Are there genetic differences between different countries' Ashkenazi Jews?

[Bobby Martnen]

Like between Poland, Germany, and Russia?

[Leto]

I don't think there are any significant differences between unmixed Jews in those countries.

[Sp_loa]

Usually not.. surprisingly enough you cannot say the same thing about Sephardim from different countries (for example Bosnia and Algeria although they might be still very similar) and Mizrahim from different countries (Iraq and Uzbekistan)

[Anglojew]

Great question.

Russian (former USSR) Ashkenazi Jews look different from Polish Ashkenazi Jews so there must be some differences

[Lucas]

Great question.

Russian (former USSR) Ashkenazi Jews look different from Polish Ashkenazi Jews so there must be some differences

Yes there are. This is PCA based on academic Jewish samples (not Gedmatch kits). Using K36 values.
I used names from papers.
Biggest suprise is huge gap between Syrian Jews and Iraqi Jews averages. Possibly Syrians here are mostly Sephardi not Mizrahi?

https://s14.postimg.org/i7db0g1wh/Bez-nazwy-2.png

[Sp_loa]

Yes there are. This is PCA based on academic Jewish samples (not Gedmatch kits). Using K36 values.
I used names from papers.
Biggest suprise is huge gap between Syrian Jews and Iraqi Jews averages. Possibly Syrians here are mostly Sephardi not Mizrahi?

https://s14.postimg.org/i7db0g1wh/Bez-nazwy-2.png


Syrian Jews are like Moroccan Jews from the Atlas region- mixed group. They mix of Sephardim and Mizrahim.

[Bobby Martnen]

Yes there are. This is PCA based on academic Jewish samples (not Gedmatch kits). Using K36 values.
I used names from papers.
Biggest suprise is huge gap between Syrian Jews and Iraqi Jews averages. Possibly Syrians here are mostly Sephardi not Mizrahi?

https://s14.postimg.org/i7db0g1wh/Bez-nazwy-2.png

Which direction on that PCA is a European shift?

[Sikeliot]

Yes.

There was a study showing Russian Jews are more European (and slightly closer to Abruzzese) than German Jews are, who are flat out like Sicilians.

[AK-47]

My 23andMe results sure seem different than the average Ashkenazi.
I would have a sit-down with my grandparents, but they're all dead. :D

[Bobby Martnen]

My 23andMe results sure seem different than the average Ashkenazi.
I would have a sit-down with my grandparents, but they're all dead. :D

Can you post your results here?

[Bobby Martnen]

Yes.

There was a study showing Russian Jews are more European (and slightly closer to Abruzzese) than German Jews are, who are flat out like Sicilians.

Do you think that explains why Michael Bolton looks Central European (his grandparents were Russian Jews)

https://www.shropshirestar.com/resizer/YvLQ_nFxvBYziT20Tb6LI0S9unU=/1000x0/filters:quality(100)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-shropshirestar-mna.s3.amazonaws.com/public/777EFCV3KNHWHLOH247QF625II

[AK-47]

Do you think that explains why Michael Bolton looks Central European (his grandparents were Russian Jews)

https://www.shropshirestar.com/resizer/YvLQ_nFxvBYziT20Tb6LI0S9unU=/1000x0/filters:quality(100)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-shropshirestar-mna.s3.amazonaws.com/public/777EFCV3KNHWHLOH247QF625II
My family all claimed to be Ashkenazi Jews.
That certainly has turned out to be BS.
Who knows what ACTUAL admixture is in Michael Bolton's woodpile...

[Sikeliot]

My family all claimed to be Ashkenazi Jews.
That certainly has turned out to be BS.
Who knows what ACTUAL admixture is in Michael Bolton's woodpile...


I always assumed Jews who look more European simply had higher Italic ancestry, but you didn't, you just have actual recent British. :lol:

[Bobby Martnen]

I always assumed Jews who look more European simply had higher Italic ancestry, but you didn't, you just have actual recent British. :lol:

I know someone who is 1/4 North Italian, 3/4 Ashkenazi, and she looks very Norid.

[Lucas]

Which direction on that PCA is a European shift?

On this plot Dutch Ashkenzi are most NW-euro mixed.

Sephardi Portugal most Iberian.

[Aren]

Yes there are. This is PCA based on academic Jewish samples (not Gedmatch kits). Using K36 values.
I used names from papers.
Biggest suprise is huge gap between Syrian Jews and Iraqi Jews averages. Possibly Syrians here are mostly Sephardi not Mizrahi?

https://s14.postimg.org/i7db0g1wh/Bez-nazwy-2.png

What's the deal with Iraqi Jews? They are eastern shifted but at the same time closer to Samaritan? High Near Eastern and low East Med?

Also can it be for real say someone like Lisa Kudrow to actually plot south of Sicilians? She's Belarussian Ashkenazy she must have some Slavic blood?

[Sikeliot]

What's the deal with Iraqi Jews? They are eastern shifted but at the same time closer to Samaritan? High Near Eastern and low East Med?

Also can it be for real say someone like Lisa Kudrow to actually plot south of Sicilians? She's Belarussian Ashkenazy she must have some Slavic blood?


French and German Ashkenazim plot close to where Sicilians would be on that plot, if that is any indication.

[Sikeliot]

There are also Sicilians who look like Lisa Kudrow. And they have as much Near Eastern input as people who look more stereotypically Sicilian.

The difference in MENA genes between these two people is likely low:

http://static.fanpage.it/tvfanpage/wp-content/uploads/gallery/gabriel-garko-sul-set-di-faccia-d039angelo/medium_110217-174352_to111209spe_0007.jpg
http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/Teresa_Mannino_3.jpg

[Aren]

There are also Sicilians who look like Lisa Kudrow. And they have as much Near Eastern input as people who look more stereotypically Sicilian.

The difference in MENA genes between these two people is likely low:

http://static.fanpage.it/tvfanpage/wp-content/uploads/gallery/gabriel-garko-sul-set-di-faccia-d039angelo/medium_110217-174352_to111209spe_0007.jpg
http://biografieonline.it/img/bio/Teresa_Mannino_3.jpg

Yeah auDNA is not always indicative. But there seems to be more northern looking Ashkenazy than Sicilians. Wouldn't you say?

[Sikeliot]

Yeah auDNA is not always indicative. But there seems to be more northern looking Ashkenazy than Sicilians. Wouldn't you say?

Yes.

There was no selection pressure for Sicilians to look unrecognizably something that was oppressed in a foreign host society, and it is also likely the more "Levantine" looking Jews were singled out more easily in pogroms and other genocidal events.

Sicilians did not experience anything like this. I attribute any phenotypical differences to that, as well as Greek input in Sicily.

[Aren]

Yes.

There was no selection pressure for Sicilians to look unrecognizably something that was oppressed in a foreign host society, and it is also likely the more "Levantine" looking Jews were singled out more easily in pogroms and other genocidal events.

Sicilians did not experience anything like this. I attribute any phenotypical differences to that, as well as Greek input in Sicily.

I've not thought of this before but this sounds very probable.
So there's no evidence of additional European admix in Ashkenazy Jews other than the Italian part?

[Sikeliot]

I've not thought of this before but this sounds very probable.
So there's no evidence of additional European admix in Ashkenazy Jews other than the Italian part?

Correct.

[Bobby Martnen]

Correct.

I thought they had like 5% more of Baltic/East Euro-type ancestry than Sicilians (who have slightly more West Med and North Atlantic).