Admixture,Be more specific,If we go deeper You will be easily crushed that's why You do not go in details

[Leto]

They declared Byzantium to be European during the 20th century, when they took Greece in EU and to tell Orthodox folks of USSR and Iron curtain 'look guys you can also reach the kızıl elma'. It was a cold war propaganda policy.
Around the 19th century, the word 'Byzantine' was invented, I mean it did exist in history, but better said it was spread by German historians to underline the difference of the Orthodoxes and so that the word 'Roman' (present in the Holy Germanic Empire's name) isn't used for Orthodoxes.

Leto is a Belarussian Orthodox, he is certainly white as fuck in his phenotype but that he belongs to the eastern, Kievan Rus, Orthodox culture certainly pushes him to pretend things like the Hellenic-speaking Orthodox Arabs (aka Cypriots) are European. By the same logic, the Coptes from Egypt are also European.
Bro, I already settled that discussion, I won't continue arguing about who's European and who's not. Especially with Turks who are known as largely anti-Christian, anti-European and anti-Russian.

[TheForeigner]

[QUOTE=Leto;4941555]I think that pre-Mongol Turkic tribes of the Eurasian steppe may have had more Aryan blood than modern Turkic peoples outside the Volga region. We need ancient samples of Khazars, Cumans, Bulgars and Kipchaks.

By Aryan you mean Scythians, right? I imagined the old Turkic tribes as mixed race Turanids, with slanted eyes and brunet pigmentation.

[Leto]

you sayed:

you sayed this, and i am correcting you that you can't count only the e-asian admx. while other components also differ. and yes, if your claim were true, they should also score african just like their persian neighboors do. which Azerbaijanis don't.
Most Iranians are barely African. 1-2% at best. You're strawmaning. What is your point? Azeris are straight out of the steppe? No way. Of course they are Turkic which is an ethnocultural category. And they do have Steppe admixture, but much of their ancestry is West Asian without a doubt. I think 70-80% or so.

[gültekin]

[QUOTE=Leto;4941555]I think that pre-Mongol Turkic tribes of the Eurasian steppe may have had more Aryan blood than modern Turkic peoples outside the Volga region. We need ancient samples of Khazars, Cumans, Bulgars and Kipchaks.

By Aryan you mean Scythians, right? I imagined the old Turkic tribes as mixed race Turanids, with slanted eyes and brunet pigmentation.
they were such ayran, yes
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?216492-Scythians-and-Sarmatians-on-Gedmatch

They are so aryan, i can't hold my flowing tears

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 31.78
2 Steppe 14.48
3 NorthEastEuropean 12.57
4 SouthEastAsian 12.36
5 Caucasian 7.67
6 Indian 6.75
7 Amerindian 5.73
8 Arctic 5.63
9 Neolithic 2.22
10 Subsaharian 0.46
11 Australian 0.31
12 EastAfrican 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Shor (Kemerovo) 5.05
2 Hakas (Khakassia) 6.2
3 Bashkir (Muradymovo) 10.65
4 Bashkir (Ufa) 11.82
5 Bashkir (Bashkortostan) 12.82
6 Kazakh (Tien_Shan) 13.92
7 Bashkir (Akyar) 14.45
8 Karakalpak (Karakalpakstan) 14.84
9 Kazakh (CentralKazakhstan) 14.98
10 Khanty (Khanty–Mansi) 15.31
11 Bashkir (Kildigulovo) 16.25
12 Altaian (Altai) 16.33
13 Kyrgyz (Murgab) 16.65
14 Ket (Krasnoyarski_Krai) 17
15 Forest_Yukaghir (Kolyma) 17.12
16 Kazakh (Kazakhstan) 17.26
17 Selkup ((Yamalo_Nenets_okrug)) 17.46
18 Kyrgyz (Kyrgyzstan) 17.7
19 Kyrgyz (Alichur) 18.01
20 Mansi (Khanty–Mansi) 18.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.9% Shor (Kemerovo) + 10.1% Tlingit (NA) @ 2.52
2 91.5% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.5% Belarusian_West (WestBelarus) @ 3.03
3 75.6% Shor (Kemerovo) + 24.4% Bashkir (Bashkortostan) @ 3.06
4 91.4% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.6% Belarusian_East (EastBelarus) @ 3.07
5 86.3% Shor (Kemerovo) + 13.7% Lipka_Tatar (Belorus) @ 3.08
6 91.6% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.4% Cossack (Zaporozhie) @ 3.08
7 84.8% Shor (Kemerovo) + 15.2% Mari (Mari_El) @ 3.09
8 87.5% Shor (Kemerovo) + 12.5% Tatars (Tatarstan) @ 3.09
9 90.8% Shor (Kemerovo) + 9.2% Erzya_Moksha (Mordovia) @ 3.09
10 91% Shor (Kemerovo) + 9% Russian (Russia) @ 3.1
11 91.7% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.3% Ukrainians_east (EastUkraine) @ 3.11
12 91.8% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.2% Hungarian (Budapest) @ 3.12
13 88.6% Shor (Kemerovo) + 11.4% Mishar-Tatar (Mordovia) @ 3.12
14 91.5% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.5% Russian_cossack (Kuban) @ 3.13
15 91.7% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.3% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 3.13
16 88.7% Shor (Kemerovo) + 11.3% Kryashen (Bashkortostan) @ 3.15
17 91.8% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.2% Ukrainians_west (WestUkraine) @ 3.16
18 88.4% Shor (Kemerovo) + 11.6% Komi (Komi_Republic) @ 3.17
19 91.7% Shor (Kemerovo) + 8.3% Pole (Poland) @ 3.17
20 92.1% Shor (Kemerovo) + 7.9% Lithuanian (Lithuania) @ 3.18

[Leto]

By Aryan you mean Scythians, right? I imagined the old Turkic tribes as mixed race Turanids, with slanted eyes and brunet pigmentation.
Yes, Indo-Iranian, Scythian, that kind of stuff. You're right, they were what Blogen calls 'Europo-mongoloid'. Bashkirs are a classic example of a mixed race Eurasian population. They are like 35-45% East Asian + a lot of NE Euro blood from the Aryans.

[gültekin]

Most Iranians are barely African. 1-2% at best. You're strawmaning. What is your point? Azeris are straight out of the steppe? No way. Of course they are Turkic which is an ethnocultural category. And they do have Steppe admixture, but much of their ancestry is West Asian without a doubt. I think 70-80% or so.
did you count them ? any ethnic persian which i saw (antroscape-antrogenica) score from %5 - %10 african.
iranian average on spreadsheets is from north btw. i hope you have a idea about the map of Iran

[Seya]

Look at carefully to Population Admixture

Admix the Results (sorted):

# the Population the Percent
1 Caucasian 35.88
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 29.03
3 European_Early_Farmers 10.92
4 South_Central_Asian 5.94
5 Near_East 5.28
6 North_African 2.77
7 Ancestral_Altaic 2.66
8 Tungus-Altaic 2.21
9 Paleo_Siberian 1.75
10 East_Siberian 1.20
11 1.10 South_Indian


Finished! Reading population data all. 620 populations found.
23 mode, Components.

--------------------------------

Least-Squares Method.

Using one population approximation:
1 Gagauz @ 8.552280

Using two populations approximation:
1 See details 50% Turk_Aydin + 50% Ukrainian_West @ 2.998224

i think gagauz people are original romanians or original inhabitants of the region. other moldovans seem to be somewhere in between romanians and ukrainains and it makes sense cose they have heavily mixed while gagauz are identical to east romanians. the results i've seen are very similar to mine..almost identical (i have more asian then any gagauz result i've seen so far but well..the difference is not significant). i live at 50km away from the Autonomous Territorial Unit of Gagauzia....so..it makes sense.

[Leto]

did you count them ? any ethnic persian which i saw (antroscape-antrogenica) score from %5 - %10 african.
iranian average on spreadsheets is from north btw. i hope you have a idea about the map of Iran
5-10% Negro? Impossible. Not even the Lebanese are that much African. And Iranians are not Arabs.

[Leto]

i think gagauz people are original romanians or original inhabitants of the region. other moldovans seem to be somewhere in between romanians and ukrainains and it makes sense cose they have heavily mixed while gagauz are identical to east romanians. the results i've seen are very similar to mine..almost identical (i have more asian then any gagauz result i've seen so far but well..the difference is not significant). i live at 50km away from the Autonomous Territorial Unit of Gagauzia....so..it makes sense.
Why won't you post those results or kit numbers? Where did you see them?

[gültekin]

5-10% Negro? Impossible. Not even the Lebanese are that much African. And Iranians are not Arabs.
who said they are arabs ?
anyway, persian result:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/8068483/1/#post3089820

Hello everyone, i'm Persian from Fars Province + Tehran and this is my result
Posted Image
MDLP K11 2xOracle and OracleX4

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1 Basal 31.71
2 EHG 26.15
3 Neolithic 12.29
4 ASI 11.35
5 African 10.96
6 Iran-Mesolithic 6.33

(735) End of data. popN=151

Finished reading population data. 161 populations found.
11 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Iran_Chalcolithic @ 19.462309
2 Armenia_MBA @ 26.622236
3 Iran_LN @ 26.832777
4 Armenia_MLBA @ 27.364752
5 Armenia_Chalcolithic @ 28.309105
6 British_Roman @ 28.611507
7 Armenia_EBA @ 29.268087
8 Armenia_LBA @ 30.920755
9 Levant_BA @ 37.063549
10 Vestonice14_Gravettian @ 39.851063
11 Kostenki14_Upper_Paleolithic @ 41.284073
12 Iran_N @ 41.618465
13 Iran_Mesolithic @ 43.210403
14 Hungary_IronAge @ 44.180962
15 Anatolia_Chalcolithic @ 45.550282
16 Ust_Ishim_Upper_ @ 46.156315
17 Russia_IA @ 46.755707
18 Muierii2_Upper_Paleolithic @ 46.935078
19 Levant_N @ 47.496071
20 Scythian_IA @ 48.831791

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% British_Roman +50% Iran_LN @ 11.088738


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% British_Roman +25% Iran_Mesolithic +25% Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 8.008173


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 British_Roman + British_Roman + Iran_Mesolithic + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 8.008173
2 British_Roman + Iran_Chalcolithic + Iran_Chalcolithic + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 8.048347
3 British_Roman + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic + Satsurblia_CHG @ 8.125014
4 Iran_Chalcolithic + Iran_Chalcolithic + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 8.162381
5 British_Roman + British_Roman + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic + Satsurblia_CHG @ 8.265581
6 British_Roman + Iran_Mesolithic + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 8.318357
7 British_Roman + British_Roman + Iran_LN + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 8.359215
8 Levant_BA + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic + Satsurblia_CHG @ 8.689610
9 Iran_Mesolithic + Levant_BA + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.276688
10 British_Roman + Kotias_CHG + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.305306
11 British_Roman + British_Roman + Iran_Chalcolithic + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.339961
12 British_Roman + British_Roman + Kotias_CHG + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.438023
13 Iran_Chalcolithic + Iran_LN + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.578528
14 British_Roman + British_Roman + Iran_N + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.710876
15 British_Roman + Iran_LN + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.737882
16 Kotias_CHG + Levant_BA + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.792796
17 Armenia_MLBA + Iran_Chalcolithic + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.844069
18 Armenia_MLBA + British_Roman + British_Roman + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.978103
19 British_Roman + Iran_Chalcolithic + Iran_LN + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 9.987851
20 Armenia_EBA + Iran_Chalcolithic + Levant_BA + Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic @ 10.034348

[Seya]

Why won't you post those results or kit numbers? Where did you see them?

i didn't save them..i've seen them on TA. if u dig a little bit u can find them. i'm on my phone right now...

[TheForeigner]

Yes, Indo-Iranian, Scythian, that kind of stuff. You're right, they were what Blogen calls 'Europo-mongoloid'. Bashkirs are a classic example of a mixed race Eurasian population. They are like 35-45% East Asian + a lot of NE Euro blood from the Aryans.

How do Bashkirs look like? Are there many light haired and light eyed?

[Leto]

How do Bashkirs look like? Are there many light haired and light eyed?
They are more mongoloid than Volga Tatars. Most are not light-haired, but some are. They are in between Tatars and Kazakhs in my opinion.

[Leto]

who said they are arabs ?
anyway, persian result:

Because it's Arabs who are called sand nibbers. Persians are different genetically. And I think that guy is an outlier. I'm not convinced.

[Bornoz]

This has nothing to do with genetics. Even if you are 0% East Asian, you are Turkic if you are Gagauz, Turk, Azeri, Tatar...
If you don't want to consider yourself Turkic then don't. That is your personal problem.

[gültekin]

Because it's Arabs who are called sand nibbers. Persians are different genetically. And I think that guy is an outlier. I'm not convinced.
outlier of the tiny "north iran" were you can find barely persian, which are basicaly a mix of caucasians turkics kurds gulams and god know what else. the biggest bulk of Iran and were the persians are living is the central and southern, geographically and population wise. and the guy is from from "Fars" (Persia) province and Tehran.

[TheForeigner]

outlier of the tiny "north iran" were you can find barely persian, which are basicaly a mix of caucasians turkics kurds gulams and god know what else. the biggest bulk of Iran and were the persians are living is the central and southern, geographically and population wise. and the guy is from from "Fars" (Persia) province and Tehran.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155675-Subsaharan-admixture-in-MENA-groups/page2 Longbowman posted some K8 admixture results for MENAs and Iran is only 2.43%.

[meisje]

i think gagauz people are original romanians or original inhabitants of the region. other moldovans seem to be somewhere in between romanians and ukrainains and it makes sense cose they have heavily mixed while gagauz are identical to east romanians. the results i've seen are very similar to mine..almost identical (i have more asian then any gagauz result i've seen so far but well..the difference is not significant). i live at 50km away from the Autonomous Territorial Unit of Gagauzia....so..it makes sense.

Share your kit number and we can run who you are,By the way,I am the only person who shared fully Gagauz Oracle, Both Moldovians and Gagauzes are Slav mix

[Leto]

outlier of the tiny "north iran" were you can find barely persian, which are basicaly a mix of caucasians turkics kurds gulams and god know what else. the biggest bulk of Iran and were the persians are living is the central and southern, geographically and population wise. and the guy is from from "Fars" (Persia) province and Tehran.
Nope. Iranians are mostly native + some IE and also a minor share of other things.

[gültekin]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?155675-Subsaharan-admixture-in-MENA-groups/page2 Longbowman posted some K8 admixture results for MENAs and Iran is only 2.43%.
that average population is from North Iran, like i said above. and even they have african like you post.
educate your selve about the Iran map first
https://s13.postimg.org/xuiitbjzr/iran-harita.jpg

[TheForeigner]

How do you know it's from northern Iran? Why would they not test Persians, who are the majority and most representative people of Iran?

[Leto]

Arya is Southern Iranian, this is her result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 37.66
2 Gedrosia 30.2
3 Southwest_Asian 15.29
4 North_European 5.64
5 Atlantic_Med 5.63
6 South_Asian 3.62
7 Southeast_Asian 1.4
8 East_African 0.45
9 Northwest_African 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 2.84

Another Iranian:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 34.47
2 Gedrosia 27.72
3 Southwest_Asian 17.11
4 Atlantic_Med 6.2
5 South_Asian 5.28
6 North_European 5.04
7 Northwest_African 2.79
8 Sub_Saharan 0.86
9 East_African 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 5.14

[Leto]

How do you know it's from northern Iran? Why would they not test Persians, who are the majority and most representative people of Iran?
He clearly has an anti-Aryan and anti-IE agenda. Those Turks even claim R1a is a Turkic haplogroup, lol.

[gültekin]

How do you know it' from northern Iran? Why would they not test Persians, who are the majority and most representative people of Iran?
it is based also only with just 8 individuals and you will show it representative for the whole Iran. hillarious
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GWhNZcfTQ2hMSK9Ni1IqG7aXHB00SRE5L6ED2osPs9M/edit#gid=0

He clearly has an anti-Aryan and anti-IE agenda. Those Turks even claim R1a is a Turkic haplogroup, lol.
wrong , i'm pro natufian

[TheForeigner]

Why do Iranians score NW African and South Asian? I am always amazed that South Asian admixture shows up outside the Indian subcontinent.

[gültekin]

Arya is Southern Iranian, this is her result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 37.66
2 Gedrosia 30.2
3 Southwest_Asian 15.29
4 North_European 5.64
5 Atlantic_Med 5.63
6 South_Asian 3.62
7 Southeast_Asian 1.4
8 East_African 0.45
9 Northwest_African 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 2.84

Another Iranian:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 34.47
2 Gedrosia 27.72
3 Southwest_Asian 17.11
4 Atlantic_Med 6.2
5 South_Asian 5.28
6 North_European 5.04
7 Northwest_African 2.79
8 Sub_Saharan 0.86
9 East_African 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranians (Behar) 5.14
i remember that she wasn't sure about her ancestry.

this guy in other hand is from persia+tehran:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5949871/2/#post3094071
#PopulationPercent
1 East_Med 27.32
2 West_Asian 20.9
3 Red_Sea 15.54
4 South_Asian 12.6
5 Northeast_African 7.24
6 Sub-Saharan 5.29
7 Eastern_Euro 4.18
8 West_Med 2.29
9 Baltic 1.68
10 North_Sea 1.09
11 Atlantic 0.87
12 Siberian 0.84
13 Oceanian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1 Iranian 16.08
2 Syrian 16.69
3 Bedouin 17.34
4 Jordanian 17.59
5 Azeri 17.78
6 Lebanese_Muslim 18.69
7 Turkish 19.05
8 Kurdish 19.23
9 Iranian_Jewish 19.42
10 Palestinian 20.39
11 Assyrian 20.74
12 Turkmen 20.83
13 Kurdish_Jewish 20.99
14 Georgian_Jewish 21.38
15 Egyptian 21.71
16 Samaritan 23.31
17 Ashkenazi 23.37
18 Armenian 23.39
19 Tunisian_Jewish 23.46
20 Libyan_Jewish 23.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.8%Bedouin + 40.2%Makrani @ 5.89
2 63.2%Bedouin + 36.8%Brahui @ 6.03
3 57.3%Egyptian + 42.7%Brahui @ 6.13
4 53.8%Egyptian + 46.2%Makrani @ 6.14
5 69.9%Bedouin + 30.1%Kalash @ 6.15
6 57.5%Egyptian + 42.5%Balochi @ 6.23
7 63.5%Bedouin + 36.5%Balochi @ 6.25
8 69.5%Bedouin + 30.5%Pathan @ 6.68
9 70.8%Bedouin + 29.2%Burusho @ 6.74
10 64.9%Bedouin + 35.1%Afghan_Pashtun @ 6.76
11 71.6%Bedouin + 28.4%Sindhi @ 7.1
12 64.6%Egyptian + 35.4%Kalash @ 7.14
13 59%Egyptian + 41%Afghan_Pashtun @ 7.22
14 72.1%Bedouin + 27.9%Punjabi_Jat @ 7.33
15 64.3%Egyptian + 35.7%Pathan @ 8.19
16 71.2%Jordanian + 28.8%Burusho @ 8.32
17 70.6%Jordanian + 29.4%Kalash @ 8.32
18 53.2%Makrani + 46.8%Saudi @ 8.43
19 65.7%Egyptian + 34.3%Burusho @ 8.51
20 70.1%Jordanian + 29.9%Pathan @ 8.52

[gültekin]

Why do Iranians score NW African and South Asian? I am always amazed that South Asian admixture shows up outside the Indian subcontinent.
S. Asia is were their Indo speaker ancestors came from, just an geneticaly trace. african indicates to ancient natives like in the mesopotamia Iraq etc. at last they are neighboors. elamite legacy i think.

[TheForeigner]

He clearly has an anti-Aryan and anti-IE agenda. Those Turks even claim R1a is a Turkic haplogroup, lol.

Why do Iranians score NW African and South Asian? I am always amazed that South Asian admixture shows up outside the Indian subcontinent. Is it ASI or ANI how did it get there out of India?

[TheForeigner]

S. Asia is were their Indo speaker ancestors came from, just an geneticaly trace. african indicates to ancient natives like in the mesopotamia Iraq etc. they are neighboors. elamite legacy i think.

Indo-Iranians came from Central Asia and at least partially, originally from Europe and the Elamites were not Africans.

[gültekin]

Indo-Iranians came from Central Asia and at least partially, originally from Europe and the Elamites were not Africans.
South central asia, and S. India admx is a sign for that. Elamite was just an wild guess, but ethnic iranians has still african admx like their western neighboors.(unlike Turks Azerbaijan and Caucasians)

[TheForeigner]

South central asia, and S. India admx is a sign for that. Elamite was just an wild guess, but ethnic iranians has still african admx like their western neighboors.(unlike Turks Azerbaijan and Caucasians)

What does S. Indian ancestry do in South Central Asia?

[TheForeigner]

Do Afghanis and Tajiks also score S.Indian? How did it get so far up north?

[gültekin]

What does S. Indian ancestry do in South Central Asia?
upper indian subcontinent, india is were you can find the Indo language diversity, remnants and cultural continuity

[TheForeigner]

upper indian subcontinent, india is were you can find the Indo language diversity, remnants and cultural continuity

What countries are South-Central Asia?

[gültekin]

What countries are South-Central Asia?

afganistan pakistan and part of iran . agriculturalists

[TheForeigner]

afganistan pakistan and part of iran . agriculturalists

What about NW African and Red Sea? How did those get there?

[gültekin]

What about NW African and Red Sea? How did those get there?
afganistan and pakistan don't have african and red sea as far as i know

[TheForeigner]

afganistan and pakistan don't have african and red sea as far as i know

Why does Iran have it?

[Leto]

Why does Iran have it?
Perhaps from Arabs. I'm 2.4% Red Sea on Eurogenes, lol.

[Leto]

The South Asian component on Eurogenes is 40-50% Gedrosia, which is Caucasoid. Mingle is 32% SA on K13, but only 20% on Dodecad K12b.

[TheForeigner]

Perhaps from Arabs. I'm 2.4% Red Sea on Eurogenes, lol.

Doesn't make you wonder how accurate are these genetic tests and studies?

[TheForeigner]

The South Asian component on Eurogenes is 40-50% Gedrosia, which is Caucasoid. Mingle is 32% SA on K13, but only 20% on Dodecad K12b.

What is the rest of it and how do you think it got out of South Asia?

[Leto]

Doesn't make you wonder how accurate are these genetic tests and studies?
Bro, GEDmatch has a margin of error, everyone knows that. But if you try various calcs and compare your results with those of other people and with the spreadsheets, you'll have a certain idea what you might be. Of course it's not 100% accurate, but still better than nothing.

[Leto]

What is the rest of it and how do you think it got out of South Asia?
Something Australoid-like. South Indian. Fuck knows, man. Perhaps some swarthy farmers used to live on the territory from Iran to India. I think the BMAC were kinda like the Baloch. They are native to Southeastern Iran and Pakistan.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Major_ethnic_groups_of_Pakistan_in_1980_borders_re moved.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2b/53/41/2b534104d191241478c4d2e8ae609ece.jpg
They are dark like a mofo.

[Hadouken]

The South Asian component on Eurogenes is 40-50% Gedrosia, which is Caucasoid.

More like 60-70 %

[Leto]

Balochi from the Dodecad spreadsheet:

Gedrosia 64.44
South Asian 12.09
Southwest Asian 10.29
Caucasus 5.49
Atlantic_Med 3.6
Baltic 2.3
Southeast Asian 0.9
Northwest African 0.5
Siberian 0.4

[Leto]

More like 60-70 %
No. On Dodecad K12b it's completely filtered and looks like 40-50%.

[Hadouken]

No. On Dodecad K12b it's completely filtered and looks like 40-50%.

I meant eurogenes

[Leto]

I meant eurogenes
See for yourself. An Afghan:

South_Asian 16.15 (Dodecad, 100% non-Caucasoid)

South_Asian 25.69 (Eurogenes, partially Caucasoid)

[Leto]

See for yourself. An Afghan:

South_Asian 16.15 (Dodecad, 100% non-Caucasoid)

South_Asian 25.69 (Eurogenes, partially Caucasoid)
A Bangladeshi:

South_Asian 60.80

South_Asian 48.37

[Hadouken]

wouldnt it be better to use the ASI component from k9 for comparison ? those k12b scores seem a little too high for the non caucasoid part which makes me think that the south asian component has some cockassoid in it on k12b

[Leto]

wouldnt it be better to use the ASI component from k9 for comparison ? those k12b scores seem a little too high for the non caucasoid part which makes me think that the south asian component has some cockassoid in it on k12b
K9 is crap, it gives South Asians a lot of Southeast Asian.

What is your percentage on K13 and K12b?

[Hadouken]

K9 is crap, it gives South Asians a lot of Southeast Asian.

What is your percentage on K13 and K12b?

6.8 and 2

[Leto]

6.8 and 2
In your case it looks definitely filtered. 100% non-Caucasoid (K12b).

half Afghan, half white American:

South_Asian 15.54
South_Asian 9.65 (~62% of the Eurogenes percentage)

[War Chef]

New theory:

Gagauz ancestors started speaking Turkish as Lingua franca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca) because that's where the most money was. Trading with Ottomans and speaking their language to buy/sell stuff is more profitable than speaking some Slavic peasant language. So Gagauzes were just very entrepreneurial people speaking Turkish as a business language. I would do the same thing if I lived in Ottoman Balkans, make big moves with the big boys and sell my shit to Istanbul.

[Leto]

Finally we have actual Gagauz samples. Try them yourselves

Z148665
Z694632
Z887657
Z375110
Z501418
Z502959
Z374037
Z887011
Z749500
Z573968


Kit Z374037

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.19
2 North_Atlantic 21.78
3 East_Med 20.73
4 West_Med 18.37
5 West_Asian 12.48
6 Red_Sea 1.54
7 East_Asian 0.99
8 Oceanian 0.5
9 Amerindian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 1.39
2 Romanian 4.01
3 Serbian 8.24
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.35
5 Moldavian 13.61
6 Tuscan 14.52
7 Italian_Abruzzo 14.75
8 Central_Greek 15.03
9 North_Italian 15.62
10 West_Sicilian 16.37
11 Hungarian 16.42
12 East_Sicilian 16.48
13 Croatian 16.58
14 Ashkenazi 18.16
15 Austrian 19.02
16 South_Italian 19.41
17 East_German 20.96
18 Portuguese 21.81
19 French 21.82
20 West_German 22.1


Kit Z502959

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.13
2 East_Med 19.73
3 West_Asian 16.23
4 West_Med 15.34
5 North_Atlantic 14.18
6 Red_Sea 5.34
7 Siberian 1.12
8 Oceanian 0.92

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 9.03
2 Romanian 10.81
3 Greek_Thessaly 13.26
4 Serbian 13.45
5 Moldavian 14.85
6 Central_Greek 18.02
7 Croatian 18.31
8 East_Sicilian 19.35
9 Italian_Abruzzo 19.56
10 Hungarian 20.32
11 Ashkenazi 20.66
12 West_Sicilian 21.53
13 Tuscan 21.79
14 South_Italian 22.66
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 23.17
16 North_Italian 23.92
17 Austrian 24.01
18 Tatar 24.34
19 Ukrainian 24.62
20 South_Polish 24.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.5% Cyprian @ 4.18
2 53.4% Southwest_Russian + 46.6% Cyprian @ 4.7
3 51.1% Russian_Smolensk + 48.9% Cyprian @ 4.74
4 50.3% Erzya + 49.7% Cyprian @ 4.76
5 53.3% Cyprian + 46.7% Lithuanian @ 4.84
6 70.2% Moldavian + 29.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.95
7 71.6% Moldavian + 28.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.98
8 59.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 40.4% Assyrian @ 4.99
9 70.5% Moldavian + 29.5% Assyrian @ 5.04
10 50.1% Kargopol_Russian + 49.9% Cyprian @ 5.07


Kit Z501418

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.89
2 East_Med 23.69
3 West_Med 17.79
4 North_Atlantic 16.98
5 West_Asian 12.72
6 Red_Sea 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 Siberian 0.86
9 Oceanian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.46
2 Greek_Thessaly 7.72
3 Romanian 8.24
4 Serbian 12.09
5 Central_Greek 13.72
6 East_Sicilian 15.02
7 Italian_Abruzzo 15.07
8 Ashkenazi 15.9
9 Moldavian 16.12
10 West_Sicilian 16.41
11 Tuscan 16.54
12 South_Italian 18.21
13 North_Italian 19.1
14 Croatian 19.3
15 Hungarian 20.1
16 Algerian_Jewish 22.96
17 Italian_Jewish 23.29
18 Austrian 23.3
19 Sephardic_Jewish 23.41
20 East_German 25.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% Ukrainian + 49.3% Cyprian @ 2.34
2 58.6% Croatian + 41.4% Cyprian @ 2.8
3 63% Moldavian + 37% Cyprian @ 2.99
4 50.8% South_Polish + 49.2% Cyprian @ 3.08
5 51.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.1% Cyprian @ 3.09
6 52.2% Cyprian + 47.8% Polish @ 3.19
7 71% Central_Greek + 29% Erzya @ 3.31
8 88.8% Bulgarian + 11.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.42
9 88.6% Bulgarian + 11.4% Samaritan @ 3.46
10 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Southwest_Russian @ 3.49

[Leto]

They have less mongoloid than Ukrainians. It's just hilarious. :D

[Hadouken]

why do they get modelled as almost half cypriot + rest ukrainian ?

[Voskos]

why do they get modelled as almost half cypriot + rest ukrainian ?

probably because cypriots are a good proxy for eastern mediterraneans.

[Leto]

Finally we have actual Gagauz samples. Try them yourselves

Z148665
Z694632
Z887657
Z375110
Z501418
Z502959
Z374037
Z887011
Z749500
Z573968


Kit Z374037

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.19
2 North_Atlantic 21.78
3 East_Med 20.73
4 West_Med 18.37
5 West_Asian 12.48
6 Red_Sea 1.54
7 East_Asian 0.99
8 Oceanian 0.5
9 Amerindian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 1.39
2 Romanian 4.01
3 Serbian 8.24
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.35
5 Moldavian 13.61
6 Tuscan 14.52
7 Italian_Abruzzo 14.75
8 Central_Greek 15.03
9 North_Italian 15.62
10 West_Sicilian 16.37
11 Hungarian 16.42
12 East_Sicilian 16.48
13 Croatian 16.58
14 Ashkenazi 18.16
15 Austrian 19.02
16 South_Italian 19.41
17 East_German 20.96
18 Portuguese 21.81
19 French 21.82
20 West_German 22.1


Kit Z502959

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.13
2 East_Med 19.73
3 West_Asian 16.23
4 West_Med 15.34
5 North_Atlantic 14.18
6 Red_Sea 5.34
7 Siberian 1.12
8 Oceanian 0.92

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 9.03
2 Romanian 10.81
3 Greek_Thessaly 13.26
4 Serbian 13.45
5 Moldavian 14.85
6 Central_Greek 18.02
7 Croatian 18.31
8 East_Sicilian 19.35
9 Italian_Abruzzo 19.56
10 Hungarian 20.32
11 Ashkenazi 20.66
12 West_Sicilian 21.53
13 Tuscan 21.79
14 South_Italian 22.66
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 23.17
16 North_Italian 23.92
17 Austrian 24.01
18 Tatar 24.34
19 Ukrainian 24.62
20 South_Polish 24.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.5% Cyprian @ 4.18
2 53.4% Southwest_Russian + 46.6% Cyprian @ 4.7
3 51.1% Russian_Smolensk + 48.9% Cyprian @ 4.74
4 50.3% Erzya + 49.7% Cyprian @ 4.76
5 53.3% Cyprian + 46.7% Lithuanian @ 4.84
6 70.2% Moldavian + 29.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.95
7 71.6% Moldavian + 28.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.98
8 59.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 40.4% Assyrian @ 4.99
9 70.5% Moldavian + 29.5% Assyrian @ 5.04
10 50.1% Kargopol_Russian + 49.9% Cyprian @ 5.07


Kit Z501418

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.89
2 East_Med 23.69
3 West_Med 17.79
4 North_Atlantic 16.98
5 West_Asian 12.72
6 Red_Sea 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 Siberian 0.86
9 Oceanian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.46
2 Greek_Thessaly 7.72
3 Romanian 8.24
4 Serbian 12.09
5 Central_Greek 13.72
6 East_Sicilian 15.02
7 Italian_Abruzzo 15.07
8 Ashkenazi 15.9
9 Moldavian 16.12
10 West_Sicilian 16.41
11 Tuscan 16.54
12 South_Italian 18.21
13 North_Italian 19.1
14 Croatian 19.3
15 Hungarian 20.1
16 Algerian_Jewish 22.96
17 Italian_Jewish 23.29
18 Austrian 23.3
19 Sephardic_Jewish 23.41
20 East_German 25.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% Ukrainian + 49.3% Cyprian @ 2.34
2 58.6% Croatian + 41.4% Cyprian @ 2.8
3 63% Moldavian + 37% Cyprian @ 2.99
4 50.8% South_Polish + 49.2% Cyprian @ 3.08
5 51.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.1% Cyprian @ 3.09
6 52.2% Cyprian + 47.8% Polish @ 3.19
7 71% Central_Greek + 29% Erzya @ 3.31
8 88.8% Bulgarian + 11.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.42
9 88.6% Bulgarian + 11.4% Samaritan @ 3.46
10 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Southwest_Russian @ 3.49
Let's bump for those who haven't seen.

[Kaspias]

Ukrainian + Cyprian is Bulgarian, Balkan Turk and Gagauz proxy.

[Leto]

Ukrainian + Cyprian is Bulgarian, Balkan Turk and Gagauz proxy.
Their mongoloid percentage is really low. Almost entirely linguistic assimilation, so it seems.

[Veles]

Mysterious people. I want to believe that they are descendants of the Pechenegs.

[Not a Cop]

They have less mongoloid than Ukrainians. It's just hilarious. :D

Whats hilarious about it?

[Kaspias]

Their mongoloid percentage is really low. Almost entirely linguistic assimilation, so it seems.

Gagauz people from Western Thrace have about 4%. They were first settlers to Balkans so it is expected they have less EE than typical Balkan Turks. I don't think it is linguistic assimilation. Some Gagauz people migrated to Turkey afterwards although they're Christians.

[Leto]

Whats hilarious about it?
Because people tend equate Turkic with Mongoloid. Did you forget Gagauz is an Oghuz Turkic language (the same branch as Turkish, Azerbaijani and Turkmen). Anyway, that post is more than a year old.

[Leto]

Gagauz people from Western Thrace have about 4%. They were first settlers to Balkans so it is expected they have less EE than typical Balkan Turks. I don't think it is linguistic assimilation. Some Gagauz people migrated to Turkey afterwards although they're Christians.
I don't understand. I guess the thread is about the proper Gagauz of Moldova.

[War Chef]

My theory why they speak Turkish is because they used it during Ottoman times to make $$$ as a lingua franca trade-language, then the language just stuck. Making big trade deals with the Ottoman$. Gagauz people came from here before Catherine The Great kicked out the Nogais from Moldova and gave them land:

https://i.imgur.com/N2SBvQZ.png


According to Prof. Bozhidar Dimitrov 'the archaeological excavations show that Kaliakra has been settled by Bulgars. Nowadays their descendants live near the cape in the village of Bulgarevo and are part of the Gagauz ethnic group by calling themselves ‘eski bulgar’ - old Bulgarians.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balgarevo

[Veles]

Because people tend equate Turkic with Mongoloid. Did you forget Gagauz is an Oghuz Turkic language (the same branch as Turkish, Azerbaijani and Turkmen). Anyway, that post is more than a year old.
To identify the Siberian component with Mongoloid is not funny? The Siberian component is tens of thousands of years old. Anthropological Mongoloid several thousand years.

[Leto]

To identify the Siberian component with Mongoloid is not funny? The Siberian component is tens of thousands of years old. Anthropological Mongoloid several thousand years.
Stop picking on me with this, this isn't fucking Anthrogenica. You're a sockpuppet of Krivich/AlexRus. Socks are not allowed by the rules of TA, you are a banned user, you shouldn't be here to begin with.

[Veles]

Stop picking on me with this, this isn't fucking Anthrogenica. You're a sockpuppet of Krivich/AlexRus. Socks are not allowed by the rules of TA, you are a banned user, you shouldn't be here to begin with.
You act like a hysterical fagot ...

[War Chef]

By the way Gagauz are one of the most illiterate and uneducated groups in the Balkans, only serious contenders the Albanians and Kurds. That might be why they didn't bother to record their recent history but leave others (Bulgarians, Poles) to figure it out. Real peasants.

[Mimi]

By the way Gagauz are one of the most illiterate and uneducated groups in the Balkans, only serious contenders the Albanians and Kurds. That might be why they didn't bother to record their recent history but leave others (Bulgarians, Poles) to figure it out. Real peasants.

Kurds in the Balkan??

[Zmey Gorynych]

These results confirm what I was saying from the beginning: Gagauz are just bulgarians.

[Cumansky]

Finally we have actual Gagauz samples. Try them yourselves

Z148665
Z694632
Z887657
Z375110
Z501418
Z502959
Z374037
Z887011
Z749500
Z573968


Kit Z374037

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.19
2 North_Atlantic 21.78
3 East_Med 20.73
4 West_Med 18.37
5 West_Asian 12.48
6 Red_Sea 1.54
7 East_Asian 0.99
8 Oceanian 0.5
9 Amerindian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 1.39
2 Romanian 4.01
3 Serbian 8.24
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.35
5 Moldavian 13.61
6 Tuscan 14.52
7 Italian_Abruzzo 14.75
8 Central_Greek 15.03
9 North_Italian 15.62
10 West_Sicilian 16.37
11 Hungarian 16.42
12 East_Sicilian 16.48
13 Croatian 16.58
14 Ashkenazi 18.16
15 Austrian 19.02
16 South_Italian 19.41
17 East_German 20.96
18 Portuguese 21.81
19 French 21.82
20 West_German 22.1


Kit Z502959

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.13
2 East_Med 19.73
3 West_Asian 16.23
4 West_Med 15.34
5 North_Atlantic 14.18
6 Red_Sea 5.34
7 Siberian 1.12
8 Oceanian 0.92

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 9.03
2 Romanian 10.81
3 Greek_Thessaly 13.26
4 Serbian 13.45
5 Moldavian 14.85
6 Central_Greek 18.02
7 Croatian 18.31
8 East_Sicilian 19.35
9 Italian_Abruzzo 19.56
10 Hungarian 20.32
11 Ashkenazi 20.66
12 West_Sicilian 21.53
13 Tuscan 21.79
14 South_Italian 22.66
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 23.17
16 North_Italian 23.92
17 Austrian 24.01
18 Tatar 24.34
19 Ukrainian 24.62
20 South_Polish 24.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.5% Cyprian @ 4.18
2 53.4% Southwest_Russian + 46.6% Cyprian @ 4.7
3 51.1% Russian_Smolensk + 48.9% Cyprian @ 4.74
4 50.3% Erzya + 49.7% Cyprian @ 4.76
5 53.3% Cyprian + 46.7% Lithuanian @ 4.84
6 70.2% Moldavian + 29.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.95
7 71.6% Moldavian + 28.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.98
8 59.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 40.4% Assyrian @ 4.99
9 70.5% Moldavian + 29.5% Assyrian @ 5.04
10 50.1% Kargopol_Russian + 49.9% Cyprian @ 5.07


Kit Z501418

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.89
2 East_Med 23.69
3 West_Med 17.79
4 North_Atlantic 16.98
5 West_Asian 12.72
6 Red_Sea 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 Siberian 0.86
9 Oceanian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.46
2 Greek_Thessaly 7.72
3 Romanian 8.24
4 Serbian 12.09
5 Central_Greek 13.72
6 East_Sicilian 15.02
7 Italian_Abruzzo 15.07
8 Ashkenazi 15.9
9 Moldavian 16.12
10 West_Sicilian 16.41
11 Tuscan 16.54
12 South_Italian 18.21
13 North_Italian 19.1
14 Croatian 19.3
15 Hungarian 20.1
16 Algerian_Jewish 22.96
17 Italian_Jewish 23.29
18 Austrian 23.3
19 Sephardic_Jewish 23.41
20 East_German 25.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% Ukrainian + 49.3% Cyprian @ 2.34
2 58.6% Croatian + 41.4% Cyprian @ 2.8
3 63% Moldavian + 37% Cyprian @ 2.99
4 50.8% South_Polish + 49.2% Cyprian @ 3.08
5 51.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.1% Cyprian @ 3.09
6 52.2% Cyprian + 47.8% Polish @ 3.19
7 71% Central_Greek + 29% Erzya @ 3.31
8 88.8% Bulgarian + 11.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.42
9 88.6% Bulgarian + 11.4% Samaritan @ 3.46
10 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Southwest_Russian @ 3.49

Gagauz are Turkic Oghuz that dropped Islam, they are most eastern genetically distinct Balkan group. Even Balkan people for this reason like to call them Gypsys. In reality they been there long time first group that assimilated them was Vlachs in middle ages. I match all these kits

[Aspirin]

Gagauz from Moldova.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2zhjLvx1mA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuF4bSGqZFI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfleQzntvNo

[Cumansky]

Who match Gagauz 10 kits?

[War Chef]

Who match Gagauz 10 kits?


I match the last kit, we share a 15cm long gene,

[Cumansky]

Cumansky (Kit Z375110)

Largest segment = 7.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 48.6 cM (1.355 Pct)

16 shared segments found for this comparison.

260696 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.291 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.227 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.033 cpu seconds.

Ver: Feb 27 2019 03:13:01

Cumansky Uncle (Kit Z375110)

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 60.9 cM (1.700 Pct)

25 shared segments found for this comparison.

259067 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.266 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.283 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.031 cpu seconds.

Ver: Feb 27 2019 03:13:01

[Cumansky]

I match the last kit, we share a 15cm long gene,

I match 10/10

[Seya]

I match the last kit, we share a 15cm long gene,

me too but with the first one

Z148665 - Largest segment = 23.7 cM
- Total of segments > 7 cM = 23.7 cM

[Impaler]

Cumansky (kit Z375110)

Largest segment = 7.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 48.6 cM (1.355 Pct)

16 shared segments found for this comparison.

260696 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.291 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.227 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.033 cpu seconds.

Ver: Feb 27 2019 03:13:01

Cumansky Uncle (Kit Z375110)

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 60.9 cM (1.700 Pct)

25 shared segments found for this comparison.

259067 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.266 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.283 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.031 cpu seconds.

Ver: Feb 27 2019 03:13:01

Where are the kit numbers?

[Seya]

Where are the kit numbers?

Z148665
Z694632
Z887657
Z375110
Z501418
Z502959
Z374037
Z887011
Z749500
Z573968

[Cumansky]

Finally we have actual Gagauz samples. Try them yourselves

Z148665
Z694632
Z887657
Z375110
Z501418
Z502959
Z374037
Z887011
Z749500
Z573968


Kit Z374037

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.19
2 North_Atlantic 21.78
3 East_Med 20.73
4 West_Med 18.37
5 West_Asian 12.48
6 Red_Sea 1.54
7 East_Asian 0.99
8 Oceanian 0.5
9 Amerindian 0.38
10 Siberian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 1.39
2 Romanian 4.01
3 Serbian 8.24
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.35
5 Moldavian 13.61
6 Tuscan 14.52
7 Italian_Abruzzo 14.75
8 Central_Greek 15.03
9 North_Italian 15.62
10 West_Sicilian 16.37
11 Hungarian 16.42
12 East_Sicilian 16.48
13 Croatian 16.58
14 Ashkenazi 18.16
15 Austrian 19.02
16 South_Italian 19.41
17 East_German 20.96
18 Portuguese 21.81
19 French 21.82
20 West_German 22.1


Kit Z502959

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 27.13
2 East_Med 19.73
3 West_Asian 16.23
4 West_Med 15.34
5 North_Atlantic 14.18
6 Red_Sea 5.34
7 Siberian 1.12
8 Oceanian 0.92

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 9.03
2 Romanian 10.81
3 Greek_Thessaly 13.26
4 Serbian 13.45
5 Moldavian 14.85
6 Central_Greek 18.02
7 Croatian 18.31
8 East_Sicilian 19.35
9 Italian_Abruzzo 19.56
10 Hungarian 20.32
11 Ashkenazi 20.66
12 West_Sicilian 21.53
13 Tuscan 21.79
14 South_Italian 22.66
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 23.17
16 North_Italian 23.92
17 Austrian 24.01
18 Tatar 24.34
19 Ukrainian 24.62
20 South_Polish 24.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 46.5% Cyprian @ 4.18
2 53.4% Southwest_Russian + 46.6% Cyprian @ 4.7
3 51.1% Russian_Smolensk + 48.9% Cyprian @ 4.74
4 50.3% Erzya + 49.7% Cyprian @ 4.76
5 53.3% Cyprian + 46.7% Lithuanian @ 4.84
6 70.2% Moldavian + 29.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.95
7 71.6% Moldavian + 28.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.98
8 59.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 40.4% Assyrian @ 4.99
9 70.5% Moldavian + 29.5% Assyrian @ 5.04
10 50.1% Kargopol_Russian + 49.9% Cyprian @ 5.07


Kit Z501418

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.89
2 East_Med 23.69
3 West_Med 17.79
4 North_Atlantic 16.98
5 West_Asian 12.72
6 Red_Sea 2.96
7 South_Asian 1.1
8 Siberian 0.86
9 Oceanian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.46
2 Greek_Thessaly 7.72
3 Romanian 8.24
4 Serbian 12.09
5 Central_Greek 13.72
6 East_Sicilian 15.02
7 Italian_Abruzzo 15.07
8 Ashkenazi 15.9
9 Moldavian 16.12
10 West_Sicilian 16.41
11 Tuscan 16.54
12 South_Italian 18.21
13 North_Italian 19.1
14 Croatian 19.3
15 Hungarian 20.1
16 Algerian_Jewish 22.96
17 Italian_Jewish 23.29
18 Austrian 23.3
19 Sephardic_Jewish 23.41
20 East_German 25.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% Ukrainian + 49.3% Cyprian @ 2.34
2 58.6% Croatian + 41.4% Cyprian @ 2.8
3 63% Moldavian + 37% Cyprian @ 2.99
4 50.8% South_Polish + 49.2% Cyprian @ 3.08
5 51.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 48.1% Cyprian @ 3.09
6 52.2% Cyprian + 47.8% Polish @ 3.19
7 71% Central_Greek + 29% Erzya @ 3.31
8 88.8% Bulgarian + 11.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.42
9 88.6% Bulgarian + 11.4% Samaritan @ 3.46
10 68.1% Central_Greek + 31.9% Southwest_Russian @ 3.49

Kit #s

[Impaler]

I match with all. But the biggest segment with the second one: 7,9 cM.

[Impaler]

Kit #s

I wonder why they do not score Mongoloid. I score around 3% on K13.

[Cumansky]

I wonder why they do not score Mongoloid. I score around 3% on K13.

Gagauz are low Mongoloid Turkic people..

For me, 2.86% Mongoloid K13

[War Chef]

me too but with the first one

Z148665 - Largest segment = 23.7 cM
- Total of segments > 7 cM = 23.7 cM

What's your kit #? maybe you match with me.

[War Chef]

M011100 is my #

See if any of you match with me (1/2 Gagauz)

[Seya]

M011100 is my #

See if any of you match with me (1/2 Gagauz)

nope :) i don't

[Impaler]

We match :)

Largest segment = 7.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 7.7 cM (0.215 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.4

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

173743 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.369 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Cumansky]

M011100 is my #

See if any of you match with me (1/2 Gagauz)

4.3 CM

[Cumansky]

M011100 is my #

See if any of you match with me (1/2 Gagauz)

Comparing Kit ????????? (Enrico Thracian) [Ancestry] and M011100 (*D??????) [Migration - V3 - M]

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 155.7 cM (4.341 Pct)

74 shared segments found for this comparison.

423289 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.802 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.313 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.050 cpu seconds.

Ver: Feb 27 2019 03:13:01

[indo-uralopean]

https://i.postimg.cc/tgPZB1C3/gaguaz.png (https://postimages.org/)

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2017-4/eng_Gagauzes1_4_2017iv17_4_[1_2]_4_BEHPS_2017_4_1.pdf

[War Chef]

https://i.postimg.cc/tgPZB1C3/gaguaz.png (https://postimages.org/)

http://suyun.info/userfiles/bulletin/2017-4/eng_Gagauzes1_4_2017iv17_4_[1_2]_4_BEHPS_2017_4_1.pdf

That's bullshit. Even Moldovans, the same ones who insult Gagauz with names like "tatar" etc are WAY more mongoloid than Gagauzes themself. Ironic because Gagauzes are like 0.5% mongoloid and moldovans up to 4-5%

[Leto]

That's bullshit. Even Moldovans, the same ones who insult Gagauz with names like "tatar" etc are WAY more mongoloid than Gagauzes themself. Ironic because Gagauzes are like 0.5% mongoloid and moldovans up to 4-5%
See this

Alright, I've done it myself - here is the Gagauz average based on 12 academic samples:

Average (n=12)

North_Atlantic 19.35
Baltic 23.14
West_Med 17.99
West_Asian 12.57
East_Med 21.48
Red_Sea 2.9
South_Asian 0.52
East_Asian 0.25
Siberian 0.69
Amerindian 0.40
Oceanian 0.64
Northeast_African 0.06
Sub-Saharan 0.00

An interesting note - 2-3 samples were as much as 5 percent (!) Red Sea. Probably some misread East Med.
The Mongoloid is extremely low - ca. 1%.
Overall they are hardcore Balkanites/SE Europeans.

[Zzzzz]

Very interesting thread. I was curious to compare me to the kits and War Chief although I have only one great grandma from where Gagauz people inhabit \ Varna region\. I match 3 of the kits, the most significant is Z887011 - Largest segment = 10.5 cM. As for War Chief it is also a match -
Largest segment = 7.1 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 7.1 cM (0.198 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

See this

The Mongoloid is extremely low - ca. 1%.
Overall they are hardcore Balkanites/SE Europeans.

Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.10 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.37 Pct
Amerindian 1.36 Pct
Oceanian 0.22 Pct

I score a lot more than them with no known Turkic/Tatar/Gagauz history.

Also 6.5cM shared with War Chief on C14.

[Seya]

Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.10 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.37 Pct
Amerindian 1.36 Pct
Oceanian 0.22 Pct

I score a lot more than them with no known Turkic/Tatar/Gagauz history.

Also 6.5cM shared with War Chief on C14.
Red_Sea - 3.73 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian - 1.06 Pct
Siberian 2.75 Pct
Amerindian 1.56 Pct
Oceanian -

:D

[PAGANE]

The Gagauz are not Turkic in origin. They only speak Turkic. The Turkic language they speak is typical of the Balkans and, more precisely, an Ottoman-Turkish version and there is good reason for it. Linguistic analysis shows that the Kuman, Pechene, and Uzi languages are from a completely different branch of the Turkic family than the Gagauz-language (Turkish) dialect. Significant is the fact that no trace of Anatolian origin is preserved in their folklore

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Red_Sea - 3.73 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian - 1.06 Pct
Siberian 2.75 Pct
Amerindian 1.56 Pct
Oceanian -

:D

Damn, your great-great-grandpa was a Siberian Khan.

[Seya]

Damn, your great-great-grandpa was a Siberian Khan.

http://englishrussia.com/images/raw_deer/1.jpg

[itilvolga]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--qycc-dggM0/WrFsxE_8lsI/AAAAAAAAA3k/XxgNoCKW-K0i-vziOapF6CoN0_BBurdVACLcBGAs/s1600/EurogenesK13-2.png

[War Chef]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--qycc-dggM0/WrFsxE_8lsI/AAAAAAAAA3k/XxgNoCKW-K0i-vziOapF6CoN0_BBurdVACLcBGAs/s1600/EurogenesK13-2.png

Sofia is really close to the Serbian border - most western Bulgarians pull towards Yugoslavs. Eastern coast Bulgarians are less Slavic and more Med than other Bulgarians, and that's where Gagauz cluster. Gagauz are from here and surrounding villages originally: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balchik

Before that some say Turkey, but the genetics isn't really pointing there. I think maybe they used Turkish as a trade language during ottoman times and it stuck.

[Leto]

Sofia is really close to the Serbian border - most western Bulgarians pull towards Yugoslavs. Eastern coast Bulgarians are less Slavic and more Med than other Bulgarians, and that's where Gagauz cluster. Gagauz are from here and surrounding villages originally: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balchik

Before that some say Turkey, but the genetics isn't really pointing there. I think maybe they used Turkish as a trade language during ottoman times and it stuck.
Interesting. Are you maternally Gagauz?

[Leto]

M011100 is my #

See if any of you match with me (1/2 Gagauz)
Interesting mix. 96.6% Caucasoid (Harappa)

Population
S-Indian -
Baloch 10.78 Pct
Caucasian 35.48 Pct
NE-Euro 36.19 Pct
SE-Asian -
Siberian 2.66 Pct
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.74 Pct
American -
Beringian -
Mediterranean 11.34 Pct
SW-Asian 2.81 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

50% ukranian (yunusbayev) + 50% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 3.64

[ixulescu]

The Gagauz people are Turkic people, but are also Orthodox Christians and cluster genetically with other Balkaners. But they are still Turkic. So how much Mongoloid admixture do they have? I am 1/4 Gagauz myself and have not been dna tested, so I have no idea myself.

Gagauz are not Turkic people. They are Turkified Eastern Balkanites, and more recently Russified. They cluster with Romanians and Bulgarians, and if we consider only South Eastern Romanians (which are Gagauzes' neighbors) then the overlap is probably full.

[Mingle]

They don't have any Turkic admixture. They get marginally above noise levels of East Eurasian (Mongoloid), but so do many/most West Eurasians. So their East Eurasian ancestry is probably from Proto-Indo-Europeans, similar to other West Eurasians that get around 1% EE. If they have any Turkic admixture, then its going to be ancient admixture from before their Turkification since they don't have more EE than Romanians or Bulgarians (in many cases even less than them).

[War Chef]

^ That's why I say they were most likely opportunists during the Ottoman-Balkan era. I like the sound of that better than being cucked and spoon-fed a language.

Lots of Balkaners converted to Islam because it gave them special privileges, in the Gagauz case it's possible they spoke Turkish because it gave them some sort of benefit (trade, commerce, etc.). We will never know because they were illiterate communal farmers and fisherman who didn't write down anything.

The resident Turks of the forum will call me a self-hater, but they like to write other people's history. Please spare me your B/S.