2 interesting Eurogenes K36 result for a Sicilian from Villarosa, Enna province

[Sikeliot]

This is interesting to me because their main component is not Italian or East Med, but "Near Eastern". What is the difference between these three components exactly?



Amerindian -
Arabian 0.71
Armenian 2.34
Basque 1.35
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.79
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 2.25
East_Med 12.60
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 2.46
Iberian 10.18
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 15.39
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 21.23
North_African 4.50
North_Atlantic 0.52
North_Caucasian 8.43
North_Sea 1.66
Northeast_African 0.35
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 0.38
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.04
West_Med 5.79




Then this one has roughly equal amounts of the three components. This person is from the same village.

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 3.28
Armenian 8.10
Basque 1.47
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.53
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 0.32
East_Med 15.50
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 4.80
Iberian 8.87
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 18.66
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 15.63
North_African 2.72
North_Atlantic 2.58
North_Caucasian 0.33
North_Sea 5.25
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 1.33
West_Med 4.62

[Bobby Martnen]

No clue, Peterski might know, though. You should ask him.

[Teucer]

Maybe Near Eastern is Anatolia and East Med the Levant?

[Sikeliot]

Maybe Near Eastern is Anatolia and East Med the Levant?

I think Near Eastern is associated more with Arabia and Egypt, because I ran through an Egyptian Copt who gets 26% (it is their top component, with East Med at 24% being the next highest) and a Palestinian Christian scored 29% (East Med 28%). Then I put a Turk from eastern Turkey in and they got only 14%.

It's definitely an Afroasiatic component from further south in the Middle East, likely linked to "Red Sea" on Eurogenes or "SW Asian" on Dodecad.

[Coolguy1]

Both of the components are essentially identical in terms of what they are made of. They are more or less interchangeable.

Italian is derived more from neolithic farmers, which is why Mycenaean samples score so much of it.

[Sikeliot]

Both of the components are essentially identical in terms of what they are made of. They are more or less interchangeable.

East Med and Near Eastern?

How much do you score of each?

[Coolguy1]

East Med and Near Eastern?

How much do you score of each?

Yes

East_Med 13.80
Near_Eastern 9.23

[Aren]

Near Eastern is high in all Middle Easterners I don't think it has a distinctive peak. I score 26% and that's high for an Assyrian, this woman scores almost as much as the Assyrian average.

[Coolguy1]

East med peaks in Druze at 61.43 while near eastern peaks in Samaritans at 28.88

[Sikeliot]

Near Eastern is high in all Middle Easterners I don't think it has a distinctive peak. I score 26% and that's high for an Assyrian, this woman scores almost as much as the Assyrian average.

This is where they are both from.

I read somewhere that during Norman rule, a lot of Muslims took refuge in the Sicilian countryside and moved inland, and eventually assimilated and became Christian.

https://www.weather-forecast.com/locationmaps/Enna.8.gif

[Sikeliot]

East med peaks in Druze at 61.43 while near eastern peaks in Samaritans at 28.88

So neither one was likely brought to Sicily by Muslims but is an ancient Levantine component.

[Coolguy1]

So neither one was likely brought to Sicily by Muslims but is an ancient Levantine component.

Mycenaeans had both, but modern day Sicilians still have elevated levels of both indicating more middle east ancestry. Sicilians can be modeled usually as 60% Mycenaean, 10% north European, and the rest levantine/caucausus. No other model works with such precision.

[Sikeliot]

Mycenaeans had both, but modern day Sicilians still have elevated levels of both indicating more middle east ancestry. Sicilians can be modeled usually as 60% Mycenaean, 10% north European, and the rest levantine/caucausus. No other model works with such precision.

The 10% North European is probably any Germanic input that exists.

[Coolguy1]

The 10% North European is probably any Germanic input that exists.

I strongly doubt it, since Greek islanders require it too to make a good fit. This means that it came after the Mycenaeans, but before the Slavs. In reality, it is most likely extra steppe influence that arrived to southern Europe after the initial migration that contributed to the Mycenaeans. There is an Iron age Bulgarian sample that is similar to Mycenaeans but has even more steppe input.

[Leto]

No clue, Peterski might know, though. You should ask him.
What is your opinion on their whiteness? They are W.O.G. to me (Westernized Oriental Gentlemen) to me. Or Gentiles, lol. :lol:

[Sikeliot]

I strongly doubt it, since Greek islanders require it too to make a good fit. This means that it came after the Mycenaeans, but before the Slavs. In reality, it is most likely extra steppe influence that arrived to southern Europe after the initial migration that contributed to the Mycenaeans. There is an Iron age Bulgarian sample that is similar to Mycenaeans but has even more steppe input.

I am guessing the only difference between Aegean islanders is you would model them with more Caucasian input and less Arabian/Levantine when compared to Sicily.

[Aren]

Sikeliot, here's a quick PCA with the two Sicilians. One plots right on the Chios sample and the other in the middle of all Sicilian samples

https://i.imgur.com/HUnbCuC.png

[Coolguy1]

I am guessing the only difference between Aegean islanders is you would model them with more Caucasian input and less Arabian/Levantine when compared to Sicily.

Both models seem to work well for both, but Sicilians tend to have higher North African.

[Sikeliot]

Sikeliot, here's a quick PCA with the two Sicilians. One plots right on the Chios sample and the other in the middle of all Sicilian samples

https://i.imgur.com/HUnbCuC.png


Sicilians have a lot of variation. There are some who would be near the Sephardim also, and some Calabrese also.

[Lavrentis]

https://i.imgur.com/HUnbCuC.png

So Cretans are closer to Jews than Sicilians are. I wonder who has more Caucasus between Cretans and Sicilians.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sikeliot]

So Cretans are closer to Jews than Sicilians are. I wonder who has more Caucasus between Cretans and Sicilians.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am unsure where that plot comes from but I have seen that switch around. Sicily is very varied. There are some who would be over near the Sephardim and then others closer to Peloponnese, and that whole gap in between.

The Dodecanese sample is 1 Rhodian person, but as you see the Kalymnians are further back.

[Lavrentis]

Btw different maps give different results. In this map below Cretans are closer to Jews, but Sicilians are closer to ‘Levant’ and Cyprus:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180504/21587befc7ff435a29724197e69c0860.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sikeliot]

Btw different maps give different results. In this map below Cretans are closer to Jews, but Sicilians are closer to ‘Levant’ and Cyprus:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180504/21587befc7ff435a29724197e69c0860.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



When "Caucasian" and "Levantine" populations are more clearly separated, Sicilians go toward the Levant and Jews, and Greek islanders toward the Caucasus. When West Asians are homogenized into one cluster, you see more division because Greek islanders have more Caucasian but less Saudi/Egyptian type admixture.

[Aren]

I am unsure where that plot comes from but I have seen that switch around. Sicily is very varied. There are some who would be over near the Sephardim and then others closer to Peloponnese, and that whole gap in between.

The Dodecanese sample is 1 Rhodian person, but as you see the Kalymnians are further back.

The Ashekanzi are pulling away from Sicily and south Italy because of more Eastern Euro and slightly more Near Eastern/West Asian input. Sicily is slightly closer to NW Euros, but the Greek Islanders are about as close to Eastern Euros as Sicilians are, if not closer.

[Sikeliot]

The Ashekanzi are pulling away from Sicily and south Italy because of more Eastern Euro and slightly more Near Eastern/West Asian input. Sicily is slightly closer to NW Euros, but the Greek Islanders are about as close to Eastern Euros as Sicilians are, if not closer.

It varies by plot. In general though one can say that Aegean islands and Sicily are more similar than not, with some islands and regions being closer to the opposite (you often see Caltanissetta/Enna going more toward Greek islanders rather than other Sicilians, Trapani as an outlier, and Syracuse toward mainland Greeks) and sometimes the Cyclades are closer to Sicilians than to other Greek islands.

[Aren]

Btw different maps give different results. In this map below Cretans are closer to Jews, but Sicilians are closer to ‘Levant’ and Cyprus:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180504/21587befc7ff435a29724197e69c0860.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In my plot they are closer to Levantines aswell, it's just I had to zoom in on the South Italian mega-cluster so Levantines don't make it. The Jordan sample is simply wrong and atypical(12% Italian, only 17% East Med).

[Lavrentis]

When "Caucasian" and "Levantine" populations are more clearly separated, Sicilians go toward the Levant and Jews, and Greek islanders toward the Caucasus. When West Asians are homogenized into one cluster, you see more division because Greek islanders have more Caucasian but less Saudi/Egyptian type admixture.

But I’m pretty sure that Cretans are closer to Jews than to Caucasus people


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sikeliot]

But I’m pretty sure that Cretans are closer to Jews than to Caucasus people


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If Sarno et al is any indication, Cretans were slightly more Caucasian, slightly more Steppe, and slightly less "Near Eastern" than Sicilians. I am not sure how they would compare to Ashkenazim.

[Lavrentis]

If Sarno et al is any indication, Cretans were slightly more Caucasian, slightly more Steppe, and slightly less "Near Eastern" than Sicilians. I am not sure how they would compare to Ashkenazim.

Oh I see thanks. I assume that Ashkenazim are more Steppe/North European and more Near Eastern than Cretans. Or about the same. The Cretans from GEDmatch cluster with both Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sikeliot]

Oh I see thanks. I assume that Ashkenazim are more Steppe/North European and more Near Eastern than Cretans. Or about the same. The Cretans from GEDmatch cluster with both Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Something I notice is that there are some parts of Sicily cluster to Cretans than other Sicilians are -- Messina, Catania, some parts of Palermo.

[Bobby Martnen]

What is your opinion on their whiteness? They are W.O.G. to me (Westernized Oriental Gentlemen) to me. Or Gentiles, lol. :lol:

Not White to me. I don't see Levantine-peaking components as White.